10/06/2011 TD: "Innistrad: The First Look"

16 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of this week's Top Decks article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
im saddened that champion of the parish doesnt get buffed by tokens from either hero of bladehold or elspeth tirel because using those with Parallel Lives would be a really wicked ender.
Phyrexian crusader is looking good in this format.
In all those decks, I only see one that doesn't play at least four artifacts and/or enchantments in the main deck. If my next Standard deck is green, I'm pretty sure I'll play Naturalize in the main. Same for some kind of discard effect if I'm playing black. Gotta keep that Geist on the ground...

I'm a bit disappointed that we don't see more Innistrad cards here. Or more suprises in the Innistrad cards people are playing; everything in there was pretty well predicted. I was looking for deck ideas, myself. But it hasn't even been legal for a week yet, so I guess it's still pretty early.

Seems to be a consensus on what the best cards will be, even if the way they were arranged into decks differ.  Nary a green deck to be seen.  Tons of Gideon Jura, Timely Reinforcements, Day of Judgment, Dismember, and Hero of Bladehold.  Seems like you are either running red or running white with Timely Reinforcements to counteract red.  As noted by another poster, Phyrexian Crusader is going to be pretty sick in this meta due to having protection from both red and white.  I'm thinking a UB Infect/Control deck similar to Patrick Chapin's, except mine would be more aggressive, with more infect.  Phyrexian Crusader, the blight dragon, Inkmoth Nexus with swords.  The rest Tezz and artifacts.  Control the game and win through either Phyrexian Crusader with a Sword, an big infect dragon, or a big Inkmoth Nexus enhanced by Tezz.  Either way, you're looking at a big 4 or 5 power infector with evasion.


I thought I would be excited for the SolarFlare style decks because Unburial Rites is such a powerful card imo.  But at least for me they fell flat.  They are going to spend a good deal of resources just to get back a Sun Titan on turn 5 or so.  Idk how good that's going to be because that's relatively easy to deal with.


I'm much more excited about the new Blade decks.  Most of the best cards seem to be in UW, which is my favorite color combination.  Geist of Saint Traft is pretty insane with Swords.  Think Troll Ascetic that also puts a 4/4 angel into play when attacking.  That's two really powerful abilities at 3 mana.  I'm a little surprised that the Blade decks didn't include Mirran Crusader and that's the first thing I'd change.  I'm also surprised at the absence of Sword of war and peace in this format.  It's so incredibly good equipped to a Mirran Crusader and it's protection is more relevant in this format.  So I'd change that too, using multiple copies either main or side.  But the concept of that deck seems more powerful to me than SolarFlare.  A Mirran Crusader or Geist with the correct sword is going to be a lot more powerful than a Sun Titan and is coming down earlier too.

So I'm thinking about either a UB Infect Control deck or a Blade deck based around Mirran Crusader, Giest, and swords.       

I thought I would be excited for the SolarFlare style decks because Unburial Rites is such a powerful card imo.  But at least for me they fell flat.  They are going to spend a good deal of resources just to get back a Sun Titan on turn 5 or so.  Idk how good that's going to be because that's relatively easy to deal with.


And then get it back again when you kill it. You're looking at it the wrong way; it's not a reanimator deck at all. The point of Unburial Rites is that as soon as that first titan eats a Doom Blade or gets dumped by Forbidden Alchemy, every Unburial Rites you draw is a titan...with flashback.

The turn 4 titan draw is nice, but the deck's actual biggest strength is the fact that it doesn't play fair against removal. You just can't beat it with one-for-ones or with Day of Judgment.

I'd put together Flare but every time I resolve to buy a set of Liliana she jumps another $15 before I get the chance. At this point...not happening. I might put together something like that red/green Garruk deck instead.
blah blah metal lyrics
Spined Thopter represent!

***************************************************************************************

From Mark Rosewater's Tumblr: the0uroboros asked: How in the same set can we have a hexproof, unsacrificable(not a word) creature AND a land that makes it uncounterable. How does this lead to interactive play? I believe I’m able to play my creature and you have to deal with it is much more interactive than you counter my creature.

***************************************************************************************

Post #777

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green). He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one." I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago."

***************************************************************************************

MaRo: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

I thought I would be excited for the SolarFlare style decks because Unburial Rites is such a powerful card imo.  But at least for me they fell flat.  They are going to spend a good deal of resources just to get back a Sun Titan on turn 5 or so.  Idk how good that's going to be because that's relatively easy to deal with.



