D&D in the News - Neverwinter Becoming Free-To-Play MMO

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D&D in the News
Neverwinter Becoming Free-To-Play MMO

2011 October 6
by Pete Haas

Cryptic's Dungeons and Dragons co-op RPG Neverwinter is changing dramatically under new publisher Perfect World. For starters, it's now a free-to-play title.

Talk about this news here



I is not very surprised.
The Bruce Campbell of D&D.
And like that, any interst I had in the game just went up in smoke.
even if it were nothing more than a 4e version of ddo, i would be happy.
And like that, any interst I had in the game just went up in smoke.

Free isn't good enough for you? You were hoping for more somehow?

To me this means that more players will have access to it, which is exactly what I want.

Ugh, these are the guys that made Forsaken World. I knew that name sounded familiar.

If this game is anything like Forsaken World, I'll pass. You don't get more "generic boring grindfest MMO" then that one.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
Ugh, these are the guys that made Forsaken World. I knew that name sounded familiar.

If this game is anything like Forsaken World, I'll pass. You don't get more "generic boring grindfest MMO" then that one.

Cryptic made Forsaken World?  That's news. 

Cryptic still has the reins on this project, even under new ownership.  Let's give it some time to see how their new owners impact Cryptic's vision (which was pretty darn good, imho).

Celebrate our differences.

Cryptic does City of Heroes don't they? Along with Guild Wars? 

That gives me pretty high hopes for it!!  
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Cryptic does City of Heroes don't they?

Yup. Along with Champions Online and Star Trek Online.

Along with Guild Wars?

Nope.

these are the guys that made Forsaken World.

Nope. Perfect World made that before they acquired Cryptic.

Along with Guild Wars?

Nope.



NC soft published Guildwars - they also published City of Heroes.  That was my confusion
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
Cryptic does City of Heroes don't they?

Yup. Along with Champions Online and Star Trek Online.

Along with Guild Wars?

Nope.

these are the guys that made Forsaken World.

Nope. Perfect World made that before they acquired Cryptic.




Cryptic no longer has anything to do with City of Heroes. Haven't had anything to do with it for years in fact. And moreso the game took a drastic turn for the better once cryptic no longer had control.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."-Douglas Adams
“Free to play” just means “pay for special options”, right? If so, it is a smarter business model. “Micro-payments” encourage the consumer to spend far more money than they otherwise would have.
“Free to play” just means “pay for special options”, right? If so, it is a smarter business model. “Micro-payments” encourage the consumer to spend far more money than they otherwise would have.

Well, yes.  But plenty of f2p games are perfectly viable without spending any money.
Most of them, unfortunately, or also boring shovelware devoid of soul.

If they actually manage to give the game a soul (and one that resembles D&D at that) I might actually check it out. But the other works of Perfect World don't point in that direction, so I'm not getting my hopes up.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
Crptic's games are terrible and I can't believe they are using the same horrendous engine they relied on for Champions Online and Star Trek Online - both of which made me feel ill just from the demos alone.

I will avoid their Neverwinter MMO just as I avoid everything they release.
As free to play I will certainlyl give it a try.... Every MMO has to compete with the elephant in the room.... and many now use FTP as there marketting scheme.
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At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

I would have much preferred a full price, well made single or small group multiplayer RPG along the lines of Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights. I'm with BringerOfStorms on this one, Neverwinter being a F2P MMO has just about killed any interest I have in it.
Well, since its free to play, I'll give it a try. There's no way I would shell out money for an MMO designed by a company whose track record is, as far as I can tell, soley composed of mediocre (at best) games. 

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57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
And like that, any interst I had in the game just went up in smoke.

Free isn't good enough for you? You were hoping for more somehow?


You get what you pay for.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Crptic's games are terrible and I can't believe they are using the same horrendous engine they relied on for Champions Online and Star Trek Online - both of which made me feel ill just from the demos alone.

I will avoid their Neverwinter MMO just as I avoid everything they release.



I do love CoH.... but then again I only began to truly love CoH after cryptic left and NCsoft allowed the CoH team to do things which Cryptic had declared completely out of the question or didn't feel like it was worth the effort for. Don't know about Star Trek Online but I know in champions in the f2p version I've never been able to leave the starting area just due to sheer boredom with the game.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."-Douglas Adams
Yeah, I find this news to be disappointing as well.  A Neverwinter Nights styled game appeals to me far, far more than a bland, generic MMO grindfest, particularly one made by these guys.
Screw Neverwinter Nights. I was hoping for a Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment. You know. An AWESOME FREAKING GAME.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
So, I take it this means we are never going to see a decent 4e computer game, then.  Too bad.
Meh, ya never know.

I was disappointed with Daggerdale, by Atari. But I am having big fun with Heroes of Neverwinter. Turns out, Atari is doing this one too, but this time it turns out great.

HON is a simpler game, intentionally, and stylish. The stories compel too.



