Red/Black Vampires turn 6 kill

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I was originally not very excited about Innistrad. However, once I played at the prerelease I loved it! Since then it has become one of my favorite sets of all time. I've made a Vampire deck that has been quite successful in play testing against a number of different decks. I am eager to try it out at an FNM and maybe use it at a PTQ. I would love to hear any suggestions you may have for the deck. If you do have an idea please tell me exactly why you would do this or what specific function it would serve. I also need to create a solid sideboard so any ideas for that would be appreciated. Thanks!

Land:

8x Swamp
9x Mountain
4x Dragonskull Summit
2x Blackcleave Cliffs

Other Spells:

1x Furor of the Bitten
3x Dead Weight
3x Vampiric Fury
3x Go for the Throat
2x Curse of Stalked Prey
2x Devil's Play

Creatures:

4x Stromkirk Noble
2x Vampire Interloper
2x Child of Night
2x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Rakish Heir
2x Markov Patrician
3x Bloodline Keeper
2x Olivia Voldaren
2x Falkenrath Marauders 
I would honestly consider running Vampire Outcasts over Markov Patrician. The extra mana can hurt, but so can your dudes dying to mana dorks. A 3 mana healing salve that kills a mana dork isn't good, it's like a conditional, sorcery speed lightning helix 50% of the time.
I'm new to the forums, and would really appreciate help on any of my deck lists, as those who live near me and play Magic is a small pool to draw from. I play EDH and Standard, and enjoy both Sealed and Draft in Limited. Wort EDH In standard I play U/w Delver/Illusions.
Thanks for the suggestion. Vampire outcasts could be very powerful, but I would need to take out either Olivia or Keeper becasuse I want to have a potential drop for each turn as I play another land. I think it would distort my mana curve to much to take out Markov Patrician.
I originally had 24 land and somehow that seemed to make a big difference. Any ideas on how to add one more swamp?
no offense.... but a turn 6 kill is nothing to brag about.

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no offense.... but a turn 6 kill is nothing to brag about.



I didn't say it was. I'm simply making the title informative. 
Against some decks it wins on turn 5. Any suggestions on how to make it better? 
I just played at an FNM and beat blue control, blue mill, birthing pod, mono black, green infect, and had a draw against red/green aggro. 
Oh, also beat blue/black vombies, but I don't think the deck was constructed very well.
Sometimes I wonder whether or not I want to play Standard. Who wants to play a game where your deck is considered sub-par if it's not finished in 4 turns? Seems silly.
An aggro deck kills by t4 against a dummy deck, or a general standard deck?

Edit:
What's in the sideboard? I posted a sideboard in my Vamps thread, but it's been ignored by the rush of new Vamps decks being posted in their own thread :P
the only thing i hate about this deck is that with with 3 mana your opponent will have you handless and field less

its a good deck and has the weakness that every aggro deck has. board wipes 24 lands for a deck that has  2.40 average mana cost its a bit to much. have you tried to drop to 23? 

also 1 of furor of the bitten its like having none in the deck. since you dont have any draw power 
Sometimes I wonder whether or not I want to play Standard. Who wants to play a game where your deck is considered sub-par if it's not finished in 4 turns? Seems silly.



It is a little annoying because it eliminates a lot of decks that could be really fun to play with.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not I want to play Standard. Who wants to play a game where your deck is considered sub-par if it's not finished in 4 turns? Seems silly.



That's not true.  Your deck is considered subpar if and only if it finishes that late and is an aggro deck.  Control and midrange can take their sweet time because they don't have to scoop to someone casting a titan AND they have removal and sweepers to keep the opposing deck from getting t4 kills.



As far as the game going too long or titans I haven't really had a problem so far. The deck has a fair amount of removal to get rid of a blocker or large threat. By the time someone plays a titan I'm usually going to win on that turn and if not I have some very large fliers that just go over them for the win. Worst case scenario Olivia can take gain control, but I've never actually had to do that yet. Or I can just finish them off with Devil's Play, which I did do once against a pod deck.

An aggro deck kills by t4 against a dummy deck, or a general standard deck?

