Discuss MTGO Q3 Update

112 posts / 0 new
Last post
This is to discuss the Q3 Update posted here: www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.a...

DISCUSS!
Michael Robles Community Manager Wizards of the Coast Twitter: @michaelrobles
"article not found"
"article not found"



You sure? You might want to check again.
Michael Robles Community Manager Wizards of the Coast Twitter: @michaelrobles
Works now, thanks.  it did not work the first 4 times i clicked it.  
When will we see more screenshots of the new UI?  What is the ETA?
League development might get underway by Q3 2012.  So, we'll actually see leagues in what, 2014?  *not sarcasm*
And once again, no word on getting a mac version. .:sigh:.
WPF = no Mac version.

Microsoft shops always remain Microsoft shops.

Frown 

You'll have to keep dual booting or virtual machining. 
And once again, no word on getting a mac version. .:sigh:.


We've already known for some time there will be no Mac version in the foreseeable future.

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
Leagues???? – We are still evaluating several potential development dates for leagues.

I played MTGO when it had leagues (back in 2007).  It was my favorite way to play! It was great for a guy which likes limited play but can't sit at a computer for 2-3 hours.... drafting ugh! doesn't any one else have a wife and kids?

I stopped playing MTGO when the leagues went away....

I would probably play MTGO if the leagues came back. Leagues obviously does not make business sense for some reason; I really don’t expect them to be coming back.... 
Yeah, I will be truly shocked if Leagues ever return. It's been how many years now, and they still haven't started development and expect to maybe start sometime a year from now? 

I miss them, and I feel they were the best part of Magic Online, and quite frankly I would have happily taken the faults of the old client to get back Leagues and the super chat room interface.

Well, whatever. You're right, there's obviously some business reason they haven't brought Leagues back yet, because if they made them more money, they would have been back 3 years ago. It just makes me sad.  
Yeah, same.  I used to regularly be in 3-5 leagues at any given time.  It was great, great limited fun.  A great way to spend some downtime and just play an endless stream of tiebreaker matches.  I guess that was a problem for Wizards because that was time spent not paying for more events. 
And once again, no word on getting a mac version. .:sigh:.

Nor Linux, etc. Another platform just isn't one of their stated objectives.

"Our intention is to have the new client available at the same time as the current client for some period of time when it is launched so players can make the switch at their own pace."

Wow, I never though that they would attempt to try this.
"Our intention is to have the new client available at the same time as the current client for some period of time when it is launched so players can make the switch at their own pace."

Wow, I never though that they would attempt to try this.


MTG:O was down for what, almost two weeks, when we transitioned from v2 to v3?

Do you have any idea how much revenue was lost during that time frame?

HEY ALGONA! Can you calculate that for me? kthx!

Guess what? Chicken butt.

"Our intention is to have the new client available at the same time as the current client for some period of time when it is launched so players can make the switch at their own pace."

Wow, I never though that they would attempt to try this.



In reality, however, everyone will transition to the new client the very moment it is released.
Astounding advances in screenshot capture technology have been made recently that the development/marketing team is obviously not aware of. It no longer takes more than 6 months ( it now only takes several seconds) to capture a screenshot for display in another document. Pass this info on to the team and perhaps soon we can get screenshoots of the new UI more recent than the Q1 update.
WotC has always been so cool, but why do they keep practically lying to us about leagues? They've said for so long that they were coming soon, and now we see that they MIGHT think about STARTING to work on getting programming BEGUN in about a YEAR!!!

I just wish I'd never heard of MTGO. Need to sell all my stuff. Sad day.
And how about they let us UPGRADE to the LAST client "at our own pace"???

I guess I should just be an optimist and realize this news is just a way of saving me time from using MTGO again someday.
Anyone have any clue whwn Masques is going to be releases online? I really want to build one of my edh decks on there, but it revolves around Black Market...
Hey, does anyone know if the stuff mentioned in this post has anything to do with when we'll be getting our MOPR cards? I've been trying to find out when they're going out and have had absolutely no luck. I was really looking forward to getting the Capsize, as I need it for something.