The point is, the Neverwinter MMO may well turn out great.
By the way, I appreciate your activity in the forums, MaximumHavoc. I love the way you keep on top of the news.
The free to play aspect doesn't bother me as much as this:

Neverwinter will now be an action MMO, according to IGN. While the game usesD&D's 4th Edition ruleset, it will require quick reflexes and mouse clicking from players.



Oh boy, mouse clicking.  Because a game modeled after a highly tactical turn-based game should really be about button mashing?

much prefer free to play games because I flatly refuse to pay a monthly sevice fee for a game. We've lost track of how much money on Kingdom of Loathing over the past five years but it's at least a couple hundred that we would bever have spent had the game been pay to play; a testament to the fact that it's the only video game besides Final Fantasy Tactics that has managed to keep our attention for more than a year. We play KoL every day and FFT is my primary method of relaxing when my pain gets out of control so I've been playing it almost daily since my surgery in May.


Likewise, we bought the box sets for Dungeon Runners because we enjoyed the game so much. In fact, DR is the closest we've ever come to subscribing to game because it was only $5 a month and we were afraid the NC Soft was going to manage the game to death (which they did). $15 a month just isn't happening. Even if we could afford it, we wouldn't do it because we know KoL would keep us from getting our money's worth out of it.


That said, I still won't be playing this game for two reasons:


Strike 1: "While the game uses D&D's 4th Edition ruleset, it will require quick reflexes and mouse clicking from players."


As Damon_Tor said, what idiot thought that reducing a highly tactical game to a button masher was a good idea? More important to me personally is that my physical limitations mean I that couldn't play it even if I wanted to. I really got into video games right after my accident back in the Fall of '97. For me they serve two functions beyond simple entertainment: keeping my mind active and sharp, and helping me relax and thus ease my pain. Games that don't do that don't get played.


Strike 2: "It utilizes a modified version of the engine from Cryptic's other MMOs, Star Trek Online and Champions Online."


I tried Champions as soon as it went f2p and was sadly disappointed. It was supposed to be the highly-acclaimed Champions trpg brought to virtual life by the team that made City of Heroes so I had been looking forward to trying it out for a long time. It had two major problems that kept me from playing it: 1) my computer which can run Guild Wars at 50-60 fps could barely squeeze out 10 fps; that's absurd. 2) The mouse was required because there was no other way to change direction. That's a problem since it causes me so much pain instead of easing as games are supposed to.


If Neverwinter uses the same engine then, once again, I won't be able to play the game even if I wanted to.

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Meh, ya never know.

I was disappointed with Daggerdale, by Atari. But I am having big fun with Heroes of Neverwinter. Turns out, Atari is doing this one too, but this time it turns out great.

HON is a simpler game, intentionally, and stylish. The stories compel too.



The point is, the Neverwinter MMO may well turn out great.



Yeah, you never know.  Uwe Boll may also crank out a masterpiece too, someday, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I have never seen a 'free to play MMO' that I have wanted to play for more than about 5-ish minutes.

Plus, as Damon said, 'require quick reflexes and mouse clicking' advertises it as just about the opposite of what makes 4e, 4e and definitely NOT what I like in any game, 4e or otherwise.
My initial response is a giant wall of swear words.

I mean, FFS, WTF you. The original plan for Neverwinter was an okay one, you would at least try to capture the multiplayer parts of NWN and package them as a neat whole. Bioware optioned the idea of a toolset with DM features and multiplay functionality but deemed too little interest in the project, but that was back in 3e days back when NWN was primarily supported by the multiplayer and mod making community. It would've been an amazing thing to have and you guys were going to deliver.

Now you've gone and turned the project into another generic MMO piece of trash. You've used the free to play model, congratulations, you have no confidence in the profibility of your product on the mass market. That's understandable, you were unlikely to produce anything of great value anyway. What's worse is that you've made the game focus on quick responses and clicks?

Do you even understand the market and the audience? Who the hell are you going to sell this to? "Come play Neverwinter, it's nothing like the system it's built on but pretty much the same as all the other generic fantasy MMOs out there!" and yes, you're not "selling" it to anyone really, you're marketing it and hoping they'll bother playing? Why? Why would anyone even bother with this, it offers nothing of what it should be offering and baring a miracle won't offer anything over what other games already do.

You could've made it like a more serious Dofus/Wakfu or Atlantica Online, other free to play MMOs which actually have turn based combat, but no, you made it an action MMO and give me no faith for anything you produce, ever.


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Think you are complaining on literally in the wrong place to the wrong people. I highly doubt that anyone higher up who reads these forums or posts occasionaly A) Had anything to do with the game or B) had anything to do with the decision to sell the game rights. So maybe take that righteous anger over to Cryptic or Atari or Perfect World?
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."-Douglas Adams
The free to play aspect doesn't bother me as much as this:

Neverwinter will now be an action MMO, according to IGN. While the game usesD&D's 4th Edition ruleset, it will require quick reflexes and mouse clicking from players.