Edit:
What's in the sideboard? I posted a sideboard in my Vamps thread, but it's been ignored by the rush of new Vamps decks being posted in their own thread :P



So far all I have for the sideboard is x4 Ancient Grudge x3 Doom Blade and x4 Volt Charge

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I want some Torpor Orb but that's the only other thing I can think of at the moment. 
Seems to me that Curse of the Nightly Hunt is still being undervalued. It's not good in all scenarios, but against certain decks which rely on creatures not attacking for a bit, having it in play will not only help you kill those creatures (with your pumped vamps) but it will also open the gates for your vampires to attack if need be.
the only thing i hate about this deck is that with with 3 mana your opponent will have you handless and field less

its a good deck and has the weakness that every aggro deck has. board wipes 24 lands for a deck that has  2.40 average mana cost its a bit to much. have you tried to drop to 23? 

also 1 of furor of the bitten its like having none in the deck. since you dont have any draw power 



I had 23 at one point but it seemed to make my hands less reliable when I tested, but I could have been just getting unlucky. 
I came to the same conclusion about furor of the bitten. I took it out with a few basic lands, and am now running 24 land with x7 mountain, x7 swamp, x4 Dragonskull Summit x4 Blackcleave Cliffs and 2x Stensia Bloodhall.
This is the modified list I used at the FNM. 
I see where you're coming from with Curse. Are you thinking sideboard? If not what do you think I should take out for it?
I see where you're coming from with Curse. Are you thinking sideboard? If not what do you think I should take out for it?



Sideboard suggestion, just for those situations when you're going to want to do a burn race, or where you know they're going to get defensive.
Thanks, I need places to fill anyway.
An aggro deck kills by t4 against a dummy deck, or a general standard deck?

Edit:
What's in the sideboard? I posted a sideboard in my Vamps thread, but it's been ignored by the rush of new Vamps decks being posted in their own thread :P



So far all I have for the sideboard is x4 Ancient Grudge x3 Doom Blade and x4 Volt Charge

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I want some Torpor Orb but that's the only other thing I can think of at the moment. 



Tribute to Hunger or Geth's Verdict for the hexproof guys.
Sometimes I wonder whether or not I want to play Standard. Who wants to play a game where your deck is considered sub-par if it's not finished in 4 turns? Seems silly.



It is a little annoying because it eliminates a lot of decks that could be really fun to play with.



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Thanks Zerokku. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that before. I have Geth's Verdict in another sideboard. I think overall it's better than tribute to hunger. It cost one less and does damage. The double black isn't a concern because I have a lot of duel lands. And I don't really need the life gain from tribute. If I'm losing the race something is seriously wrong. 
Note: Apon further testing it can win as fast as on turn 4.
Here is the new slightly modified list after playing at an FNM and some suggestions.

Land:

7x Swamp
7x Mountain
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Stensia Bloodhall

Other Spells:

3x Dead Weight
3x Vampiric Fury
3x Go for the Throat
2x Curse of Stalked Prey
2x Devil's Play

Creatures:

4x Stromkirk Noble
2x Vampire Interloper
2x Child of Night
2x Bloodcrazed Neonate
4x Rakish Heir
2x Markov Patrician
3x Bloodline Keeper
2x Olivia Voldaren
2x Falkenrath Marauders

Sideboard:

1x Curse of the Nightly Hunt
2x Volt Charge
4x Ancient Grudge
2x Geth's Verdict
2x Torpor Orb
2x Vampire Interloper
2x Witchbane Orb

How does it look?
Just curious. Do you Mulligan until Stormkirk is in your hand?
I would make a few small changes. To go along with the theme of getting damage in (stromkirk noble, rakish heir, bloodcrazed neonate), I would suggest changing the child of nights to vampire interlopers or bloodcrazed neonate. Also change the markov patricians to Crossway Vampires so you can get combat damage in a little bit eaier. I would also switch the Falkenrath Marauders with Bloodlord of Vaasgoth. it goes well with the theme of getting combat damage in, can boost all vampires by +3/+3 that are cast after it, and can be a big 6/6 flying threat with bloodthirst.

"This list much made Niche barf a lil' in his mouth, so I can be proud of that." -rstnme

Just curious. Do you Mulligan until Stormkirk is in your hand?



I did consider that in some of my games. I haven't played enough to decide for sure if that's worth it. I would say it somewhat depends on if I am playing first not. 
I would make a few small changes. To go along with the theme of getting damage in (stromkirk noble, rakish heir, bloodcrazed neonate), I would suggest changing the child of nights to vampire interlopers or bloodcrazed neonate. Also change the markov patricians to Crossway Vampires so you can get combat damage in a little bit eaier. I would also switch the Falkenrath Marauders with Bloodlord of Vaasgoth. it goes well with the theme of getting combat damage in, can boost all vampires by +3/+3 that are cast after it, and can be a big 6/6 flying threat with bloodthirst.



I have considered and tried all of that. Bloodlord of Vaasgoth seems to be a bit too slow and by the time I cast him I don't get much use out of the bloodthirst effect. As far as the Neonate and Interlopers goes I been kind of on the fence. The thing is I can't block at all with either of them. 
However, the Crossway Vampires might be a really good idea. I originally took them out in the early stages because of the double red cost, but now that I have more duel lands that could be a good idea. I'll try it out. Thanks for the suggestion. 
I would also switch the Falkenrath Marauders with Bloodlord of Vaasgoth. it goes well with the theme of getting combat damage in, can boost all vampires by +3/+3 that are cast after it, and can be a big 6/6 flying threat with bloodthirst.



