Ravenloft

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I heard that WotC was going to eventually bring back Ravenloft as a setting for D&D 4e but haven't heard anything for a long time.  This is the one setting that might actually get me to play D&D 4e again.

Is there any info/news about this please? 
It was cancelled.
Seriously????????? WHY???????

Just another reason why WotC is losing popularity and getting owned by Paizo.  I never buy WotC stuff anymore. 
Getting owned by Paizo? Ok, no evidence of that. However, I agree that it's annoying that they're cancelling stuff. I think most of the cancelled stuff has gone to DDI. Ravenloft, IIRC, was going to be a seperate game from D&D with its own rules based on D&D. Kinda like Gamma World. I also agree that I'm not buying anything in the near future. Not interested in the Essentials format.
WotC is getting owned by Paizo.  For the first time in the history of the hobby a different game holds the #1 best selling RPG product spot...and that game is Pathfinder, knocking WotC's D&D 4e off the top spot and Paizo has consistently been outselling WotC for months now.  Even local shops are stating that Pathfinder products are selling better than D&D 4e stuff.

In addition, Paizo edged out WotC in many different Origins awards categories this year and also are winning more Ennie awards than WotC.   
WotC is getting owned by Paizo.  For the first time in the history of the hobby a different game holds the #1 best selling RPG product spot...and that game is Pathfinder, knocking WotC's D&D 4e off the top spot and Paizo has consistently been outselling WotC for months now.  Even local shops are stating that Pathfinder products are selling better than D&D 4e stuff.

Do you have sales figures or statistical data to reference and support your claims?

In addition, Paizo edged out WotC in many different Origins awards categories this year and also are winning more Ennie awards than WotC.

They are bringing home awards, that's for sure.

And they deserve it; they've worked hard.

Danny



In addition, Paizo edged out WotC in many different Origins awards categories this year and also are winning more Ennie awards than WotC.   



By copying WotC's work, no less.

As I said, I'm not a fan of what WotC is doing now, either. However, they have to release products to sell them and win awards. Their release schedule is very slim right now, as it seems they're moving towards a more digital format. 
www.examiner.com/rpg-in-national/paizo-p...

www.geeknative.com/22529/pathfinder-outs...

www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/talien/6749-...

greyhawkery.blogspot.com/2011/08/congrat...


WotC is getting owned by Paizo.  For the first time in the history of the hobby a different game holds the #1 best selling RPG product spot...and that game is Pathfinder, knocking WotC's D&D 4e off the top spot and Paizo has consistently been outselling WotC for months now.  Even local shops are stating that Pathfinder products are selling better than D&D 4e stuff.

Do you have sales figures or statistical data to reference and support your claims?


www.examiner.com/rpg-in-national/paizo-p...

www.geeknative.com/22529/pathfinder-outs...

www.enworld.org/forum/blogs/talien/6749-...

greyhawkery.blogspot.com/2011/08/congrat...


WotC is getting owned by Paizo.  For the first time in the history of the hobby a different game holds the #1 best selling RPG product spot...and that game is Pathfinder, knocking WotC's D&D 4e off the top spot and Paizo has consistently been outselling WotC for months now.  Even local shops are stating that Pathfinder products are selling better than D&D 4e stuff.

Do you have sales figures or statistical data to reference and support your claims?





None of those report actual sales figures is the thing, as WotC doesn't make them public. None are reliable sources for actual figures. They take stats from certain game stores and such.

I'm also sure it doesnt' factor in the money that DDi pulls in, which is significant. A lot of people don't buy books anymore, because DDi supplies them with all the crunch they need.
Don't live in denial.  When everyone is reporting the same thing, there is fire to it.  This is well known now and has been reported/discussed at all the major RPG sites such as: rpg.net, rpg Life, EN World, etc.  The ICv2 figures come right from the stores, distributors, retailers, and manufacturers.

It is well known in the gamer community right now that Paizo is outdoing WotC.
Don't live in denial.  When everyone is reporting the same thing, there is fire to it.  This is well known now and has been reported/discussed at all the major RPG sites such as: rpg.net, rpg Life, EN World, etc.

It is well known in the gamer community right now that Paizo is outdoing WotC. 



It is a persistent line of thought.  There is no actual hard evidence to support it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Don't live in denial.  When everyone is reporting the same thing, there is fire to it.  This is well known now and has been reported/discussed at all the major RPG sites such as: rpg.net, rpg Life, EN World, etc.  The ICv2 figures come right from the stores, distributors, retailers, and manufacturers.

It is well known in the gamer community right now that Paizo is outdoing WotC.



They have nothing to report on, though. Once again, WotC doesn't release their sales figures. So, sources are going to be unreliable at best.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone was ahead of them, though. You can't keep the lead when you have nothing to sell. When WotC is in full production mode, they're untouchable.

