I hate the new character builder

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My group and I have come back to playing again after some hectic schedules and have been looking at the new fourth edition character build, and I think we all hate it because of the additional Essentials nonesense.  We choose a class, and it fills out everything for us, and it's not as though they are obviuosly defined. 

Is there something we can do to help us figure this new character builder out, and make it more user friendly?  The old character builder was fantastic, and frankly it kind of pisses me off that I've been continuing to pay them so that they could change to the new character builder.  It makes no sense to me anyways. 

Anyways... I want to play 4E and use the character builder, but need help with the class definitions.  Please help.
create a custom character?

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

create a custom character?

that's what were doing.  But there are three wizard types, three ranger types, and fighters and so on and we can't immediately figure out which ones are the essentials, or fully customizable versions of the class.
create a custom character?

that's what were doing.  But there are three wizard types, three ranger types, and fighters and so on and we can't immediately figure out which ones are the essentials, or fully customizable versions of the class.



It's very easy.

When you click a class on the right hand side there is an info window and when you scroll to the bottom you can see the source of the class. 

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

create a custom character?

that's what were doing.  But there are three wizard types, three ranger types, and fighters and so on and we can't immediately figure out which ones are the essentials, or fully customizable versions of the class.



It's very easy.

When you click a class on the right hand side there is an info window and when you scroll to the bottom you can see the source of the class. 

That will work, and thanks.  Though it seems like they could have just put a big E on the actual bar that shows the character to help describe that.
Yay, hateing something because you have not bothered to figure out how to use it. 

Serriously If I was having trouble figuring out what was an essentials build and a non essentials build, the first thing I would do is read through/run down the class descriptions in that frame on the side, which includes the source. 

Or gone to the compendium, and done a basic search (just lits all the classes) as it will like the name and sources.  
Yay, hateing something because you have not bothered to figure out how to use it. 

Serriously If I was having trouble figuring out what was an essentials build and a non essentials build, the first thing I would do is read through/run down the class descriptions in that frame on the side, which includes the source. 

Or gone to the compendium, and done a basic search (just lits all the classes) as it will like the name and sources.  



Hate is an overexaggerated term for it.  I was annoyed by it, and was going a bit overboard describing my momentary issue. 
Wrong forum for this.
Overall, changing the class names to the builds/kit builds (Subclass) names was idiotic. In the PHB, it is called by the class name with two interwoven builds to choose power from. In the CB, it is... something.

The overall structure at the beginning is needless and usefull. Having to go through two "screens" to get to making a custom character is silly.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Actually, something I found interesting.

I just started up a new game two weeks ago, and one of my players mentioned that he was still using the Old character builder because he detested the new one.

Another player looked shocked, as this was his first 4e game ever, and had no experience with the Old Character Builder, so had nothing to compare it to.  To him, the entire thing is completely amazing, and being told that there was a better one prior to this iteration made his head spin until we showed him. 
Salla, on minions: I typically use them as encounter filler. 'I didn't quite fill out the XP budget, not enough room left for a decent near-level monster ... sprinkle in a few minions'. Kind of like monster styrofoam packing peanuts.
create a custom character?

that's what were doing.  But there are three wizard types, three ranger types, and fighters and so on and we can't immediately figure out which ones are the essentials, or fully customizable versions of the class.



It's very easy.

When you click a class on the right hand side there is an info window and when you scroll to the bottom you can see the source of the class. 

That will work, and thanks.  Though it seems like they could have just put a big E on the actual bar that shows the character to help describe that.



The ones with parentheses after their name are the essentials classes.

The exceptions are Fighter (Weaponsmaster), Rogue (Scoundrel), Wizard (Arcanist), Cleric (Templar), and Warlord (Marshall). These are actually standard classes.
All other classes that have parentheses after their name are essentials classes. All classes that do not have a parantheses after their name are non-essentials classes. Also, the Vampire is an essentials class, it just doesn't have a parent class like the others, so no parentheses.
Just finished looking at it. They redid the classes to where the base class is in front and the build in parentheses. This is a change from before. I still think the PHB builds should have an indicator of being the original PHB class, like a "PHB Source" graphic or something.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Yay, hateing something because you have not bothered to figure out how to use it. 

Serriously If I was having trouble figuring out what was an essentials build and a non essentials build, the first thing I would do is read through/run down the class descriptions in that frame on the side, which includes the source. 

Or gone to the compendium, and done a basic search (just lits all the classes) as it will like the name and sources.  



I saw nothing of him hating, not hateing, the CB. Seriously, (serriously??) I think the guy was venting some justified frustration.
Yay, hateing something because you have not bothered to figure out how to use it. 

