Lair Assault - Speed Demon reward

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Finishing the fight in 5 rounds or less doesn't seem likely with a standard "fight and then move on" strategy so here's our current plan, which we will be implementing tonight: Mundane riding horses and Ghost Bridles. The exact plan, which includes spoilers can be found in the box.

Any reason this shouldn't work? Also, what creative ways has your group used to get this reward?

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Everyone buys a riding horse (75gp) and a Ghost Bridle (level 4 item). Round 1 we all ride our horses (speed 10) towards the door straight ahead of us. Use a minor action to gain phasing. Ready a run action triggered when the last ally in the initiative order goes through the door. When the last person gains phasing they take a run action to run THROUGH the door and THROUGH the fake wall! Everyone else's readied actions go off, and the entire party follows as a group. We are now in the boss's room at the end of round 1 and have four rounds to kill him.
your DM might rule that the forge would not allow access for large mounts. It is my understanding that it is underground and getting horses down there may be a tough sell. While this is an anything goes optimization event the DM can still adjudicate.
I can only see a few flaws, minor ones at best:  

First, make sure your DM is on board with mundane items not having to come out of your 840gp.  There is some debate as to whether regular rules for starting at higher level are followed or if they are superceded by the LA equipment rules.  I'll assume you have already dealt with this, or are taking your Bridle as one of your other items.

Second, that's going to be quite a pileup of 2x2 bases at the doors while everyone Readies.  It's possible you will suck up a few OAs, and -  depending on what monsters your DM picked out for the welcome squad - standing around in fireball formation might be more than a little painful.  Throwing some resources towards winning initiative might help everyone get to the forge more or less unscathed, especially if someone in your party is playing something that both dumped DEX and eschewed Resists.  Readying eats your Immediates too, in case someone was planning on avoiding a hit that way.

Third, you do risk bringing any monsters from the intervening rooms with you, but I'm pretty sure that's true no matter what strategy you use for a speed run.  Your plan handles that problem pretty well, just beware of unintended consequences.

see?  minor ones =)  Sounds like a promising and fun attempt.  Good Luck!


INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

First, make sure your DM is on board with mundane items not having to come out of your 840gp.



That's not the DM's decision, actually. The character creation rules specifically say that the 840gp is for any items beyond the first three magic items, whether they be magical or mundane.

I personally would also rule that it's too cramped of quarters anyway.  The ceiling is only 10 feet high to begin with, so you'd practically be scraping your head against it (and you can forget about jumping). And the doorway would probably be too small to fit through without dismounting and squeezing.

If I really wanted to be evil, I'd allow it, but I'd rule that the extra time needed to set up such an endeavor wastes the first five rounds while the monsters stand there and laugh at you for being dumb enough to haul half a herd of horses all this way. But that's just me.

Upon discussing this with my wife, she pulled out the following quote:

HORSES are of a breed unique to Fantasyland. They are capable of galloping full-tilt all day without a rest. Sometimes they do not require food or water. They never cast shoes, go lame, or put their hooves down holes, except when Management deems it necessary, as when the forces of the DARK LORD are only half an hour behind. They never otherwise stumble. Nor do they ever make life difficult for Tourists by biting or kicking their riders or one another. They never resist being mounted or blow out so that their girths slip, or do any of the other things that make horses so chancy in this world. ... Horses can be used just like bicycles, and usually are.

--Diana Wynne Jones, The Tough Guide to Fantasyland



 If she were running the game, her ruling would be that the horses panic and trample the PCs underfoot, TPK, roll up new characters.

So yeah. 
For clarification, the horses are purchased and the Ghost Bridle is taken in the level 4 magic item slot.
First, make sure your DM is on board with mundane items not having to come out of your 840gp.



That's not the DM's decision, actually. The character creation rules specifically say that the 840gp is for any items beyond the first three magic items, whether they be magical or mundane.

I personally would also rule that it's too cramped of quarters anyway.  The ceiling is only 10 feet high to begin with, so you'd practically be scraping your head against it (and you can forget about jumping). And the doorway would probably be too small to fit through without dismounting and squeezing.

If I really wanted to be evil, I'd allow it, but I'd rule that the extra time needed to set up such an endeavor wastes the first five rounds while the monsters stand there and laugh at you for being dumb enough to haul half a herd of horses all this way. But that's just me.

