good friend bad Dm

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So a good friend has rejoined the group.  He wants to Dm.  He sucks at Dming.  None in the group wants to tell him,You suck as Dm, we don't want you to Dm.  They all want me to tell him, "You suck, we don't want you to Dm."  Well, he doesn't suck, he just not good.  I usually Dm, I want a break.  I want to play, he can Dm for all I care.  Should I follow the wishes of the group and tell him he can't Dm?  Or should I just to him and I a favor and let him Dm?  If the others don't like it they can tell him.
Why don't you give him some points where he's going wrong?

If the group have a problem with him why don't one of them step up as DM.
Just in case I failed to mention; I am playing D&D 3.5e.
I agree with Langrishe, if he is a reasonable person and doesn't have any serious ego issues I think you can just give him some advice and who knows, maybe he'll do fine.

If, on the other hand, he doesn't follow your advice and after two sessions his DMing is still bad, try and get someone else in charge...
You could also try to go with rotating DMs for a while. That way he can learn by example and doing it at the same time.
My group rotates DMs and just got done with a guy who's really just not a very strong DM. He loves to tell a story, but just has no concept of the importance of the rules, and therefore doesn't know the rules. It was pretty terrible, and it was the second time he's DMed for me.

Now that I've played for him twice, and seen that, after him playing with other DMs, his style remains unchanged and bad, I will not let him DM for me again.

I would say if you don't think he's a bad DM, you shouldn't say anything to him. However, I think you should all discuss it openly, as a group. Bring to your group the fact that you're feeling burned out, and you'd like it if someone else could DM for a while. When your friend who nobody else wants DMing volunteers, it will be on the rest of the group to either speak up, volunteer as well, quit, or get over it.

I'd rather have a DM who's less than stellar but willing to take criticism than a burned out DM. 

"Not only are you wrong, but I even created an Excel spreadsheet to show you how wrong you are." --James Wyatt, May 2006

Dilige, et quod vis fac

I love how so many people are afraid to tell people about their shortcomings, and would rather sit through mediocre/bad play than trying to give advice to make a person better.

Your group should man up and give him pointers on what he does wrong and what he does well. 
Salla, on minions: I typically use them as encounter filler. 'I didn't quite fill out the XP budget, not enough room left for a decent near-level monster ... sprinkle in a few minions'. Kind of like monster styrofoam packing peanuts.
Co-DM with him for a bit. Let him take the reigns plot and stuff wise, but help him with encounter building and rules. Have a PC. Slowly let him take more and more of the Co out of the situation. 

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"                                                  "I'd recommend no one listed to Krusk's opinions about what games to play"

So a good friend has rejoined the group.  He wants to Dm.  He sucks at Dming.  None in the group wants to tell him,You suck as Dm, we don't want you to Dm.  They all want me to tell him, "You suck, we don't want you to Dm."  Well, he doesn't suck, he just not good.  I usually Dm, I want a break.  I want to play, he can Dm for all I care.  Should I follow the wishes of the group and tell him he can't Dm?  Or should I just to him and I a favor and let him Dm?  If the others don't like it they can tell him.



Do your friends have some specific reasons that they don't like him as a DM?  'He just sucks' is terrible feedback in any case; it doesn't give him anything to go on if he wants to improve.  

If you guys are a group of friends, is there someone else in the group who would be willing to give the DM role a shot?  
 
"Do androids dream?" Rick asked himself.
So a good friend has rejoined the group.  He wants to Dm.  He sucks at Dming.  None in the group wants to tell him,You suck as Dm, we don't want you to Dm.  They all want me to tell him, "You suck, we don't want you to Dm."  Well, he doesn't suck, he just not good.  I usually Dm, I want a break.  I want to play, he can Dm for all I care.  Should I follow the wishes of the group and tell him he can't Dm?  Or should I just to him and I a favor and let him Dm?  If the others don't like it they can tell him.

You'd like to play, so your best option is to get someone else to DM instead of you.

Your mate who's not great as a DM, like others have said, he could rotate and do a few adventures. Thus keeping his rather unwelcome DMing to a minimum. When he does DM, I'd be inclined to offer some advice based on the negative feedback to help him improve.

My first DMing effort, back with 2nd Edition AD&D were terrible, but I tried a few more times and got a lot better. I did need the feedback from my players to get better so either this needs to be pointed out to him, e.g "look bud, you might want to give the players a little more leighway during the game, it's tricky because you do need to be flexible and ad-lib but I think that might help your game."
First, get some specifics from the rest of the group - in the "new" guy's absence - about his deficiencies as a DM. See if they agree with what you see.