Anyone know either what's up or who I ask? I would have emailed, but none of the "respond via email" links in any of the articles are working for me.
Hey, does anyone know if the stuff mentioned in this post has anything to do with when we'll be getting our MOPR cards? I've been trying to find out when they're going out and have had absolutely no luck. I was really looking forward to getting the Capsize, as I need it for something.

Anyone know either what's up or who I ask? I would have emailed, but none of the "respond via email" links in any of the articles are working for me.



Usually these are granted during the first downtime after the season ends - which I believe is today.

Go draft, young man, go draft!

Oh, okay. I was under the impression it ended last Thursday. Thanks. :-)
So when are they going to make the interface not something from the 80s?
I wince every time I log in.  Can't imagine the number of new players who abandon it because the usability is so horrible and unforgiving.
Yeah, I will be truly shocked if Leagues ever return. It's been how many years now, and they still haven't started development and expect to maybe start sometime a year from now? 

I miss them, and I feel they were the best part of Magic Online, and quite frankly I would have happily taken the faults of the old client to get back Leagues and the super chat room interface.

Well, whatever. You're right, there's obviously some business reason they haven't brought Leagues back yet, because if they made them more money, they would have been back 3 years ago. It just makes me sad.  




They were the best part of Magic Online, but apparently wotc wants to whistle and watch them quietly diappear into the night.

And after 3+ years of no leagues, this tactic is working well. A large number of players I interact with (via drafts, casual room and auction room mostly) don't even know what a league is. I describe it to them and they say it sounds cool, but they won't be of the mind to demand them since they never actually had them. Every year that goes by the percentage of players that fall into this catagory grows, and as it does the demand for leagues from the minority that actually remembers them will gradually diminish. They will eventually become unknow to most and a distant memory to the older users. 


So when are they going to make the interface not something from the 80s?
I wince every time I log in.  Can't imagine the number of new players who abandon it because the usability is so horrible and unforgiving.

I've seen this particular complaint (or similar) a couple of times from different quarters; I just don't see it, though. Am I just insensitive to some major problem with the visual aesthetic, or is this like my brother dismissing Spelunky for having "bad graphics"?

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

So when are they going to make the interface not something from the 80s?
I wince every time I log in.  Can't imagine the number of new players who abandon it because the usability is so horrible and unforgiving.

I've seen this particular complaint (or similar) a couple of times from different quarters; I just don't see it, though. Am I just insensitive to some major problem with the visual aesthetic, or is this like my brother dismissing Spelunky for having "bad graphics"?



I think he was talking about "usability", where he has a point. Overstated, but a point.

Go draft, young man, go draft!

As another of those old players, I absolutely detest this idea of leagues being started in a year.  Leagues were one of the funnest things about playing MTG:O. 

When I started playing back at the ripe age of 18, this gave me a fun way to try limited events without the huge drawback of 1 game loss = no more game time.  It allowed for those of us with no knowledge of a format to try out different deck ideas against other players sans a lot of the hassle you would have to go through right now.

Having aged a tiny bit, and lost a lot of time to work, college, marriage, etc, it makes sense to have a format that requires incremental time investments while still rewarding us with some limited format knowledge. 

I also agree with all the parts about not spending money on the program.  I have a hard time now justifying the expense of purchasing packs and tix for one time events online, whereas a league format would give me more incentive to do something when I log in instead of just sit there with the browser window open.

Please hear our cries!  Please fix leagues sooner!
IDK if it's worth it to format a standard response to this kind of post but I'm tempted ...

Leagues were not all warm fuzzies, and rainbows, and unicorns farting out butterflies.

There were some glaring issues with leagues as they existed in v2. While I would love for them to return, and agree that they need to return in some form, I also know that based on their continued absence, WotC saw them as not as financially required as was assumed by many players.

