Forum Reorganization--Preliminary Outline

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Right, but the confusion present in multi-edition worlds easily outweighs the small possibility that there's more than one King Kaius, Zagyg, Agis of Asticles, Elminster, Strahd, Lady of Pain or similar.


That was one example.  What if I want to look up weapon breakage?  The discussion woul dbe very different between Dark Sun and Planescape.  What about planar travel?  Dragonlance and Spelljammer would result in very different results.

And the fact that these front pages only go back a year doesn't mean anything.  These forums are over four years old, and we should anticipate that they will eventually be over a decade old. 

And what confusion is present in multi-edition worlds?!  The 3e and 4e Eberron forums are already merged.  As are 4e and 2e Dark Sun.  We've never had forums that divie a world by edition.  Ever. 

The issue is what is gained by lumping Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Birthright, Greyhawk, Mystara, and Planescape together?  Eliminating five forums that would only appear at the bottom of the list anyway?  There is no benefit and there is a demonstrable drawback, in that when this has happened before there were many complaints and rancor.

If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.


Are you seriousy proposing we split the Eberron forums into Eberron 3e and Eberron 4e because of confusion?  Why hasn't anybody complained of this problem in the three years the Eberron forums have been combined?  Shoule we have seven Gamma World forums, one for each version?
The only suggested changes I have at this time are:


  • Change: "Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)"

    • to: "Vintage Rules Discussion"

    • It says everything the explanatory note says without needing an explanatory note.



  • Move: D&D General

    • To: the bottom of that section

    • To minimize the amount of accidental cross traffic.




I prefer the word "Legacy" over "Vintage" but that's just me. 


Other than that little thing, I like the layout. 

Celebrate our differences.

If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.


Are you seriousy proposing we split the Eberron forums into Eberron 3e and Eberron 4e because of confusion?  Why hasn't anybody complained of this problem in the three years the Eberron forums have been combined?  Shoule we have seven Gamma World forums, one for each version?

Agreed.  If people are confused, a simple "4E" or "3E" prefix in the title eliminates all confusion.  No need to have separate forums for each edition.  The object is to condense the useless bloat.

Celebrate our differences.

What's A DM To Do and What's A Player To Do aren't 4E exclusive concepts. Game edition is peripheral. If player has his character steal from the party and someone wants advice on what to do about it, it doesn't matter if the game is 4E or 3E. If a DM is looking for help on how to mesh combat with roleplaying sessions, edition is also irrelevant.

These forums should remain separate from 4E exclusitivy.
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Of the two approaches to hobby games today, one is best defined as the realism-simulation school and the other as the game school. AD&D is assuredly an adherent of the latter school. It does not stress any realism (in the author's opinon an absurd effort at best considering the topic!). It does little to attempt to simulate anything either. (AD&D) is first and foremost a game for the fun and enjoyment of those who seek the use of imagination and creativity.... In all cases, however, the reader should understand that AD&D is designed to be an amusing and diverting pastime, something which an fill a few hours or consume endless days, as the participants desire, but in no case something to be taken too seriously. For fun, excitement and captivating fantasy, AD&D is unsurpassed.As a realistic simulation of things from the realm of make-believe or even as a reflection of midieval or ancient warfare or culture or society, it can be deemed only a dismal failure. Readers who seek the later must search elsewhere. - Gary Gygax. 1e DMG.
* 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)
* 4E Character Optimization

I have a problem with these two.  Mechanics and Optimization may not seem distinct enough from eachother.  Also, Roles are a /very/ important concept in 4e, and having a place to discuss them is a good idea.  Instead of 'character mechanics' maybe call it '4e Character Roles & Resources.'  That makes it clearly different from Optimization, and could still encompass the same topics.  In any case, a player wanting to discuss, understand or choose a Role should have a clear place to go.

 

 

Oops, looks like this request tried to create an infinite loop. We do not allow such things here. We are a professional website!

That was one example.  What if I want to look up weapon breakage?  The discussion woul dbe very different between Dark Sun and Planescape.  What about planar travel?  Dragonlance and Spelljammer would result in very different results.

What about it.  There aren't actually a lot of questions about it flying around.  And the volume remains the ultimate measure of its importance; there's already a board for "other worlds", this just means it has more worlds in it.
And what confusion is present in multi-edition worlds?!  The 3e and 4e Eberron forums are already merged.  As are 4e and 2e Dark Sun.  We've never had forums that divie a world by edition.  Ever.