I'm not sure you realize how big Falkenrath Marauders gets. I underestimated it too, until I saw it in this deck. In test play, it was easily exceeding 6/6 very quickly (1-2 turns if you get Rakish Heir or Curse of Stalked Prey) with the chance of getting even bigger.

Crossway Vampires is good though, better than most people realize. They are highly situational though, and often dropping them on turn 3 won't have as meaningful an effect as you would want. But it will be interesting to see how the deck runs with them.
I have yet to find Crossway Vampires useful. I'm always either playing aggressive creature decks (in which case my opponent's creatures are tapped), or they have too many blockers out, in which case knocking down one isn't going to be super helpful. I would rather play Nightbird's Clutches if I'm going that route, or just more removal. 
Honestly, you should comb through your creatures, Bloodlord and Bloodline are awesome as a 4of, Doomblades/GFTT Should get rid of their early creature pressure, Bloodline t4, Bloodlord t5 is game over. Sample playtest is, t1 stromkirk, t2 child/curse, t3 rakeish heir, t4 Bloodline, t5 bloodlord and removal in place of whatever when needed
I'm not 100% on Crossway Vampire, but i'm going to give it a shot it might actually help to save a turn in some situations. I could play it and get another Vamp out and go past a blocker instead of having to use a removal spell that turn.
Honestly, you should comb through your creatures, Bloodlord and Bloodline are awesome as a 4of, Doomblades/GFTT Should get rid of their early creature pressure, Bloodline t4, Bloodlord t5 is game over. Sample playtest is, t1 stromkirk, t2 child/curse, t3 rakeish heir, t4 Bloodline, t5 bloodlord and removal in place of whatever when needed



Correct me if I'm  wrong, but I believe you are suggesting the Bloodlord and Bloodline combo as a finisher because of the combined effect. However, the tokens will not get bloodthirst. This being the case Falkenwrath is faster and can get huge! Usually he becomes a 5/5 after the first turn. Plus I'm almost guarenteed to get at least some value before they use removal. Where as with Bloodlord I feel like he sits there for a turn as a target.
So I tried out the Crossway vampires and I think I'm going to keep them.
Have you considered Adaptive Automaton as a 3-drop?  The fact that they make all of your vamps bigger right away is pretty nice, and also the fact that they are colorless can help against things like Etched Champion and creatures equiped with swords.

Second I would run a mix of Doom Blade/Go for the Throat/Victim of Night to cover your basis... maybe have 2 of each between your sideboard and main, and then run 3 of whatever seems most usefull for what you've been seeing.

Also, I think Dismember would provide alot more for you than Dead Weight.  It's instant speed, takes out much bigger guys, can be cast for 1 colorless if needed, or if you have the extra black available you can save the life loss.

I imagine Arc Trail would do a lot for you as well.  Getting your guys to connect early seems pretty important, and the fact that it can often take out 2 small creatures seems pretty valuable, especially if you end up going second, and they've got 2 bodies by the time your able to attack with your Nobles.

Brimstone Volley is also a great card to consider, 5 damage for 3 mana is awesome, and depending on the situation can be a lot more usefull than Devil's Play...

And I'm not sure how big your guys get with the counters, but if they are regularly getting 4/4 or bigger, than Slagstorm could be a great sideboard card against other aggro decks that tend to run smaller creatures.

So I tried out the Crossway vampires and I think I'm going to keep them.



In place of Markov Patrician?
I don't like the lifegain guys at all.  I guess they help you tap out your team against aggro mirrors, but I don't see at all what they do for your Plan A.  Your default stance is the aggro deck that gets bigger than other aggro decks and has finisher-sized guys in the sky by the time control is trying to drop theirs. 

No reason not to run 4 Neonate.  I'd drop the Children or Patricians for the other two.  Also no good reason not to run Bloodlord.  I like your removal, but I kinda want more Curses.  Not to just spout what my testing partner's been building, but turn one Stromkirk, turn two Curse has been totally vile.  Playtesting against it, I wind up blowing high end removal on one and two drops the whole early game, and then he's just windmilling creepers like Olivia and Bloodlord.  Even playing Solar Flare I was having difficulty matching answers to threats.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Have you considered Adaptive Automaton as a 3-drop?  The fact that they make all of your vamps bigger right away is pretty nice, and also the fact that they are colorless can help against things like Etched Champion and creatures equiped with swords.