Some players stopped playing altogether, yes. But some of those League players moved to PE's/DE's/Drafts. And I'm willing to bet that enough players did transition over to more profitable areas so that the revenue stream from those who did move outweighed the revenue stream from those who stopped playing.
And consider; how much revenue would now be "lost" if Leagues were reinstated and players moved from say, Swiss drafts, over to a League?

And don't tell me that increased revenue from new players rejoining would make up for that loss.

League length was 4 weeks
Initial cost was a Tournament Pack and 3 boosters, but it would probably be 6 boosters now, and 4 (?) tickets: $30
Booster per week x3 (optional): $12
Total cost: $42

Swiss drafts costs 3 boosters + 2 tix: 14

Using this very basic model, the same player would have to limit themselves to less then 1 draft per week. Do you know any drafters who draft at such a low level?
Hmmmm?
Also consider that leagues prizes payed out down to about the top 1/3 of players

It's pretty obvious that drafts have a much better margin. And it's pretty obvious why there's no hurry.

Guess what? Chicken butt.

Nah, man, your totally right too.  I understand totally that there is both a $$ value associated with reinstating leagues, both in terms of how much for the team to do it, how much they will bring in, and the loss in revenue from drafts.  Totally dig it dude.

It was just a fun format that since removal has created a void in some players hearts.  Finding some middle ground, perhaps even just a week long league style event or something similar would be nice.
i gotta give it to gordon though, he writes an entire page yet manages to say nothing
IDK if it's worth it to format a standard response to this kind of post but I'm tempted ...

Leagues were not all warm fuzzies, and rainbows, and unicorns farting out butterflies.

There were some glaring issues with leagues as they existed in v2. While I would love for them to return, and agree that they need to return in some form, I also know that based on their continued absence, WotC saw them as not as financially required as was assumed by many players.

Some players stopped playing altogether, yes. But some of those League players moved to PE's/DE's/Drafts. And I'm willing to bet that enough players did transition over to more profitable areas so that the revenue stream from those who did move outweighed the revenue stream from those who stopped playing.
And consider; how much revenue would now be "lost" if Leagues were reinstated and players moved from say, Swiss drafts, over to a League?

And don't tell me that increased revenue from new players rejoining would make up for that loss.

League length was 4 weeks
Initial cost was a Tournament Pack and 3 boosters, but it would probably be 6 boosters now, and 4 (?) tickets: $30
Booster per week x3 (optional): $12
Total cost: $42

Swiss drafts costs 3 boosters + 2 tix: 14

Using this very basic model, the same player would have to limit themselves to less then 1 draft per week. Do you know any drafters who draft at such a low level?
Hmmmm?
Also consider that leagues prizes payed out down to about the top 1/3 of players

It's pretty obvious that drafts have a much better margin. And it's pretty obvious why there's no hurry.



Amount of money Wizards would make off of me each month if they offered leagues: $30-$42

Amount of money Wizards makes off of me each month now: $0

Your arguement is bunk.
I have no problems, I could just use a bit of time.
Amount of money Wizards would make off of me each month if they offered leagues: $30-$42

Amount of money Wizards makes off of me each month now: $0

Your arguement is bunk.


You are wrong because: #3

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead. On Strike

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


Show
Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

Show
"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
And once again, no word on getting a mac version. .:sigh:.


We've already known for some time there will be no Mac version in the foreseeable future.


Guess that saves me some money...
In reality, however, everyone will transition to the new client the very moment it is released.


Don't be so sure about that. I'd still rather play with the V2 client if possible, and V4 has yet to prove that it would be an upgrade.
...
Amount of money Wizards would make off of me each month if they offered leagues: $30-$42

Amount of money Wizards makes off of me each month now: $0

Your arguement is bunk.


Pretty? Maybe.
Smart? Up for debate.

Guess what? Chicken butt.

