Pronelord, wheee

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Disclaimer
This build was built around the idea of using Polearm Momentum to hand enemies to allies on a silver platter. It does this by moving them around the battlefield and proning them while granting allies lots of attacks.

To achieve this, sadly the build has to sacrifice some of the core abilities of a warlord, such as healing. It is still decent at this, just not great. It does, however, play as a good off-defender, so it'll reduce healing needed in other ways too. 

Polearm Momentum and the required weapons are the core of the build, but everything else is pretty interchangable to suit fluff and/or personal character choices or optimisations.


Build goals
+ Make a Polearm Momentum character built off a Warlord chassis.
+ Be a frontline-ish defender-ish leader-ish character.
+ Grant lots of attacks!

This character is, i believe, best seen as a secondary leader rather than a primary one. It can stand its own but it lacks the pure leaderishness one would usually expect from a Warlord as it makes several sacrifices to obtain the Polearm Momentum shenanigan set. It is therefore more a leader/defender/striker than a pure leader.

It takes a lot of gambles in battle, as dictated by the Bravura presense, but they generally aren't really gambles at all. Brash Strike, as an example, actually makes you tougher overall when you use it.

Roleplay wise, i imagine this character as a sort of frenzied... well Warlord, just sort of bounding across the battlefield knocking people off their feet and leaving and creating openings all over for his allies (and sometimes enemies) to abuse.

Synergies
This build has a lot of expected and unexpected surprises in its repertoire, and i'm sure i've missed several. Here are a few of them:

Brash Assault + (AP) Provoke Overextension
Hit something with Brash Assault, slide+prone it (adjacent). At this point your enemy has a choice to make, try to hit you at -3 to-hit (prone negates the CA granted by Brash Assault, and you get +3 untyped to defenses) or do nothing. Obviously the best choice (for you) would be if he tried to attack you, so you could give an ally a BA. Even if it doesn't though, you can AP for Provoke Overextension to really ruin his day. If you hit, the enemy has to make a BA targeting you, at another +3AC, and this one doesn't grant CA, so he's at a rather large -8 effective to-hit. Then if he misses (against 35 effective AC), an ally gets to take a swing at him at +3 damage! Note that Provoke Overextension states a BA rather than an MBA, so if you're hitting something with a ranged weapon, leave him 1 square away after your slide from Provoke Overextension so the forced BA makes him also provoke an OA.

End result:
3[W] + 2xStr damage, and 1-2 granted MBAs and a possible OA. You also get a +3 untyped bonus to defenses against the target UEOYNT.

Opening Shove + Polearm shenanigans
Opening Shove! Not too great a power on its own, but combined with Polearm Momentum and a push 1 slide 2 from MoS + Rushing Cleats it is quite a nice way to deliver someone an enemy on a silver platter. You get to push and slide him around, and you knock him prone, so he grants CA, and you give your ally an MBA.

End result:
Enemy push-slid to anywhere within a close burst 3-ish and prone, 1 granted MBA.

Opening Shove + Agile Opportunist
This, i think, is the real value of Opening Shove. Push your ally 1 and slide him 2 (it might be a good idea not to knock him prone) and give him an MBA from Agile Opportunist. Another ally gets to shift -1 (wheee) or make an MBA against the first ally.

End result:
Ally repositioned, 1 granted MBA (or 2 if you have an evil party member).

Staggering Spin + Mark of Storms + Rushing Cleats
Close burst 1, push 1 slide 2 and prone, any enemy that ends up next to an ally provokes an OA (nice if they have HBO), what's not to love. Massive battlefield repositioning and several attacks. If you only have one MBA-sporting ally, slide them all next to him, because the attacks he gets are OAs rather than free actions!

End result:
Unhappy enemies. 

CB Summary
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Orc, Warlord, Kulkor Arms Master
Archer Warlord Optional Choice: Standard Warlord Armor Features
Warlord: Combat Leader
Commanding Presence: Bravura Presence

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 14, Dex 15, Int 9, Wis 15, Cha 16.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 13.