I haven't fully tested it, but the power is the recursion the Titan allows. The deck isn't so much trying to dump and reanimate as to pile up masses of CA by rebuying things. Titan by itself isn't the threat. It's Titan bringing back Liliana, kill your guy. Then bringing her back again if she ever dies again somehow. Or since they don't want you bringing her back full strength, they let her live, she dumps something else Sun Titan can return, say Snapcaster, then Snapcaster for the removal spell to kill whatever you would've Lili'd.

If Titan dies, that's what the reanimation spells are for. When I've played a very similar deck, often I've hardcast him the first time and then reanimated him multiple times.
I thought I would be excited for the SolarFlare style decks because Unburial Rites is such a powerful card imo.  But at least for me they fell flat.  They are going to spend a good deal of resources just to get back a Sun Titan on turn 5 or so.  Idk how good that's going to be because that's relatively easy to deal with.



I haven't fully tested it, but the power is the recursion the Titan allows. The deck isn't so much trying to dump and reanimate as to pile up masses of CA by rebuying things. Titan by itself isn't the threat. It's Titan bringing back Liliana, kill your guy. Then bringing her back again if she ever dies again somehow. Or since they don't want you bringing her back full strength, they let her live, she dumps something else Sun Titan can return, say Snapcaster, then Snapcaster for the removal spell to kill whatever you would've Lili'd.

If Titan dies, that's what the reanimation spells are for. When I've played a very similar deck, often I've hardcast him the first time and then reanimated him multiple times.

Pretty good engine.  If you're control yourself and planning to play the long game, ways to efficiently fight it that are Dissipate and good graveyard hate. Without any exiling, kind of a tall order. Myself, I like Surgical Extraction on the Titan. The deck already plays some for the mirror.
Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
im saddened that champion of the parish doesnt get buffed by tokens from either hero of bladehold or elspeth tirel because using those with Parallel Lives would be a really wicked ender.



Sadly, it's the relatively un-Tribal-friendly tendency to only mark some tribes (Spirit, Zombie) and some classes (Soldier) for token creation that makes this difficult. It's asking you to cast actual cards, or make tokens in some other fashion which also happen to be Human (and which don't involve non-aggro/control Rite of Replication). Otherwise, any token that is Human works ... just not the most popularly useable ones like Reinforcements, Hero, and Elspeth ... and that's fine. Only Hero is aggressively aggro for said deck, the others are far more defensive.

Control the game and win through either Phyrexian Crusader with a Sword, an big infect dragon, or a big Inkmoth Nexus enhanced by Tezz.  Either way, you're looking at a big 4 or 5 power infector with evasion.



Ordinarily, this is a good move ... once. Tezzeret will transform an animated Nexus, making it a 5/5 flying artifact creature with infect. Permanents that gain types overwrite previous types, which is why lands that become creatures have text to indicate they are still lands (this is not reminder text); this means Nexus is no longer a land, although it retains the mana ability. Moreover, it retains the text that says becomes a 1/1 flying artifact creature that is still a land; because its no longer a land anymore, this last bit won't be relevant, but the first part is:

If you animate a Nexus, then use Tezz's ability, it becomes a 5/5 flying artifact creature with infect, loses its land type, and retains all other abilities.

Next turn, if you attempt to use Nexus' second ability to "jump", you will have a 1/1 flying artifact creature with infect, and must use Tezz's ability again. This shouldn't be a problem, unless your opponent is throwing out chump blockers, but it could be very relevant in some scenarios.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Champ gets along *ahem* like a champ with Hero of Bladehold, too.



How do you figure?  Hero only gives the Champion one trigger, just like any other human in the deck.  The soldier tokens are not human (I don't know what else they would be, but their race seems to have been left out in a bit of an oversight).

Really though Wizards, how about some errata here?  There have been Bird Soldier tokens, Goblin Soldier tokens, Kithkin Soldier tokens, and Kor Soldier tokens, but the humans are just plain Soldiers?  This was fine before, when nothing really affected humans, but now that we have a block with a "human matters" subtheme, with a human lord, human triggers, and equipment optimized for humans, how about adding some specifics to all of these tokens?
Well my original comment accidentally got deleted , so I'm just gonig to post my deck idea that came from Tempered Steel and Red Deck Wins combined.  Enjoy and please leave feedback.  The most surprising thing for me was that no deck in this article used ghostly quarters and I put inkmoth in this deck to work really well with curse of stalked prey.  Here's the deck list called "Smelted Steel":

