Pixie Altitude Limit

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Pixie's have an altitude limit of 1.

So does that mean they are 1 square above everyone else, or are they in the same space?

I.e....

2
1  Pixie
0  Normal      

Or

3
2
1  Pixie + Normal     

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

The first option makes most sense to me, but I don't believe this is covered by RAW.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
My interpretation is that if you're standing on the ground, you are at altitude 0.

So, if you're at altitude 1, there is 1 square (5 feet) of empty space under you.
That makes sense to me too (despite living in a country where ground floor is "level 1"), but i'm curious if there's RAW support of it.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

This was discussed when the Pixie altitude limit first came out, and I go back to what I said then.

Someone standing on the ground is at altitude 0.  Someone buried in the ground is below that person, at a -1 altitude.  Someone hovering over the standing person's head is at 1 altitude.

Swap the squares representation for feet, and you have the following:

At an altitude of 5 feet, how far can you fall before you hit the ground?  Answer:  5 feet.
At an altitude of 1 square, how far can you fall before you hit the ground?  Answer:  1 square.

As far as explicit RAW, this is one of the cases where they define something solely by its English usage, and not with an explicit entry.

That said, an altitude limit of 1 is still within melee reach for things, so it won't have any direct impact in combat if you're floating in the ground-level square or one square up. 

It does mean, however, that a Pixie Fighter floating over your head is a very strong deterrent to movement.  Though even that isn't really all that crazy given that the Pixie Fighter can move inside a Medium creature's space, as well.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
We should get mvincent to FAQ this...
We should get mvincent to FAQ this...

Done. The following has been added to the forum FAQ:
"What does a pixie's altitude limit of 1 mean? per RC p.210: "If a creature has a specified Altitude limit, the creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than this limit. For example, a creature that has an Altitude limit of 2 falls at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 2 squares". This means that the pixie can be one square off the ground (i.e. have an empty 'cube' below it) without issue. Discussed here and here."

I think its the second option.

DMG 45 Movement In Three Dimension: Define an arbitrary elevation, preferably the one where most of the encounter takes place, as "ground" level. Creatures are all positioned above or below the action relative to that altitude. Placing a small d6 or d4 is a good way to measure its distance above or below this level. The number on the die show how many squares above or below the baseline.

Also the exemple shows it for Altitude Limit of 2.

RC 210 Altitude Limit: If a creature has a specified Altitude limit, the creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than this limit. For exemple, a creature that has an Altitude limit of 2 falls at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 2 squares.


But this value is still the first square at baseline set as the ground. So if a Pixie end its turn anywhere above 1 square (5 feet) it will Fall. Not that it would matter anyway for anything below 7 squares since it has a Speed of 6  as per the Falling Rules for Flying Creatures (RC 209)

This means that the pixie can be one square off the ground (i.e. have an empty 'cube' below it) without issue. Discussed here and here."


The statement in parenthese is incorrect IMO. An Altitude limit of 1 square means it will Fall at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 1 square (off the ground)

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Right...which means it won't fall if it's in the 'cube' directly above a Medium creature that is standing on the ground.  It's not higher than one square off the ground.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
For the love of all that is holy, I hope that altitude limits are  addressed in the Feywild book.  It seems that the rules, because they don't specify which square is 0, are causing two interpretations that could both be right, depending on whether you count the squares that are occupied by creatures that are walking as "1" or "0".  

Please, PLEASE let this be cleared up in a Rule of Three. 
Salla, on minions: I typically use them as encounter filler. 'I didn't quite fill out the XP budget, not enough room left for a decent near-level monster ... sprinkle in a few minions'. Kind of like monster styrofoam packing peanuts.
Right...which means it won't fall if it's in the 'cube' directly above a Medium creature that is standing on the ground.  It's not higher than one square off the ground.



Yes he is.. If a Pixie is in the square above the square the Human below occupy, he is above an Altitude Limit of 1 square.

