Just packed with power cards

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Hi, I have a friend, let's call him 'Dave'.  Dave has a theory about EDH success, and it goes something like this: just pack the deck with superpowered cards.   He's currently running a Mimeoplasm General, and his deck has a very healthy dose of mana-ramping, so he can get going pretty fast.  He has Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Worldly Tutor, and Mystical Tutor to help get things going the way he wants, and before you know it, he's got his Primeval Titan in play and has more land than he could ever need.

With this land, he summons such delightful things as Myojin of Life's Web, Myojin of Night's Reach, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Damia, Sage of Stone, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, and other frightening horrors with alarming regularity.  If the situation calls for it, he has no problem whipping out Living Death, Reins of Power, and Plague Wind to change the whole board to his favour.

How do I deal with Dave?  Do I just have to copy him and buy all the biggest, baddest, most board-affecting cards out there and ramp up to them as fast as possible?

IMAGE(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/jdealer90/RandomAnimal.jpg)

Hi, I have a friend, let's call him 'Dave'.  Dave has a theory about EDH success, and it goes something like this: just pack the deck with superpowered cards.   He's currently running a Mimeoplasm General, and his deck has a very healthy dose of mana-ramping, so he can get going pretty fast.  He has Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Worldly Tutor, and Mystical Tutor to help get things going the way he wants, and before you know it, he's got his Primeval Titan in play and has more land than he could ever need.

With this land, he summons such delightful things as Myojin of Life's Web, Myojin of Night's Reach, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Damia, Sage of Stone, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, and other frightening horrors with alarming regularity.  If the situation calls for it, he has no problem whipping out Living Death, Reins of Power, and Plague Wind to change the whole board to his favour.

How do I deal with Dave?  Do I just have to copy him and buy all the biggest, baddest, most board-affecting cards out there and ramp up to them as fast as possible?


Make a Pauper deck.

Yes, this is exact opposite of builing a power deck.  Pauper means that the deck (other than the General) is filled with just commons.  There may be allowable up to 5 or 10 uncommons, I think, but the general idea is that you make an entire deck out of commons.

Yes, you will probably lose to a finely tuned power deck, but hopefully Dave will see the fun one can have with less powerful decks and then build accordingly.  Dave needs to learn that the game is based around fun, and if nobody else at the table is having fun, then they will quit playing.

Also, do you guys just play 1v1?  Maybe get a group together.  If one deck sticks out as the most powerful, people will start ganging up on that one guy.  Dave will then learn to make decks that don't seem as powerful so he isn't hated out of each game. 
Are you playing 1v1? If so, then it seems like Dave has the right idea. Decks that can produce their threats and control the board are what consistently wins in other constructed formats.

Otherwise, pretty much what mellojoe said.
If searching is a huge problem then maybe StrangleHold will shut him down.


But the main point here is that EDH is a multiplayer game. He won't be able to get away with that stuff among other people.  
Just combo out. Tooth and Nail is pretty good for doing that. I have seen people take infinite turns before. Lock the board down with Erayo, Soratami Ascendant and Arcane Laboratory. Whatever floats your boat.
Man!  First time I've heard anyone say that big dudes and ramp is broken in EDH, LOL !  But seriously, is your complaint that his deck has much better card quality than you(the rest of your group)?  Is it a strategy or tactic you need to combat the crazy legends he fills his deck with?  Basically your post described a normal EDH deck and then didn't really ask a question other than 'Do I have to live with this'?  If you give us more to go on we can at least try and be helpful.
Currently in the deck box: Ashling the Pilgrim Horde of Notions Merieke Ri Berit Lin Sivvi Ertai,the Corrupted Riku of Two Reflections Sliver Overlord In Progress: Garza Zol Thraximundar
I thought this post was about me for a second but I do not run this genral.  I dont see a problem with running the best/most powerful cards I can get my grubby little hands on.  Its done in all formats.  Its just that this format makes plague wind one of those cards.  So I am with your friend "Dave"  If I can play a good card I will.  If that makes me Timmy, Power Gamer  I'm ok with that.  At least Im not Johnny, Combo Player

Now that said I do have decks that are fun and do run bad cards  or I only have a one of so I use something inferior in its place.  

I don't think players should be thought of as jerks for playing good cards

I'm fine with playing with good cards.

I'm more of a Johnny than a Timmy, as evidenced by my Teferi Deck...