AC: 27 Fort: 24 Reflex: 20 Will: 22
HP: 76 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 19

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +17, History +9, Athletics +17, Heal +12, Intimidate +15
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +4, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +7, Insight +7, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +4, Stealth +7, Streetwise +8, Thievery +7

FEATS
Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 2: Harlequin Style
Level 4: Armor Proficiency: Scale
Level 6: Battle Awareness
Level 8: Improved Inspiring Word (retrained to Kulkor Battlearm Student at Level 11)
Level 10: Mark of Storm
Level 11: Polearm Momentum

POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Opening Shove
Warlord at-will 1: Brash Assault
Warlord encounter 1: Vengeance is Mine
Warlord daily 1: Relentless Wounding
Warlord utility 2: Knight's Move
Warlord encounter 3: No Gambit Is Wasted
Warlord daily 5: Staggering Spin
Warlord utility 6: Rousing Words
Warlord encounter 7: Provoke Overextension
Warlord daily 9: Warlord's Recovery
Warlord utility 10: Instant Planning

ITEMS
Lightning Glaive +2, Dwarven Mekillot Scale Armor +3, Amulet of Protection +3, Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Reading Spectacles (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======


Variants

Int-based version, probably not using Brash Strike.

Level 6 version
Polearm Momentum on Opening Shove and not much else, functions as a normal warlord for the most part. Opening Shove is slightly less versatile on this one as you don't get the slide, so you can no longer position enemies everywhere. You do, however, still leave them prone, and an ally gets to whack them.
On the other hand, Opening Shove now allows a shift of 1 (because of tactician's armor)!
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 6
Half-Orc, Warlord
Archer Warlord Optional Choice: Standard Warlord Armor Features
Warlord: Combat Leader
Commanding Presence: Bravura Presence

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 13, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.

AC: 21 Fort: 19 Reflex: 16 Will: 17
HP: 50 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +11, History +8, Athletics +12, Heal +10, Intimidate +9
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +3, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +5, Insight +5, Nature +5, Perception +5, Religion +3, Stealth +5, Streetwise +2, Thievery +5

FEATS
Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 2: Battle Awareness
Level 4: Armor Proficiency: Scale
Level 6: Polearm Momentum

POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Direct the Strike
Warlord at-will 1: Opening Shove
Warlord encounter 1: Vengeance is Mine
Warlord daily 1: Relentless Wounding
Warlord utility 2: Knight's Move
Warlord encounter 3: No Gambit Is Wasted
Warlord daily 5: Staggering Spin
Warlord utility 6: Rousing Words

ITEMS
Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Magic Glaive +2, Amulet of Life +1, Tactician's Scale Armor +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======




Full writeup coming up. 
Any particular reason you went with a Glaive and Kulkor? Now that Flail Expertise is a thing, you'd probably do better with the Triple-Headed Flail and the Chainbinder (Rending Chains) PP.

I mean, I'm assuming you based this on a Warlord for a reason. You may as well do some leading.
Because it's a build for the Polearm Momentum handbook. Kulkor was a pretty random choice though, there's no real reason for it.

And yeah, it is rather weak on the leader side, its heals are meh, but it should grant a decent amount of attacks, and deal some damage on its own. 
Yea, this is a build made to show off a Polearm Momentum warlord, so flails are not applicable.  The point is to deliver lots of prone enemies to allies and then grant nasty basic attacks (because of the combat advantage) to said allies, and also to reposition enemies.  Works well in tandem with a competent defender, especially a fighter who marks the enemy with his melee basic attack and locks it down.

I'm ashamed to say it never occurred to me to use opening shove to target an ally.  Dumb me.  :D  That's actually a great way to reposition allies, especially since that same ally can be the one granted a shift with the same power (though the shift isn't happening with those stats -- int as a dump stat hurts there).  Can an ally willfully fail to avoid the hit, or do you still have to roll the attack?

More healing might be a good idea, but warlords are not focused healers like their cleric brethren.  They're more focused on other leaderly actions like granting free attacks, passing out buffs and debuffs, and repositioning allies & enemies.  There are several encounter utilities (including skill powers) that would improve your per-encounter heal capacity, though some are standard actions and you want to be actively attacking each turn as a warlord (you're not building as a pacifist healing cleric).  You already have Rousing Words and Inspiring Word, and trying too much to be a different leader may not be effective.  If there's something you can do to get a major boost then consider it, but don't stop doing what you do best for a small bonus to healing.

I love Vengeance is Mine -- it encourages enemies to stay off the leader, or else punishes them with up to 2 out-of-turn basic attacks.  The other powers are excellent for granting buffs and bonus attacks too.