What the Rules of Movement in Three Dimension say is that the ground is a base line, not a square . The square right above this baseline...from 0.1 feet to 5 feet is where an Altitude Limit of 1 square can Fly up to and from 5'1 feet to 10 where an Altitude limit of 2 squares can Fly up to.

For exemple, a creature that has an Altitude limit of 2 falls at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 2 squares.

EDIT I found the corresponding Rules in the Rule Compendium

RC 206 Movement in Three Dimensions: Placing a small d6 or d4 next to a miniature or token is a good way to measure its distance above and below ground level. The number of the die shows how many squares the creature is above or below that level.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Right...which means it won't fall if it's in the 'cube' directly above a Medium creature that is standing on the ground.  It's not higher than one square off the ground.



Yes he is.. If a Pixie is in the square above the square the Human below occupy, he is above an Altitude Limit of 1 square.

What the Rules of Movement in Three Dimension say is that the ground is a base line, not a square . The square right above this baseline...from 0.1 feet to 5 feet is where an Altitude Limit of 1 square can Fly up to and from 5'1 feet to 10 where an Altitude limit of 2 squares can Fly up to.

For exemple, a creature that has an Altitude limit of 2 falls at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 2 squares.


No, that's not what the consensus mvincent just posted to the FAQ is.  A pixie's altitude limit is not in the same space as a Medium creature without flight (note that pixies, being tiny, can be in a medium creature's space).

Ground level in a discretized universe cannot be an infinitely thin plane.  You don't hit the ground and take your fall damage as you try to move from the closest-square-above-the-ground to the first-square-inside-the-ground, you take your fall damage when you enter the square that someone standing on the ground occupies.

If you are standing on top of a 20 foot wall, 4 squares high, and step off, you will descend 4 squares.  Your altitude, while standing on the wall, is 4.  In a continuous universe, like ours, you descend the entire 20 feet.

Trying to argue this point ignores the topology of the D&D universe and makes assumptions of how it works based on how our universe works.  It's the same reason there are multiple shortest paths between two squares, and Pythagoras's theorem doesn't work.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
And i said the concensus is based on wrong conclusions. Read Movement in Three Dimension. How it explains it, a Pixie cannot end its turn with a die showing 2 because it would be above its Altitude limit of 1 square. In other words:

If a Pixie has a specified Altitude limit of 1 square, the Pixie falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than 1 square above the ground.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Refer to edit.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Refer to edit.



I tried. Really. You refer to pythagore and universe. I refer to D&D Rules. Wink

The ground is a baseline in reference to Movement in Three Dimension, not a square. 

When a ceiling is 10 feet high (2 squares) it 10 feet high above the ground.  

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

And i said the concensus is based on wrong conclusions. Read Movement in Three Dimension. How it explains it, a Pixie cannot end its turn with a die showing 2 because it would be above its Altitude limit of 1 square.

Right.  And what does a die showing a 1 mean?
DMG 45 Movement In Three Dimension: Define an arbitrary elevation, preferably the one where most of the encounter takes place, as "ground" level. Creatures are all positioned above or below the action relative to that altitude. Placing a small d6 or d4 is a good way to measure its distance above or below this level. The number on the die show how many squares above or below the baseline.

The baseline is 'ground.'  A character standing on the ground would not need a die.  A character directly under his feat would show a '1 below' and a one directly above him would have a die showing a '1' /above/.  Using a die to show 3D altitude relative to ground /only/ works if ground is '0.' 

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The baseline is 'ground.'  A character standing on the ground would not need a die.  A character directly under his feat would show a '1 below' and a one directly above him would have a die showing a '1' /above/.  Using a die to show 3D altitude relative to ground /only/ works if ground is '0.' 




Well what we always done is a creature standing is squares above the PC are shown 2

Right ground is 0. Ground is a baseline, not a square in this reference of what i understand. 