Also make sure you know where the basis for their opinion lies. If they haven't seen him DM
 for several years, maybe he has learned a few things and would be better now.

Second, if you think it's appropriate, take the "new" guy aside and tell him what you've told us:

Fred, you want to DM the game.
I've been DM for a while, I'd like to take a break and be a player. So I want someone else to DM.
Nobody else in the group wants to DM. That leaves you to take over.
I think you're a so-so DM - not very good, but not very bad either. I'm willing to live with that.
Some of the others in the group think you're a lousy DM, and are reluctant.
Are you willing to work with me and learn to be a better DM? 
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
If its my decision, my friend gets to Dm, and I will support him.  I will take a break, that is going to happen.  If anyone objects to the new Dm, they can tell him.
I second the suggestion to bring up to the entire group that you would like a break, so that they can speak their mind then.

But, is the complication that you are seen as his keeper?
So a good friend has rejoined the group.  He wants to Dm.  He sucks at Dming.  None in the group wants to tell him,You suck as Dm, we don't want you to Dm.  They all want me to tell him, "You suck, we don't want you to Dm."  Well, he doesn't suck, he just not good.  I usually Dm, I want a break.  I want to play, he can Dm for all I care.  Should I follow the wishes of the group and tell him he can't Dm?  Or should I just to him and I a favor and let him Dm?  If the others don't like it they can tell him.



I'd recommend giving him DM "training" so you can get a break, that's what I need right now come to think of it...
I am Blue/Black "The Red Dragon is pulverizing your friends..." -Me "Okay so I'm up here?" -Shrui "Yeah..." -Me "Okay I want to triple backflip down from the ceiling while holding my family's katana and drive it through the Dragon's head." -Shrui "Yeah you'll take a -15 because he's moving his head." -Me "Don't care, I try it anyway." -Shrui (Acrobatics Roll Succeeds) (Attack Roll Succeeds) "How much extra damage do I get for this attack?" -Shrui "It dies, you don't need to do an attack roll." -Me Evil Dungeon Master says, And now young adventurer... you die.
If the others are asking you to do it, then it's probably because you have a deeper connection with him.
But as a player (and as his friend, especially) you need to tell him.
Maybe it sucks having to do it. But he should know that he's a bad DM, why people think that, and be given a chance to do some research on how to improve that before DM-ing again.

Don't let him DM without giving him a heads up first; that's being a true friend at the very least.

Hope this helps.

- NEMIS          
Recently had a similar issue come up.  As much as I wanted to play, I figured with someone other than myself DMing:


1) We'd probably only play once every few weeks

2) We'd be bored


So I felt it was better to DM and have enjoyment than to be a player and be frustrated.  I simply mentioned that it might be easier if I were to take over, to which he agreed.       
We have a bad DM, we just roleplay more and have fun between players! When we do, we have fun and the DM see we enjoy the game!
I'm playing: Abin Gadon, Halfling Bard Winston "Slurphnose", Gnome Sorcerer Pasiphaé, Minotaur Shaman Eglerion, Elf Ellyrian Reaver (Ranger) DMing: Le Trésor du Fluide (Treasure from the Fluid) Un Royaume d'une Grande Valeur (A Kingdom of Great Value) La Légende de Persitaa (Persitaa's Legend) Une Série de Petites Quêtes... (A serie of short quests) Playtesting: Caves of Chaos We're building the greatest adventure ever known to DnD players! Also playing Legend of the Five Rings and Warhammer Fantasy. Sébastien, Beloeil, Qc. I am Neutral Good and 32 years old.
 So I told the group after next week, I wll take a break from Dming.   My friend promptly declared he would Dm and no one objected.  So it is set, everyone had a chance to say there peace.  I'm of the opinion he can only get better as a Dm with coaching and practice, now is his opprotunity.  I do not have a deeper connection to this guy than others, nor am I seen as his keeper, I am the natural leader of the group.  I take the role of leader in the group because of personality.   We play what I want and when I want, because no one put I will make those decisions.   So, again, decisions needed to be made, such as, I need a break, someone else needs to Dm or no game for a while.  I decide to break and my friend decides to step up and Dm, no on else objects.  Again, instead of stepping up, making a decision, it is left to me, so I decide on what I want, get it and the rest follow.
I'm confident things will work out alright.

If they don't, don't blame your friends (you don't seem like the sort that would, anyway), and they certainly have no room to blame you.

But, it sounds like they don't really have that many objections, if they didn't do something to change the arrangement even though they had every opportunity to speak up.

Enjoy your break from DMing, and good luck to your new DM - let us know how things work out
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
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