Upon discussing this with my wife, she pulled out the following quote:

HORSES are of a breed unique to Fantasyland. They are capable of galloping full-tilt all day without a rest. Sometimes they do not require food or water. They never cast shoes, go lame, or put their hooves down holes, except when Management deems it necessary, as when the forces of the DARK LORD are only half an hour behind. They never otherwise stumble. Nor do they ever make life difficult for Tourists by biting or kicking their riders or one another. They never resist being mounted or blow out so that their girths slip, or do any of the other things that make horses so chancy in this world. ... Horses can be used just like bicycles, and usually are.

--Diana Wynne Jones, The Tough Guide to Fantasyland



 If she were running the game, her ruling would be that the horses panic and trample the PCs underfoot, TPK, roll up new characters.

So yeah. 

What a great charop reply/contribution.

"If I were DM, I'd fiat up a storm, make up rules, and rule 0 your group to autofail! HAHAHA!"

Thanks, James. Looking forward to seeing more from you in the future.
Because sarcasm is always a beneficial contribution to any conversation, amirite?

Seriously, I'm pointing out reasonable, logical reasons why it can't work the way everyone expects it to. Just because you can buy a horse doesn't mean you can haul him into a fiery underground complex without the horse freaking out on you. It may be a tactical encounter but it's still a roleplaying game, after all.
But I thought lair assault was supposed to be for the rediculous... and if so then their plan fits perfectly... 
Because sarcasm is always a beneficial contribution to any conversation, amirite?

Seriously, I'm pointing out reasonable, logical reasons why it can't work the way everyone expects it to. Just because you can buy a horse doesn't mean you can haul him into a fiery underground complex without the horse freaking out on you. It may be a tactical encounter but it's still a roleplaying game, after all.

You're objections are realistic. Are games realistic in your general experience? Particularly ones that are specifically not simulationist? No?

Your comments are not relevant to RAW. Horses in 4e don't panic, and if something is 10ft high you can ride the Horse and the Horse can fit. No debate to be had.

Also your wife is a bad DM.

OP: Works fine.
Just to interject some more realism, as it regards to D&D, fantasy and roleplaying. Wearing a suit of Full plate is exhausting, and people without armor hit by swords generally die immediately, so first: After a round or two in your full plate, you'll need to rest, and if you are unarmored and get hit by an attack, you die.

Inspired by JamesCarda.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Might I recommend taking a logic class? I'm sure you'd find it quite informative.
I majored in Philosophy, Son.
Because sarcasm is always a beneficial contribution to any conversation, amirite?

Seriously, I'm pointing out reasonable, logical reasons why it can't work the way everyone expects it to. Just because you can buy a horse doesn't mean you can haul him into a fiery underground complex without the horse freaking out on you. It may be a tactical encounter but it's still a roleplaying game, after all.

You're objections are realistic. Are games realistic in your general experience? Particularly ones that are specifically not simulationist? No?

Your comments are not relevant to RAW. Horses in 4e don't panic, and if something is 10ft high you can ride the Horse and the Horse can fit. No debate to be had.

Also your wife is a bad DM.

OP: Works fine.


Emphasis mine.

Alcestis' arguments are based logically and refute the idea that, by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan. The insult isn't even part of his argument. And for the record, he's right because there are no rules for horses getting scared or refusing to go places as far as I know.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


If the logical arguments were all that was needed, then why all the personal attacks on me?

And I submit that anything not specifically covered by the rulebook falls under the purview of the DM by default, so "horses in 4e don't panic" would therefore fall under the same Rule Zero.

My ultimate point is that you don't need to phase a horse through a wall (the point of even getting the horse to travel that far underground completely separate from the argument at hand) to succeed at a speed run. And I doubt many DMs would allow the rest of the dungeon to be trivialized in such a manner to begin with.
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.





...Couldn't resist.
If the logical arguments were all that was needed, then why all the personal attacks on me?

And I submit that anything not specifically covered by the rulebook falls under the purview of the DM by default, so "horses in 4e don't panic" would therefore fall under the same Rule Zero.

My ultimate point is that you don't need to phase a horse through a wall (the point of even getting the horse to travel that far underground completely separate from the argument at hand) to succeed at a speed run. And I doubt many DMs would allow the rest of the dungeon to be trivialized in such a manner to begin with.


emphasis mine

Sure that would be hard, but also magic. Sure you don't need to phase a horse through the wall, but RAW it's allowed and needing to or not isn't the point at all. It's about being able to. Why climb a mountain? So I can kick the god off the top and take his throne, because I can.