If anyone thinks they might have trouble telling apart the threads about one world and a different one, why don't they have trouble telling apart different editions of the same world?  The answer to that tells you a lot about the issue we're discussing.
The issue is what is gained by lumping Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Birthright, Greyhawk, Mystara, and Planescape together?  Eliminating five forums that would only appear at the bottom of the list anyway?  There is no benefit and there is a demonstrable drawback, in that when this has happened before there were many complaints and rancor.

You mean complaints and rancor from all the people not producing any particularly large volume of activity with regard to any of those worlds?  The gain is the reduction in the number of boards; if we didn't want to do that, this wouldn't be about which boards to merge, but which boards to put at the bottom of the list.
If the edition is unclear, you're only making resolving those issues harder.

Are you seriousy proposing we split the Eberron forums into Eberron 3e and Eberron 4e because of confusion?  Why hasn't anybody complained of this problem in the three years the Eberron forums have been combined?  Shoule we have seven Gamma World forums, one for each version?

Once a given edition of a given world loses traffic volume, it joins the general board for vintage worlds.  A newer edition of that world gets its own board and the cycle continues.

It means that as long as a given edition of that world remains active, it retains an independent board.  Once it loses activity, it combines with the other worlds that have lost activity.  We may have worlds that have been reborn in a new edition, but we don't have examples where an earlier edition of a world returns from the dead (in terms of activity).

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
We're going in circles.  I'm not going to convince you.  You've certainly not convinced me.  I think we'll just have to let Steve and his crew decide if you've made the case for eliminating the Vintage World forums.
We're going in circles.  I'm not going to convince you.  You've certainly not convinced me.  I think we'll just have to let Steve and his crew decide if you've made the case for eliminating the Vintage World forums.

It's not going in circles if we continually address things in different ways, nor is it about "eliminating" the vintage worlds forms; it's about whether or not it takes the form of one board or many.

The boards are communities, not warehouses.  Without active discussion they're nothing.  A wasteland area of dead, empty boards related to past worlds is a bad idea.  Put them together and you at least have an area where people talk collectively about those past worlds, even if they see a few things that aren't exactly what they came to find.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I would very much like the forums to at least keep striker/controller/defender/leader/other(MCing, epic) as seperate 4e forums.  When creating a new character I can EASILY find what I want.  There is no need for me to hunt back 15 pages if I only get on every few dayss.  Sure we could ask people to use [role tags] but if we are going to do that, why not just keep them seperated.

This could also be a great way to track interest or what needs new articles.  Nothing new in the leader section for a few days?  Uhm, anything new been posted in Dragon.  People didnt seem to be playing Artificer.  A nice article can out and I have read lots of examples.  People were complaining about Vampires.  I am waiting for the hybrid article to be placed in the CB.

Just please leave the easy, sortable, focused forums alone.
No mature section?

There hasn't been a "Mature Board" for quite some time now. Why would they bring it back?
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
We won't be deleting any threads, AFAIK. We should be able to combine forums without losing anything. The last thing we want is a reprise of the d20 fiasco from a few years ago.  

Steve




+1 ... and PLEASE !!

5E mini- SRD available now in HTML here:  http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop/players-basic-rules

 

Don't befront me none. 
I'd like to know how the House Rules and Homebrew forum would be handled - most of the threads I have personal interest in are there.
astralArchivist.com - 4e D&D house rules, homebrew, and story hours - now featuring ENWorld's Zeitgeist adventure path! Will Thibault is a winged, feathered serpent rarely found anywhere except in warm, jungle-like regions or flying through the ether. Due to his intelligence and powers he is regarded with awe by the inhabitants of his homelands and is considered to be divine.
























At the moment we have:

D&D Previous Editions

Classes & Class Features

Spells, Invocations, and Magic Items
Monsters and Races
Previous Editions General
Adventures, Campaigns, and Encounters
Equipment, Skills, and Feats
Psionics

Instead of turning these all into


  • D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)     

    • Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)




given the small but steady community that still frequents the current "D&D Previous Editions" sub-forums
I suggest renaming Previous Editions General into "Vintage General Discussion", and simply moving all the rest as sub-forums of this one.

