Lodestone lure & inability to move adjacent

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- this is based on the interpretation that lodestone lure means you must end adjacent.  Since I've not seen a conclusive decision one way or another that defines RAW (each square of movement vs movement destination), this is the ruling the DM laid out and I accepted.

Scenario 1:

  1. Lodestone lure foe

  2. movement that puts battlemind at some distance but still within his movement (don't care about source or repercussions of movement)

  3. Creature gets slowed (don't care about source) 

  4. On creatures turn - he starts his move action and one of the following plays out:

    • (A) His movement would normally let him end adjacent to me, but he only makes it 2 squares

    • (B) since he cannot reach adjacency, he cannot move




Now before you answer (A) or (B), lets change it a bit

Scenario 2:

  1. Lodestone lure foe

  2. movement that puts battlemind at some distance but still within his movement

  3. on creatures turn - he starts a movement that would be valid

  4. Moves one square

  5. Create gets slowed

  6. Attempts to continue move - the following plays out

    • (A) he moves one more square cause the move was a legal action and would normally let him make it 2 squares

    • (B) he stops in his tracks cause "the rest of his movement" is invalid (but the stuff already done is done)

    • (C) the entire move is invalidated and he actually retracts his first square of movement



- this is based on the interpretation that lodestone lure means you must end adjacent.  Since I've not seen a conclusive decision one way or another that defines RAW (each square of movement vs movement destination), this is the ruling the DM laid out and I accepted.

Scenario 1:

  1. Lodestone lure foe

  2. movement that puts battlemind at some distance but still within his movement (don't care about source or repercussions of movement)

  3. Creature gets slowed (don't care about source) 

  4. On creatures turn - he starts his move action and one of the following plays out:

    • (A) His movement would normally let him end adjacent to me, but he only makes it 2 squares

    • (B) since he cannot reach adjacency, he cannot move




Now before you answer (A) or (B), lets change it a bit

Scenario 2:

  1. Lodestone lure foe

  2. movement that puts battlemind at some distance but still within his movement

  3. on creatures turn - he starts a movement that would be valid

  4. Moves one square

  5. Create gets slowed

  6. Attempts to continue move - the following plays out

    • (A) he moves one more square cause the move was a legal action and would normally let him make it 2 squares

    • (B) he stops in his tracks cause "the rest of his movement" is invalid (but the stuff already done is done)

    • (C) the entire move is invalidated and he actually retracts his first square of movement







Is the current compendium  entry

As you raise your weapon, a foe lurches toward you against its will.


At-Will        Augmentable, Psionic, Weapon
Standard Action      Melee 2


Target: One creature


Attack: Constitution vs. Will


Hit: Constitution modifier damage, and you must pull the target 1 square. Until the end of your next turn, the target can move only to squares that are adjacent to you.


Augment 1

Range: Melee 5


Hit: As above, but you must pull the target 4 squares.


Augment 2

Range: Melee 5


Hit: 1[W] + Constitution modifier damage, and you must pull the target 4 squares and knock it prone. Until the end of your next turn, the target can move only to squares that are adjacent to you.


 



It appears that any movement it makes (on a square by square basis) can only be squares that are adjacent otherwise it cannot move. It appears to be a very powerful effect.

It may or may not be OP. Assuming that in playtesting it was concluded to be OP I would have written that effect as  "if the target starts it's turn adjacent, any subsequent movement made during it's turn must be adjacent to you" that way it wouldn't be quite as much of a lockdown power. But as written the target doesn't have many options if more then 2 squares away.
It appears that any movement it makes (on a square by square basis) can only be squares that are adjacent otherwise it cannot move. It appears to be a very powerful effect.

It may or may not be OP. Assuming that in playtesting it was concluded to be OP I would have written that effect as  "if the target starts it's turn adjacent, any subsequent movement made during it's turn must be adjacent to you" that way it wouldn't be quite as much of a lockdown power. But as written the target doesn't have many options if more then 2 squares away.



Lets not obscure what I'm trying to ask here.  that is an entirely different issue, and has not been resolved as far as I've seen as there are 2 different possible interpretations (no conclusion on RAW)
Please answer the question based on the comment at the top. (one of those 2 interpretations)
Movement is on a per-square basis.  You can plan a route, but each step of movement is individually determined, and those individual decisions can be changed based on immediate effects during the movement.  Anyone who disagrees is wrong, and erachima's assessment of your two scenarios is correct.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Suggestion:  "Enemy cannot move further away from you".

Of course, it's still immobilize if you hit, then remove yourself from play.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Remove yourself from play would remove the restriction, as the distance between you and the creature would be undefined, and thus can't increase no matter where the creature goes.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Remove yourself from play would remove the restriction, as the distance between you and the creature would be undefined, and thus can't increase no matter where the creature goes.

 Good point.

So my suggestion is even more fair.  Though it'd still be possible to immobilize with well placed walls.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

It appears that any movement it makes (on a square by square basis) can only be squares that are adjacent otherwise it cannot move. It appears to be a very powerful effect.

It may or may not be OP. Assuming that in playtesting it was concluded to be OP I would have written that effect as  "if the target starts it's turn adjacent, any subsequent movement made during it's turn must be adjacent to you" that way it wouldn't be quite as much of a lockdown power. But as written the target doesn't have many options if more then 2 squares away.



Lets not obscure what I'm trying to ask here.  that is an entirely different issue, and has not been resolved as far as I've seen as there are 2 different possible interpretations (no conclusion on RAW)
Please answer the question based on the comment at the top. (one of those 2 interpretations)



RAW means if the square you are trying to move into is not adjacent then you cannot move into it.
Movement is on a per-square basis.  You can plan a route, but each step of movement is individually determined, and those individual decisions can be changed based on immediate effects during the movement.  Anyone who disagrees is wrong, and erachima's assessment of your two scenarios is correct.



A thread we agree on
Movement is on a per-square basis.  You can plan a route, but each step of movement is individually determined, and those individual decisions can be changed based on immediate effects during the movement.  Anyone who disagrees is wrong, and erachima's assessment of your two scenarios is correct.



Based upon your assertion, with which I agree based upon the RC (Any instance of movement, whether it is done willingly or unwillingly. Whenever a creature, an object, or an effect leaves a square to enter another, it is moving. Shifting, teleporting, and being pushed are all examples of moves; emphasis mine) I would agree with erachima's first assessment but disagree with the second; that is, it doesn't start is movement, get slowed, and stop in its tracks...it's effectively immobilized.

If each square of the creature's movement must be adjacent to the battlemind and the battlemind is two or more squares away, the creature is locked down.

Edit: to be clear, I would conclude that the creature never leaves its starting position in the second example because even that first square is not adjacent to the battlemind.