Dragon 403 - Stange Constellations. Conlocks get some love!

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Here's the link to the article.

This article seems like it's in the mold of pre-essentials, with fluff and crunch separated. All the powers in this article are Con-based, with riders for Star Pact Warlocks.

Overall okay, but I was honestly expecting more in it. 

A list of CharOp Handbooks I'm currently updating:

Heart of the Dragon: A Dragonborn's Handbook

Infernal Wrath: A Tiefling's Handbook

Here's the link to the article.

This article seems like it's in the mold of pre-essentials, with fluff and crunch separated. All the powers in this article are Con-based, with riders for Star Pact Warlocks.

Overall okay, but I was honestly expecting more in it. 



My feelings too. I find the early ranged 5 powers odd, especially since the first hits for a measly 2d6, making it exceedingly useless if you arent a starlock.
Useless seems to be their specialty for the last year and a bit.
Well, that's great, now Con-locks have extra support for their role of Controller/Sub-Leader.

Shame though, I heard there was this really cool striker class that was goin to get a buff this month. I wonder where that article went.

Edit: I do give them props for having the balls to write a 12d10 power. Becuase no one in their right mind is not going to set the little bugger of an enemy back on the ground. I also think this may by RAW circumvet the hindering terrain saving throw rule, since your not teleporting them at all, but removing and putting them back in play.
I am a: Lawful Good Dragonborn Paladin
12d10, huh? Which power is that?
This article gives another excellent tool for warlocks to teleport monsters into space, with the added advantage that its an encounter, so the cosmonaut can watch the creature re-enter the atmosphere from an elevated position.
This article gives another excellent tool for warlocks to teleport monsters into space, with the added advantage that its an encounter, so the cosmonaut can watch the creature re-enter the atmosphere from an elevated position.



ya too bad its level 27, if it was 13 or 17 it would be amazing, at 27 its good but not amazing
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
So because that is not a teleport I assume that the enemy would not get a save either.
Oh right, the faux-teleport. I was actually bored out of my brain by the end of page 3 and only skimread page 4. But hmm, yeah. That 27's a very nice damage AND control power.
I rather like Worms. WORMS
Is there a typo that's been corrected, or am I seeing something wrong? I'm reading 2d10, not 12d10.

Edit: Oh.



Oh.
That's fun.
The low level powers are quite underwhelming.
The Daily is not bad. Fair damage and control. Good news for all CON-locks because there was a severe lack in decent CON powers at level 19.
And a 12d10 power is a winner in my book.
Range 5 is... disappointing. A certain warlock I know would be up in arms about it. He already finds it hard to swallow that ranged attackers with bows and crossbows have much better range. Even the hungry greatspear fighter can chuck his spear up to 20 squares, while the warlock twiddles his thumbs when targets are too far. Giving us more powers with range 5 is not cool. They need to go the other direction, range 15 or 20 would almost make more fluff sense for the star pact even... you know... stars... distant.

I think Elder Constellation is good enough for a level 7 power. Swap the soldier in front with the ranged controller in the back and they both grant CA? Sure, why not... It's a solid power. Use it when you have a bonus to hit, which isn't hard for a star pact.

Sadly, I'm guessing the 20 square fall on the level 27 power is uninteded, but it does actually make the power good.

I don't like the "you regain hit points" powers. Doesn't seem like enough hit points to matter at any given level.
What rider stat do Con Locks Use?  The idea of the Star Pact sounds good to me on paper, but I'm not subbed (yet). 

and...Worms? Do I want to know? ... 
Sadly, I'm guessing the 20 square fall on the level 27 power is uninteded, but it does actually make the power good.



Removed from play is always a strong effect - most Elites/Solos can't get rid of it. Vecna goes bye-bye while you finish off his friends as an example. But...

The falling part sounds completely situational. At that level in Epic, the DM ought to be expecting that some PCs will fly at will, which leads to 3 basic scenarios:
Melee opponents with reach or ranged opponents with range = height of room, which will often mean no significant fall.
Opponents that can fly
Ways to force flying PCs back down to the ground.

Only the 3rd scenario naturally leads to falling as a strong option.
Warlocks. Now you're thinking with portals!™
I congratulate this article on not being quite the slap in the face for Infernal Locks that their Cha based article was.
This was one article that almost made me want to keep my sub for another month. Sounds like letting it lapse was a good call.
The falling part sounds completely situational.