You know, after I posted the first post here, I read up on some of the other EDH threads, and I realize I didn't completely "get" EDH.  I have not played it a great deal.  I do have a fun Niv-Mizzet deck made, but my Momir Vig one kept tanking.

After assessing my situation, it seems to have been a case of "You're doing it wrong" that I have since remedied. I took a bunch of stupid Counterspells out and replaced them with more bigger stuffs, and a tighter Momir Vig strategy, and I've been doing some more consistent ass-kicking!  When my Jin-Gitaxias arrives, then we'll really get the party started.

Thanks for your posts!

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Hi, I have a friend, let's call him 'Dave'.  Dave has a theory about EDH success, and it goes something like this: just pack the deck with superpowered cards.   He's currently running a Mimeoplasm General, and his deck has a very healthy dose of mana-ramping, so he can get going pretty fast.  He has Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Worldly Tutor, and Mystical Tutor to help get things going the way he wants, and before you know it, he's got his Primeval Titan in play and has more land than he could ever need.

With this land, he summons such delightful things as Myojin of Life's Web, Myojin of Night's Reach, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Damia, Sage of Stone, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, and other frightening horrors with alarming regularity.  If the situation calls for it, he has no problem whipping out Living Death, Reins of Power, and Plague Wind to change the whole board to his favour.

How do I deal with Dave?  Do I just have to copy him and buy all the biggest, baddest, most board-affecting cards out there and ramp up to them as fast as possible?



Just talk with him.  Sometimes I get annoyed too because the decks are basically built all the same way and the gameplay becomes repetitive. Dave probably has something more fitting and experimental in stall.
If he refuses to switch, then he is an **** and the problem isn't the cards but the player. Building your own power-deck won't help in that case because playing against ****s is playing against ****s and unfun no matter the cards.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.



It's often not about ability but rather about what decks players want to play.

EDH is for me to try whacky new stuff and a place where newer players should be welcome. It's where you can play what is too weak to be played in competitve environments.

Legacy is a place for tense competitive games where degenerate plays happen very fast. I like degenerate, even moreso than not, but I don't need it in EDH. It is simply not what I am looking for and if opponents are incapable of accommodating other views than their own they are ****s in a casual multiplayer format. There's no way to put it less bluntly.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
Wait, so dave is playing big, splashy cards that don't combo-win or lock anyone out of the game? That is exactly how the format was meant to be played.

Sounds like the issue is he's just spending more money on his decks than you. Thing is, his deck isn't actually all that powerful, based off the cards you listed.

My advice is to post your own decklist here. I bet with some very budget-friendly tweaks it can easily be brought up to par with dave's, or better.
I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.



It's often not about ability but rather about what decks players want to play.

EDH is for me to try whacky new stuff and a place where newer players should be welcome. It's where you can play what is too weak to be played in competitve environments.

Legacy is a place for tense competitive games where degenerate plays happen very fast. I like degenerate, even moreso than not, but I don't need it in EDH. It is simply not what I am looking for and if opponents are incapable of accommodating other views than their own they are ****s in a casual multiplayer format. There's no way to put it less bluntly.



EDH being a casual format doesnt mean that decks shouldnt be good.  I mean I build my fair share of odd decks but I always make sure they can at least hold their own in a game.  And honestly I have no sympathy for people who build legitimately and obviously bad deck, then whine that everyone else is ruining the format.  Really terrible decks are just as bad and a pain as super-tuned lock people out turn 3 decks.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.



It's often not about ability but rather about what decks players want to play.

EDH is for me to try whacky new stuff and a place where newer players should be welcome. It's where you can play what is too weak to be played in competitve environments.

Legacy is a place for tense competitive games where degenerate plays happen very fast. I like degenerate, even moreso than not, but I don't need it in EDH. It is simply not what I am looking for and if opponents are incapable of accommodating other views than their own they are ****s in a casual multiplayer format. There's no way to put it less bluntly.



EDH being a casual format doesnt mean that decks shouldnt be good.  I mean I build my fair share of odd decks but I always make sure they can at least hold their own in a game.  And honestly I have no sympathy for people who build legitimately and obviously bad deck, then whine that everyone else is ruining the format.  Really terrible decks are just as bad and a pain as super-tuned lock people out turn 3 decks.



I can not agree with this more.    
I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.



It's often not about ability but rather about what decks players want to play.

EDH is for me to try whacky new stuff and a place where newer players should be welcome. It's where you can play what is too weak to be played in competitve environments.