When the Rule say:

RC 210 Altitude Limit: If a creature has a specified Altitude limit, the creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than this limit. For exemple, a creature that has an Altitude limit of 2 falls at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 2 squares.

Is it in flying 2 square higher that the ground or 2 squares higher than the 1st square ? The DMG used to specify the ground.

DMG 48 Altitude Limit: A monster that has an altitude limit can’t fly more than the indicated number of squares off the ground. If it flies higher than this limit, it crashes at the end of its turn even if it drops backbelow the limit.


No one agree with this ? WOW i must be dead wrong then because it all sound correct to me Wink

EDIT This here to me explain clearly

RC 206 Movement In Three Dimension: Define an arbitrary elevation, preferably the one where most of the encounter takes place, as ground level. Creatures are all positioned above or below the action relative to that altitude. Placing a small d6 or d4 is a good way to measure its distance above or below that level. The number on the die show how many squares a creature is above or below that level.

So if creatures are poositioned above this baseline, the ground, it means they would be having die showing 1 technically, because the die is a way to measure its distance above or below this level, in other words, the die measure its distance above the ground.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

The statement in parenthese is incorrect IMO. An Altitude limit of 1 square means it will Fall at the end of its turn if its flying higher than 1 square (off the ground)

If I were to put that in the FAQ, I would have dozens of people disagreeing with it rather than just one. I'd be happy to wager my avatar selection (1 month) with you on it though
A concensus of 3 persons agreeing versus 1 disagreeing with quotes backing up is still considerable. Dont be too fast in discrediting my opinion.  Id say lets see if more people chime in before declaring a concensus. Wink

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Honestly, do not understand why this alt. limit is such an issue.  It's pretty clear their alt. limit is 1 sq.  Thus if they fly above that limit, they fall back down at the end of their turn.  1 sq is one sq above the ground.  Thus a pixie can fly over a normal medium sized creature/character.

I'm with Plaguescarred here, this isn't really an issue.  The only issue I see potentially is whether or not the pixie has a fly speed and what that speed is.  Will it just be a fly speed equal to its speed, or a separate number, or none at all yet have an alt limit of 1 sq.  If they don't have a fly speed, or even if they do, I wonder about the alt. limit in the sense of whether or not you'll be able to increase it or erase it later on.  The only reason I ask this is because there are ways to be able to fly later in the game and normally alt limit isn't an issue or even mentioned.  Like the ED that makes you angelic, at lv30 you gain permanent flight and I don't remember it ever talking about an alt. limit.

I just wonder, because it would suck for a pixie if they gained a flight ability like that later on yet were screwed because of an alt. limit to where it didn't matter that they could fly their speed.  But eh, I'll just wait till the book comes out.   
Honestly, do not understand why this alt. limit is such an issue.  It's pretty clear their alt. limit is 1 sq.  Thus if they fly above that limit, they fall back down at the end of their turn.  1 sq is one sq above the ground.  Thus a pixie can fly over a normal medium sized creature/character.

The problem is what "1 square above the ground" means.

What square does "ground" occupy?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Honestly, do not understand why this alt. limit is such an issue.  It's pretty clear their alt. limit is 1 sq.  Thus if they fly above that limit, they fall back down at the end of their turn.  1 sq is one sq above the ground.  Thus a pixie can fly over a normal medium sized creature/character.

The problem is what "1 square above the ground" means.

What square does "ground" occupy?



0 its a baseline in reference to Movement in Three Dimension, which says that when you define an arbitrary elevation as ground level, Creatures are all positioned above it.

If the ground was in square 1 with creatures, creature would not be above that value. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

A concensus of 3 persons agreeing versus 1 disagreeing

That appears to not include the consensus from the other thread I linked. fwiw: if we followed your interpretation and measured from the top of the creature rather the bottom, we would have issues with say, large creatures with an altitude limit of 1.