Kulkor is good in this build for the extra attack that can be gained about every turn, but other options include a heal or buff-focused warlord PP (more warlord-specific features).  Your wisdom is too low to put a Moonstalker to full effect.  If you like goliaths, stoneblessed will give you improved reach, which is great in the hands of a warlord who wants to stand back a bit or work with ally positioning.  That said, Kulkor is a nice choice for dishing out extra pain.

I imagine you're considering polearm gamble (and possibly heavy blade opportunity) in paragon.  That would help deter melee enemies from approaching you, and you could send enemies flying to your defender ally if they do violate the wall of death.  It's not necessary though if you can't spare the feats, or if you don't think you'll get enough use out of 'em.

I hadn't seen harlequin style before.  Nice use of a cha-focused warlord that's proning enemies.  I like your combo that exploits that with provoke overextension.  Delightfully evil.

Nicely done.  I'll add a link to this from the guide.  Please do fill out the full write-up when you can!
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
I originally had it planned out to level 12, with Polearm Gamble and Lend Might retrained into HBO (this was before Kulkor and Scale armor made its way into the build), because granting off-turn MBAs with Opening Shove/Brash Strike and PG would be deliciously mean. However, it is more details at this point, because i've got the full build going at 11.

I'm not sure if allies can choose not to block Opening Shove, that'd be great, but even if they don't it targets Reflex and your to-hit isn't too miserable so you'll be hitting decently anyway. I agree that the loss of the shift feature is a pain (assuming allies aren't supposed to shift 1 backwards), but i liked cha for this build.

I'll probably do an int variant, but it'll be quite different. I'll also do a lower level variant that just uses Opening Shove to deliver prone enemies all around. 


Kulkor, as i said, was a rather random choice, and can easily be changed to anything else that might help the build. Polearm Master could work too, threatening reach is sweet.  
I actually have a (somewhat weaker) warlord build I can post that doesn't use mark of storm.  It's an intelligence warlord, but Int starts low (13) due to grabbing PM by level 4 and it has no Con to speak of (uses hide armor and high dex instead of scale).  Always a cost.    I'll probably also provide a higher-int version that grabs PM later (L8 or 11).
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Ah, i just finished deleveling this build to a somewhat lazier level 6 version. :P

It is quite a lot weaker, sadly, but you do get a shift of 1 from Opening Shove now. I suppose going dex and hide is actually the way to high AC, but scale has some nice enchantments for warlords, such as tactician's, which helps when you have a terribad stat spread. ;)

You can do the high-int version if you'd like, i'll just work on other stuff. I've thought about it for a while, and was rather sad to find that it's impossible to get PM working on DtS or Commander's Strike, though i suppose it's to be expected. The problem i ran into is that when you build towards PM it's so much easier if you have something that already favours one of the three stats required for it. Lazy Warlords are quite a pain because of that.
Sounds good to me.

BTW I don't entirely trust the hide armor route past heroic.  Once better armors become available, scale starts to win hands down.  The problem is, I hosed my con for an early PM start so... no scale for me.  ;)  It's a good plan for a heroic-only build, but otherwise the cost to defenses may start to hurt too much.  I'll try to reflect that in my early- and late-starting versions of the build.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
That is true, i think when i checked (quickly) at level 11, hide+dex was 1AC behind chain, which is why i made the call to go for heavier armor, scale followed semi-naturally.

Will you be posting your builds in a seperate topic or in here so i can list them in the original post? 
opening shove lets an ally make a BA against the target you hit with opening shove.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


ryuwizard98:
Yup, and by then the target is prone so they also have CA (which rogues and some other characters will love, not just for the +2 to attack).

Teracide:
I had been planning to just post it in the handbook as a single post, and I could direct-link to it from there.  It was a lazy solution that worked for me, and I could keep editing it as I refined it.  :D  I may make a separate thread later after I'm done refining it, if I want to turn it over for larger community feedback,  Actually that would be a good plan -- I want to make sure the build is effective, and people on these forums know things I'd never figure out on my own.


Also, I noticed your disclaimer.  It's a good idea, though I think you're massively underselling your build.  After all, that disclaimer is the first thing readers see, and it doesn't paint a glowing picture of the build they're about to read.

