Void Defender. Protecting people while not there.

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Void defender.  Gives enemies a penalty for not attacking him.  Then promply goes away.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Void Defender, level 29
Genasi, Fighter/Warden, Scion of Absence, Reincarnate Champion
Hybrid Talent Option: Warden's Armored Might
Guardian Might Option: Wildblood
Hybrid Warden Option: Hybrid Warden Fortitude
Epic Vitality Option: Epic Vitality Strength
Elemental Manifestation Option: Voidsoul
Past Spirit Option: Past Spirit (Shadar-kai)
Past Spirit Option: Past Spirit (Tiefling)
Theme: Gladiator

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 28, CON 14, DEX 12, INT 16, WIS 24, CHA 10

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 12, DEX 10, INT 12, WIS 16, CHA 8


AC: 33 Fort: 35 Ref: 29 Will: 32
HP: 198 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 49

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +21, Nature +30

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +13, Arcana +19, Athletics +21, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +23, Endurance +16, Heal +23, History +19, Insight +23, Perception +23, Religion +19, Stealth +13, Streetwise +16, Thievery +13

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Gladiator Feature: Disrupting Advance
Genasi Racial Power: Void Assumption
Genasi Racial Power: Ashfall Evasion
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Warden Feature: Warden's Fury
Warden Feature: Warden's Grasp
Druid Feature: Wild Shape
Shadar-kai Racial Power: Shadow Jaunt
Dwarf Racial Power: Dwarven Resilience
Fighter Utility 2: Glowering Threat
Fighter Attack 7: Come and Get It
Druid Utility 10: Feywild Sojourn
Seeker Utility 10: Feywild Jaunt
Scion of Absence Attack 11: Glimpse of the Void
Scion of Absence Utility 12: Wearing the Void
Scion of Absence Attack 20: Voidsoul Infliction
Fighter Utility 22: Undeniable Challenge
Fighter Attack 23: Warrior's Urging
Reincarnate Champion Utility 26: Swift Reincarnation
Warden Attack 27: Blood of Nature's Foes

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 8: Initiate of the Old Faith
Level 10: Acolyte Power
Level 11: Daunting Challenge
Level 12: Vital Form
Level 18: Extra Manifestation
Level 21: Dual Manifestation
Level 21: Shadow Exile
Level 22: Keep Them Close
Level 24: Wild Surge
Level 26: Secrets of Belial

ITEMS
====== End ======


Penalties:
Marks (3 aoe, and a free action 1/turn).  -3.
Glowering threat (minor) = -5.
Second Wind (minor, recoverable with a 2 minors on seperate turns, requires mark) = -7
Undeniable Challenge = can't attack (requires mark).
*note that they all stack, though you probably want to spread them out.

Way's to disapear:
Void Assumption (minor, recharge with an AP).
Feywild Sojourn (move, can use second wind/wild shape while gone).
Shadow Jaunt (move).
Feywild Jaunt (move).
Ashfall Evasion (reaction, need to get hit).

An example battle will go...

1) Warrior's Urging->wild shape (second wind)->void assumption = burst 4, enemies are at -10 and slowed.
2) Wild shape (recover and use second wind)->Come and Get it->shadow jaunt = burst 3, enemies are at -10 and slowed.
3) Blood of Nature's Foes->glowing threat->fey wild sojourn = burst 2, enemies are at -8 and slowed.
4) At-Will->free mark->Undeniable challenge->Feywild Jaunt = 2 enemies can't attack.

Of course, depending on the number of enemies, you might want to alter the order (i.e use undeniable challenge against a solo on turn 1).


Completely item (and to-hit) independant.  And there's plenty of left over feats to play with (like expertise, improved defense, or durable).


It's also worth noteing that the paladin's mark doesn't require you to be anywhere nearby.  Not that this build takes advantage of it, but it could make a good alternitive (justicar PP also rocks).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

You know, it's funny, just yesterday I was trying to think of how I can use Void Assumption to benfit my team. I need to try this at some point.
Void defender.  Gives enemies a penalty for not attacking him.  Then promply goes away.