EDIT: OMG TERACIDE, you are my favorite person lolololol.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Just to interject some more realism, as it regards to D&D, fantasy and roleplaying. Wearing a suit of Full plate is exhausting, and people without armor hit by swords generally die immediately, so first: After a round or two in your full plate, you'll need to rest, and if you are unarmored and get hit by an attack, you die.

Inspired by JamesCarda.



Your assumption about fullplate is just wrong. Fullplate is not as limiting as some believe, when worn properly it doesn't even restrict movement as much as other armors.
Just to interject some more realism, as it regards to D&D, fantasy and roleplaying. Wearing a suit of Full plate is exhausting, and people without armor hit by swords generally die immediately, so first: After a round or two in your full plate, you'll need to rest, and if you are unarmored and get hit by an attack, you die.

Inspired by JamesCarda.



Your assumption about fullplate is just wrong. Fullplate is not as limiting as some believe, when worn properly it doesn't even restrict movement as much as other armors.


Well that's just nitpicking and doesn't circumvent the point of the post, which is that one of the main points of D&D is that it's not real.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.



(pic goes here)

...Couldn't resist.



Dude, you are my new favorite person on this forum.  Thanks for that bit of humor; it's easy to forget to laugh at myself now and then. X3
Of COURSE you don't use riding horses.

You use Riding Lizards (draft) for 200gp.  They come with 69 HP and decent defenses.  Then you ride your ghost-lizards straight to Mordai Vell.

Also everyone making "Well how would you get them down there?" etc objections:

Lair Assault is a challenge dungeon with very clearly defined limits.  Those limits are "Anything goes, level 5, these item rules".

Mounts are perfectly acceptable, and since the "Start Area" isn't even defined in Lair Assault, even a full party of 6 fits in the area before the first monster in the sample distribution.   
How many HP does a horse have?  I'm seeing a potential flaw in this, since unlike many modules, the DM is encouraged to customize the module to "deal" with the players. 
How many HP does a horse have?  I'm seeing a potential flaw in this, since unlike many modules, the DM is encouraged to customize the module to "deal" with the players. 



Shouldn't matter over much, once you are through the door and the fake wall, you don't need the horses any more. Getting out is for chumps.

Unless, seeing all of the rest of the party fly through the wall, the monsters decide to take the horse out from under the poor sod who rolled a 1 on initiative. 
Can you use the mount corpses as bridges over the lava in the altar room? Cause that'd be awesome.
Well, we didn't end up trying it since a couple new people showed up and were unprepared for our shenanigans. Not wanting to leave them behind we beat the wall down with brute force instead. While this worked, it was a bit slower and we didn't finish in 5 rounds. Oh well. We're thinking of trying a full party in Breaching Armor next since horses take up so much space.

Anyone have this award yet? What tricks did you use to get it?
Rule Zero doesn't exist in 4e btw


Hahaha, good one. I almost thought your post was serious until I got to that bit.

Rules Compendium, page 9: "If the rules don't cover a situation, the DM determines what to do."

So if you're finally done with personal attacks now, I'll let you all get back to making your respective DMs' lives a living purgatory. 
Better idea: How about you knock off your air of smug superiority and back up your own argument for once. All you've done is repeat yourself like a broken record, stating personal opinion as though it were concrete fact. And you can say that "it's not personal" all you like, but from my perspective, attacking my family is no different than attacking me.

Rules provide the framework. If the framework gets in the way, it's sometimes better to modify the framework than it is to forge ahead.

There's a huge difference between adhering to the rules and tweaking the semantics to make the rules say whatever you want them to.


I'm done here. Wasted words and all that.
I think voidsoul genasi can go though walls.

They can pick up some fire resist too.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I think voidsoul genasi can go though walls. They can pick up some fire resist too.


their racial does seem to imply that, though that only gets you through 1 door
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Wow there is a lot of vitriol over what was a reasonable statement and frankly a rather funny quote.  Quick recap JamesCarda says if I was DMing I wouldn't allow it due to size restrictions.  That's it he didn't say it will not work or it isn't allowed by the rules only that some DMs might have a problem with it.  Can anybody honestly say that every DM who ever runs this module would allow this?