I'm not even a huge fan of D&D anymore, but I know what constitutes evidence. I've moved on to other games now, but I still hang around on here because I like the community (for the most part.

None of the sources listed are reliable without actual sales figures to back them up.
Despite what you all consider to be "evidence," the truth remains regardless.
Despite what you all consider to be "evidence," the truth remains regardless.




i dunno, tbh, WOTC as far as i'm aware, is the only company with a service like DDI to drain on their sales, and it DND remains the most iconic tabletop, so i'd expect it to get the lion's share of new players.

and WOTC has slowed down production recently while searching for a somewhat different direction...

i don't think those numbers are very reliable, considering they have access to little more access to information beyond certain stores, it doesn't account for sales from places like Barnes and Noble, Borders, or other bookstores where i tend to purchase most of my game material

in fact, it doesn't include Amazon...


IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/8.jpg)

Keep in mind D&D 4e is very unpopular with a LOT of players.
Keep in mind D&D 4e is very unpopular with a LOT of players.



So is Pathfinder. So are a lot of things. 4e has made the NY Times Bestseller List a few times now, though. It's not that unpopular.

Most of the disliek is found from the fans of the previous stuff. Likewise, a lot of the fans of the newer stuff dislike the older stuff. Unless you plan on polling millions of people, though. You can't claim any hard statistics. Just like sales. The numbers they use are highly unreliable, and don't account for most of the major retailers.
Despite what you all consider to be "evidence," the truth remains regardless.



And the truth is, you do not know.  Nobody does, because WotC's sales figures are not public, and since you don't have the numbers to compare, you do not, and cannot, know if anybody's sales are higher than WotCs.

You can suspect.
You can speculate.
You can not know.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Despite what you all consider to be "evidence," the truth remains regardless.

Actually, the truth is more complex.

It is not Path (and 3,5 remainants) VS 4th..
It is Path VS 4th VS even OLDER clones.

You see, you may have forgotten it, but there was old timers, grognards, traditionalists that derided D20-3,X. And still does. More than you think.

Amusingly, Path fans are attacked by fans of things like OSRIC as well. 
Despite what you all consider to be "evidence," the truth remains regardless.





I'll grab my tin foil hat.
Seriously????????? WHY???????

Just another reason why WotC is losing popularity and getting owned by Paizo.  I never buy WotC stuff anymore. 



A weak trolling attempt, buddy
Paizo tops the rankings one Quarter out of the last what 12 and it is a sign that they are just rolling over 4th edition?

1 quarter for Pathfinder and 11 quarters for 4th edition does not a rolling over of 4th edition by Pathfinder make. 
Good lord, I remember the 16 bits videogames war of the early 90s, it was way tighter and closer at times - Sega got one year winning, 92 or 93,  but Nintendo fought back HARD.
In an attempt to get things back to a place at least reasonably close to the original point of this thread:

I, too, am disappointed that Ravenloft is not presently slated for release. Not because I especially loved the setting (I always found it to be one of the middle-tier settings; for me, it ranked solidly above Greyhawk, and well below Dark Sun), but instead because I was very happy with the idea of "a world a year."
On the subject matter of Ravenloft, some of the material has been taken into other books such as the Vampire in Heroes of the Shadowfell.
I know this is nitpicking but it wasn't canceled it was "put on hold" or "shelved" or whatever they are calling it. They said the concept was not ready. I am hopeful that they will dust it off and run at it again. I realize that may be futile but I still hold out hope...
I know this is nitpicking but it wasn't canceled it was "put on hold" or "shelved" or whatever they are calling it. They said the concept was not ready. I am hopeful that they will dust it off and run at it again. I realize that may be futile but I still hold out hope...



Given one of the recent polls, they may decide to do to Ravenloft what they are doing for Kara-Tur; devote a whole month of online material from Dragon and Dungeon for it.
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Given one of the recent polls, they may decide to do to Ravenloft what they are doing for Kara-Tur; devote a whole month of online material from Dragon and Dungeon for it.



This would rejoice me actually.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

For Ravenloft, I'd personally like to see a good campaign in a box approach.  By this, I do not mean a 4E redo of the Ravenloft Boxed Set of yesteryear.  I don't want yet another redo of all of the domains and darklords.  I think that can get handled with an article every month or so on DDI.  What I do want, is a great gothic adventure designed to take characters up several levels that centers around one or two domains at most with some great poster maps, monster vault type components with new horror critters and tokens for them and exciting NPCs.  I'm Strahd's number one fan but I also do not want this to be a 4E redo of I6 Ravenloft/House of Strahd/Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.  Something new with a fair amount of vampires, werewolves, mummies, mad scientists and so on.