I think I can see a lot of DMs ruling against that given you have no line of effect...
Well, they ARE still marked.
Void defender.  Gives enemies a penalty for not attacking him.  Then promply goes away.



I think I can see a lot of DMs ruling against that given you have no line of effect...



Mark penalty is not dependent on line of effect.  Mark punishment is, sure, but not the penalty.

A marked target can't just run behind a wall to shake the mark.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
But can you mark something (or sustain a mark) if you don't exist? The power says you are removed from play and no longer exist. It's not a teleport, it's not a stealth effect, it's simply being gone.
But can you mark something (or sustain a mark) if you don't exist? The power says you are removed from play and no longer exist. It's not a teleport, it's not a stealth effect, it's simply being gone.

Mark's end when you die or fall unconcious.

That's it.

Also, feywild sojourn specificly let's you use second wind while gone.  So you can impose a heavier penalty from far away.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Void defender.  Gives enemies a penalty for not attacking him.  Then promply goes away.



I think I can see a lot of DMs ruling against that given you have no line of effect...



Mark penalty is not dependent on line of effect.  Mark punishment is, sure, but not the penalty.

A marked target can't just run behind a wall to shake the mark.



If we're going to be literal about it...what's a definition of being dead? Ceasing to exist. What does Removed From Play do? Makes you cease to exist.

Which removes the mark.
Keep Them Close is such an underrepresented feat, it's almost gold imo (at least sky-blue) for anything that marks repeatedly or has a very sticky mark(swordmage/battlemind, until the end of the encounter mark)......so almost every defender in the game. :D
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Mark lasts until you die or go unconscious as per compendium

Actually being dead means you are still there, just dead.  

Given the keywords importance of 4th edition, cease to exist does not equal dead nor vice versa, so your argument isn't valid.  

According to the rules, you have two conditions that can end mark, unless a specific power overrides this which none of the ones do I believe. 
Gunthar, in game mechanics, marks don't end because you no longer exist. As Mellored says, it ends when you're dead or unconscious (or once the encounter ends, but even wiping yourself from existence doesn't mean the fight is over).

In RP mechanics, I think of a mark as the idea that this target is most important.  Even if they've vanished, that enemy is still thinking, "crap, this guy will be back any second, I'm sure of it" and is as such distracted slightly in attacking other targets.

EDIT: Triple-answered!
Void defender.  Gives enemies a penalty for not attacking him.  Then promply goes away.



I think I can see a lot of DMs ruling against that given you have no line of effect...



Mark penalty is not dependent on line of effect.  Mark punishment is, sure, but not the penalty.

A marked target can't just run behind a wall to shake the mark.



If we're going to be literal about it...what's a definition of being dead? Ceasing to exist. What does Removed From Play do? Makes you cease to exist.

Which removes the mark.



No, being dead means you're at less than negative bloodied or have failed three death saving throws.  Being dead also means you're now an object.  You don't evaporate in a puff of smoke or anything.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Keep Them Close is such an underrepresented feat, it's almost gold imo (at least sky-blue) for anything that marks repeatedly or has a very sticky mark(swordmage/battlemind, until the end of the encounter mark)......so almost every defender in the game. :D

Most defenders stay next to their marks.  And most marks attack the defenders.

So it's only sky blue for those who mark at a distance.  Considering the somewhat steep cost of enterance.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

It's also very awesome for anyone who takes (or has a party member who takes) World Serpent's Grasp.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Given the keywords importance of 4th edition, cease to exist does not equal dead nor vice versa, so your argument isn't valid.  



Keywords importance in 4e? Sorry, haven't heard of a rule saying that Keywords were important.

So, yes, it is valid(or at least as valid as any other claim about literal RAW overriding obvious RAI) 
Given the keywords importance of 4th edition, cease to exist does not equal dead nor vice versa, so your argument isn't valid.  