Ex:




Steve has already said they don't want to make any subforums.  It doesn't reduce the length of the forum list. 
I generally like it, but I might suggest this variation:



  • D&D RPG - Looking to Play?     

    • Organized Play

    • Living Forgotten Realms

    • RPG Gamer Classifieds

    • Play-by-Post (including the Virtual Table)

    • Core Coliseum



  • D&D RPG - Community     

    • 4E General Discussion (combines Astrid's Parlor)

    • 4E Rules Q&A

    • 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)

    • 4E Character Optimization

    • Character Development [moved slightly]

    • What's a Player to Do? [moved slightly]

    • What's a DM to Do? (combines Races and Monsters and Combat, Traps, Terrain, and Tactics)

    • Vintage - General Rules Discussion [moved, renamed]

    • Off-Topic Tavern



  • D&D RPG - Campaigns     


    • 4E Core World:  Nentir Vale

    • Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)

    • Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)

    • Dark Sun

    • Gamma World



    • Homebrew Campaigns & Adventures (Essentially, Homebrew + Campaign & Adventure Workshop)

    • Vintage - Dragonlance [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - Greyhawk [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - Mystara [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - Planescape [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - Ravenloft [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - Spelljammer [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - d20 [moved, renamed]

    • Vintage - Other RPGs (or perhaps "Vintage - Other Settings"? Merge Birthright and Oriental Adventures here?) [moved, renamed]



  • D&D Board and Miniatures Games

    • Board Game - Conquest of Nerath [new]

    • Board Games - D&D Adventure System (or alternate name:  "Board Games - Ashardalon/Ravenloft/Drizzt") [new]

    • D&D Miniatures, Skirmish game [moved]



  • D&D Products

    • Reviews and Projections (enfolds Future Releases)

    • Errata (combines all errata forums)

    • Dragon and Dungeon online (combines Dragon/Dungeon General and Dragon/Dungeon Article Discussion)

    • DDi Online Tools (combines DDi Announcements, General, Character Builder, Monster Builder, Technical Discussion, and Digital D&D)

    • D&D HQ - Wizards Community Business [moved, renamed]

    • D&D HQ - GSL [moved, renamed]





My suggested changes in bold. They eliminate two headers, add a "board & miniatures games" header, and rename and move a couple forums. 

Conquest of Nerath seems to really be a completely different animal from the three "Adventure System" boardgames, from what I've seen, hence the suggested seperate forum.

The Wizards Community business forum and GSL forum seem to be more at home under the D&D products banner.

I think the Vintage Campaign Settings seem more at home near the Homebrew Campaign Settings forum under the general "Campaigns" banner, where they now sport "Vintage" as part of their forum titles.  Vintage rules have been moved to the D&D Community header, and are now just a step above the D&D Community "Off Topic" forum (I'm a vintage D&D fan, and I can laugh a bit about that.)  Would some of the Vintage settings with few discussions (e.g., Birthright, Oriental Adventures) be best retired into the general vintage setting folder?

The ones that could use the most reduction are the Errata forums - a single Errata forum with a sticky thread for each product seems like it would really relieve a great deal of the forum bloat.

The three "Adventure System" boardgames, Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, and Legend of Drizzt could really easily be wrapped up into one forum:  the rules for all three can be covered by the same errata and Q&A, and most people who own one will be combining it with one or more of the others.  I think the combined Adventure System boardgames would be right at home next door to the forum for Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures.  However, Conquest of Nerath seems to be a completely different animal, and I think it should ideally keep its own forum, separate from the other three boardgames.

I like combining the Eberron and Forgotten Realms sub-forums into one forum for each campaign world.  Not so sure about shuffling the other settings off to the Vintage Ghetto, though - keep them under Campaigns, and change the names of each of the vintage forums so they are easier to spot ("Vintage - Planescape", for example).  I think these would be right at home nearby the Homebrow Campaign Setting forum.  I didn't spot a Ravenloft campaign setting forum in the list... was it left out accidentally?

