This Character's Absurd, but Is It Playable?

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So, I came up with . . . well, not really a backup character (there are several other characters on this list before this one, if my current one croaks), but just because it leapt into my brain, pretty much. The idea was to make as un-Rangerly a Ranger as possible while piling enough baseline effects onto your attacks to make the Seeker actually contribute something. Is it original? Hell no, the PHB3 actually tells you flat-out that "The best hybrid combination for [Seeker] is Ranger/Seeker," so it's not like I'm breaking new ground. Still, I feel like I'm doing it in an especially perverse (and probably quite roundabout) way.

Assumptions:
-Level 12. This really isn't a backup character, but it's a habit of mine to make my characters at the level of my current game.
-No Mark of Storm. I love it to pieces, but I want to challenge myself to make a controller build (for such this is) without relying on it.
-Generic +3 items (no specific enchantments). My actual game is pretty free with items, but I wanted to prove to myself that I don't NEED specific enchantments to make a build. (Plus, I'm lazy.)
-All characters get the relevant Expertise for free. This is the standing rule at my table, and as with the starting level, I tend to keep the same background assumptions when I make characters just for fun.

Anyway, here's what I've got. Oh, and the order in which the feats are taken is pretty much random, since I didn't design this character with level 1 in mind. (It MIGHT be playable at level 1 if you shuffle the feats, but I've made no specific effort to make it so.)

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Level 12 Hybrid Seeker|Ranger, Traveler's Harlequin


Human (bump to WIS)


Hybrid Seeker's Bond: Um, Bloodbond I guess? Not terribly relevant at this level.


Background: Training in Bluff


 


Stats:


STR 10 + 1 = 11


DEX 16 + 3 = 19


CON 12 + 1 = 13


INT 12 + 1 = 13


WIS 16 + 5 = 21


CHA 8 + 1 = 9


 


Skills:


Ranger: Acrobatics


Human: Bluff


1: Nature


2: Perception


3: Stealth


Psion: Dungeoneering


Fighter: Athletics


 


Feats:


Bonus: Master at Arms (+1/2/3 with all weapons, draw/stow as minor 1/rd)


Human: Bola Training (Proficient w/bolas, can immobilize instead of damage; prone on crit)


1: Archery Mastery (swap Ranger at-will for Clever Shot)


2: Vicious Advantage (CA vs. slowed/immobilized targets)


4: Grounding Shot (No penalty to hit prone targets at range; +2 dmg when doing so)


6: World Serpent's Grasp (Can knock slowed/immobilized targets prone)


8: Whatever, retrain to Controlling Advantage at 12 (Increase forced movement vs. target granting you CA by 1)


10: Whatever, retrain to Dragging Flail at level 11 (Slide enemy 1 when you knock them prone with a flail)


11: Brawling Warrior or whatever MC Fighter (MC Fighter; training in Athletics, marginal other benefits)


11 (TH Bonus): Disciplined Talent (MC Psion; training in Dungeoneering, Static Mote 1/enc)


12: Distant Shot (no penalty for long-range attacks)


 


Powers:


A1: Grappling Spirits (Seeker 1, RBA)


A1: Biting Swarm (Seeker 1, RBA)


A1: Clever Shot (Ranger 1, uses RBAs)


E1: Mischief Spirits (Seeker 1, RBA)


D1: Swarming Bats (Seeker 1); retrain to Guardian Arrow (Ranger 1, uses RBAs) at 9


U2: Stalker's Mist (Ranger 2)


E3: Fox's Cunning (Ranger 1, uses RBAs)


D5: Spitting-Cobra Stance (Ranger 5, uses RBAs)


U6: Earthbond Gift (Seeker 6)


E7: Feyjump Shot (Seeker 7)


D9: Nature's Vengeance (Seeker 9)


U10: Hunter's Thorn Trap (Ranger 10)


E11: Traveler's Mummery (Traveler's Harlequin 11)


U12: Shape of the Traveler (Traveler's Harlequin 12)


 


Defenses (assuming +3 but otherwise nonspecific gear):


HP: 80 (40 bloodied, 20 surge)


Surges: 7 (eep!)


AC: 25 [10 + 6 (level) + 4 (DEX) + 2 (leather) + 3 (enhancement)]


Fort: 22 [10 + 6 (level) + 1 (CON) + 1 (race) + 1 (Ranger) + 3 (enhancement)]


Ref: 25 [10 + 6 (level) + 4 (DEX) + 1 (race) + 1 (Seeker) + 1 (MW leather) + 3 (enhancement)]


Will: 24 [10 + 6 (level) + 5 (WIS) + 1 (race) + 3 (enhancement)]


 


To-hit: +18 [6 (level) + 2 (prof) + 5 (WIS) + 3 (enhancement) + 2 (expertise]


 


Basic strategy:


All your attacks can, at your option, immobilize instead of doing damage. We'll be utilizing this effect quite often.