Keywords importance in 4e? Sorry, haven't heard of a rule saying that Keywords were important.

So, yes, it is valid(or at least as valid as any other claim about literal RAW overriding obvious RAI) 



...seriously?  You're the one who's making up rules about what it means to be dead in D&D.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Gunthar, in game mechanics, marks don't end because you no longer exist. As Mellored says, it ends when you're dead or unconscious (or once the encounter ends, but even wiping yourself from existence doesn't mean the fight is over).



Hence the emoticon, though it is an interesting philosophical point of discussion. I've thought about it a bit and if someone were abusing it I MIGHT rule that since you cease to exist you can't mark something. I'll deal with that if/when it ever comes up though. As it is now it's simple and consistent.
Oh, marking something absolutely requires Line of Effect.  The act of applying the mark, I mean.  You can't mark someone while you're gone, but existing marks don't vanish.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Gods your right, keywords are meaningless.

So weapons don't require weapons anymore? or you can use a melee attack at range 40 with a bow?

The fact is that the game is pretty straightforward, conditions exist, dead is a condition, cease to exist is an effect that makes it so you don't have loe or los to anyone, as described by the scion of absence.  I don't see dead, I don't see unconscious.  So if you want to make up rules for a home game go ahead, but I don't think you can use false assumptions to justify your argument and make it valid.

Feywild sojourn says you aren't there you are in a safe place in the feywild.  Shadow jaunt makes you insubstantial.  So kinda half there.   
Feywild sojourn says you aren't there you are in a safe place in the feywild.  Shadow jaunt makes you insubstantial.  So kinda half there.   

Shadow Exile turns shadow jaunt into remove from play.




What i think i like most about this build, is that it's lazy.  I'm tempted to dump Str and get more Wis (and Con, for surges).  -12 to hit anyone?  Though that will kinda kill any low level use.

Anyone have more way's of recharging second wind?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'm tempted to dump Str and get more Wis (and Con, for surges).



What, exactly, are you expecting on using surges for?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Isn't he second-winding twice an encounter, or at least the first 2 rounds of combat?  That is what he needs surges for.
Ours is a world where people don't know what they want, and are willing to go through hell to get it. -Don Marquis
Do you have to spend the surge when you second wind?  Hmm..
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I think so...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Do you have to spend the surge when you second wind?  Hmm..



RC 248 says "the character spends a healing surge," not "the character can spend a healing surge," so it looks like you do have to.
Armor of Enduring Health grants an additional use of second wind.
I also believe you can dual manifest to include Embersoul. That should be another removed from play power you can use.
Armor of Enduring Health grants an additional use of second wind.

Could be useful, but i don't neccicaraly have enough surges to do it 3 times/enounter.  Unless i did the lazy build.  Still worth adding.

I also believe you can dual manifest to include Embersoul. That should be another removed from play power you can use.

Nice.  Thanks.

Edit: Not in the builder....

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

It is neither RAW nor RAI that RSFP effects end marks.



It's definitely not written as such but you could debate intention. It could be a positive and a negative because you simply don't exist, ie: your mark may become invalid but that barrier that blocks teleportation (see Scales of War Sarshan battle in the tower, for example) would not block the voidsoul from penetrating/bypassing.

I'm pretty sure that if they intended to have "Remove from game" work like "Death", they would've said so.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
Death isn't necessarily "removed from game" when you have Troll regeneration, Raise Dead rituals, etc. It's a corner case.
Usually when people make RAI arguments they have at least some rules justification for doing so, even if it's an interpretation.

You're basically just making this up because you think it makes sense, when the rules clearly don't agree with you.


Marked is a condition:


Marked

When a creature marks a target, the target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn’t include the marking creature as a target. A creature can be subjected to only one mark at a time, and a new mark supersedes an old one. A mark ends immediately when its creator dies or falls unconscious.