Serriously If I was having trouble figuring out what was an essentials build and a non essentials build, the first thing I would do is read through/run down the class descriptions in that frame on the side, which includes the source. 

Or gone to the compendium, and done a basic search (just lits all the classes) as it will like the name and sources.  



I saw nothing of him hating, not hateing, the CB. Seriously, (serriously??) I think the guy was venting some justified frustration.



You mean the thread title?  "I Hate the New CB?"  Its not hate?

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

Yay, hateing something because you have not bothered to figure out how to use it. 

Serriously If I was having trouble figuring out what was an essentials build and a non essentials build, the first thing I would do is read through/run down the class descriptions in that frame on the side, which includes the source. 

Or gone to the compendium, and done a basic search (just lits all the classes) as it will like the name and sources.  



I saw nothing of him hating, not hateing, the CB. Seriously, (serriously??) I think the guy was venting some justified frustration.



You mean the thread title?  "I Hate the New CB?"  Its not hate?



Well, other than the word hate in the thread, there wasn't much hate ;) damn it, Herrozerro, ruining my fun...
Yay, hateing something because you have not bothered to figure out how to use it. 

Serriously If I was having trouble figuring out what was an essentials build and a non essentials build, the first thing I would do is read through/run down the class descriptions in that frame on the side, which includes the source. 

Or gone to the compendium, and done a basic search (just lits all the classes) as it will like the name and sources.  



I saw nothing of him hating, not hateing, the CB. Seriously, (serriously??) I think the guy was venting some justified frustration.



You mean the thread title?  "I Hate the New CB?"  Its not hate?



Well, other than the word hate in the thread, there wasn't much hate ;) damn it, Herrozerro, ruining my fun...



Well you are right, thread titles are meaningless, i mean look at the recent "This is not a Gripe Thread" Thread.  

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

I kind of agree with the OP - the quick character creation using only the main 2 essentials books has a nice layout and organization, but the build custom character does not at all.  They really should clearly label classes as essentials-style or standard-style, and if they are going to use subclasses they should figure out precisely how they are going to use them and implement them universally.  Things like having a Warlord (Marshal) when no other subclass exists while Ranger has 3 subclasses but one of them isn't tagged or named as such is just sloppy.  
I kind of agree with the OP - the quick character creation using only the main 2 essentials books has a nice layout and organization, but the build custom character does not at all.  They really should clearly label classes as essentials-style or standard-style, and if they are going to use subclasses they should figure out precisely how they are going to use them and implement them universally.  Things like having a Warlord (Marshal) when no other subclass exists while Ranger has 3 subclasses but one of them isn't tagged or named as such is just sloppy.  



I agree with half of the point.  I dont think it should be split between the so called E-style classes and old style clases because thats too subjective.  Where does the mage go?  Its even more complex then the wizard.

I think they should all have badges that mark there origin.  PHB classes are marked accordingly, as well as PHB 2, 3, HOFK, HOFL, DDI, HoS, HoF.

 

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

I kind of agree with the OP - the quick character creation using only the main 2 essentials books has a nice layout and organization, but the build custom character does not at all.  They really should clearly label classes as essentials-style or standard-style, and if they are going to use subclasses they should figure out precisely how they are going to use them and implement them universally.  Things like having a Warlord (Marshal) when no other subclass exists while Ranger has 3 subclasses but one of them isn't tagged or named as such is just sloppy.  



I agree with half of the point.  I dont think it should be split between the so called E-style classes and old style clases because thats too subjective.  Where does the mage go?  Its even more complex then the wizard.

I think they should all have badges that mark there origin.  PHB classes are marked accordingly, as well as PHB 2, 3, HOFK, HOFL, DDI, HoS, HoF.

 



Not a bad idea. They did that for a while with the dragon articles; an icon at the top designating what source the article was from/for.

I agree with the OP, though; the current CB kinda sucks.

Printing epic characters are a test of your printer color ink. The sheets of powers is a bit much. Luckily, I can bypass that when printing. Woe to the one who clicks print and then walks away.


Not a bad idea. They did that for a while with the dragon articles; an icon at the top designating what source the article was from/for. I agree with the OP, though; the current CB kinda sucks. Printing epic characters are a test of your printer color ink. The sheets of powers is a bit much. Luckily, I can bypass that when printing. Woe to the one who clicks print and then walks away.



Printing in greyscale really helps.