Shrug whatever I would just suggest that everybody relaxes a bit.
How does someone run this Lair Assault business? Is it encounters only, because I am not overly interested in going to the shop to play with strangers :P.
Since our FLGS doesn't run Lair Assault, I feel I can't contribute to this discussion. Can someone point me to a site where I can get some more in-depth info on Lair Assault? (through PM is fine)
    I've removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.  You can review the Code of Conduct here.

Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Lair Assault is also very DM friendly in the sense that the DM gets to switch out monsters / the encounters / some of the effects in the area based on what the players bring.  The horse HP is that if the horses don't have enough HP, they might all auto-die in the first round, depending on what the DM brings out. 

Alternatively, if you're stuck waiting for the lowest initiative, there's a good chance the horses will get AoE'd and deadified as well. 
I think I might run this Lair Assault online a few times. My schedule has opened back up lately. I'd like to see how it goes.
Strategist's Epiphany for Initiative.
Breaching Armor for the first wall.
Flitting Shadows (from the NW Scion of Shadow theme) for the insubstantial, stealthed, and phasing for the rest?  

I don't know what the map is like, how much distance do you need to cover?  Maybe an Ardent with Mantle of Readiness?
Strategist's Epiphany for Initiative.
Breaching Armor for the first wall.
Flitting Shadows (from the NW Scion of Shadow theme) for the insubstantial, stealthed, and phasing for the rest?  

I don't know what the map is like, how much distance do you need to cover?  Maybe an Ardent with Mantle of Readiness?


The biggest problem with using Breaching Armor is (and I'm assuming this is fairly public knowledge at this point) that teleporting basically causes a fiery explosion at your point of origin that hits you and everyone around you. You'd have to figure out a way to space everyone out far enough to avoid taking piles of damage just from getting through the wall. All that and trying to figure out how to do it quickly is the issue.

I know that my table is planning on trying this tactic at some point, I'll let you know how it goes if/when they do. 
boo! the phasing bridles are better, because the breaching armor is going to cause a pileup on the other side of the wall unless you AP for the extra movement, or can get some kind of movement as a minor.  

besides:  if you think about it, the doors represent the LONG way.



as a wise, fictional dodgeball coach once said, "if you can phase through a door, you can phase through a wall."  or something like that, anyway.

INSIDE SCOOP, GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard

Strategist's Epiphany for Initiative.
Breaching Armor for the first wall.
Flitting Shadows (from the NW Scion of Shadow theme) for the insubstantial, stealthed, and phasing for the rest?  

I don't know what the map is like, how much distance do you need to cover?  Maybe an Ardent with Mantle of Readiness?


The biggest problem with using Breaching Armor is (and I'm assuming this is fairly public knowledge at this point) that teleporting basically causes a fiery explosion at your point of origin that hits you and everyone around you. You'd have to figure out a way to space everyone out far enough to avoid taking piles of damage just from getting through the wall. All that and trying to figure out how to do it quickly is the issue.

I know that my table is planning on trying this tactic at some point, I'll let you know how it goes if/when they do. 


everyone gets to the wall (assuming everyone is going right after eachother in initiative through delays) then readies for someone to say "Now." Whoever gets there last makes the same readied action, ends his turn and says "Now." Everyone teleports simultaneously and the explosions go off harmlessly back there.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


everyone gets to the wall (assuming everyone is going right after eachother in initiative through delays) then readies for someone to say "Now." Whoever gets there last makes the same readied action, ends his turn and says "Now." Everyone teleports simultaneously and the explosions go off harmlessly back there.


I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way, unfortunately. The explosion is a close burst 2 that hits everyone, including the person teleporting, for 10 fire. The origin square for the burst is the square you leave when you teleport, and based on how I'm reading this, it's effectively an immediate interrupt. So five people teleporting simultaneously would each take 50 fire damage before factoring in resistance.

It would actually be safer to go one at a time while everyone else stands three squares back to stay out of the blast. That's 80% less damage with only slightly more positioning involved. The biggest problem with that scenario would be that the first person to breach the wall would trigger initiative rolls for any enemies in the Forge and would probably be screaming "NOT THE FACE" by the time the rest of the party made it through the wall. So it's kind of a trade off.
Or just have everyone with a good stack of FR and teleport away. Minimal damage anyway.
Rules Compendium, page 9: "If the rules don't cover a situation, the DM determines what to do."

So if you're finally done with personal attacks now, I'll let you all get back to making your respective DMs' lives a living purgatory. 

Methinks you're completly missing the point of Lair Assault and/or the Character Optimization forums.

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