By all means, funnel all the D&D Vintage rules discussions into a single Vintage Rules Ghetto, under the D&D Community header.
[spoiler New DM Tips]
  • Trying to solve out-of-game problems (like cheating, bad attitudes, or poor sportsmanship) with in-game solutions will almost always result in failure, and will probably make matters worse.
  • Gun Safety Rule #5: Never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. (Never introduce a character, PC, NPC, Villain, or fate of the world into even the possibility of a deadly combat or other dangerous situation, unless you are prepared to destroy it instantly and completely forever.)
  • Know your group's character sheets, and check them over carefully. You don't want surprises, but, more importantly, they are a gold mine of ideas!
  • "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's a problem if the players aren't having fun and it interferes with a DM's ability to run the game effectively; if it's not a problem, 'fixing' at best does little to help, and at worst causes problems that didn't exist before.
  • "Hulk Smash" characters are a bad match for open-ended exploration in crowds of civilians; get them out of civilization where they can break things and kill monsters in peace.
  • Success is not necessarily the same thing as killing an opponent. Failure is not necessarily the same thing as dying.
  • Failure is always an option. And it's a fine option, too, as long as failure is interesting, entertaining, and fun!
[/spoiler] The New DM's Group Horror in RPGs "This is exactly what the Leprechauns want you to believe!" - Merb101 "Broken or not, unbalanced or not, if something seems to be preventing the game from being enjoyable, something has to give: either that thing, or other aspects of the game, or your idea of what's enjoyable." - Centauri
This reminds me of an old joke" When I was young I prayed to God for help, When I got older I prayed he'd leave me alone."

I will immediately report any Phishers or Lonely Hearts Scam Artists.

What's the difference between "4E Character Mechanics" and "4e Character Optimization" intended to be?


Character mechanics is a discussion of mechanics.  Optimization is a discussion of how to optimize those mechanics.

For instance...
In 4e Rules Q&A, someone might want to know how a warlock's curse interacts with the astral ascendant paragon path.
In 4e Character Mechanics someone might want to discuss a fun (but not optimized) combination of powers for a warlock.
In 4e Character Development someone might need help crafting a back story for their warlock.
In 4e Character Optimization someone might produce a warlock with a 188 DPR.


  • D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)

    • d20

    • Other RPGs






Where does d20 Modern go? I assume either D&D Vintage d20 or Other RPGs. Effectively I think that means you will probably go somewhere else. Finding d20 Modern discussions in such broad groups seems unlikely to produce much.

Identical Games

D&D Published World foums at The Piazza (Dark Sun, Mystara, Spelljammer, Planescape, and more); Core Coliseum; D&D Material including my Master/Expert DM Competition entries



  • D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)

    • d20

    • Other RPGs






Where does d20 Modern go? I assume either D&D Vintage d20 or Other RPGs. Effectively I think that means you will probably go somewhere else. Finding d20 Modern discussions in such broad groups seems unlikely to produce much.



I sitll sday that to advoid the past that the d20 section jsut be left alone

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
The perfect place to talk about prostitution in DnD, drug use, etc.

Both of those subjects are okay for D&D General or one of the other boards (depending on whether it is rules, character developmnent, DM questions, or Homebrewing). As long as the conversation stays PG-13, the thread can stay.

If a "not-kept-PG-13" area is needed by some folks, then I would suggest creating a private Group and invite the folks who tend to enjoy such conversations to join it.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.

It's time to look at reorganizing the forums.


Back in April, Wrecan opened up a thread to kick around different organizational ideas. That thread generated a host of good ideas. We took those, melded them with our own, and churned out what you see below.


This is not a final outline—it's a starting point for you to offer more feedback. We want to combine and streamline wherever possible, with the aim of making it easier to find the type of conversation you want. With that as a guiding principle, we've pared down to this outline. I'd like to get it even smaller, but we don't want to be so vicious that no one recognizes the place.


A few explanatory notes and questions we'd really like feedback on:


What's a Player to Do? is a prime candidate for folding into 4E General Discussion. It's kept separate here because WaPtD is fairly busy, and we don't want to overload 4E General. That doesn't alter the fact that those two forums have a lot of overlap.


Astrid's Parlor is folded into 4E General. AP was strong for a while, but its traffic has fallen and we feel its audience would be best served by joining the main forum.


There was discussion of combining the D&D and M:tG off-topic areas into a single forum outside the brand categories; they're off-topic, after all. For now, though, we've kept the OTT as-is.


We considered combining all of the D&D Previous Editions forums into a single Vintage forum, since some of them don't get much use, but decided instead to separate by worlds.



  • Looking to Play D&D?