Yes, that's very true. A lot of monsters fly, a lot of environments have lower ceilings, etc. But I'd find it a worthwhile tool for the times it does apply. And even when the ceiling is low, prone at the feet of the defender is never a bad thing.

This was one article that almost made me want to keep my sub for another month. Sounds like letting it lapse was a good call.



Apparently I'm in the minority, I think it's a perfectly fine article.  There are other parts of the game besides CO: story, for instance.   This article has some fun fluff, which I know our DM will eat up since our major campaign arc is fighting a Far Realm invasion.  The powers are very flavorful, with some highlights:

- Level 27 Grasp of Ragnorra: even if the 20-square drop gets nerfed, it's still a highly useful encounter power.  Banishing someone and then putting them back into play anywhere you want is fantastic.  "Oh, hello again, meet my rogue and fighter and who are now flanking you. Btw, we killed your buddies while you were gone, so you're getting our focussed fire now."

- Level 19 Malicious Guide Star: 4d10 radiant is nothing to sneeze at, and the sustainable burst 1 aura effect is great, which makes target and any adjacent enemy grant CA.  Target can't deactivate it, so for a minor action my Rogue can now solo backstab anyone.  Free teleporting of anyone in aura, including target, is great additional control.

- Level 3 and 17: Healing is unusual for warlock powers, these are interesting options.  It's actual free HP gain, not THP, letting healer focus on others.  At level 3, 3+Int mod is almost a surge.

- Level 13 Maw of Atropus: 3d12 is respectable damage, and -Int to Fort rider is incredibly useful for a Conlock.

- Level 7 Elder Constellation: dual target frostcheez + targets grant CA + effect teleporting = I'm sure I could find a use for that every encounter.

- Level 3 Worms: who doesn't want to say "I hit that guy with Worms"? lol

I think people tend to forget that while Strikers are supposed to deal lots of damage, there are more ways of doing that then "I hit for 94 damage at level 2".  Warlocks have always had a very strong Controller sub-theme.  Powers like Frigid Darkness are striker gold; at level 15, it's still one of my workhorse powers.  While I may only be doing 2d8+mods on my turn, the fact that I can give every single other party member CA and a +8 to hit AC is amazing.  All I have to say is "you know it, you love it, here comes the Darkness" and my DM starts crying while my Rogue, Ranger, and Fighter start looking for their dailies and APs.  My "measly" 2d8 ends up causing far more damage than any one of us is capable of dealing on our own.

So when I see a power like the level 23 Pandorym's Prison, I'm not inclined to write it off because it "only" does 2d6 damage.  When the elite brute is suddenly forced to make a basic attack (melee and ranged both count) against his buddy, he's dealing off-turn damage/effects for us.  Whether I make the hit or he does, it's still DPR for our side.  And that = win in my book.
Sadly, I'm guessing the 20 square fall on the level 27 power is uninteded, but it does actually make the power good.



Removed from play is always a strong effect - most Elites/Solos can't get rid of it. Vecna goes bye-bye while you finish off his friends as an example. But...

The falling part sounds completely situational. At that level in Epic, the DM ought to be expecting that some PCs will fly at will, which leads to 3 basic scenarios:
Melee opponents with reach or ranged opponents with range = height of room, which will often mean no significant fall.
Opponents that can fly
Ways to force flying PCs back down to the ground.

Only the 3rd scenario naturally leads to falling as a strong option.


It's relatively easy to force flying enemies to take falling damage - you just slow them first.  Then, they fall their 2-square fly speed, and thereafter, take falling damage as normal until the high altitude rules come into effect.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Range 5 is... disappointing. A certain warlock I know would be up in arms about it. He already finds it hard to swallow that ranged attackers with bows and crossbows have much better range. Even the hungry greatspear fighter can chuck his spear up to 20 squares, while the warlock twiddles his thumbs when targets are too far. Giving us more powers with range 5 is not cool. They need to go the other direction, range 15 or 20 would almost make more fluff sense for the star pact even... you know... stars... distant.

I think Elder Constellation is good enough for a level 7 power. Swap the soldier in front with the ranged controller in the back and they both grant CA? Sure, why not... It's a solid power. Use it when you have a bonus to hit, which isn't hard for a star pact.

Sadly, I'm guessing the 20 square fall on the level 27 power is uninteded, but it does actually make the power good.

I don't like the "you regain hit points" powers. Doesn't seem like enough hit points to matter at any given level.