My recommendation: Don't phrase it as "this is a poor-stats build that's just here to prove a concept/made for a handbook".  Instead phrase it as something similar to "This build is focused on using Polearm Momentum to prone enemies and deliver them to allies for their exploitation.  PM lets it prone at-will, and it grants lots of free attacks for allies to hit the prone enemy with CA.  Its healing is unoptimized and Cha and Int features suffer quite a bit because of PM's requirements, but it pays off with the constant forced movement, proning, and other mean tricks it pulls off.  PM and polearms/spears are the core focus of this build, but other aspects are very open to shuffling."

That way you acknowledge the build's weaknesses without disregarding its strengths, and you set the ground rules of what stays in.  My version is long and wordy and is probably trying too hard, so write it in your own words.  I just don't want the disclaimer undercutting people's view of your build, so explaining the trade-off helps.  Saying this is a build with unoptimized stats that's only made for a handbook is not a glowing endorsement of an otherwise awesome character.

So in other words, your int and cha are lower, but you get PM in return.  If that's a worth-while trade, flaunt it.  Otherwise I should probably rate warlord lower in my PM handbook for its MAD stats.  ;)


BTW, other paragon path ideas include those that favor lightning.  Since you're relying on a lightning weapon for mark of storm for many of your attacks, something that lets you ignore lightning resistance and/or gives a bonus to lightning attack/damage rolls would be a great idea.  I've forgotten which ones those were, but I can look them up later.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
i meant that opening shove doesn't work with agile opportunist
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


It does; Opening Shove has a dual function, either push 1 and an ally you can see shifts int, or push 1 and an ally you can see makes a BA against the target. If you use Opening Shove on an ally, you can just make the other guy shift.

And good idea on the rephrasing of the disclaimer, i'll try to make something nice out of it. 
It does; Opening Shove has a dual function, either push 1 and an ally you can see shifts int, or push 1 and an ally you can see makes a BA against the target. If you use Opening Shove on an ally, you can just make the other guy shift.

And good idea on the rephrasing of the disclaimer, i'll try to make something nice out of it. 


i guess, it seems kinda bag o' rats-ish though
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Bag o' rats-ish how?

Also, where does that term originate? 
Bag o' rats-ish how?

Also, where does that term originate? 


It's a rule that says you can't gain a benefit by attacking a non-threatening creature, or something along those lines. The name comes from the example that you can't carry around a bag of rats and hit them to grant benefits to allies.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


I assume Bag o' rats-ish refers to strategies like tossing out a rat as a minor action, attacking it, and cleaving into a high-defense enemy for str mod damage (and similar shenanigans). (edit: ninja'd twice!  I'm slow.)

I don't think it's anywhere near that munchkin.  A warlord pushing an ally to assist a flying attack at an enemy makes sense to me, and they each had to put some investment into doing it (warlord has the at-will, and ally has to have agile opportunist).  Plus the warlord is using his standard action to do this -- you're not gaining attacks this way, the ally is just attacking for you after some repositioning.

Frankly, I imagine agile opportunist to be designed for exactly such a thing.  The party leader or controller slides his ally into an enemy, and ally attacks.  The only time option is to use it when an enemy pulls/pushes/slides you next to itself or another enemy, but the feat isn't worded to limit it to that.  Doesn't even seem intended to have that limit.

Other people may disagree with me though, and it's ultimately up to your DM, but it's not so powerful or such a stretch of the imagination that I would consider blocking it as a DM.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Hm, i suppose. But it's basically the same as just plain bull rushing them isn't it? Besides, it's not like you're attacking a level 1 helpless rat, you actually still have to roll a str vs ref attack on your ally.

I'll add a note saying DMs might turn it down anyway.

Edit: I very much agree with Wazat that i don't see my DM blocking it. Similar shenanigans can be had with Arcane Whirlwind, and that doesn't even require a roll.  If anything, you can invoke the rule of cool if you're using it on a dwarf. 
Bag o' rats-ish how?

Also, where does that term originate? 


In 3E, the Cleave and Whirlwind Attack feats could be combined, so that you make an attack against all targets in reach, and then for each target you drop, you get a free attack against one other target in reach. A fighter would carry a bag full of rats, then when he wants to destroy one target, he dumps out the rats, then makes a whirlwind attack. The rats have such low AC, and so few hit points, that he is virtually guaranteed to kill all the rats. Each rat he kills allows him a free attack on the actual target. In this way, a fighter could make a few dozen attacks a round. 3.5E fixed the wording on one feat or the other so that the trick didn't work anymore.