There are no general rules for removing conditions when whoever inflicted the condition is removed from play.  There is no specific exception in the Marked condition causing it to end when its creator is removed from play.  Therefore it does not end.

Ongoing 5 fire damage wouldn't be removed from a target when the creator is removed from play, either.  Nor even when the creator dies.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Death isn't necessarily "removed from game" when you have Troll regeneration, Raise Dead rituals, etc. It's a corner case.



Uhm, Trolls don't actually die if they still have regeneration and the Raise Dead ritual takes 8 hours to perform, well beyond the duration of any combat effect. Not to mention that certain conditions (like Marked) specifically mention that they end with Death of the creator, but not for anything else.

(Also Troll Healing is still worded poorly. The Troll can't "return to life" because it said just one line before that, that it doesn't die. Sheesh, how many attempts can one need to get it right?)
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
You're basically just making this up because you think it makes sense, when the rules clearly don't agree with you.



The Void Assumption power text states: You cease to exist and can take no actions until the start of your next turn. You have line of sight and line of effect to no creature, and no creature has line of sight or line of effect to you. At the start of your next turn, you reappear in the square of your choice within 3 squares of the square you left.


Can something that doesn't exist have something marked? Can something that doesn't exist have HP? If it doesn't have HP is that value 0?

Again, I'd go with the mark stays and works unless there was a deal-breaking issue that came out of it but I can see someone making a case that it wouldn't.
I love this plan. I've been pondering how to maximize the use of Void Soul and this may well be it. 

@Gunthar: The text is mainly fluff. Mechanically, you just vanish from the table. Hidden+ in some ways. From an in-universe perspective, the enemy has no idea what happened to you but you still rattled and shook them with your various effects. The marks and everything else still apply.  
Can something that doesn't exist have set something on fire?

Seriously, it's like you're intentionally ignoring counterarguments, despite selectively quoting posts that contained them.  Marked is a condition, like any other, except where it's not (removed on death or unconsciousness of the marker).

Someone "making a case" otherwise is using their personal feelings to do so, not the rules.  And in CharOp, we abide by the rules.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I love this plan. I've been pondering how to maximize the use of Void Soul and this may well be it. 

@Gunthar: The text is mainly fluff. Mechanically, you just vanish from the table. Hidden+ in some ways. From an in-universe perspective, the enemy has no idea what happened to you but you still rattled and shook them with your various effects. The marks and everything else still apply.  



This is my feling/interpretation also which is why I'd go with it.
Can something that doesn't exist have set something on fire?

Seriously, it's like you're intentionally ignoring counterarguments, despite selectively quoting posts that contained them.  Marked is a condition, like any other, except where it's not (removed on death or unconsciousness of the marker).

Someone "making a case" otherwise is using their personal feelings to do so, not the rules.  And in CharOp, we abide by the rules.




LoL, you mean there's only one way to interpret a written rule? Disband the Supreme Court and the entire Judicial System then.

I'm not disagreeing with how to run it if you read my posts but I am offering a counter to how it may be interpreted otherwise. Lighten up. There's no "one true way" to interpret written rules. The consensus on this board would follow the 'it still works' interpretation, which again, I agree with.
Lawyers and Lawmakers deliberately use confusing language to slip loopholes into words in order to manipulate them at a later date or for a specific purpose.  When something says A  =  B its pretty straightforward.   If they instead If A, then B.  This is also rather direct.   If the person marking the target dies or becomes unconscious (A) then the mark ends (B).  Since removed from play does not equal A then B does not occur.  

Now if Removed from play said, you are considered dead while you don' exist.  Or if the power said marks or other effects on creatures end or even if mark said you must maintain line of sight or effect to target or the marks ends, then these arguments would be valid in this context.  Since they don't the argument becomes a simple, If A then B. 
This is ridiculous.  RAW is clear.  Appealing to the generic idea that English can be ambiguous does nothing.
Remove from play=/=dead or unconcious
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