Second I would run a mix of Doom Blade/Go for the Throat/Victim of Night to cover your basis... maybe have 2 of each between your sideboard and main, and then run 3 of whatever seems most usefull for what you've been seeing.

Also, I think Dismember would provide alot more for you than Dead Weight.  It's instant speed, takes out much bigger guys, can be cast for 1 colorless if needed, or if you have the extra black available you can save the life loss.

I imagine Arc Trail would do a lot for you as well.  Getting your guys to connect early seems pretty important, and the fact that it can often take out 2 small creatures seems pretty valuable, especially if you end up going second, and they've got 2 bodies by the time your able to attack with your Nobles.

Brimstone Volley is also a great card to consider, 5 damage for 3 mana is awesome, and depending on the situation can be a lot more usefull than Devil's Play...

And I'm not sure how big your guys get with the counters, but if they are regularly getting 4/4 or bigger, than Slagstorm could be a great sideboard card against other aggro decks that tend to run smaller creatures.




Thank you for the suggestions. You've have some interesting points that aren't the standard thing everyone says.

I'll have to think about Adaptive Automaton. As far as removal goes I've been thinking about what to do with Dead Weight. In a way I want to get rid of it, but play testing and FNM keep proving me wrong. It seems to be a very cost effective removal. Sort of like the next best thing to the new Lightingbolt and it can really cripple any big guys they might have later on. However, I am thinking about trying a Doom Blade instead of one Dead Weight. Slagstorm might also be a good idea. My vamps do often get to 4 so I'll try it. 
So I tried out the Crossway vampires and I think I'm going to keep them.



In place of Markov Patrician?



Yes.
I don't like the lifegain guys at all.  I guess they help you tap out your team against aggro mirrors, but I don't see at all what they do for your Plan A.  Your default stance is the aggro deck that gets bigger than other aggro decks and has finisher-sized guys in the sky by the time control is trying to drop theirs. 

No reason not to run 4 Neonate.  I'd drop the Children or Patricians for the other two.  Also no good reason not to run Bloodlord.  I like your removal, but I kinda want more Curses.  Not to just spout what my testing partner's been building, but turn one Stromkirk, turn two Curse has been totally vile.  Playtesting against it, I wind up blowing high end removal on one and two drops the whole early game, and then he's just windmilling creepers like Olivia and Bloodlord.  Even playing Solar Flare I was having difficulty matching answers to threats.



You're right about lifelink. I had already replaced the Patricians with two Crossway Vampires. I'm thinking about doing 2 more Neonate instead of the 2 Child of Night. Bloodlord just doesn't work that well when I've tested him. He doesn't give bloodthirst to tokens, he sits there for a turn as a target before I ever get to use him, and by the time he's cast I'm usually not playing many more vampires anyway. Falkenwrath Marauders seem to work much better. They're faster and usually get just as big almost right away. 

 What do you think I should take out for another curse? Note: new decklist was posted about a page back.

You're right about lifelink. I had already replaced the Patricians with two Crossway Vampires. I'm thinking about doing 2 more Neonate instead of the 2 Child of Night. Bloodlord just doesn't work that well when I've tested him. He doesn't give bloodthirst to tokens, he sits there for a turn as a target before I ever get to use him, and by the time he's cast I'm usually not playing many more vampires anyway. Falkenwrath Marauders seem to work much better. They're faster and usually get just as big almost right away. 

 What do you think I should take out for another curse? Note: new decklist was posted about a page back.


My buddy's list started out running the Vampiric Fury, but we ended up dropping it for the Curses and a Bloodgift Demon.  All your dudes get super big on their own, and we viewed the Curse as a permanent Fury.  I can also see the instant pump being really cool as a surprise alpha though, so definitely your call.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Don't need 4 Neonates. Drop one and put in the Curse there.
I'm not convinved about a third curse yet. I'll try it though. BTW I'm doing 3 Neonate and 3 Interloper intsead of the Children of night.
Looking over your list again I would try to get in some extra 1 drops... right now you have 8, but 4 of them cant be played if you go first, and do almost nothing against a control deck for the first several turns...
(Correction, you are running 7, and 3 cant be played if you go first)

Dead weight can be good, but Shock is just as good at removal early on, and also has the large bonus of being able to hit your oponent, and sometimes that final 2 damage can make all the difference.  I do get though that Dead Weight has the benifit of making the bigger creatures near useless later on, however after the first turn Doom Blade/Go for the Throat/Victim of Night are basically much better.  Geistflame is also something to consider, since it can give you a 2 for 1.

You might also wan't to consider Tormented Soul.  I know its not a vampire, but if you get curse of the stalked prety up, the fact that its unblockable can be devastating.  If you are gonna put him in though, I'd say you need to up your number of curses... and considering that they stack on each other I feel like thats probably a good idea.