Legacy is a place for tense competitive games where degenerate plays happen very fast. I like degenerate, even moreso than not, but I don't need it in EDH. It is simply not what I am looking for and if opponents are incapable of accommodating other views than their own they are ****s in a casual multiplayer format. There's no way to put it less bluntly.



EDH being a casual format doesnt mean that decks shouldnt be good.  I mean I build my fair share of odd decks but I always make sure they can at least hold their own in a game.  And honestly I have no sympathy for people who build legitimately and obviously bad deck, then whine that everyone else is ruining the format.  Really terrible decks are just as bad and a pain as super-tuned lock people out turn 3 decks.



There's no obligation to build good decks.
But yes, if you play an opponent with a strong deck you should accommodate him too by trying to better your deck as much as you are capable. In multiplayer compromise is vital.

The problem often arises that some power-players are unwilling to compromise even in the slightest while the other dudes try their best but are still annihilated every time. I have seen it and it angers me. It makes me ashamed to be part spike myself.

I've never seen the opposite case.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
I hate it when people expect me to dumb down my decks to make it "more fair" for them. How is that more fair for me if I spent time and money to develop one of my decks and then I am suppost to purposefully nerf my own deck so they have a better chance to win? That doesnt seem very fair at all.
I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.



It's often not about ability but rather about what decks players want to play.

EDH is for me to try whacky new stuff and a place where newer players should be welcome. It's where you can play what is too weak to be played in competitve environments.

Legacy is a place for tense competitive games where degenerate plays happen very fast. I like degenerate, even moreso than not, but I don't need it in EDH. It is simply not what I am looking for and if opponents are incapable of accommodating other views than their own they are ****s in a casual multiplayer format. There's no way to put it less bluntly.



EDH being a casual format doesnt mean that decks shouldnt be good.  I mean I build my fair share of odd decks but I always make sure they can at least hold their own in a game.  And honestly I have no sympathy for people who build legitimately and obviously bad deck, then whine that everyone else is ruining the format.  Really terrible decks are just as bad and a pain as super-tuned lock people out turn 3 decks.



There's no obligation to build good decks.
But yes, if you play an opponent with a strong deck you should accommodate him too by trying to better your deck as much as you are capable. In multiplayer compromise is vital.

The problem often arises that some power-players are unwilling to compromise even in the slightest while the other dudes try their best but are still annihilated every time. I have seen it and it angers me. It makes me ashamed to be part spike myself.

I've never seen the opposite case.



I guess I'm confused why anyone would every build a deck that wasnt good.  I mean I've built decks that were bad, they either got retuned or torn apart.  As for purposefully weakening my decks in order to accomadate someone that doesnt like playing good cards...well that just isn't happening.  I guess as the kids say now a days, get on my level.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
I would say your buddy dave is playing The mimeoplasm wrong. If you want to be a power house and win with the mimeoplasm you only need a combination of a couple of cards.

And to be honest it's not very difficult to get what you need, to be a power-house without that 50 dollar card.

You need the following:

Hall of the bandit lord

Some card that puts creatures in your graveyard

death's shadow

And a game winning creature


Now using this idea you can basically just fill your deck with the following:

Infect Creatures
Creatures with massive power/toughness
Evasion with things like unblockable, shroud, flying, haste etc.

Then tutors for what you need.  Any tutor to find your Buried Alive and spells like it, and tutors for land like hall of bandit lord.  May I suggest copy abilities to copy other people's primevals or spells that search for lands. And then some extra cards that make you discard. There is a rediculous mirrodin card that mills for untapping. A brilliant card for filling graveyards.



Ok so the point here is that Power Cards are pretty subjective for the most part. No one is arguing the power of a Sol Ring. But some people might argue the usefulness of the Myojin cycle vs say a simple Artizan of Kosilek.

And if you are talking price in land ramp, if you're in green it won't matter cause there's a million budget options. If you're not in green, there's still budget options that aren't "power cards" but should be played.  Expedition Map, Wayfarer's bauble etc.


I think this stuff has been discussed a few times over in other threads. There should be nothing wrong with power decks cause you don't need power cards to win. If someone wants to spend a billion dollars on cards then go ahead, it could be a wicked deck. But it's not going to win 100% of the time.


I will also echo the sentiments that there are some cards just too powerful. Personally I think the ban list could grow a bit. I don't see a reason to put Blightsteel Collosus in any deck. (though I suppose I contradicted myself with the above combo) but my meta plays a ton of Bribery so blightsteels are just.. game enders with things like that and Riku and Right of Replication etc.

