So you wanted a stealthy leader

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A while ago there was a thread asking for a leader for a stealthy party, and just recently there was this thread observing some interesting wording on the Assassin's Shade Form power, which can be sustained until you make an attack roll.  So I'm musing about a leader tricked out with this.


  • Eladrin (or Shadar-kai) for race, +Dex/+Int, 13 Cha

  • Assassin|Warlord for your base class.

  • Hybrid Talent for Shade Form.

  • Commander's Strike for your at-will.


From level 1 you are perma-insubstantial (so you're at roughly 1.33x standard defender HP).  You run around using CS and lazy powers all day.  It still sucks if you get stunned (or even dazed) though.

Losing an encounter and daily shouldn't hurt as much as it sounds, since lazylords already have some dead levels in those, but having to choose between CS and DtS sucks (you could go Human, I suppose) and I wouldn't be thrilled about losing a Warlord utility either.


  • MC Warlock

  • Novice Power at 10 for Ethereal Sidestep

  • Cursed Shadow for Shadow Walk

  • Some kind of teleport booster


In early paragon you are perma-insubstantial and perma-concealed = perma-hidden, from Shade Form.  But there are issues.  Having to move 3 squares = you can't stay adjacent to the same creature, if it's medium (I think Planestrider boots fix this).  You are hidden, but the enemies know where you are because you became hidden at the end of your teleport (again, I believe Planestrider boots can fix this).

Optionally around here you can take:


  • Evermeet Warlock to be a taxi

  • Feytouched to be a slasher

  • Paragon Hybrid and gain a few non-useless powers plus another Hybrid Talent for Warlord armor proficiencies, which gives you ringmail, which gives you some very nice enchants.


Eventually items and Superior Will can probably patch up your Will defense and saving throws enough that you aren't cripplingly vulnerable to stun.  In late epic a Ring of Free Time helps with the minor action sustain deal.

Ultimately, this build is far from optimal, but it doesn't seem too much worse than a normal lazylord.  Opinions?  Are there any other good feats/items to throw in?
I recall most warlord powers, especially the lazy kind, require you to be seen and heard by your party. That might cause some issues.
Some of them do. CS doesn't. I was assuming that using an attack power like CS broke you out of hiding anyway, and that you would teleport+hide after to become re-hidden.
I like it.
Nice.  Better then the rogue|warlord/assassin i was working on.

But consider a gnome.  They have feyborn stradigen (CA on granted attacks while hidden), have reactive stealth, and an emegency invisibility (in case you got stunned or something).

MC invoker (yes, invoker) to get Adept of Wispers, for immunity to blindsight/tremmorsense.  (Wis has several good interupt powers, so it's not a bad secondary).

Also, band of fellows (with 8 Str and a unproficent whip), should be your goto.  Attack roll, NM

Ninth Legion Student, so you have a good OA (direct the strike instead of Commander's though).

I recall most warlord powers, especially the lazy kind, require you to be seen and heard by your party. That might cause some issues.

I've been looking at it.  Most just require you to see your party.

Also, you only hide from enemies.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Stealth, level 30
Gnome, Warlord/Assassin, Adept of Whispers, Thief of Legend
Hybrid Warlord Option: Hybrid Warlord Will
Hybrid Talent Option: Shade Form
Uncanny Prowess Option: Wisdom
Warlord Leadership Option: Battlefront Leader (Hybrid)
Hybrid Assassin Option: Hybrid Assassin Will
Burglar (+2 to Thievery)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 30, INT 14, WIS 24, CHA 12

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 11, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 10


AC: 37 Fort: 29 Ref: 40 Will: 38
HP: 140 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 35

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +31, Perception +27, Religion +22, Stealth +37, Thievery +32

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +25, Arcana +19, Athletics +15, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +14, Dungeoneering +22, Endurance +16, Heal +22, History +17, Intimidate +18, Nature +22, Streetwise +16

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Gnome Racial Power: Fade Away
Wizard Utility: Ghost Sound
Warlord Feature: Inspiring Word
Warlord Feature: Battlefront Shift
Assassin Feature: Assassin's Shroud
Assassin Feature: Shade Form
Warlord Attack 1: Direct the Strike
Invoker Attack 1: Sun Strike
Warlord Utility 2: Shake It Off
Assassin Attack 3: Cloaking Mist
Assassin Utility 6: Shadow Adept
Warlord Attack 7: Friendly Fire
Stealth Utility 10: Persistent Tail
Warlord Utility 10: Tactical Orders
Adept of Whispers Attack 11: Admonishing Whisper
Adept of Whispers Utility 12: Restorative Word
Warlord Attack 13: Bolstering Insight
Warlord Attack 15: Call to Action
Warlord Utility 16: Help or Hinder
Warlord Attack 19: Victory Surge
Adept of Whispers Attack 20: Whisper of Doom
Assassin Attack 25: Wall of Death
Thief of Legend Utility 26: Impossible Theft
Warlord Attack 27: A Plan Comes Together

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Skill Focus (Stealth)
Level 4: Ninth Legion Student
Level 6: Superior Will
Level 8: Improved Defenses
Level 10: Acolyte of Divine Secrets
Level 11: Feyborn Stratagem
Level 12: Lend Might
Level 14: Fight On
Level 16: Reserve Maneuver
Level 18: Shield Finesse


ITEMS
Heavy Shield x1
Spear
====== End ======

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Hmmm....

Death's Gatekeeper mk2.5 is comming up.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

A Cunning Bard can be pretty good at moving its allies (and enemies, and itself) around, often without consuming anyone's actions. Being force-moved doesn't give the ally a chance to become Hidden, but can move a Hidden ally to a square other than where he was when he became Hidden.

It's possible for a Cunning Bard to downplay Int and be Dex-secondary instead. Good for initiative as well as Stealth. And with the Bard of All Trades feat, the Bard can be sitting there at +5 on trained skills and +4 on untrained skills - so it hardly matters that Stealth isn't a class skill. the Bard can Hide too.

The Cunning Bard is mostly a controller with a smattering of enabling powers, and of course healing. 
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Hmmm....

Death's Gatekeeper mk2.5 is comming up.


Yeah, I was gonna say that Death's Gatekeeper fit the bill...