1 sq is one sq above the ground.  Thus a pixie can fly over a normal medium sized creature/character.

I'm with Plaguescarred here

These two sentences appear to conflict.


Refer to edit.



I tried. Really. You refer to pythagore and universe. I refer to D&D Rules. 

The ground is a baseline in reference to Movement in Three Dimension, not a square. 

When a ceiling is 10 feet high (2 squares) it 10 feet high above the ground.  



I refer to them to explain why you shouldn't use them as your underlying assumptions.

In a room with a 10' ceiling, the maximum amount of distance you can fall is one square.  That's the definition of an altitude of one.  You can't fall zero squares.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
That appears to not include the consensus from the other thread I linked. fwiw: if we followed your interpretation and measured from the top of the creature rather the bottom, we would have issues with say, large creatures with an altitude limit of 1.



Well its certainly not handled by the Rules, how Size and limit work. In your exemple, a Hiuge creature with a Altitude Limit of 1 would be screwed too. I guess you pick 1 square among your space to determine this occupational limit. 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

That appears to not include the consensus from the other thread I linked. fwiw: if we followed your interpretation and measured from the top of the creature rather the bottom, we would have issues with say, large creatures with an altitude limit of 1.



Well its certainly not handled by the Rules, how Size and limit work. In your exemple, a Hiuge creature with a Altitude Limit of 1 would be screwed too. I guess you pick 1 square among your space to determine this occupational limit. 



Except it's an example of your reasoning.  If altitude is measured by how much empty space exists between you and the ground, then a Huge creature with an altitude limit of 1 is fine.

Again, the D&D universe is discrete.  Arguments based on dividing a square (i.e. how high up the creature is within a 5' cube) automatically fail.  There is no way of knowing where, precisely, a creature is within a square.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
In a room with a 10' ceiling, the maximum amount of distance you can fall is one square.  That's the definition of an altitude of one.  You can't fall zero squares.


When you fall 4 feet, how many squares are you falling ?

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

In a room with a 10' ceiling, the maximum amount of distance you can fall is one square.  That's the definition of an altitude of one.  You can't fall zero squares.


When you fall 4 feet, how many squares are you falling ?



Zero.  Which means you didn't fall, because you never left a square.  The D&D universe is discrete.  Distances are measured in squares, and only in squares.  You cannot subdivide a square.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Except it's an example of your reasoning. 



My reasoning follow the Rules as written:

-Define an arbitrary elevation, preferably the one where most of the encounter takes place, as ground level.

- Creatures are all positioned above or below the action relative to that altitude. 

- Placing a small d6 or d4 is a good way to measure its distance above or below that level. The number on the die show how many squares a creature is above or below that level.


1. Define the ground level
2. Creatures are all positioned above that altitude. 
3. Placing a small d6 or d4 is a good way to measure its distance above or below that level. The number on the die show how many squares a creature is above or below that level.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Zero.  Which means you didn't fall, because you never left a square.  The D&D universe is discrete.  Distances are measured in squares, and only in squares.  You cannot subdivide a square.





RC 209 Falling Damage: You take 1d10 damage for each 10 feet you fall.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Right, and 10 feet is 2 squares.  You cannot take fall damage in a room with a 10' ceiling, because there are only two squares vertically and the maximum distance you can fall is one square. 

discrete.


So, to sum up:  you've been presented with situations that your interpretation simply breaks (Large+ creature with altitude limit 1), explanations of how your interpretation is incompatible with a square-based movement system, and you still won't concede to one that has none of these problems and is actually less complicated?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

1 sq is one sq above the ground.  Thus a pixie can fly over a normal medium sized creature/character.

I'm with Plaguescarred here

These two sentences appear to conflict.





I was about to point that out.

Personally, I believe that Altitude Limit 1 means that they can fly above medium creatures.  But that's because I interpret "Walking on the Ground" to be "Altitude 0," whereas Plaguescarred and a few others are interpreting it as "Altitude 1."

