Essentials... What exactly does [w] mean in a power mean?

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For example, if a power says something like:

Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier radiant damge...

and I'm using a +1 weapon that normally does, say 1d8 + STR damage, which resolves to 1d8 + 4, (STR mod = 3 and +1 weapon)

does the 2[W] resolve to just the raw die, (i.e. 2d8 + WIS),  or does it include the modifiers (i.e. 2d8 + 4 + WIS), or are both the modiflers doubled (i.e. 2d8 + 8+ WIS).

Is there something in the rules compendium or HoFL that explains this?

Thanks,
Knoble
[W] is your weapon damage die only.  It would be 2d8+(modifiers, once).
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
So, in the example above, 2d8+4+WIS?  I'm having trouble locating this in my resources.

Thanks again,
Knoble

P.S.  I'm really impressed with how quickly and pleasantly folks respond to questions on this forum.  I'm trying to research this stuff on my own and not abuse that.
[W] is the damage die listed in the Equipment section.  For a longsword it's a d8, for a falchion it's 2d4.

The text in the Equipment section should make this clear, I'd hope, though I don't have a copy of the book nearby to verify.  If it's not there, it'll be in the section that describes how weapon powers work.
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For example, if a power says something like:

Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier radiant damge...

and I'm using a +1 weapon that normally does, say 1d8 + STR damage, which resolves to 1d8 + 4, (STR mod = 3 and +1 weapon)

does the 2[W] resolve to just the raw die, (i.e. 2d8 + WIS),  or does it include the modifiers (i.e. 2d8 + 4 + WIS), or are both the modiflers doubled (i.e. 2d8 + 8+ WIS).

Is there something in the rules compendium or HoFL that explains this?

Thanks,
Knoble



If your WIS is 18 (+4 modifier), the damage would be 2d8+4 (WIS) + 1 (enhancement). You only add what is listed, so no additional STR mod, if it is not mentioned in the power. Other things like enhancement bonus or the feat Weapon Focus would add to all damage rolls that meet the criteria.

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You're right Mand12, this is explained in the weapons section... It's on page 329 of HoFL...

Unfortunately, the wording only clarifies the dice you toss, which was the easy part, and never really a question for me.  I'm wondering what to do with the modifiers... by a strict interpretation of the rules as written, it seems to me that the STR and the + 1 modifiers would get lost.  It doesn't seem right to me, but does seem to be the way it reads...

Hit: 2[W] + Wisdom modifier radiant damge.

And if they don't get lost they are they inside the bracket with the [W] and therefore doubled, or are they outside the brackets and used only once.  Or is perhaps the +1 for the weapon inside, and the +3 for STR outside, so that the +1 gets doubled but the +3 does not?

Unfortunately, this is pretty fundamental and it would be nice to have something authoritive that clarifies this.
None of the modifiers are doubled.  The [W] is ONLY the weapon damage die.  If you have a +3 STR Modifier, and a +1 Longsword, you can deal d8+4, or 2d8+4, or 3d8+4, and so forth.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Salla, why would the STR modifier still apply when the power says nothing about the STR modifier?  It references a WIS modifer.  On a basic attack I get the STR modifier, but this power says nothing about STR.

TorianT, If you only add what is listed, why would the magical enhancement modifer still apply when the power says nothing about it?  And if it does apply, why does it apply only once?

erachima, does "+your modifier to damage rolls from enhancement, feat, item, etc. bonuses" include the original STR bonus?

Guys, I realize I'm nitpicking here, and I'm not trying to be difficult...

Thanks again for all the replies.
Knoble

and I'm using a +1 weapon that normally does, say 1d8 + STR damage, which resolves to 1d8 + 4, (STR mod = 3 and +1 weapon)



Salla, why would the STR modifier still apply when the power says nothing about the STR modifier?  It references a WIS modifer.  On a basic attack I get the STR modifier, but this power says nothing about STR.



You said STR in that line in the first post, and I've been glossing over it.  You said STR bonus again in this post, too.  Either way, the answer doesn't change.  [W] is ONLY your weapon's damage die.

Enhancement bonuses add to damage rolls because the rules say enhancement bonuses add to damage rolls.  No matter how many dice you throw, it's still a single damage roll so it only applies once.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

TorianT, If you only add what is listed, why would the magical enhancement modifer still apply when the power says nothing about it?  And if it does apply, why does it apply only once?