    • Organized Play

    • Living Forgotten Realms

    • RPG Gamer Classifieds

    • Play-by-Post (including the Virtual Table)

    • Core Coliseum



  • D&D Community

    • 4E General Discussion (combines Astrid's Parlor)

    • 4E Rules Q&A

    • What's a Player to Do?

    • Character Development

    • 4E Character Mechanics (combines Strikers, Controllers, Defenders, Leaders, Multiclassing and Rituals, Equipment & Magic Items)

    • 4E Character Optimization

    • What's a DM to Do? (combines Races and Monsters and Combat, Traps, Terrain, and Tactics)

    • Off-Topic Tavern



  • Campaigns

    • Homebrew Campaigns

    • 4E Core World

    • Forgotten Realms (combines FR General, Running the Realms, and Realmslore)

    • Eberron (combines Eberron Lore and Running Eberron)

    • Dark Sun

    • Gamma World



  • D&D Products

    • Reviews and Projections (enfolds Future Releases)

    • Errata (combines all errata forums)

    • Dragon and Dungeon online (combines Dragon/Dungeon General and Dragon/Dungeon Article Discussion)

    • Online Tools (combines DDi Announcements, DDi General, Character Builder, Monster Builder, Technical Discussion, and Digital D&D)

    • Board Games (combines Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath)

    • D&D Miniatures, Skirmish game



  • D&D HQ

    • Community Business

    • GSL



  • D&D Vintage (reorganizes conversations by world rather than by rules chapter)

    • Vintage General Discussion (for all rules discussions)

    • Birthright

    • Dragonlance

    • Greyhawk

    • Mystara

    • Planescape

    • Spelljammer

    • d20

    • Other RPGs




Steve

Putting 4 board games - Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, and Conquest of Nerath - in to a single forum is a bad idea.  What happens when Waterdeep is released?

We have plenty of rules questions and people trying to post in those areas - if they can find them.  I like the idea of a "Board Games" header but is it out of the question to continue to give each forum its own space?

 

Alan Patrick

Associate Community Manager, D&D Adventurers League

http://dndadventurersleague.org




  • I assume the "Looking to Play D&D" forums will actually be links to those areas?  Or are we creating new forums to be the repository and directory to other areas?




I'll echo this question - the Core Coliseum (and most/all of the other PbP groups in my sig) could benefit greatly from having a spot in the forums again - but I definitely don't want to move from being a group (we lost a lot of people from all of the forum reorgs, reconstructions and moves - I don't want to move again and lose what small community I have).



I'll just bump my question since I haven't seen a reply to it.

Also - what is to happen to all of the old material in the old CoCo forum? (I'd love to see it moved into the Group's forum, but if it needs to go away, I guess I'll just save as much as I can)
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Check out the other PbP games around:
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Coalition War GameParanoia ParadiseMagic Puzzles, Fun, & Games!
My List of characters for the CoCo and other ventures
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Peronally, I think that a mature section of the forums is a bad idea. If people want to discuss topics that may nudge consistently up against the CoC, then there are two options.

1 - Do it on a site that is not the WotC site; or
2 - Start a group, and be very selective over whom you invite.

History has shown (with the mature section of the forums that existed on the previous forums) that such a forum will result in an amount of reports to ORCS that is wildly disproportionate as compared to the size of the forum. I have no doubt in my mind that should a mature forum be created, the same thing will result.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
We won't be deleting any threads, AFAIK. We should be able to combine forums without losing anything. The last thing we want is a reprise of the d20 fiasco from a few years ago.  

More responses will be forthcoming when I have a bit more time.

Steve



Having said that, I'm looking forward to the fiasco. 
The perfect place to talk about prostitution in DnD, drug use, etc.

Both of those subjects are okay for D&D General or one of the other boards (depending on whether it is rules, character developmnent, DM questions, or Homebrewing). As long as the conversation stays PG-13, the thread can stay.


:ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:

You say that like you think it's true.  That's so cute!

On a more serious note: Previous Editions CharOps should stay separate.  The questions in that forum are far more than Rules questions.  "What's the best way to do X?" is a far different beast than "Can I do X?" or even "How can I do X?" as wrecan so thoughtfully pointed out in post #62.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
You say that like you think it's true.  That's so cute!

It is true.