Oh boy, mouse clicking.  Because a game modeled after a highly tactical turn-based game should really be about button mashing?



I agree that this turned me off far more than free to play. "Mouse clicking" and quick reflexes in an online game mean huge frustration when the internet lags. This change alone means I probably won't play this game. That's a shame because I had high hopes.

I'm starting to think 4e D&D is cursed when it comes to officially licensed technology.
Mouse clicking and quick reflexes can certainly make for a good game... as long as it's tactical mouse clicking and not repetetive mouse clicking. Unfortuantely 99% of MMOs favor the last one, so I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
By the way, I appreciate your activity in the forums, MaximumHavoc. I love the way you keep on top of the news.


thank you very much
My initial response is a giant wall of swear words.

I mean, FFS, WTF you. The original plan for Neverwinter was an okay one, you would at least try to capture the multiplayer parts of NWN and package them as a neat whole. Bioware optioned the idea of a toolset with DM features and multiplay functionality but deemed too little interest in the project, but that was back in 3e days back when NWN was primarily supported by the multiplayer and mod making community. It would've been an amazing thing to have and you guys were going to deliver.

Now you've gone and turned the project into another generic MMO piece of trash. You've used the free to play model, congratulations, you have no confidence in the profibility of your product on the mass market. That's understandable, you were unlikely to produce anything of great value anyway. What's worse is that you've made the game focus on quick responses and clicks?

Do you even understand the market and the audience? Who the hell are you going to sell this to? "Come play Neverwinter, it's nothing like the system it's built on but pretty much the same as all the other generic fantasy MMOs out there!" and yes, you're not "selling" it to anyone really, you're marketing it and hoping they'll bother playing? Why? Why would anyone even bother with this, it offers nothing of what it should be offering and baring a miracle won't offer anything over what other games already do.

You could've made it like a more serious Dofus/Wakfu or Atlantica Online, other free to play MMOs which actually have turn based combat, but no, you made it an action MMO and give me no faith for anything you produce, ever.



That's very true. D&D is not even trying to compete in the electronic realm. They have a HUGE amount of source material. Imagine if they were actually trying to give Blizzard a run for their money. I don't think they could because they lack ambition.

Now imagine if they actually made an old school game that implemented the proper rule set. At least that is a niche they could own instead of getting trampled with a half hearted attempt in the MMO world. 

Sadly classic CRPG's are dead.



That's what they said about classic adventure games a decade ago, and they still seem to be going pretty strong to me.

More people need to realize that there are computer games being developed and released outside of the "mainstream" commercial market, and in fact these games are often better than the ones that get hyped in the magazines and the major websites.
better than the ones that get hyped in the magazines and the major websites.



Better as in appealing to more people? Better as in making more money for the folks designing them? or ummm better from an elitist outsider point of view.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

F2P seems silly. Very, very silly. Most F2P games now offset their initial development costs by releasing in stores and then switching, so the game had already paid for its design. If it's pure F2P no one will be buying copies of the game and it's hard to get the equivalent of a $60 purchase price from microtransactions. 

I was looking forward to this game only as a new game to run through a story with along with a friend, and possibly make my own content in, so we could play through the best of fan content. However, it sounds like it's going to be just like every other Cryptic game and shallow action with no real story or variety. Kill endless waves of minions.
CoH was bad for the Diablo playstyle and CO was worse (there were Kill 50 ____ quests very early in the game. 50!)

I remember when City of Heroes unleashed its story creation system, which was okay. They sold NW on having something simmilar in the initial pitches but we haven't heard anything about that since, so I imagine that was removed as "too hard" or will be tied into the microtransactions like the Facebook NW game where you have a teeny-tiny amount of monsters and need to unlock (typicaly through real money) to get an adequate number.

We've crossed the threshhold from "I'll probably ignore it unless the reviews are good" to "it's dead to me." 

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F2P seems silly. Very, very silly. Most F2P games now offset their initial development costs by releasing in stores and then switching, so the game had already paid for its design. If it's pure F2P no one will be buying copies of the game and it's hard to get the equivalent of a $60 purchase price from microtransactions.  


Had an essay on this one, but here http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.games.com/media/2011/08/penny-arcade-free-games.jpg


For what its worth, now that its free to play I might consider playing. At a monthly fee there was no chance.

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I find that my taste in games usually goes somethig like this (from "most liked" to "least") in the last few years.

1. Free to Play (but formerly full price).
2. Flash Games / Downloadable Games (low prices) / Older or Discounted "Full" Games.
3. Paid "Full" Games.
4. Free to Play (from the start).
5. Pay-per-Month/Subscription Games.
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The free to play aspect doesn't bother me as much as this:

Neverwinter will now be an action MMO, according to IGN. While the game usesD&D's 4th Edition ruleset, it will require quick reflexes and mouse clicking from players.



Oh boy, mouse clicking.  Because a game modeled after a highly tactical turn-based game should really be about button mashing?



Well, I'm not sure how any game played on a computer isn't going to involve some form of clicking...
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