Your [W] is only the weapon die of your weapon, not any bonuses, even if the power tells you to add something to it. If the power says "2[W]" and you use a longsword, then you would roll 2d8. That's it. If the power says "2[W] + Strength modifier" then you roll 2d8, total it, and then add in your strength modifier.
The power only lists the base damage that the power does. You only add in your ability modifier if the power tells you to. All the other modifiers you add in are not dependent on the power itself, and are added to any attack to which they would apply. Read the section about the rules for making an attack - an enhancement bonus from your weapon applies to any attack you make with your weapon, regardless of the power you use to make that attack.

erachima, does "+your modifier to damage rolls from enhancement, feat, item, etc. bonuses" include the original STR bonus?


No. You only add your ability modifier if the power says so. All those other things get added to any attack that they apply to - your weapon's enhancement bonus applies to any attack you make with it, for exmple, and the two-weapon fighting feat says "You gain a +1 bonus to damage when wielding two weapons" so that damage always applies to an attack while you're holding two weapons. Your ability modifier is different, because you don't automatically add your ability mod to damage for an attack unless the specific attack tells you to.


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Okay guys, I think I have it now... Here's my precise example... please LMK if my maths are right on this and I'll leave this poor dead horse alone.

Level 2 Cleric (including +1 bonus for 1/2 level)

 STR 16 (+4), really doesn't apply when using the power even though it normallyapplies when using this weapon.
 WIS 18 (+5)

Weilding a +1 warhammer normally 1d10 + 5 (+4 for STR and +1 for weapon)

He achieves a non-critical hit with Smite Undead (2[W] + WIS modifier radiant damge...)

Resulting damage would be...

2d10 + 6 (+5 for WIS, and +1 for weapon).

Thanks once again,
Knoble
Your results are almost correct. Damage would be 2d10+5. You do not add 1/2 level bonus to damage rolls, only to attack rolls.

For true correctness, though, a Warhammer does not "normally" deal 1d10+STR damage for you. It deals that damage when you make a Melee Basic Attack, which is a power in its own right, just one that everyone has.
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No, Strength doesn't normally apply when using the weapon.  In fact, it never applies unless the power you're using says it does.  Which it does for Melee Basic Attack, which is itself a power - but not for a whole lot of other powers.  Battleminds, rogues, swordmages, artificers, avengers, druids, ardents, hexblades...all do not use Strength for their weapon attacks.  At all.  A couple have individual powers or effects that reference Strength, but it is never the default assumption.

It's worth emphasizing again that there are a lot of things that apply a "bonus to damage rolls."  A damage roll means all of the dice you're using for the power.  A Barbarian multiclass rogue attacking with Howling Strike with the surprising charge feat with a rapier and using sneak attack will be doing 1d8+1d8+1d6+2d6 in dice, but it's still one damage roll.  Howling Strike does say to add Strength modifier, which gives us 1d8+1d8+1d6+2d6+Strmod.  That's a damage roll.  Now we add in any bonuses to damage rolls you might have:  enhancement, feat, item, power, untyped, etc, etc.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Your results are almost correct. Damage would be 2d10+5. You do not add 1/2 level bonus to damage rolls, only to attack rolls.



This is also an important point, editing my above post.  I actually disagree strongly with the layout of the character sheet, because it confuses new players.

Your ability modifier is defined as AbilMod = (Score-10)/2, round down.  This means an 18 has an ability modifier of +4.  18 always means the ability modifier is +4.  It doesn't change with level.

Now, some rolls do have a +1/2 level modifier to the roll, but this is a modifier to the roll, not an adjustment to the ability modifier itself.

The reason they add the list that includes the +1/2 level modifier is because that's what you would roll if you make an ability check, but that's glossing over one of the more important chunks of the math and I really wish they didn't.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
You do not add 1/2 level bonus to damage rolls, only to attack rolls.



You're right of course... thanks for pointing out that boo boo..

...  I actually disagree strongly with the layout of the character sheet, because it confuses new players.


...
Your ability modifier is defined as AbilMod = (Score-10)/2, round down.  This means an 18 has an ability modifier of +4.  18 always means the ability modifier is +4.  It doesn't change with level.

Now, some rolls do have a +1/2 level modifier to the roll, but this is a modifier to the roll, not an adjustment to the ability modifier itself.



When my wife and I were looking at this, it was actually the character sheet that helped us realize that 1/2 doesn't apply to damage.  It was very strongly implied by 1/2 level box being present in the attack workspace, but absent in the damage workspace.
Yes, the attack/damage workspaces are good.  I'm referring to a few sheet layouts that have one column for the ability scores, one enxt to it for ability modifiers, and a third for ability mod plus half level.  It tends to convince people that the ability mod increases with level when it doesn't, but it appears you may have avoided that mishap.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition

 You seem to have it down now.


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I am the Magic Man.

(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)

 

I am the Lawnmower Man.

(I AM GOD HERE!)

 

I am the Skull God.

(Koo Koo Ka Choo)

 

There are reasons they call me Mad...