That the Boards population as a whole is collectively incapable of keeping such a conversation at or under PG-13 does not invalidate the statement. The we need a "special place" for those who cannot maintain a level of maturity in such discussions is the very reason we most certainly don't need a special place at all.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
We have no intention of creating a place where the code of conduct doesn't apply. As Seeker95 stated, a private group is the solution.

Steve 

If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.

There are enough places where we can operate within different types of conduct. I like the idea of this place, being the official place and somewhat representative of the brand/company, having a stricter code of conduct. For instance, when my kids get old enough to want to read forums about the game, I would like for the entirety of these forums to be appropriate for them.

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

You say that like you think it's true.  That's so cute!

It is true.

No.  It's not.
I've been a part of two or three threads that were deleted without going much past PG, let alone past PG-13 that were deleted solely because they were about prostitution/assassination/other criminal activities within the context of a D&D game.  Did they have the potential to make it past PG-13?
Certainly.  But they hadn't, and hadn't even come close.

Now, all that said, I agree that we don't need, and shouldn't have, a "mature content" section.  But don't say that we don't need it because of something that's completely false.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Another suggestion:

"GSL" should be renamed "GSL and Third-Party Publishers".  People may not know what "GSL" stands for, but people can generally figure out what a third-party publisher is, and the GSL is pretty much made only for them.
I've been a part of two or three threads that were deleted without going much past PG

Having two or three examples as you have described is a frustrating experience, to be sure, but it is not a track record by any means.

I do not have a horse in this race, and do not need to use hyperbole or corner case experiences to support my statement that these threads *can* exist in D&D General *if* the entirety of the Board population could manage to maintain the "maturity" that is necessary to keep them open. (I am not, however, claiming that the entirety of the Board population *can* do that.)



Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
It looks like I am not the only one who finds "Character Mechanics" a bit too vague. 

Maybe "Character Roles" or "Character Roles and Mechanics"
Definitelly not "Character Roles" as that would seem to exclude things like feats, backgrounds, and skills.
What might be most helpful right now would be a revised first post that could provide for a "our current proposal" such that people could continue to discuss but in a more productive manner.

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

Astrid's Parlor is folded into 4E General. AP was strong for a while, but its traffic has fallen and we feel its audience would be best served by joining the main forum.


Is there any chance we could get an explanation of this position? I ask only because it seems to me that one of the primary motivations for separating Astrid's in the first place was that many women and like-minded D&D enthusiasts thought that gender issues threads tended to get drowned out when put in the general forum. Would the reorganization also include any change in the "intensity" of thread moderation, so that Astrid's-type threads won't get bogged down?

For instance, let's say a thread is started in General on the topic of ideas to get more women involved in D&D. It very specifically states in the original post that statements to the effect of "what about the men," "that's discrimination," and "there are already enough women in D&D," etc., are off-topic. These types of threads tend to attract a lot of attention and a lot of those kinds of posts, so would the moderators we willing to "prune" the thread regularly to keep it on-topic, and not just close it?
I took a look and Astrid's seems reasonably active and useful as a separate forum. I suspect that keeping AP separate tends to ensure that the audience is a bit more mature for the discussion at hand. Mixing those topics into 4E General could result in a lot of insensitive posts and do a disservice to the community.

I suspect it could also be useful to promote AP a bit more. I didn't really know about it until know (though I see I've followed several of the threads after seeing them discussed by friends).

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

Astrid's has an eight-month turn-around on threads.  It's one of the least active forums here, beaten only by Previous Editions Psionics and d20 CharDev forums (both of which are slated to merge into other forums) and the various Vintage Worlds forums. 

To the extent there is a need for this forum, that need is infrequent.  I'm certain that Astrid's would be a public group if it hadn't been thought up before the Groups were implemented.  That's what the folks who do frequent Astrid's should do -- make an Astrid's Parlor Group.  I'm sure Steve would put it on the list of Featured Groups.
I used to be a regular poster in Astrid's ... until it died.  It's dead.  Hardly anyone posts and recent attempts at rekindling conversation have largely failed.  I think it's over.  As far as starting a group goes, there is one and I am a member.  It was originally public but heavy trolling during Astrid's heyday forced the owner to make it private.  Making it public again could be an option - if she's into it.  I don't know about that, though.  I don't think she'd want the involved work.  I could be wrong.  Er, why don't I just PM her ...

Duh.

Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

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