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

I dig the lazy awesomeness of the CB. It's like a cell phone. I've lived 4/5ths of my life without one, yet now that I have one, I don't want to go back. But, I do hate that it's not an updated downloadable piece of software anymore. I still use the origional, until I decide to buy a new PC, at least. (NO idea how to save the old CB...I somehow doubt I can just burn it to a disc.)
 LOL, I am finally over how they stopped supporting the OCB the same month that Dark Sun came out. Once you're used to the CB, it is hard to go back to the dark ages of pencils on a photocopy. Luckily, there are many form-style character sheets (among many other free D&D aids) out there on the internets.

I must say, however, WotC has basically lost me as a customer.
1) D&DI now is charging more money for MUCH less content then a few years ago. Add the CB nonsense; you have to pay monthly to even be able to update or print your PCs? What a load of what's wrong with capitolism.
2) the new physical products are more fluff and less substance. (Although, I have to admit that the monster vault is awesome. It's sequal, however, is the worst monster book ever published. It's mostly humanoid organizations/cults any DM could make up. 
3) The insult of even trying to pimp collectable random cards to D&D players. 
4) The apparent out of print status of a growing number of what used to be core 4e hardcover books.
5) The fact that minis are barely made anymore, and even the few post 4e sets out there are still random, cost more, are not higher quality, and contain a lot of useless-at-most-game-table creatures. Oh, and what ever happened to the non-random PC minis? They just ended that line with most classes and races just forgotten.
6) Why for the love of Bahamut can they make 2 (soon, 3) board games with interlocking tiles, yet have never published their otherwise awesome dungeon tile line with the same connectability? 

But, I still (and always will) LOVE the game. I love the designers. I love the forums and players. I love the artists and illustrators. I hate Hasbro.
 I just think that we, as the players, need to demand more of ourselves. And all of us should learn to rely on WotC materials less. For example, I'm familiar enough with magic items and monsters that I can stat out anything I can imagine (or copy from a book or movie) in a balanced way that other players will like. I can also build on existing D&D worlds, as well as make up my own. 

Anyway, lets all get back to playing and DMing. (And discussing minutae ad nausiam.)

Peace.     

I don't want to be an edition warrior. I think there was something good and something bad in all the editions I played. I do, however, believe that the game has gotten better over the years (and decades). I hope this holds true into the future.

Peace.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)


I must say, however, WotC has basically lost me as a customer.
1) D&DI now is charging more money for MUCH less content then a few years ago. Add the CB nonsense; you have to pay monthly to even be able to update or print your PCs? What a load of what's wrong with capitolism.


All of the content from a couple of years ago are still available in Character Builder and Compendium, barring some things which have been erratad. Some of the features in old CB aren't currently on the new CB, and I do have a lot of frustrations with it myself (print size, number of characters ceiling, etc...)
2) the new physical products are more fluff and less substance. (Although, I have to admit that the monster vault is awesome. It's sequal, however, is the worst monster book ever published. It's mostly humanoid organizations/cults any DM could make up.

I purchased MME, and there was a pretty high crunch to fluff ratio there. I do wish I'd have gotten more content on both sides for the price though.
3) The insult of even trying to pimp collectable random cards to D&D players.

It's not an insult. There are a lot of players that enjoy them. You don't have to buy them and you don't have to like them, but don't get mad that WotC is putting out a product and some people are buying it.
4) The apparent out of print status of a growing number of what used to be core 4e hardcover books.

It would be nice to see a reprint of PHB with errata included. But for that to happen, it would have to be a profitable use of their resources. I may or may not buy it if they did.
5) The fact that minis are barely made anymore, and even the few post 4e sets out there are still random, cost more, are not higher quality, and contain a lot of useless-at-most-game-table creatures. Oh, and what ever happened to the non-random PC minis? They just ended that line with most classes and races just forgotten.

On the other hand...new non-random monster mini packs are on the way, and I for one am intrigued. For PC's that I love, I'd almost rather buy a metal mini and pay someone to paint it for me.
6) Why for the love of Bahamut can they make 2 (soon, 3) board games with interlocking tiles, yet have never published their otherwise awesome dungeon tile line with the same connectability?

The interlocking tiles in Castle Ravenloft (I haven't played Wrath yet, but I assume it's the same) join at fixed locations. Dungeon tiles are designed so you can slide them next to each other in different ways. That 2x8 tile might be part of your room, it might be a corridor coming off the corner, or it might be in the center. You can't place interlocking threads well if you want to give variable setups. I use poster putty to hold mine in place - works pretty well. (When I don't leave my maps in the car for two weeks...damnit! ;p)

But, I still (and always will) LOVE the game. I love the designers. I love the forums and players. I love the artists and illustrators. I hate Hasbro.
 I just think that we, as the players, need to demand more of ourselves. And all of us should learn to rely on WotC materials less. For example, I'm familiar enough with magic items and monsters that I can stat out anything I can imagine (or copy from a book or movie) in a balanced way that other players will like. I can also build on existing D&D worlds, as well as make up my own. 

