Charm of Misplaced Wrath question

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Charm of Misplaced Wrath has the following hit and effect lines:


Hit: You slide the target up to 3 squares. The target is then dazed until the end of your next turn.


Effect: The target makes a basic attack against a creature of your choice as a free action. The basic attack gains a +2 power bonus to the damage roll.



My question is can I have the effect, the attack, happen before the move, or does it have to happen after the move?  I was trying it out, and found myself often wanting to have a melee creature whack one of it's allies, and then fling them to the edge of the field (bonuses to forced movement), and leave them there daze, effectively screwing their next turn.

Is this a legal use of this power, or must the attack happen after the slide?
The hit happens when you hit. The effect happens after the attack and hit lines are resolved. In other words, no, you have to resolve the hit line first, then the effect line.

However, you do not have to slide the target. You can slide the target "up to 3" squares. Meaning 0, 1, 2, or 3 squares. Once you finish sliding it, it makes an MBA against a target of your choice. 

"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006

Dilige, et quod vis fac


Is this a legal use of this power, or must the attack happen after the slide?



The Hit line comes first, so it resolves first.  For what you want to happen, it would have to have the Effect line above the Hit line.

But!  You can *kind of* get what you want, by sliding the enemy off to the edge oft he battlefield, leaving it Dazed, and then having it hit itself.  It's extremely rare for a creature to have a MBA that it can't target itself with, so just use that.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Hate to re-open an old thread, but I have a question.

If the free 'MBA/RBA' has extra effects like Push 2 or knock prone, does that get applied, or does the creature choose not to use them (as they are usually voluntary choices).

Does the charm effect make use of it and would the wizard have a choice to push 2 or knock prone?
Hate to re-open an old thread, but I have a question.

If the free 'MBA/RBA' has extra effects like Push 2 or knock prone, does that get applied, or does the creature choose not to use them (as they are usually voluntary choices).

Does the charm effect make use of it and would the wizard have a choice to push 2 or knock prone?



Forced movement is always optional, so the creature could choose not to move itself ... however, it's impossible to meet the requirements of pushing (since you can't move away from yourself), so it's only really an issue for sliding.

As far as other status effects, it depends on if the power says 'may knock the target prone' or simply 'knocks the target prone'.  In the former case, there is a choice, so he can opt not to; in the latter (and more common) case, he cannot because it is not optional.  Note that this applies to all powers; unless there's a 'may' or 'can' clause, the effects it induces are not optional.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
It doesn't have the word 'may'.

It is a Hill Giant Rockthrower. Power reads as follows : "and the rock thrower pushes the target 2 squares or knocks it prone".

I would think that the rockthrower has the choice to push or knock prone. If pushing, doesn't it have the choise to push 0, 1 or 2?
It doesn't have the word 'may'.

It is a Hill Giant Rockthrower. Power reads as follows : "and the rock thrower pushes the target 2 squares or knocks it prone".

I would think that the rockthrower has the choice to push or knock prone. If pushing, doesn't it have the choise to push 0, 1 or 2?



He can choose whether to push himself, or knock himself prone.

However, he cannot legally push himself, as each square of a push must move the target further away from the push-er.  This is physically impossible when you are both the push-er and push-ee; you can't ever move away from yourself, obviously.  Therefore, if he chooses the push option, nothing will happen regarding his position.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The wizard had the rockthrower attack another hill giant, hoping to knock it prone, as just he witnessed a prior throw knock their paladin prone.

What the wizard (& player) didn't know, is the rockthrower has the option to push 2 or knock prone.

So, when he hits his ally, he can choose push 2 or knock prone. If choosing to push, if I'm read up on 4e rules, he can elect to push 0, 1 or 2...right?
The wizard had the rockthrower attack another hill giant, hoping to knock it prone, as just he witnessed a prior throw knock their paladin prone.

What the wizard (& player) didn't know, is the rockthrower has the option to push 2 or knock prone.

So, when he hits his ally, he can choose push 2 or knock prone. If choosing to push, if I'm read up on 4e rules, he can elect to push 0, 1 or 2...right?



Ah, thought he had told the Giant to hit himself.  I misunderstood, my bad.

The Giant is the one using the power, so he still gets to control the effects of it, to the extent he is allowed.  This means he can:
Push 0 OR
Push 1 OR
Push 2 OR
Knock Prone
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The wizard had the rockthrower attack another hill giant, hoping to knock it prone, as just he witnessed a prior throw knock their paladin prone.

What the wizard (& player) didn't know, is the rockthrower has the option to push 2 or knock prone.

So, when he hits his ally, he can choose push 2 or knock prone. If choosing to push, if I'm read up on 4e rules, he can elect to push 0, 1 or 2...right?



Ah, thought he had told the Giant to hit himself.  I misunderstood, my bad.

The Giant is the one using the power, so he still gets to control the effects of it, to the extent he is allowed.  This means he can:
Push 0 OR
Push 1 OR
Push 2 OR
Knock Prone



For the record, while Salla is 100% right according to the rules, I would TOTALLY let the player make the choice in an actual game - for the same reason that I encourage a Dominated player to make the meanest choices he could think of[1] with his powers, too.

Basically, it is *way cooler* if the player gets the effect he wants and expects from the power, and it costs nearly nothing in terms of game balance, so do it.


[1]:  Technically the Dominated player does not choose his power.  However, it's WAY MORE FUN when the player gets to be all "it's bowb your buddy day!" and most players know their own tricks way better than the DM does.  So my group has a rule:  When dominated, you pick your own power and targets, and you roll it youself, and if the GM doesn't think you're being evil enough he will overrule and then punish you.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
i love dominating the battlemind in my party and having him brutal barrage his allies, especially when he some damage booster going, possibly the most evil thing that character can do.
like LOW idea, do tend to play that way too.
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