PLEASE fix the '3letter nicks can't watch replays' bug. PLEASE
PLEASE fix the '3letter nicks can't watch replays' bug. PLEASE



Yes. I was amazed that this was actually the issue. I'd seen videos of other people using replays and just figured that they miraculously managed to find a time when the server wasn't "too busy." 
IDK if it's worth it to format a standard response to this kind of post but I'm tempted ...

Leagues were not all warm fuzzies, and rainbows, and unicorns farting out butterflies.

There were some glaring issues with leagues as they existed in v2. While I would love for them to return, and agree that they need to return in some form, I also know that based on their continued absence, WotC saw them as not as financially required as was assumed by many players.

Some players stopped playing altogether, yes. But some of those League players moved to PE's/DE's/Drafts. And I'm willing to bet that enough players did transition over to more profitable areas so that the revenue stream from those who did move outweighed the revenue stream from those who stopped playing.
And consider; how much revenue would now be "lost" if Leagues were reinstated and players moved from say, Swiss drafts, over to a League?

And don't tell me that increased revenue from new players rejoining would make up for that loss.

League length was 4 weeks
Initial cost was a Tournament Pack and 3 boosters, but it would probably be 6 boosters now, and 4 (?) tickets: $30
Booster per week x3 (optional): $12
Total cost: $42

Swiss drafts costs 3 boosters + 2 tix: 14

Using this very basic model, the same player would have to limit themselves to less then 1 draft per week. Do you know any drafters who draft at such a low level?
Hmmmm?
Also consider that leagues prizes payed out down to about the top 1/3 of players

It's pretty obvious that drafts have a much better margin. And it's pretty obvious why there's no hurry.



Hang on, though.  Your model assumes customers with enough money to do whatever they want but an aversion to spending it.  What if we instead assume customers have a fixed budget (lets say $50 a month) to spend on entertainment and are choosing between MTGO and a variety of other options?

1 league costs the same as maybe 4-8 drafts, depending on win percentages - they'd be choosing between 3-6 hours of entertainment per week from the drafts, or "as much as they want" from the leagues.

I wouldn't be in a rush to discount the potential users from the leagues.  Just off the top of my head, World of Warcraft pulled in 10 million people for $15 a month, and Netflix was up at 25 million for $10-25 a month - both with a "have as much as you want" attitude.  Sure Magic is not that popular of an IP, but it claims to have 6 million users worldwide and has only converted maybe 30,000 of them to regular online players.


Or, from the other angle: 
Let's say we have Joe Swiss Drafter, who hides $50 a month from his wife and spends it on MTGO.  JSD is currently drafting 8 times a month on that budget.  Leagues come out, and he immediately converts to doing two leagues with his $50 instead of the drafts.

Either way, Wizards is pulling in $50 a month from JSD.  In this case, Wizards would want have him in the lowest prize-ratio events possible (eases issues on the secondary market) - which is leagues by miles.  End result of the switch:  same cash for Wizards, happier players, less prize/card flooding.  Everyone wins?
IDK if it's worth it to format a standard response to this kind of post but I'm tempted ...

Leagues were not all warm fuzzies, and rainbows, and unicorns farting out butterflies.

There were some glaring issues with leagues as they existed in v2. While I would love for them to return, and agree that they need to return in some form, I also know that based on their continued absence, WotC saw them as not as financially required as was assumed by many players.

Some players stopped playing altogether, yes. But some of those League players moved to PE's/DE's/Drafts. And I'm willing to bet that enough players did transition over to more profitable areas so that the revenue stream from those who did move outweighed the revenue stream from those who stopped playing.
And consider; how much revenue would now be "lost" if Leagues were reinstated and players moved from say, Swiss drafts, over to a League?

And don't tell me that increased revenue from new players rejoining would make up for that loss.

