Trick Bind and Feldens cane

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If trick bind was used as a Feldons cane is being destroyed. Would it still be removed from the game? The trick bind caster claimed he could cancel the "reshuffle" effect but leave the "remove from the game" abilty.  Wouldn't trick bind cancel all the cards triggers, thus making the card useless till end of turn?
Always go by the Gatherer text, not what's printed on the card. The cost of activating the Cane's ability is tapping it and exiling the Cane (since they're both listed before the colon). If you Trickbind the ability, the Cane will remain in exile. They do not get the Cane back.

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If trick bind was used as a Feldons cane is being destroyed. Would it still be removed from the game? The trick bind caster claimed he could cancel the "reshuffle" effect but leave the "remove from the game" abilty.  Wouldn't trick bind cancel all the cards triggers, thus making the card useless till end of turn?



Exiling Feldon's Cane is part of the cost of activating the ability.  If the ability has been activated, the Cane is in Exile.

Feldon's cane has an activated ability.  The cost to activate the ability is to tap the cane and exile it.  Being that it's a cost if trickbind was used on the ability then the cane would stay exiled.  Much the same way when you counter a spell the person doesn't get the mana back from the spell, same situation here.

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If trick bind was used as a Feldons cane is being destroyed. Would it still be removed from the game? The trick bind caster claimed he could cancel the "reshuffle" effect but leave the "remove from the game" abilty.  Wouldn't trick bind cancel all the cards triggers, thus making the card useless till end of turn?

Feldon's Cane's Oracle text is:
, Exile Feldon's Cane: Shuffle your graveyard into your library.

That is, it has one activated ability; nothing "triggers" at all.
With activated abilities, everything before the colon is the cost of activating the ability and happens as you put the ability on the stack.
Costs are not refunded when spells and abilities are countered; the cane will stay exiled.
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Can the caster of Trick Bind decide which activated or triggered abilities he counters? Or does the spell stop all activated or triggered abilites? i.e no reshuffle and no exile
Can the caster of Trick Bind decide which activated or triggered abilities he counters? Or does the spell stop all activated or triggered abilites? i.e no reshuffle and no exile


If there are multiple abilities to choose from, the caster of trickbind picks one as the target. However, feldon's cane creates only one ability.
Can the caster of Trick Bind decide which activated or triggered abilities he counters? Or does the spell stop all activated or triggered abilites? i.e no reshuffle and no exile

Trickbind (one word, BTW) can only be used to counter an activated or triggered ability on th stack. That is, they have to wait for their opponent to activate somethign, or for an ability to trigger, before they can even cast it. Only once that particular ability has been countered, by the trickbind spell ersolving, does the secondary effect come into play and stop further activations (of all activated abilities of the affected permanent).
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Can the caster of Trick Bind decide which activated or triggered abilities he counters? Or does the spell stop all activated or triggered abilites? i.e no reshuffle and no exile


You're not understanding the answers given.  Exiling Feldon's Cane is part of the COST of activating the ability.  There is no triggered ability on Feldon's Cane.

Also, Trickbind says to "counter target activated or triggered ability."  Meaning that you have to pick which ability you are targeting when you cast it.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
Ok, I see one of the problems .There is more then one wording for the cane. Mine reads "[Tap]. Reshuffle your graveyard into your library. Remove Feldon's cane from the game." So my question was if I couldn't fufill the reshuffle ability do I still need to pay the remove cost?
  Also, Thanks Rose. I couldn't figure out why my autocards didn't work  
Ok, I see one of the problems .There is more then one wording for the cane. Mine reads "[Tap]. Reshuffle your graveyard into your library. Remove Feldon's cane from the game." So my question was if I couldn't fufill the reshuffle ability do I still need to pay the remove cost?
  Also, Thanks Rose. I couldn't figure out why my autocards didn't work
Always use the current Oracle wording on Gatherer.
gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx

 
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
Ok, I see one of the problems .There is more then one wording for the cane. Mine reads "[Tap]. Reshuffle your graveyard into your library. Remove Feldon's cane from the game." So my question was if I couldn't fufill the reshuffle ability do I still need to pay the remove cost?
  Also, Thanks Rose. I couldn't figure out why my autocards didn't work

Countering does not stop you from paying the cost. The card would still be removed even if you were using the old wording.
Ok, I see one of the problems .There is more then one wording for the cane. Mine reads "[Tap]. Reshuffle your graveyard into your library. Remove Feldon's cane from the game." So my question was if I couldn't fufill the reshuffle ability do I still need to pay the remove cost?
  Also, Thanks Rose. I couldn't figure out why my autocards didn't work

Countering does not stop you from paying the cost. The card would still be removed even if you were using the old wording.