Any RBAs you make on your turn will be through Clever Shot, thereby either sliding 2 (possibly +1), knocking prone, or slowing (save ends) on a hit, in addition to their other effects.


Your at-will RBAs can either slow and prevent shifting (Grappling Spirits) or deal a –2 attack penalty in an AoE (Biting Swarm).


When you hit a slowed or immobilized target, you can knock it prone.


When you knock someone prone, you can slide them 1 square (or 2, if they're granting CA, which they probably are).


Your Ranger powers let you make more RBAs, usually off-turn.


Feyjump Shot isn't an RBA, but it's cool enough to have it anyway. If you wanted to swap in another RBA instead, I like Winter Spirit more than Wasp Sting Shot, but at least WSS gives you some minor minion-clearing power.


 


So, anyway, the defenses are obviously pretty poor. There are several feats which I obviously want (in no particular order, it would be nice to have Far Throw [note: this would require slightly shuffling the stats], Improved Defenses, Battle Caster Defense, and Hybrid Talent for True Seeker's Bond . . . oh, and maybe Strengthened Bond, since it's a way around the 1/day limit on the Hybrid version of Seeker's Bond), but I'm already going human and getting a bonus from my PP, so there's only so much I can do about that. There's only so many ways to pick up bonus feats, after all.


 


Anyway, this is an attempt to use Ranger to make Seeker a little better. I admit that I take a perverse delight in using such an amazingly low-damage option as the bolas on a character who's technically a Ranger (yes, I love the bolas, despite their flaws). It's a bit of a shame that I can't trade Hunter's Quarry out for something, because I can only use it with a single attack, and a daily at that (Guardian Arrow). Of course, if I COULD use it, I'd just take Staggering Strike and/or Hobbling Strike to trade it right back out again, but hey, those would be even more control effects! This build is very much not a striker, and it is in no way trying to be.


If I gave myself free pick of items, I'd probably focus on shoring up my defenses . . . and a Distance weapon seems like a no-brainer (cheap, common, and really helps with the range issue).


So, overall, what do you think? This build's shortcomings are pretty obvious (not the least of which being that it's unnecessarily complex . . . but that tends to happen on characters I create), but are its strengths enough to make up for those shortcomings? Could it be done better with another class combination? Is there a way to get both Clever Shot and Rapid Shot while keeping two Seeker at-wills? Is this the least damage-oriented Ranger ever? How will our heroes make it out of this one? Tune in next week for—er, wait, lost myself there. Anyway, thoughts?

It looks fun, but I don't understand why you're half ranger. Couldn't you make this build with just the seeker?
this is a easy houserule to make but by RAW you cant take advantage of the fighter feat with clever shot, clever shot is what prones and it lacks the weapon keyword.


have you considered net training instead of bola? doing some damage is better then none, and slow can be just as bad as immoblize.

if you do go net training then all your attacks do normal damage but also slow. with clever shot and Biting Swarm your basic slows, slides or prones (maybe both), and gives a -2 to attack rolls. that is good contorol right there.

you should also consider staggering smash, push one when you daze or stun a target with a primal power. and then get distracting shot. (and gloves of the ram if you can) so your two encounter daze powers both slow, and push one (or more).

have you though about
entagling roots for your ranger utility power? area burst 2 friendly difficult terain is very good, put that in front of a slowed enemy and he has to run to go 2 squares, and you can slide him back through it on your next turn.

do you really need grounding shot? I know you will knock prone often but creatures will stand up on there turn, you can take something else unless someone else also knocks prone.

and if you want you can go spiritbond then take the hybrid talant for it to gain +1 hit with thrown weapons, if not then stay bloodbond so you can shift more with distracting shot.

personaly I would not take any ranger powers that have attack rolls, just so you dont have to split stat. every ranger power can enable a seeker power, if it was not for AC and init you could dump dex on this build and be fine.

as far as distant shots goes there are two alteritives to it, the first is
Eagle's Aim a level 6 seeker at will utlity, that as a minor action lets you ignore the long range penalty untill the end of your next turn. the other is using a long range bola/net (in the new item book) common starts at level 2 that increases your long range by 10 and lets you ignore the long range penalty.

Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
It looks fun, but I don't understand why you're half ranger. Couldn't you make this build with just the seeker?



he has to have a ranger at will to trade for clever shot, so its either hybrid ranger or be a half elf.

besides you dont lose much hybriding seeker, only +1 hit from spritbond and the ranger has good utiltys and dailys that dont require you have dex to be good at them


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by the way I currently play a seeker|ranger/net in LFR, he is very effective and very fun
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
It looks fun, but I don't understand why you're half ranger. Couldn't you make this build with just the seeker?



Looks like captpike already got to this, but yeah, I didn't want to be a half-elf or PMC Ranger, and I wanted Clever Shot.

this is a easy houserule to make but by RAW you cant take advantage of the fighter feat with clever shot, clever shot is what prones and it lacks the weapon keyword.



That . . . seems dubious to me. I view Clever Shot as basically being feats in power form, in that it modifies an existing attack (that very much does have the weapon keyword). Would you say that feats that require a weapon attack don't apply when my hypothetical Shaman buddy grants me a basic attack, since technically Spirit Infusion or Spirit's Prey don't have the weapon keyword?


have you considered net training instead of bola? doing some damage is better then none, and slow can be just as bad as immoblize.



I've already played a Net Training character, and my current character is also pretty slow-heavy. I like the bolas since they really lock down enemies much worse than a net does (you have to move a slowed target five squares away from your allies before they can't reach them on a charge, after all, while you only have to move them one square if they're immobilized—though I'm well aware of how prone and other effects shift the balance), and since I've got slowing effects from Grappling Spirits and Clever Shot, I can mix it up and do some damage when I need to. I admit, I'm also just tickled with the perversity of voluntarily sacking all your damage on a Ranger, and hey, the control's damn good.

if you do go net training then all your attacks do normal damage but also slow. with clever shot and Biting Swarm your basic slows, slides or prones (maybe both), and gives a -2 to attack rolls. that is good contorol right there.



Yup. Of course, if they're already immobilized or slowed, pretty much the same thing will happen with the setup I've got right now, but that's pretty much one of the basic combos.

you should also consider staggering smash, push one when you daze or stun a target with a primal power. and then get distracting shot. (and gloves of the ram if you can) so your two encounter daze powers both slow, and push one (or more).



Disruptive Shot takes another feat, which I'm sorely lacking (and it's ever so slightly less accurate, since it's DEX-based, but that's not the end of the world). It might be worth squeezing the feats in somewhere, though. I guess technically I could take them instead of Disciplined Talent and Controlling Advantage, but I kinda like having Controlling Advantage in there. Oh, and Disruptive Shot is Martial, not Primal, so Staggering Smash won't work.

have you though about entagling roots for your ranger utility power? area burst 2 friendly difficult terain is very good, put that in front of a slowed enemy and he has to run to go 2 squares, and you can slide him back through it on your next turn.



Yeah, it was either that or Stalker's Mist. I eventually went with Stalker's Mist because I already have enough ways to mess with melee foes (what with my slows, immobilizes, slides, and/or trips), and Stalker's Mist gives me a way to harass ranged enemies as well.

do you really need grounding shot? I know you will knock prone often but creatures will stand up on there turn, you can take something else unless someone else also knocks prone.



Don't forget that I've got a lot of ways to get off-turn attacks, so they might still be prone from my turn . . . or my off-turn attacks might knock them prone, so they'll be prone when my turn rolls around. That was pretty much what I had in mind.

and if you want you can go spiritbond then take the hybrid talant for it to gain +1 hit with thrown weapons, if not then stay bloodbond so you can shift more with distracting shot.



I'm not sure what your comment about Distracting Shot means in this case, but yeah, the Seeker's Bond is pretty much a non-issue until I find a feat for Hybrid Talent. I'm not married to either at this point.

personaly I would not take any ranger powers that have attack rolls, just so you dont have to split stat. every ranger power can enable a seeker power, if it was not for AC and init you could dump dex on this build and be fine.



That's already the case. My only Ranger power that has an attack roll is Guardian Arrow, and I'm more interested in the Effect line than in what happens when I hit. That said, my AC's gotta come from somewhere, and DEX doesn't cost a feat to give it to me . . . not to mention that initiative is pretty important. Oh, and I need 15 DEX for Dragging Flail anyway, so going DEX-heavy is pretty much a no-brainer on this character. I don't really see what I'd take instead (maybe CON, just for survivability? Eh).

as far as distant shots goes there are two alteritives to it, the first is
Eagle's Aim a level 6 seeker at will utlity, that as a minor action lets you ignore the long range penalty untill the end of your next turn. the other is using a long range bola/net (in the new item book) common starts at level 2 that increases your long range by 10 and lets you ignore the long range penalty.