Salla, on minions: I typically use them as encounter filler. 'I didn't quite fill out the XP budget, not enough room left for a decent near-level monster ... sprinkle in a few minions'. Kind of like monster styrofoam packing peanuts.
I guess you pick 1 square among your space to determine this occupational limit. 

What the what? You're being silly. Altitude limit indicates how much a creature can be off the ground. A creature with an altitude limit of 2 can be 2 squares off the ground, regardless of it's size. A pixie can be 1 one square off the ground; of this I am *absolutely* positive.

Being one square off the ground allows you to go over the heads of medium creatures without entering their square.

I guess you pick 1 square among your space to determine this occupational limit. 

What the what? You're being silly. Altitude limit indicates how much a creature can be off the ground. A creature with an altitude limit of 2 can be 2 squares off the ground, regardless of it's size. A pixie can be 1 one square off the ground; of this I am *absolutely* positive.

Being one square off the ground allows you to go over the heads of medium creatures without entering their square.



Yes.  Your altitude is the amount of space that's not your space between you and the ground.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
A pixie can be 1 one square off the ground; of this I am *absolutely* positive.

I'm pretty sure of that too, but I'm curious: how can you be so "*absolutely* positive"?

how can you be so "*absolutely* positive"?

DMG p.48: "A monster that has an altitude limit can’t fly more than the indicated number of squares off the ground."

Although they might've changed some of the rules since then, there is no indication that this bolded part is no longer the intent.
Altitude limit indicates how much a creature can be off the ground.



No Altitude limit indicate you can’t fly more than the indicated number of squares off the ground without Falling upon ending your turn.

 RC 210 Altitude Limit: If a creature has a specified Altitude limit, the creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than this limit. 

DMG 48 Altitude Limit: A monster that has an altitude limit can’t fly more than the indicated number of squares off the ground. If it flies higher than this limit, it crashes at the end of its turn even if it drops backbelow the limit.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

....and.....

1 square means in order to be higher than 1 square off the ground, you need to have 1 square between you and the ground.  Because if you have zero squares between you and the ground, you are in contact with the ground.  You occupy the entire square/cube.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
....and.....

1 square means in order to be higher than 1 square off the ground, you need to have 1 square between you and the ground.  Because if you have zero squares between you and the ground, you are in contact with the ground.  You occupy the entire square/cube.



No you are above the ground level. The ground is a baseline for Three Dimension Rule, not a square.

''Define an arbitrary elevation, preferably the one where most of the encounter takes place, as ground level. ''

''Creatures are all positioned above or below the action relative to that altitude.''

''The number on the die show how many squares a creature is above or below that level.''


It doesn't say define a square, this is the ground. creature are occupying it. It says its arbitrary elevation, Creature are above it by a number of squares. A walking Human is 1 square above the ground level thats the square he occupy. 

EDIT

If a creature has a specified Altitude limit, the creature falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than this limit.

A Pixie with an Altitude limit of 1 falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than 1 square off the ground. 


Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Altitude limit indicate you can’t fly more than the indicated number of squares off the ground without Falling upon ending your turn.

Right, and being "1 square off the ground" seems fairly straightforward to me.

Example: we all know what the writer means when say, 'Infernal Moon Curse' (PHB p.135) says that "the target is held immobilized 5 feet off the ground until the end of your next turn."
Altitude limit indicate you can’t fly more than the indicated number of squares off the ground without Falling upon ending your turn.

Right, and being "1 square off the ground" seems fairly straightforward.



Yes. A Pixie with an Altitude limit of 1 falls at the end of its turn if it is flying higher than 1 square off the ground. If it end its turn and it is more than 1 square higher than the ground, it Falls. Remember that walking Human are 1 square off the ground as per 3D Rule.

''Creatures are all positioned above or below the action relative to that altitude.''

''The number on the die show how many squares a creature is above or below that level.''




Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter