09/19/2011 Feature: "Innistrad Card Image Gallery"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Feature Article, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Very interesting! So new policy is presumably to reveal all cards on the Monday before the pre-release!

Makes a lot more sense to me. Although it feels less and less like the preview that I used to think it was, this was going to happen anyway, specially given past shenanigans.
Liars, it hasn't been updated yet

i got to say one thing where is all the fight i think this bs i know this is top down but that is not cool

Some disparate observations:

It kind of warms my heart to see the random fox in the set, though I don't know what that has to do with horror.

Not sure I like Cloistered Youth.  Seems like a very black card which requires no black commitment.

With all the transform cards revealed, it seems pretty clear that transform is there to facilitate werewolves.  The only other card which couldn't have been done in a similar form is Garruk, but that was designed after werewolves and double sided cards had been thrown in the set.

This set looks like it will play pretty well with itself.  I'm not sure how I feel about the human theme outside of the set though.  It seems like there are enough humans that most of the time you will try using a card that helps humans, and have it randomly work about half the time (at least when you aren't using fatties).  Seems kind of weird.

The art for this set seems to have raised the bar overall.

I like that this set doesn't feel tied to gimmicky mechanics.  Now, don't get me wrong, the double faced cards do feel somewhat gimmicky, and I have reservations about them, but it is clear that they were created to try to help the set and not to be built around.  What I mean it doesn't seem like this set was built by naming a bunch of cool mechanics, and then figuring out how to make an environment where those mechanics work.  And I like that.  Feels more like the very early sets (almost an Alpha vibe).
Seeing all the cards in the set, I'm thinking that the Innistrad block should have been it's own seperate offshoot of magic. I think the cards may create interesting play against other cards in the set and eventually the block, but as far as MTG and MTG Standard in particular, I just think Innistrad is horrible.

I really didn't care for the SoM block. Core 2012 is the worst core set I've ever seen and now we get this wierd set that falls completely flat.

I think MTG set design is completely off the tracks and things seem to be getting worse, rather than better. I think the new Standard is going to be cringe worthy for a lot of players. There will always be winning deck strategies to be built and played, but I no longer feel that Magic offers anything in the standard environment that can't be found in any CCG. It's all just so generic and boring and even transforming cards just feel like a pointless gimmick, rather than an innovation.

Those at WotC that had been very resistant to this classic horror themed block should have stuck to their guns. This set (and block) would have made a better limited edition game seperate from MTG than a MTG expansion. They could even have done horror with a MTG flavor, but that's not what happened. Instead we got old fashioned Gothic Horror that doesn't even do a very good job at being that.

I think I'm done with the game for a while. I'll peek back in when the next block launches, but with the sets designed so far in advance, I think the process of recorrecting the game's course is going to take a while, assuming they even realize that the game design has taken a wrong turn.

This set doesn't feel at all like Magic.
There's such a dissonance with this set. I want to hate it because it introduces the dumbest mechanic since banding but at the same time there are a bunch of awesome spells I can't wait to start slinging. I imagine I'll just purchase the ones I like as singles and skip out on drafting this set.
One of my new favorite cards is Tree of Redemption. First off, its a 0/13 defender for 4 mana. That is already ridiculous seeing as that white treefolk is a 2/10 for 4. 13 defense is probably like in the top 10 or maybe even 5. You also get an ability that is telling me to build around it. Your opponent would need to do 13 points of damage on one turn (more considering you can tap it as an instant, so probably over 20). Equip some slagworm armors to this bad boy and you're good to go!

Seriously, one of the coolest cards ever. Why isn't it a legend? Is it so I can have multiples on the field to make me even more unstoppable?
well after seeing all the cards im not super impressed nothing truly was jaw dropping to me, but while playing something might jump out i hope so.. and i agree the artwork is really awesome on alot of cards.

i was hoping for some more spectacular artifacts or at least one that caused transforming.
I like the theme and all but I am real disspaointed that we get a new thematic keyword and there is only one card that uses it.

Really? Where are all the fight cards? 
Seeing all the cards in the set, I'm thinking that the Innistrad block should have been it's own seperate offshoot of magic. I think the cards may create interesting play against other cards in the set and eventually the block, but as far as MTG and MTG Standard in particular, I just think Innistrad is horrible.

I really didn't care for the SoM block. Core 2012 is the worst core set I've ever seen and now we get this wierd set that falls completely flat.

I think MTG set design is completely off the tracks and things seem to be getting worse, rather than better. I think the new Standard is going to be cringe worthy for a lot of players. There will always be winning deck strategies to be built and played, but I no longer feel that Magic offers anything in the standard environment that can't be found in any CCG. It's all just so generic and boring and even transforming cards just feel like a pointless gimmick, rather than an innovation.

Those at WotC that had been very resistant to this classic horror themed block should have stuck to their guns. This set (and block) would have made a better limited edition game seperate from MTG than a MTG expansion. They could even have done horror with a MTG flavor, but that's not what happened. Instead we got old fashioned Gothic Horror that doesn't even do a very good job at being that.

I think I'm done with the game for a while. I'll peek back in when the next block launches, but with the sets designed so far in advance, I think the process of recorrecting the game's course is going to take a while, assuming they even realize that the game design has taken a wrong turn.

This set doesn't feel at all like Magic.

 


Yeah, I'm feeling the same way.  Double face cards are so stupid, I can't even stand to look at them.  Liliana, the one card that I was super-excited to see revealed, turned out to be a complete dud.  I still haven't totally gotten over poison counters, and now this corny set called Innistrad comes along. These designers are just pushing me away.  These last couple years, I feel like MTG is drifting in a direction that I don't like.  I feel like I barely recognize the game that I fell in love with all those years ago. 

I said it in another post, and now I believe it even more after seeing these cards -- the design team needs an overhaul and these stupid gimmicks need to be put to rest.  I feel like the current design team is so concerned about flavor and gimmicks and "top down design" and corny mechanics that they forget about the single most important aspect of MTG -- gameplay.  As I looked at each card, one by one, I thought about playing that card, and my initial opinion about each card was that they were dull and boring and they just don't seem like they will be fun to play.  

The designers need to get back to the basics and design interesting cards THAT ARE FUN TO PLAY.  I'm just not seeing that with these Innistrad cards.  And the double face cards are pure blasphemy.  Whoever came up with that idea needs to be kicked in the crotch with a steel-toed boot. 

The designers need to get back to the basics and design interesting cards THAT ARE FUN TO PLAY.  I'm just not seeing that with these Innistrad cards.



I'm withholding judgement on "fun to play with" until I actually play with the cards.  I genuinely don't know yet.


However, all the buzz has been over the top-down design and the flavor it creates.  And I have to point out that flavor is a marketing tool, not a feature.  When people follow rumors about a set, discuss memorable points about an upcoming release, or even pick out their first pack from a shelf, flavor will absolutely drive that decision.  It even wows people when they rip the pack and fan through the cards.  However, one play starts the repeat purchase will be driven by playability and flavor will take a back seat.


So if playability has become secondary in the design process (again I don't know that it has, but designing equipment after household objects isn't a great sign), that will have been a grave mistake.  I want to like a set that makes the graveyard matter and creates incentives for self-milling.  But I don't know if the percent of the set that does this will make up for the large part that doesn't.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

However, all the buzz has been over the top-down design and the flavor it creates.  And I have to point out that flavor is a marketing tool, not a feature.  When people follow rumors about a set, discuss memorable points about an upcoming release, or even pick out their first pack from a shelf, flavor will absolutely drive that decision.  It even wows people when they rip the pack and fan through the cards.  However, one play starts the repeat purchase will be driven by playability and flavor will take a back seat.



For Melvin, yes. For Vorthos, playability is still the driver, but flavor has the map and leads.

Yeah, I'm feeling the same way.  Double face cards are so stupid, I can't even stand to look at them.  Liliana, the one card that I was super-excited to see revealed, turned out to be a complete dud.  I still haven't totally gotten over poison counters, and now this corny set called Innistrad comes along. These designers are just pushing me away.  These last couple years, I feel like MTG is drifting in a direction that I don't like.  I feel like I barely recognize the game that I fell in love with all those years ago.



Yeah, I didn't like reading MaRo's latest State of Design article, where he said Scars and Innistrad are the next step, the new direction the game is taking. I don't like it so far, but it might just be the direction that's making them the most money... 
OHMYGODMAGICISDIEYING!1ONEELEVEN

Well, Magic has been dying for a long time, so...
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
heh, as far as magic dying i thought that when fallen empires and homelands came out, and i got back in on mirrodin and was really happy, even though now most of that set is a tad overcosted compared to nowadays. and the lorwyn-shadowmoor block really made me love the game again. but shards of alara turned me off, i wasnt really into trifecta.
so for me it comes and goes im just glad its still around and going strong.

im happy with the SoM block and kinda sad i got into it on the tail end.
Yes this set is silly but old players are coming back and were all excited for this set with a hand in from garfield. Could they have made a offshoot game yes but im glad they did not.
 
For Melvin, yes. For Vorthos, playability is still the driver, but flavor has the map and leads.

Melvin and Vorthos aren't player psychographics, they're the method by which appreciation happens.  To use these terms I'm saying Timmy, Johnny, and Spike still need to be satified or else the Melvin and Vorthos aspects will go appreciate the structure and flavor of some other game.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

Melvin and Vorthos aren't player psychographics, they're the method by which appreciation happens.  To use these terms I'm saying Timmy, Johnny, and Spike still need to be satified or else the Melvin and Vorthos aspects will go appreciate the structure and flavor of some other game.



It works both ways. If a game isn't Melvin or Vorthos enough people will look elsewhere as well.
Melvin and Vorthos aren't player psychographics, they're the method by which appreciation happens.  To use these terms I'm saying Timmy, Johnny, and Spike still need to be satified or else the Melvin and Vorthos aspects will go appreciate the structure and flavor of some other game.



It works both ways. If a game isn't Melvin or Vorthos enough people will look elsewhere as well.



That's not strictly possible.  They Timmy Melvinishly or they Timmy Vorthosily, but either way they're Timmying.  If a set is insufficiently Vorthosed for the Vorthos Timmy then he won't Timmy, but his judgement will still be formed Vorsothily.


To ground this a little bit, many Melvin Spikes (myself included) miss Damage on the Stack because it created a lot of intricacy for them to master.  But it's the Spike part that's disappointed, Melvin is just the way by which we feel our Spikes were let down.


Therefore, what I'm saying is "eyes on the prize".  If improving flavor aids the Vorthosian appreciation of Timmys and Johnnys, then do it to get the Timmys and Johnnys.  But don't do it as it's own end.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

That's not strictly possible.  They Timmy Melvinishly or they Timmy Vorthosily, but either way they're Timmying.  If a set is insufficiently Vorthosed for the Vorthos Timmy then he won't Timmy, but his judgement will still be formed Vorsothily.



Meaning he'll look elsewhere because the set is insufficiently Vorthos, which is what I was saying right?


Therefore, what I'm saying is "eyes on the prize".  If improving flavor aids the Vorthosian appreciation of Timmys and Johnnys, then do it to get the Timmys and Johnnys.  But don't do it as it's own end.



What would be an example of something Vorthosian that isn't Timmy or Johnny?
Therefore, what I'm saying is "eyes on the prize".  If improving flavor aids the Vorthosian appreciation of Timmys and Johnnys, then do it to get the Timmys and Johnnys.  But don't do it as it's own end.


What would be an example of something Vorthosian that isn't Timmy or Johnny?


Wooden Stake.
Wooden Stake.



Haha yeah that's a weird piece of Spike Vorthos =p
But it's obligatory limited hosing, we would have it with or without Vorthosian input.