Huh. Did they errata Eagle's Aim? My copy of PHB3 has it as an encounter power, which isn't really a solution (though it's not like I'm really attached to Earthbond Gift). The item is nice, and if I weren't trying to make the build item-independent, I'd totally go for it.

I prefer Seeker|Executioner. Hybrid Talent True Seeker's Bond, play human, and take the Foamgather Heritage feats for yet another boost to nets.



As I've kinda hinted, I've already played a Foamgather Warrior net-user, and while it was fun, I'm trying to branch out a little bit.

Anyway, I appreciate the feedback!


this is a easy houserule to make but by RAW you cant take advantage of the fighter feat with clever shot, clever shot is what prones and it lacks the weapon keyword.



That . . . seems dubious to me. I view Clever Shot as basically being feats in power form, in that it modifies an existing attack (that very much does have the weapon keyword). Would you say that feats that require a weapon attack don't apply when my hypothetical Shaman buddy grants me a basic attack, since technically Spirit Infusion or Spirit's Prey don't have the weapon keyword?


Dragging Flail doesn't require the weapon keyword, so you're fine.

For the sake of argument, I believe he's right that clever shot wouldn't benefit from feats worded like Crippling Crush (When you immobilize or slow an enemy with a weapon attack)
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
sorry about that I meant


Escaping Shot

Brandishing your weapon, you call forth spirits to stupefy your enemy.


Encounter        Primal, Psychic, Weapon
Standard Action      Ranged weapon


Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Will
Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier psychic damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.
Effect: You shift 1 square.
  Bloodbond: The number of squares you shift equals your Dexterity modifier.
Special: Making this attack doesn’t provoke an opportunity attack from the target.
---------------

first this is RAW, and this kind of thing is very easy to houserule.


the reason Dragging Flail does not work with clever shot is that Dragging Flail requires you use a flail to knock the target prone, clever shot does not use a weapon (or a implement for that matter) so you are not using a flail to prone the target.

clever shot knocks the target prone, true it only happens if you hit with your ranged basic but clever shot, not the ranged basic is what is doing it.

I suspect that it was done that was on purpose so you cant easily increase the slide, or gain other benifits that require keywords, or require you to hit with the weapon (staggering weapon for one would be amazing if clever shot had the weapon keyword)


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yes eagles aim was changed to at will a month or two ago, it is updated on the CB and compendium I believe (that gives me hope, maybe false but still hope, that they think of seekers every now and then)


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as far as dex, I dont disagree, but you might want strengh just for Wind Spirits (lv 13), something to consider, it is a amazing power. but otherwise yes might as well get high dex








Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
Wind Spirits... amazing power



When people come to ask questions, it's not polite to blatantly **** with them.



I guess I should have said its an amazing power for a net training or bola training build, in a area burst 1 you push every enemy away, slow/imoblized them and prone them.

its one of those powers good enough to reserve manuver for so you can keep both your encounter daze powers and this.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
By which erachima means, Wind Spirits is a thoroughly mediocre power, it just stands out among a field of really awful Seeker encounter powers.

In general, this is a pretty decent Seeker|Ranger. You should go through the power list and weed out the powers that are rated poorly in the Seeker handbook.

I don't think MC Psion+Controlling Advantage is a good idea, since Adroit Explorer could make you a much better Controller while Traveler's Harlequin does not, but if you do it remember to make use of your orb proficiency by golf-bagging a few orbs with Daily "BBEG fails his save" powers.
By which erachima means, Wind Spirits is a thoroughly mediocre power, it just stands out among a field of really awful Seeker encounter powers.

In general, this is a pretty decent Seeker|Ranger. You should go through the power list and weed out the powers that are rated poorly in the Seeker handbook.

I don't think MC Psion+Controlling Advantage is a good idea, since Adroit Explorer could make you a much better Controller while Traveler's Harlequin does not, but if you do it remember to make use of your orb proficiency by golf-bagging a few orbs with Daily "BBEG fails his save" powers.



true, which is kind of depressing, thought the power is good for this build.

Adroit Explorer is good for the build, a good action point benifit, and you can get two feyjump shots, that means you can daze/push/immoblized 4 targets when you have a action point, then do another target the next turn.
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
By which erachima means, Wind Spirits is a thoroughly mediocre power, it just stands out among a field of really awful Seeker encounter powers.

In general, this is a pretty decent Seeker|Ranger. You should go through the power list and weed out the powers that are rated poorly in the Seeker handbook.

I don't think MC Psion+Controlling Advantage is a good idea, since Adroit Explorer could make you a much better Controller while Traveler's Harlequin does not, but if you do it remember to make use of your orb proficiency by golf-bagging a few orbs with Daily "BBEG fails his save" powers.