Anyways.
According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.
Jodah's Avenger and Kalonian Behemoth... then greaves it up and remove two counters to make it an 11/11 doublestrike Shadow general...
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
For a FFA (which EDH is all about) my personal favorite is primary copy Hydra Omnivore and secondary copy Death's Shadow..... swing 21 general damage at everyone, pass turn



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Isn't general damage only combat damage?
For a FFA (which EDH is all about) my personal favorite is primary copy Hydra Omnivore and secondary copy Death's Shadow..... swing 21 general damage at everyone, pass turn



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Yeah...doesnt work.  You would kill whoever you attacked with general damage.  The secondary damage from the triggered ability doesnt count as general damage.  So at that point you might as well just exile Hydra Omnivore and Lord of Extinction for straight up normal kills.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
I hate it when people expect me to dumb down my decks to make it "more fair" for them. How is that more fair for me if I spent time and money to develop one of my decks and then I am suppost to purposefully nerf my own deck so they have a better chance to win? That doesnt seem very fair at all.



Use another deck. Sheesh, it isn't that difficult.

Playing with a powerful deck against weak decks is boring anyway. There's only so much satisfaction you can squeeze out of the bambi versus godzilla szenario.

I have a friend who plays a fully tuned Vendillion Clique deck but Im able to beat him about 50% of the time with my self made Stonebrow deck, so sometimes when people complain about other decks I wonder about their personal deckbuilding skills.  Its nice to see the OP discovered a solution himself which is great.



It's often not about ability but rather about what decks players want to play.

EDH is for me to try whacky new stuff and a place where newer players should be welcome. It's where you can play what is too weak to be played in competitve environments.

Legacy is a place for tense competitive games where degenerate plays happen very fast. I like degenerate, even moreso than not, but I don't need it in EDH. It is simply not what I am looking for and if opponents are incapable of accommodating other views than their own they are ****s in a casual multiplayer format. There's no way to put it less bluntly.



EDH being a casual format doesnt mean that decks shouldnt be good.  I mean I build my fair share of odd decks but I always make sure they can at least hold their own in a game.  And honestly I have no sympathy for people who build legitimately and obviously bad deck, then whine that everyone else is ruining the format.  Really terrible decks are just as bad and a pain as super-tuned lock people out turn 3 decks.



There's no obligation to build good decks.
But yes, if you play an opponent with a strong deck you should accommodate him too by trying to better your deck as much as you are capable. In multiplayer compromise is vital.

The problem often arises that some power-players are unwilling to compromise even in the slightest while the other dudes try their best but are still annihilated every time. I have seen it and it angers me. It makes me ashamed to be part spike myself.

I've never seen the opposite case.



I guess I'm confused why anyone would every build a deck that wasnt good.  I mean I've built decks that were bad, they either got retuned or torn apart.  As for purposefully weakening my decks in order to accomadate someone that doesnt like playing good cards...well that just isn't happening.  I guess as the kids say now a days, get on my level.



Again, just borrow another deck or build a second, weaker deck. With the lack of imagination you two show I wonder how much fun you have in this format anyway.

Getting on your level isn't easy for a beginner. People often lack the card pool (aka money), or yes, the skill to build powerful decks. Developing both to a point where you are capable of competing with the best decks in the format isn't that easy, especially if you lack the money.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
Ive got 7 decks, and the two that I play the least are my two strongest (Uril and Oros). Even still, I am not going to make my decks weaker just because someone else doesnt have their decks up to speed. This is a multiplayer format and anyone who is playing a game with me has more than just my deck to worry about. I dont usually even focus on anybody who isnt a direct threat to me. People still complain, as they always will, and then the next time I play with them they play something even worse. They complain about mass land destruction, and then pull out a Niv-Mizzet Curiosity Combo or they Tooth and Nail for Kiki-Jiki and Sky Hussar. Screw that. I am not changing my decks so other people dont lose as often.

Besides, its not like the player with the best deck, or most expensive cards is automatically the winner. The two biggest factors in who wins a game of EDH are timing and politics. You could do nothing but sit there all game, and then come in and clean up at the right moment with cards like Exsanguinate or Insurrection. Dont give me that BS that its not fair for someone with a weaker deck, when they have the same opportunity to win as everyone else. Hell, they might even have a better shot, since people will ignore them while they focus on other players who are bigger threats.
Ive got 7 decks, and the two that I play the least are my two strongest (Uril and Oros). Even still, I am not going to make my decks weaker just because someone else doesnt have their decks up to speed. This is a multiplayer format and anyone who is playing a game with me has more than just my deck to worry about. I dont usually even focus on anybody who isnt a direct threat to me. People still complain, as they always will, and then the next time I play with them they play something even worse. They complain about mass land destruction, and then pull out a Niv-Mizzet Curiosity Combo or they Tooth and Nail for Kiki-Jiki and Sky Hussar. Screw that. I am not changing my decks so other people dont lose as often.