L
I only played RL 1or 2. But I did play a Ravenloft computer games. I allways wanted to play agian and I would like to see it updated to 4e!!!
Incorperating smaller elements is...NOT the same as a whole. With NWCS bumped ahead over RL and other past settings...it's like they said  FR's is our core setting for 4e. With a smattering of Eb, and DS, and the canabalized pieces of other setting mixed in! Like some Mom saying you will eat your veggies and like it!!!
I know w.o.t.c. has x dollars, resources, and time. What they do with it who know??? There whole essentuals line besides making character simpler is trying to keep that retro (aka Traditional) flavor alive. Now, I'm playing my retro-knight, and my retro-mage, and when there going to rerelease my retro setting's like DL and RL. Sure, I could be content running my own homebrew campaigne. But 4e is more of a group game, then indivual. I do run my own adventures and all 5 ch...but it WORK! AndI have less time. It's nothing for them to release a CS, you don't even have to release new classes. Just the CS well take it from there!!! The crappy thing is in the past when product couldn't meet deman they hired 3rdpp's. But from what I read the new GSL is more restictive than the OGL . Totally killing 3rd p support!!! In the Future Release DL 4e thread I suggested maybe pitching an Idea to w.ot.c. the fans are there they just need to unit and get the ball rolling!
As I posted in another thread any old setting is at least 2 years away as WOTC has said we are getting a totally new setting next year. That means 2013 is possiable but I think 5th edition will be hitting the shelves then. I got a feeling you may get a dragon/dungeon articles but not much more.
Don't live in denial.  When everyone is reporting the same thing, there is fire to it.  This is well known now and has been reported/discussed at all the major RPG sites such as: rpg.net, rpg Life, EN World, etc.  The ICv2 figures come right from the stores, distributors, retailers, and manufacturers.

It is well known in the gamer community right now that Paizo is outdoing WotC.



The ICv2 figures are bunk.  They say, flat out, on their site that "The charts are based on interviews with retailers, distributors, and manufacturers."  These interviews cannot be used to prove what company has higher sales.  It ammounts to polling at best, and junk-accounting at worst.  If you don't have financial statements, then all you're doing is spouting hearsay.  And if you think hearsay constitutes proof, then you are clearly the one living in denial.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

ravenloft ftw
As I said then, I'll repeat, wotc wont get my money for a 5 edition.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
As I said then, I'll repeat, wotc wont get my money for a 5 edition.

Satisfied with the current edition and it's many things, or dissatisfied and wanting no more with WOTC?
Satisfied with pre essenials 4th and very disdatisfied with WOTC.
Satisfied with pre essenials 4th and very disdatisfied with WOTC.



Seconded
*sigh*

ICv2 said Paizo outsold WotC (in RPGs). The CEO of Paizo said they out-sold WotC. The Paizo panels at GenCon echoed this statement. And WotC hasn't issued a rebuttal and when asked about it when interviewed by the Tome podcast, Mike Mearls was evasive and repeated that WotC is focusing on the future and not the now. 
And Paizo also beat WotC in every ENnie category they were in competition. They trounced them. So even if you ignore repeated sale numbers, Paizo is more popular at the moment. 

What this comes down to is that 4e did have a bad quarter and Pathfinder beat them.  But when you compare the products released it's no surprise. I go into greater detail in my blog,here. But sumerizing the key point, if every WotC 4e product sold twice as many copies as every Pathfinder product (for that three month span), Paizo would have won. Just because they had more books out.  

At this point, arguing otherwise is really, really, really silly and just denial. Childish really. 
"Bang! Gotcha!"
"Nuh uh! You missed. And.. and I have my bullet proof vest on. Bang! Now you're dead!"

 

Okay, onto the real question:
I heard that WotC was going to eventually bring back Ravenloft as a setting for D&D 4e but haven't heard anything for a long time.  This is the one setting that might actually get me to play D&D 4e again.

Is there any info/news about this please? 


The product was announced a year plus ago and was supposed to come out in a couple months, but was cancelled. From the descriptions we got at the 2010 GenCon Ravenloft was to be a stand-alone product plus campaign setting that would allow players to be werewolves, vampires, and the like. 
After I heard the announcement I was worried it would be GammaWorld: Horror Edition.  GW was super-fun but had almost 0 world information as the included books were solely game rules. A comperable product - to make it stand-alone - would have been a campaign setting all of 10 pages long. And the point of Ravenloft was to fight against the darkness and occasionally be slightly corrupted, not run around as a vampire and werewolf and lich like some sort of fantasy X-Men or bad World of Darkness campaign. 

It was probably a good thing it was cancelled so now we can possibly get a Ravenloft book that might actually be a Ravenloft book. 

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