In 4E, a rule was created that is known as the Bog 'O Rats rule, which prevents characters from benefiting from hitting/killing targets unless that target posed a real threat.
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Teracide:
Non Mark of Storm warlord posted here for comments.  I think it's weak in its defenses because it grabs PM too early.  I'm willing to toss my int score for con and scale armor if that will help, since I don't use int that often, and probably wait till L8 or 11 for PM.

I did get some good ideas from your build though!

What do you think of the trade-off of switching from glaive to heavy shield + trident?  +1 AC & Reflex (over having hafted defense) and access to the Battering Shield feat and magic item independence, but loss of reach, PG access, and other polearm benefits.  Possibly more.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
I think in your case switching to a spear+shield build is better. You can keep your int bonus- though you might want to pick up some more things that use it. No reach is a shame, but with PM you're going to be drawing a lot of (ranged) heat, so you'll enjoy a higher AC and Reflex. I think your build is more about running in Heroic anyway, so loss of PG shouldn't worry you too much (it wouldn't worry me either, but it just happens i have the stats and the weapon for it ;)).

Besides, as a Goliath, you can pick up Stoneblessed for +1 reach anyway can't you? 
Yea, that's the plan (stoneblessed seemed like the best outlet for a warlord, other than a warlord-specific PP).  3 reach can be really helpful too (can still reach them after a push 2 & prone, and better positioning), but 2 with a shield may be just about perfect.  That's actually a good reason to carry the build into paragon.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Teracide, do you mind if I put in a chainbinder variant in here? I've been playing one remarkably close to this for a while and was going to go chainbinder until very recently.
Chainbinder... That would be one of the new fancy flail prone builds i assume? Feel free to post it, since it's not a Polearm Momentum build i'll just put it as another variant if you don't mind.

It's always good to get a different angle on things.

Anyway, just post it with some writeup around it and i'll link to your post because i'm lazy. 
I'm glad flails are getting some good support now.  For too long they were severely under-represented in good feats and other options.  Even the paragon paths did little to turn them into mainstream options anywhere near heavy blades, hammers and spears.

I just wish WOTC wasn't so slow to update the compendium with this stuff...  >_>
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
So am i. I'm sad that polearms are kind of losing their only niche though. The flail combo is just so much easier to do if all you're after is prone enemies. It also doesn't need an item to function, at most two feats (with no requirements).

Thankfully, i think polearms still keep their niche-est niche of being just a plain mean defender weapon when coupled with PG and HBO and all other shenanigans you can pull. Sadly, it costs a ridiculous amount of investment to get it.

I can imagine some axe and flail wielding Avenger with KAM would be fairly mean, though two expertise feats is painful. Fun times though, get power strike and the flail feat for it, hit things, knock them prone, get a KAM attack with the axe, and another when they stand up (and then you re-prone them with Overwhelming Strike). 
Yea, I'm half-expecting people to start appearing in my Polearm Momentum thread and demanding that it be closed as a moot discussion of an obsolete feat.  :D
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
They don't really have a reason to; I mean, if the machine gun breathing mini-guide can exist while the Ancient Soul feat offers a massive easy argument for DMs to shut it down ("Dragon Breath isn't expended when you use it, so Ancient Soul doesn't trigger" if you were wondering) then yours can surely exist, if only to bring about more cheesy defenders. ;)

Besides, it still is a viable combo, especially for classes that have easy access to it. Also, i just realised an Eternal Defender (i think) Avenger with dual halberds and polearm momentum and twin strike and headman's chop and all the paragon/epic feats to trick out PM would be excessively mean. HBO and Glaive is probably more hilarious, in retrospect, when they approach, whack them twice, getting headman's chop damage at least once and proning them and stuff.
Halberd i think would allow that feat to let you push on a miss, but you're an avenger, you're not going to.

...and i just realised that wouldn't work because Adept Dilettante is a MC feat, locking you into ranger. Could do it with Traveler's Harlequin, but you'd lose KAM, which is a shame because KAM is hilarious.

Edit: Yes, i do indeed just type what i think at the time, and as such some of my brainstorm posts become quite a mess. 
Haha.