League length was 4 weeks
Initial cost was a Tournament Pack and 3 boosters, but it would probably be 6 boosters now, and 4 (?) tickets: $30
Booster per week x3 (optional): $12
Total cost: $42

Swiss drafts costs 3 boosters + 2 tix: 14

Using this very basic model, the same player would have to limit themselves to less then 1 draft per week. Do you know any drafters who draft at such a low level?
Hmmmm?
Also consider that leagues prizes payed out down to about the top 1/3 of players

It's pretty obvious that drafts have a much better margin. And it's pretty obvious why there's no hurry.



Hang on, though.  Your model assumes customers with enough money to do whatever they want but an aversion to spending it.  What if we instead assume customers have a fixed budget (lets say $50 a month) to spend on entertainment and are choosing between MTGO and a variety of other options?

1 league costs the same as maybe 4-8 drafts, depending on win percentages - they'd be choosing between 3-6 hours of entertainment per week from the drafts, or "as much as they want" from the leagues.

I wouldn't be in a rush to discount the potential users from the leagues.  Just off the top of my head, World of Warcraft pulled in 10 million people for $15 a month, and Netflix was up at 25 million for $10-25 a month - both with a "have as much as you want" attitude.  Sure Magic is not that popular of an IP, but it claims to have 6 million users worldwide and has only converted maybe 30,000 of them to regular online players.


Or, from the other angle: 
Let's say we have Joe Swiss Drafter, who hides $50 a month from his wife and spends it on MTGO.  JSD is currently drafting 8 times a month on that budget.  Leagues come out, and he immediately converts to doing two leagues with his $50 instead of the drafts.

Either way, Wizards is pulling in $50 a month from JSD.  In this case, Wizards would want have him in the lowest prize-ratio events possible (eases issues on the secondary market) - which is leagues by miles.  End result of the switch:  same cash for Wizards, happier players, less prize/card flooding.  Everyone wins?



Pff, a customer like that isn't worth having. What you need is a customer who hides away $50, plays a few drafts, wins a few packs. Uses those packs to enter a few more events, but gradually loses all his packs. Now, in an effort to get back into the limited game, JSD sells his wife's extra pairs of shoes to get a few more packs and play a few more games because he knows deep down that he's just a few games away from a big winning streak.

That's the kind of customer you want.

...

Hang on, though.  Your model assumes customers with enough money to do whatever they want but an aversion to spending it.  What if we instead assume customers have a fixed budget (lets say $50 a month) to spend on entertainment and are choosing between MTGO and a variety of other options?

1 league costs the same as maybe 4-8 drafts, depending on win percentages - they'd be choosing between 3-6 hours of entertainment per week from the drafts, or "as much as they want" from the leagues.

I wouldn't be in a rush to discount the potential users from the leagues.  Just off the top of my head, World of Warcraft pulled in 10 million people for $15 a month, and Netflix was up at 25 million for $10-25 a month - both with a "have as much as you want" attitude.  Sure Magic is not that popular of an IP, but it claims to have 6 million users worldwide and has only converted maybe 30,000 of them to regular online players.


Or, from the other angle: 
Let's say we have Joe Swiss Drafter, who hides $50 a month from his wife and spends it on MTGO.  JSD is currently drafting 8 times a month on that budget.  Leagues come out, and he immediately converts to doing two leagues with his $50 instead of the drafts.

Either way, Wizards is pulling in $50 a month from JSD.  In this case, Wizards would want have him in the lowest prize-ratio events possible (eases issues on the secondary market) - which is leagues by miles.  End result of the switch:  same cash for Wizards, happier players, less prize/card flooding.  Everyone wins?


WotC doens't care where Joe Swiss spends his money because regardless of options he's only ever going to spend X amount.
He doesn't figure into calculations.

Obviously there are a lot of variables but when it comes to sanctioned play there are essentially 3 types of customers:
Those for whom time is a limiting factor
Those for whom money is a limiting factor
And those who are not limited by either

Players limited by funds will spend it wherever they can, so venue is irrelevant.
And Drafts/PE's already offer different lengths of play for those constrained by time.


Guess what? Chicken butt.

Sign In to post comments