There will always be scrubs.

But automatically dismissing every complain as whining means ... you are the **** on the table.

Besides, its not like the player with the best deck, or most expensive cards is automatically the winner. The two biggest factors in who wins a game of EDH are timing and politics. You could do nothing but sit there all game, and then come in and clean up at the right moment with cards like Exsanguinate or Insurrection. Dont give me that BS that its not fair for someone with a weaker deck, when they have the same opportunity to win as everyone else. Hell, they might even have a better shot, since people will ignore them while they focus on other players who are bigger threats.



Depends. If the power difference is too great this is not true. I've been the one to repeatedly annihilate others (I did not carry a second deck and couldn't borrow one). There's only so much that jank deck can do against contamination (replace with ugly combo or ridiculous cards like shahrazad or necropotence if you want). The format is inherently broken so the responsibilty to care about a healthy meta rests on players shoulders. So no, timing and politics are not the two biggest factors. Power is the biggest.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.
This is what I normally play and also what normally gets tons of complaints.  I've had people complain for simply owning cards like the Primeval Titan or the Sword of Feast and Famine.  I'm sorry I'm not going to sit around and try to lower this deck's power level for crybabies.  This also isn't even my strongest deck.

General: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero

Acidic Slime
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Barbed Shocker
Boartusk Liege
Borborygmos
Darksteel Colossus
Deus of Calamity
Eternal Witness
Fangren Pathcutter
Flameblast Dragon
Garruk's Companion
Garruk's Horde
Garruk's Packleader
Giant Solifuge
Hellkite Charger
Kavu Titan
Kodama of the North Tree
Mana-Charged Dragon
Oracle of Mul Daya
Pelakka Wurm
Primeval Titan
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Skinshifter
Skizzik
Spawnwrithe
Thornling
Urabrask the Hidden
Vigor
Wilderness Elemental
Yavimaya Elder

Garruk Wildspeaker

Aggravated Assault
Ancient Grudge
Banefire
Bear Umbra
Beast Within
Breath of Fury
Chaos Warp
Cultivate
Earthquake
Fury of the Horde
Green Sun's Zenith
Gruul War Plow
Harmonize
Horned Helm
Hunter's Insight
In the Web of War
Insurrection
Kodama's Reach
Krosan Grip
Nature's Will
Praetor's Counsel
Rampant Growth
Relentless Assault
Rough/Tumble
Savage Beating
Savage Twister
Soul's Majesty
Sword of Feast and Famine
Vengeful Rebirth
Wild Ricochet
World at War

Copperline Gorge
Fire-Lit Thicket
Forgotten Cave
Fungal Reaches
Gruul Turf
Highland Weald
Karplusan Forest
Kazandu Refuge
Mossfire Valley
Mosswort Bridge
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Reliquary Tower
Rootbound Crag
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Shivan Oasis
Skarrg, the Rage Pits
Spinerock Knoll
Temple of the False God
Tranquil Thicket
8 Mountain
9 Forest

So yeah, some people just need to stop being crybabies.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
So no, timing and politics are not the two biggest factors. Power is the biggest.



I have won many games on the back of a well timed play, rather than the power of my deck. We will just have to agree to disagree.
This is what I normally play and also what normally gets tons of complaints.  I've had people complain for simply owning cards like the Primeval Titan or the Sword of Feast and Famine.  I'm sorry I'm not going to sit around and try to lower this deck's power level for crybabies.  This also isn't even my strongest deck.