Actually, I can think of one thing Polearm Momentum can do that Flail Expertise cannot, besides polearm-only feats like PG.  I haven't seen the exact wording of Flail Expertise, but I'm betting it's like the others in that it's weapon attacks only.  If that's the case, spellcasters like Wizard will still want to do either WSG or PM, depending on their focus.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
According to one of Khan's (i believe) posts it's melee weapon attacks only, so you can't even use it with thrown flails. I actually like the idea of making something that uses a cahulaks though, dual grappling hooks is pretty awesome.
Dual grapple, nice.

So it looks like PM and WSG offer:
-Spell support
-Ranged (especially thrown) weapon support
-Close attack support
-WSG works with all weapon types, most often hammers (but requires slow)
-PM comines with spear and polearm fun, like Polearm Gamble

Flail expertise offers greater ease of use (a couple feats and a flail and you have the combo).  I wonder if proning Warlords like ours would be significantly better off with flails then, or if PM is still offering more (e.g. close attacks and PG).

Edit: Is there a good way to do tables in the forum?  I know they're crazy easy in wiki format.  I want to make a table that compares all 3 feats... that would rock in the handbook and give people a good idea of which feat they want.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Well, the tradeoff would be that a flail-lord would lose less on proning, so he has more leading capabilities. Adversely, the polearm-lord gives up some leading for striker/defenderishness.

Also:
 











ab
cd


Looks like you can do tables. I don't know if there's an easier way than just html-ing them in though.
Ouch, okay.  Html it is, then.  :D

Yea, I'm guessing flails are better for warlords unless you want to abuse their few close bursts, or play a proning rangelord somehow.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Ooh i just realised something reading a post... somewhere on this forum! 

When this build hits level 12 it can abuse Polearm Gamble + HBO, which would be a brilliant way to 'force' the Brash Assault granted attack! Since if your Brash Assault hits, the enemy has a choice of either attacking you or getting stuck prone etc, so attacking actually becomes a viable option! This is because it's better to be stuck prone maybe having done damage to the warlord than it is to merely be prone.

Anyway, my next project will be a Cleric i think.
Clerics are tough unless you're doing melee (and mark of storm helps a lot there).  I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with.

Brash Strike grants combat advantage, not an attack.  Unless you're thinking of something else?  Or am I misunderstanding?
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Clerics are tough unless you're doing melee (and mark of storm helps a lot there).  I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with.

Brash Strike grants combat advantage, not an attack.  Unless you're thinking of something else?  Or am I misunderstanding?


idk about what teracide is talking about, but you could do it with the riposte thing that rogues get right?
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Rogues are one of the few classes that cannot do PM builds really at all (except on basic attacks, which would suck), because there are no spears/polearms that work with their powers.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Rogues are one of the few classes that cannot do PM builds really at all (except on basic attacks, which would suck), because there are no spears/polearms that work with their powers.


you could always take the feat that lets you use a HB for rogue powers tho...i forget the name
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Yea, I've tried that route.  Unfortunately, it's only 1-handed heavy blades.  No spears or polearms that are also heavy blades meet this criteria.  If you think you have a way to get rogues functioning well with PM, and you research it and discover it's right, let me know.  I'd be delighted to have them working.

Otherwise, rogues need to settle with WSG or some other means for proning at-will.
When my computer inevitably explodes and kills me, my cat inherits everything I own. He may be the only one capable of continuing my work. And Stay Down: The Polearm Momentum Handbook
Yea, I've tried that route.  Unfortunately, it's only 1-handed heavy blades.  No spears or polearms that are also heavy blades meet this criteria.  If you think you have a way to get rogues functioning well with PM, and you research it and discover it's right, let me know.  I'd be delighted to have them working.

Otherwise, rogues need to settle with WSG or some other means for proning at-will.


I will investigate

Edit: it's a little MAD, and requires dwarf, but Tunnel Stalker allows you to use a Gouge(any axe) on rogue attacks in exchange for a SA die, which it kinda makes up since it's 2d6 weapon damage :D
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Whoops, i meant Brash Assault.

Also, Clerics hve surprisingly easy access to PM. They have two at-will non-crap thunder powers, one of which gives a -2 penalty, and the other can be used on a charge. I'm still trying to decide on stats though. As powers go, the Str ones are significantly more attractive to melee clerics than the Wis ones. On the other hand, both of the at-wills are based on Wis. I'm thinking it's best to go with a balanced build, but that'll be absolutely crap for my to-hit and basically everything.

Probably going to just primary Wis, dex as needed, and secondary str. Battle Cleric's lore obviously for scale. ;)