"Smelted Steel"
Lands
inkmoth nexus 4
mountain 15
ghostly quarters 2
 
Creatures
memnite 4
signal pest 4
spined thopter 4
vault skirge 4
stormkirk noble 4
stormblood berserker 4

Spells
brimstone volley 4
curse of stalked prey 4
shrine of burning rage 4
koth of the hammer 3
Ordinarily, this is a good move ... once. Tezzeret will transform an animated Nexus, making it a 5/5 flying artifact creature with infect. Permanents that gain types overwrite previous types, which is why lands that become creatures have text to indicate they are still lands (this is not reminder text); this means Nexus is no longer a land, although it retains the mana ability. Moreover, it retains the text that says becomes a 1/1 flying artifact creature that is still a land; because its no longer a land anymore, this last bit won't be relevant, but the first part is:

If you animate a Nexus, then use Tezz's ability, it becomes a 5/5 flying artifact creature with infect, loses its land type, and retains all other abilities.

This is wrong, the Nexus is still a land:

205.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [type, supertype, or subtype].” Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.
Ordinarily, this is a good move ... once. Tezzeret will transform an animated Nexus, making it a 5/5 flying artifact creature with infect. Permanents that gain types overwrite previous types, which is why lands that become creatures have text to indicate they are still lands (this is not reminder text); this means Nexus is no longer a land, although it retains the mana ability. Moreover, it retains the text that says becomes a 1/1 flying artifact creature that is still a land; because its no longer a land anymore, this last bit won't be relevant, but the first part is:

If you animate a Nexus, then use Tezz's ability, it becomes a 5/5 flying artifact creature with infect, loses its land type, and retains all other abilities.

This is wrong, the Nexus is still a land:

205.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [type, supertype, or subtype].” Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.



Thank you, Orcish, but I covered this in my post. The rule you note does make a point of clarifying, so:

"but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype."

Nexus (both of them, and any other manland), indicate that they become a "creature. It's still a land." This isn't a "useful mnemonic," it's not there to make the player remember better that he can still tap his creature for mana (unless it's now subject to summoning sickness as in you droped said land that turn).

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas simply changes the type line. Look at the rule right before the one you posted:

"205.1a Some effects set an object‘s card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types."

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Thank you, Orcish, but I covered this in my post. The rule you note does make a point of clarifying, so:

"but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype."

Nexus (both of them, and any other manland), indicate that they become a "creature. It's still a land." This isn't a "useful mnemonic," it's not there to make the player remember better that he can still tap his creature for mana (unless it's now subject to summoning sickness as in you droped said land that turn).

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas simply changes the type line. Look at the rule right before the one you posted:

"205.1a Some effects set an object‘s card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types."

Again, here's the sentence I highlighted from 205.1b:

Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.

And here's Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas's ability:

-1: Target artifact becomes a 5/5 artifact creature.

Thus, Inkmoth Nexus retains all of its prior card types and subtypes after it is made an artifact creature by Tezzeret's ability.
Thank you, Orcish, but I covered this in my post. The rule you note does make a point of clarifying, so:

"but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype."

Nexus (both of them, and any other manland), indicate that they become a "creature. It's still a land." This isn't a "useful mnemonic," it's not there to make the player remember better that he can still tap his creature for mana (unless it's now subject to summoning sickness as in you droped said land that turn).

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas simply changes the type line. Look at the rule right before the one you posted:

"205.1a Some effects set an object‘s card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types."

Again, here's the sentence I highlighted from 205.1b:

Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.

And here's Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas's ability:

-1: Target artifact becomes a 5/5 artifact creature.

Thus, Inkmoth Nexus retains all of its prior card types and subtypes after it is made an artifact creature by Tezzeret's ability.



Perhaps you are confused. 205.1a indicates that when an effect tells another object it is a type, it replaces that thing's original type, it does not add that type to the list. 205.1b indicates only that when an object would gain type, that it does not overwrite it. Tezz is overwriting by setting the type:

"In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types."

Sorry, went back and noted an additional rider on the ability in 205.1b qualifies any such abilities:

"Some effects state that an object becomes an "artifact creature"; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes."

So it will go back to being a land, and I am incorrect on the point of it losing "land" as a type forever. However, this doesn't effect the second element of the conversation, that using it's ability to jump the creature will turn it back into a 1/1 flier. You will still have to use Tezz's ability on it each turn.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Sign In to post comments