General: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero

Acidic Slime
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Barbed Shocker
Boartusk Liege
Borborygmos
Darksteel Colossus
Deus of Calamity
Eternal Witness
Fangren Pathcutter
Flameblast Dragon
Garruk's Companion
Garruk's Horde
Garruk's Packleader
Giant Solifuge
Hellkite Charger
Kavu Titan
Kodama of the North Tree
Mana-Charged Dragon
Oracle of Mul Daya
Pelakka Wurm
Primeval Titan
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Skinshifter
Skizzik
Spawnwrithe
Thornling
Urabrask the Hidden
Vigor
Wilderness Elemental
Yavimaya Elder

Garruk Wildspeaker

Aggravated Assault
Ancient Grudge
Banefire
Bear Umbra
Beast Within
Breath of Fury
Chaos Warp
Cultivate
Earthquake
Fury of the Horde
Green Sun's Zenith
Gruul War Plow
Harmonize
Horned Helm
Hunter's Insight
In the Web of War
Insurrection
Kodama's Reach
Krosan Grip
Nature's Will
Praetor's Counsel
Rampant Growth
Relentless Assault
Rough/Tumble
Savage Beating
Savage Twister
Soul's Majesty
Sword of Feast and Famine
Vengeful Rebirth
Wild Ricochet
World at War

Copperline Gorge
Fire-Lit Thicket
Forgotten Cave
Fungal Reaches
Gruul Turf
Highland Weald
Karplusan Forest
Kazandu Refuge
Mossfire Valley
Mosswort Bridge
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Reliquary Tower
Rootbound Crag
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Shivan Oasis
Skarrg, the Rage Pits
Spinerock Knoll
Temple of the False God
Tranquil Thicket
8 Mountain
9 Forest

So yeah, some people just need to stop being crybabies.



If your opponents are crying over a deck like this, I don't think the cards you own/use are the problem. If SoFaF and Primeval Titan are the cards your opponents are crying over, than they need to see somebody Erayo-lock the table or something.
I'm new to the forums, and would really appreciate help on any of my deck lists, as those who live near me and play Magic is a small pool to draw from. I play EDH and Standard, and enjoy both Sealed and Draft in Limited. Wort EDH In standard I play U/w Delver/Illusions.
yeah it's not even a great deck, but apparently doing 20ish damage with two creatures in one turn is just a no-no.  I kill them before I let them get set up and play or something...
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
Greenmage is right, DOLZero is wrong.
Greenmage is right, DOLZero is wrong.

This is left.
This is what I normally play and also what normally gets tons of complaints.  I've had people complain for simply owning cards like the Primeval Titan or the Sword of Feast and Famine.  I'm sorry I'm not going to sit around and try to lower this deck's power level for crybabies.  This also isn't even my strongest deck.

General: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero

Acidic Slime
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Barbed Shocker
Boartusk Liege
Borborygmos
Darksteel Colossus
Deus of Calamity
Eternal Witness
Fangren Pathcutter
Flameblast Dragon
Garruk's Companion
Garruk's Horde
Garruk's Packleader
Giant Solifuge
Hellkite Charger
Kavu Titan
Kodama of the North Tree
Mana-Charged Dragon
Oracle of Mul Daya
Pelakka Wurm
Primeval Titan
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Skinshifter
Skizzik
Spawnwrithe
Thornling
Urabrask the Hidden
Vigor
Wilderness Elemental
Yavimaya Elder

Garruk Wildspeaker

Aggravated Assault
Ancient Grudge
Banefire
Bear Umbra
Beast Within
Breath of Fury
Chaos Warp
Cultivate
Earthquake
Fury of the Horde
Green Sun's Zenith
Gruul War Plow
Harmonize
Horned Helm
Hunter's Insight
In the Web of War
Insurrection
Kodama's Reach
Krosan Grip
Nature's Will
Praetor's Counsel
Rampant Growth
Relentless Assault
Rough/Tumble
Savage Beating
Savage Twister
Soul's Majesty
Sword of Feast and Famine
Vengeful Rebirth
Wild Ricochet
World at War

Copperline Gorge
Fire-Lit Thicket
Forgotten Cave
Fungal Reaches
Gruul Turf
Highland Weald
Karplusan Forest
Kazandu Refuge
Mossfire Valley
Mosswort Bridge
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Reliquary Tower
Rootbound Crag
Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
Shivan Oasis
Skarrg, the Rage Pits
Spinerock Knoll
Temple of the False God
Tranquil Thicket
8 Mountain
9 Forest

So yeah, some people just need to stop being crybabies.



Scrubs are going to whine.

Just don't make the mistake of confusing legitimate complains with whining.
IMAGE(http://www.projektstarwars.de/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=16432&dateline=1299412590) Fallen Star Verlag Play Legacy! Decks: Legacy Natural Order/Hulk EDH Iname, Death Aspect / Rosheen Meanderer Casual Elves! I petition for the removal of the mythic rarity.