Anyway, lets all get back to playing and DMing. (And discussing minutae ad nausiam.)

Peace.     

Just to finish - I do love this sentiment. Especially as DM's...there are lots of ways to tap into the system and bring your own creative flair.
Yeah, I felt like venting. As you can tell, I felt better even before I finished posting ;)
I did not know that non-random monster were in the works, mini-wise...that is cool. I do like the tokens (monster vault) for most encounters, especially with lots of minions, but cool minis for important encounters are awesome. I'd like to see monster token sheets sold like dungeon tiles. Dark Sun Creature Catalog could really use a token set!
I checked out MME and did like it. Reminded me of oldschool D&D books, and added some new armor types. My gripe was really with monster vault 2:Threats to the Nentir Vale. I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy it, and I feel sorry for those who did. Also, I thought Heroes of Shadow was lacking. 
Oh, I did figure out how to make dungeon tiles interlocking, yet retain their modularity. It's a lot of work. Think 2D legos, so any 1" square on the edge of a tile can link up with and stick to any other 1" square (or more) on the edge of another tile. I've built a few prototypes using 1/8" plywood, and a table saw. Then painted them (both sides) with 'floor' textures, and the 1" grid (of course). Such a thing could easily be done with die cut thick card like WotC uses for tiles and tokens.... The cool thing about 1/8" plywood is that they can also connect and stand up at 90 degree angles strongly enough to hold minis, and not fall over when hit by errant d20's. 

I don't want to be an edition warrior. I think there was something good and something bad in all the editions I played. I do, however, believe that the game has gotten better over the years (and decades). I hope this holds true into the future.

Peace.

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg)

you could also go and purchase herolab and the dnd 4e with it.

you just need an active ddi account to go with it for the dnd material


 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Sorry, I don't have DDI, would someone please tell me the new title for the original PHB Ranger?
Sorry, I don't have DDI, would someone please tell me the new title for the original PHB Ranger?



hmmm I dont either ... but perhaps it should be McCloud - "There can be only one"
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Sorry, I don't have DDI, would someone please tell me the new title for the original PHB Ranger?



Twin Strike the Character?
Spiteful Wizard and Voice of Reason of the House of Trolls The Silent God of the House of Trolls Unfrozen OTTer Arbiter of the House of Trolls Yes, I have many titles. Deal with it.
But, I still (and always will) LOVE the game. I love the designers. I love the forums and players. I love the artists and illustrators. I hate Hasbro.



Amen.
Sorry, I don't have DDI, would someone please tell me the new title for the original PHB Ranger?



Twin Strike the Character?



And Archer Boy the other half?
I dig the lazy awesomeness of the CB. It's like a cell phone. I've lived 4/5ths of my life without one, yet now that I have one, I don't want to go back. But, I do hate that it's not an updated downloadable piece of software anymore. I still use the origional, until I decide to buy a new PC, at least. (NO idea how to save the old CB...I somehow doubt I can just burn it to a disc.)

You can, pretty much. I have successfully installed it on a thumb drive. There are a few tricks, the worst one being that you CANNOT control where it stores custom images AT ALL. But I tend to make a folder for each character I do much with - so I can store different versions of the character sheet, a custom picture, backstory documents, and anything else I want all together. Then I let it copy the picture from there to where it expects the picture to be.

4) The apparent out of print status of a growing number of what used to be core 4e hardcover books.

"Out of print" means that printing more is not on the schedule. The claim is that they have plenty in stock. The ready availability (last time I counted in a Barnes & Noble, they had over two dozen D&D titles including both DMGs, all three PHBs, quite a few Powers books, several Settings books, at least one Adventurer's Vault, MM1 and MM3, several adventures - oh, and the Rules Compendium and I think one of the Heroes books; this was in the Des Moines, Iowa area) supports this claim.

There's nothing stopping them from printing more of anything they need to. They just don't need to at present or in the near future. That's all "out of print" means.

5) The fact that minis are barely made anymore, and even the few post 4e sets out there are still random, cost more, are not higher quality, and contain a lot of useless-at-most-game-table creatures. Oh, and what ever happened to the non-random PC minis? They just ended that line with most classes and races just forgotten.

WotC sold neither the best, the least expensive, nor even the best inexpensive minis anyway. No loss.


"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Sorry, I don't have DDI, would someone please tell me the new title for the original PHB Ranger?

So far it's still just Ranger.

Ranger (Hunter) and Ranger (Scout) are the Essentials version, being a controller and a striker respectively.

"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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