+1 about the range. really... bow users get range 20/40, even spear users get 20, and this maxes out at 5 or 10? for some folks, this may not be a big deal, but better than 50% of the combats that I've been in over the last 10 levels have engaged at over 20.
Sadly, I'm guessing the 20 square fall on the level 27 power is uninteded, but it does actually make the power good.



Removed from play is always a strong effect - most Elites/Solos can't get rid of it. Vecna goes bye-bye while you finish off his friends as an example. But...

The falling part sounds completely situational. At that level in Epic, the DM ought to be expecting that some PCs will fly at will, which leads to 3 basic scenarios:
Melee opponents with reach or ranged opponents with range = height of room, which will often mean no significant fall.
Opponents that can fly
Ways to force flying PCs back down to the ground.

Only the 3rd scenario naturally leads to falling as a strong option.


It's relatively easy to force flying enemies to take falling damage - you just slow them first.  Then, they fall their 2-square fly speed, and thereafter, take falling damage as normal until the high altitude rules come into effect.



Not any more.  Flyers only fall when prone now, (unless they can hover.)
world serpent's grasp.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
world serpent's grasp.

Yes, so 3 turns from now you can knock it prone. Turn 1 you banish it, end of your turn two it appears in the air, turn three, you hit it with something that slows, turn 4 you hit it and it's knocked prone. Doesn't seem like a feasible tactic, unless it's your party members who are doing it.
It probably is then.

Bear in mind, I've not actually seen the power, so I'm onyl working off what's in this thread.  Still, it sounds cool, and that's what counts.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
world serpent's grasp.

Yes, so 3 turns from now you can knock it prone. Turn 1 you banish it, end of your turn two it appears in the air, turn three, you hit it with something that slows, turn 4 you hit it and it's knocked prone. Doesn't seem like a feasible tactic, unless it's your party members who are doing it.



useing world surpent to prone targets by yourself is doing but hard, doing it with a party made around it is amazing. all you need is one person that slows at will, and another that has world surpent.

at-will prone is surprisingly powerfull.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
After seeing this article, I'm wondering if Dual Pact is in order for my Hell'lock when I reach the appropriate level. That being said, I currently use an Ashen Rod as a Superior Implement- were I to Dual Pact, I'd retrain it to an Accurate Rod...what do you guys think, is it worth it?
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63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Powers like Frigid Darkness are striker gold; at level 15, it's still one of my workhorse powers.  While I may only be doing 2d8+mods on my turn, the fact that I can give every single other party member CA and a +8 to hit AC is amazing.  All I have to say is "you know it, you love it, here comes the Darkness" and my DM starts crying while my Rogue, Ranger, and Fighter start looking for their dailies and APs.  My "measly" 2d8 ends up causing far more damage than any one of us is capable of dealing on our own.


Cry Now I know why the Warlock Update didn't make Frigid Darkness CHR or CON  Cry " said the CHR'Lock.

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This was one article that almost made me want to keep my sub for another month. Sounds like letting it lapse was a good call.



Apparently I'm in the minority, I think it's a perfectly fine article.  There are other parts of the game besides CO: story, for instance.   This article has some fun fluff, which I know our DM will eat up since our major campaign arc is fighting a Far Realm invasion.

You're not in the minority, you're just in the wrong forum for this kind of comment.  This is the CO forum, story is as relevant here as being able to do infinity DPR all day is in the Character Development forum.


I think people tend to forget that while Strikers are supposed to deal lots of damage, there are more ways of doing that then "I hit for 94 damage at level 2".  Warlocks have always had a very strong Controller sub-theme.  Powers like Frigid Darkness are striker gold; at level 15, it's still one of my workhorse powers.  While I may only be doing 2d8+mods on my turn, the fact that I can give every single other party member CA and a +8 to hit AC is amazing.  All I have to say is "you know it, you love it, here comes the Darkness" and my DM starts crying while my Rogue, Ranger, and Fighter start looking for their dailies and APs.  My "measly" 2d8 ends up causing far more damage than any one of us is capable of dealing on our own.


I think you're forgetting what "Striker" means.  It doesn't mean causing a target to grant CA or take a penalty to defenses, that's Controller/Leader.  That doesn't mean it's not great for an Implement based Striker, that just means it's not a Striker power for you.  I berate defender's that don't either have multiple self-heals or a reliable ally heal other than the skill; "But I'm not a Leader" they say, "You're also not a Controller or a Striker, so why are you hitting multiple times per round and causing attack penalties?" I'll reply.