Controlling Advantage might not be worth the feat and PP on its own, but since Traveler's Harlequin lets me get the Fighter MC (and Dragging Flail) anyway, I think it adds nicely to it. I wouldn't have taken TH just for Controlling Advantage, but since it lets you branch out while still keeping the bola MC feat (which is kind of a cornerstone of the build) . . . yeah. Not that Adroit Explorer isn't awesome, of course, but it's not like Seeker encounter powers are anything to write home about. There's a reason I spent so much effort bringing the baseline up (that is, getting effects that apply to all or almost all of my attacks) . . . when you're already immobilizing and proning and sliding and whatever, anything else you stack on is just gravy.

As for powers rated poorly in the Seeker handbook (that's yours, isn't it? Kudos, by the way . . . handbookin' isn't easy), the only one I have that's red is Mischief Spirits, and I took it just because it's an RBA (and I have to have SOME Seeker powers). In fact, for a long time, it's the RBA that offers the most control (and that's terrible, admittedly, but there you have it), at least for this build, since I'm already immobilizing (making Winter Spirit redundant, though I guess it could be good for targeting Fort 1/enc). Of course, if you're already knocking them prone (through Clever Shot or WSG), it's marginally better, since even standing and charging will end them prone and next to your friends. Sure, it's not a superb power, but it's the best of a few bad options. Story of the Seeker's life, right? Also, I like Nature's Vengeance on this build despite its purple rating, since it can turn your EoNT immobilizes into save-ends restrains, which isn't the worst daily power I've ever used.

As for the whole Wind Spirits issue . . . truth be told, I haven't even looked at the level 13 power set yet. I'm still coming to grips with actually being Paragon, and level 13 still seems like this point way off in the future. I'd probably take Warding Shot if I felt confident in my DEX, or Swarming Spirits (despite its non-RBA status) just because I love the blinded condition.
you can take Escaping Shot at 3, daze is never a bad condition, and if you have staggering smash that is daze+push+(of course) immobilise.

keep in mind all you need is one power of each kind from each class, you dont have to stagger them like the CB likes you to do.

and you can get around that with reserve maneuver
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
Oh, I forgot that TH is necessary for both MCs because of Bola Training. I suppose you're stuck with it then- but then, it's not like there are a ton of fantastic Seeker PPs out there that you're giving up.

The Seeker has exactly one handful of good encounter powers, but none of them are RBAs. In some cases (like Feyjump Shot) the loss of RBA goodies is more than made up for by the power's inherent control. Also, a good Controller has encounter and daily powers that inflict types of control that they can't already do at-will, so that they're more likely to have the right tool for any given encounter.
That's a fair point. Escaping Shot is probably worth it, then, because hey, it never hurts to have a relatively accurate (weapon vs. Will) daze on hand.

I checked the update document, and it appears that Eagle's Aim is indeed now at-will. Since I don't have too many things clamoring for my minor action, that's worth taking as my level 6 utility, I think . . . which clears up the feat I used for Distant Shot. Thoughts on what to fill it with? I'm leaning towards Improved Defenses (since really, those defenses are pretty shameful), but I'd certainly listen to an argument in favor of something else. True Seeker's Bond might be worth it, though. We've got a kobold Rogue in the party, and he's taught me the value of minor action shifts . . .
I've tried making bola throwers in 4e before (I had one in 3e I really liked) and the best I could come up with was twin shotting with them, so at least I got some damage in after knocking them prone and immobilizing them. It's only single target control, but I really dislike builds that can't deal any damage.
I've tried making bola throwers in 4e before (I had one in 3e I really liked) and the best I could come up with was twin shotting with them, so at least I got some damage in after knocking them prone and immobilizing them. It's only single target control, but I really dislike builds that can't deal any damage.

I perfer bola illusionist myself.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I've tried making bola throwers in 4e before (I had one in 3e I really liked) and the best I could come up with was twin shotting with them, so at least I got some damage in after knocking them prone and immobilizing them. It's only single target control, but I really dislike builds that can't deal any damage.


Couldnt you take the dual weapon cost for a bow aswell at least in this case. Then switch when you need range/damage.
I've tried making bola throwers in 4e before (I had one in 3e I really liked) and the best I could come up with was twin shotting with them, so at least I got some damage in after knocking them prone and immobilizing them. It's only single target control, but I really dislike builds that can't deal any damage.


Couldnt you take the dual weapon cost for a bow aswell at least in this case. Then switch when you need range/damage.

If you can switch weapons in the middle of a twin shot, sure...