Not true, or at least not obviously true. There's nothing in the original or Chronicles wording to indicate that exiling the Cane is a cost. (Compare the various "do X to do Y" wordings that were common back then, which did indicate that the stuff before "to" was a cost.) If what you say was true, it would have to have been because of a card-specific ruling, because your conclusion does not follow just from the text on the card.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Well there's an issues here.

That is the opposite of what everybody else prior said, but interestingly in line with what I said in the aforementioned game. I did not think it was part of the casting cost but an effect of the card.

My argument was I was trickbinding only the reshuffle and the remove would still happen.

Assuming it is not part of the casting cost and an effect of the card
The card states I counter "target" Activated or Triggered ability. I targeted Reshuffle so remove would still happen correct.

I need an answer assuming its an ability because Dr Bell agrees with you and says Trickbind cancels all abilities of the card even though it says it doesn't.
There is no argument or issue. The Oracle text (which is the official text and the only one that matters) is very clear:

Tap, Exile Feldon's Cane: Shuffle your graveyard into your library.
 
The costs to activate the ability are tapping the Cane and exiling it. The effect of the ability is shuffle your graveyard into your library. When you activate the ability (before anyone can respond) the Cane is exiled. Trickbinding it will stop the shuffle, but will not refund any costs. Cane stays exiled.

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"That's what's so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know," Rincewind said. "You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next."

- Terry Pratchett, The Colour Of Magic

Feldon's Cane stays exiled for the same reason that if someone Canceled a spell you cast, you don't get the mana back that you spent on it.  The exiling of Feldon's Cane is part of its COST.  Costs are not refundable just because the spell/ability got countered.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
My argument was I was trickbinding only the reshuffle and the remove would still happen.

Assuming it is not part of the casting cost and an effect of the card
The card states I counter "target" Activated or Triggered ability. I targeted Reshuffle so remove would still happen correct.


The target (what Trickbind counters) is an ability.  NOT one sentence out of an ability.
112.2c An object may have multiple abilities. If the object is represented by a card, then aside from certain defined abilities that may be strung together on a single line (see rule 702, "Keyword Abilities"), each paragraph break in a card's text marks a separate ability. If the object is not represented by a card, the effect that created it may have given it multiple abilities. An object may also be granted additional abilities by a spell or ability. If an object has multiple instances of the same ability, each instance functions independently. This may or may not produce more effects than a single instance; refer to the specific ability for more information.


Not that it matters for Feldon's Cane.
_Magic: The Gathering_ Comprehensive Rules

108. Cards

108.1. Use the Oracle_(TM) card reference when determining a card's wording. A card's Oracle text can be found using the Gatherer card database at <gatherer.wizards.com>.


According to rule 108.1, by the time you can even try to use Trickbind on the ability of Feldon's Cane, that card has already been exiled and won't be coming back.

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

Well there's an issues here.

That is the opposite of what everybody else prior said,

No, if it appears that way to you you're misreading something.
My argument was I was trickbinding only the reshuffle and the remove would still happen.

Well first of all, you Trickbind an entire ability, not one sentence of one, and on any version of the card's text, Feldon's Cane has only one ability.

Assuming it is not part of the casting cost and an effect of the card
The card states I counter "target" Activated or Triggered ability. I targeted Reshuffle so remove would still happen correct.

You have things so confused it's difficult to know where to begin correcting you.

On the original, printed wording (as I read it): Exiling the Cane and shuffling the graveyard into the library are all part of ONE (1) ability. You Trickbind the whole thing, or nothing. There is no way to Trickbind just part of an ability.

On the current, Oracle wording: Exiling the cane is part of the cost of the ability. It is not possible to Trickbind this, because by the time you can play Trickbind it's already happened. Trickbinding the ability does prevent the shuffling aspect. So you get the end result you want, yes, but you still seem to misunderstand why.

An activated ability is written in Cost: Effect format (look for the colon). A Triggered ability starts with "At", "When" or "Whenever"; there is no version of Feldon's Cane's text where it has any triggered abilities. (Complicating matters a little, some activated abilities do set up what are known as delayed triggered abilities, which it's possible to Trickbind separately. But Feldon's Cane isn't one of them.)
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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