In regards to this article, and my opinions, Warlocks desperately need Striker powers, not more pseudo-control, not more defender-esque survivability, Striker powers.  Which brings me to what you think is a Striker Power.
So when I see a power like the level 23 Pandorym's Prison, I'm not inclined to write it off because it "only" does 2d6 damage.  When the elite brute is suddenly forced to make a basic attack (melee and ranged both count) against his buddy, he's dealing off-turn damage/effects for us.  Whether I make the hit or he does, it's still DPR for our side.  And that = win in my book.


Lets take a look at a level 25 Brute (something you have a decent chance of facing at level 23).  Lolth's Reaver does 3d10+5 and ongoing 20 and hits itself on a 7, this gives us an average of about 30 damage.
Lets compare to Hellish Rebuke, the "cannon" of the warlock class.  Exact same base damage, so the only thing to compare is the 30 from the forced attack vs 2d6 (7) +Con (8) +Enh (5) +Feat (3) +Shard (5) +Item (5) = 33.
I don't even need to go into DiS, Vulnerability Cheese, or any other "I'm a Tiefling/Genasi so I'm awesome" stuff, heck, Wizard's Mass Charm/Charm of False Glory is better than this power and 6 levels lower, so this is fairly clearly a bad striker power.  It doesn't cause any condition other than -Will if you're Star Pact (which, admittedly isn't the worst thing I've seen), so unless your target has an MBA that causes a significant condition (daze, immobilize, -3 surges) then you were better off using Hellish Rebuke in terms of Damage.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Lets take a look at a level 25 Brute (something you have a decent chance of facing at level 23).  Lolth's Reaver does 3d10+5 and ongoing 20 and hits itself on a 7, this gives us an average of about 30 damage.



 Additionally, if the monster has an RBA you can force it to draw an OA from every adjacent ally, which is going to end up netting more damage than Hellish Rebuke if you have an ally or two with good OAs and some positioning.  Still doesn't make it good as a high level striker encounter power, of course, but you're underestimating its potential.
...
- Level 3 and 17: Healing is unusual for warlock powers, these are interesting options.  It's actual free HP gain, not THP, letting healer focus on others.  At level 3, 3+Int mod is almost a surge.




People have already responsed to the other stuff in Rils post, I just wanted to express my disappointment in a meager healing rider for a Con'based Warlock. That level 3 likely gives you 6 HP as a rider? Yay?

Or a defender who has the creature marked, because then he'll get both an OA and his II!!zomg!

I'm more than aware of the potential, tyvm, there's other warlock powers that do similar things and are just better.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Can we not just get a blanket errata adding one die of damage to every warlock encounter and daily power at this point?

I mean really, it's stopped being funny. 


I mean really, it's stopped being funny. 



There was a point where it was funny?
Can we not just get a blanket errata adding one die of damage to every warlock encounter and daily power at this point?

I mean really, it's stopped being funny. 


Swordmages second this, and want in on it!
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Swordmages second this, and want in on it!

Sword-Mages aren't supposed to be Strikers.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
for the level 27 power, if you did put him 20 squares straight up would the creature get a saving throw to prevent it and instead fall prone like they do if you were to try to Teleport it there?  Or since it has already been removed from play would you be able to put it there freely and let it fall?
This is not a teleport, so that rule does not apply.  It's hard to imagine what you would save against:

 - being removed?  No, because there's absolutely no reason to have a save if you're put back on the ground
 - coming back?  Er, maybe, but after you succeed now what?  You don't come back?  What then?  Wait until you fail your saving throw?  That'd be sweet.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
After seeing this article, I'm wondering if Dual Pact is in order for my Hell'lock when I reach the appropriate level. That being said, I currently use an Ashen Rod as a Superior Implement- were I to Dual Pact, I'd retrain it to an Accurate Rod...what do you guys think, is it worth it?



Bump?
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
for the level 27 power, if you did put him 20 squares straight up would the creature get a saving throw to prevent it and instead fall prone like they do if you were to try to Teleport it there?  Or since it has already been removed from play would you be able to put it there freely and let it fall?


You also don't fall prone if you make the saving throw to resist a teleport, teleporting isn't forced movement so it doesn't follow the same rules.

Creatures goes where you want with this power, I don't even think it has to be within LoE of you (Hello solid object!)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.