MB - Dredge, Smallpox, and other goodies

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It's a jumping off point:


And the sideboard is a wreck; don't judge that yet.

Thoughts? Opinions? Flames? I'm not going to defend this too brusquely but I think it has some good plays.

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I was thinking about running something smallpox, but I had no clue what. I wouldn't mind giving this a try though. But I have a lot of Zoo varients in my area, how well can it handle Zoo?
Well maindeck you've got a great deal of creature removal, something Zoo doesn't like. Inevitability will begin to take over for you as the game develops because you can just keep dredging out Stinkweed Imps to block and play from your graveyard.

Shadow of Doubting a fetch is a stifle... and if you respond to a fetch with a ghost quarter then respond to ghost quarter with the shadow of doubt you really just beat them to pieces.

Sideboarding pulls the fulminator mages for fleshbags, the 2 raven's crimes for smothers, the thoughtseizes for inquisitions.

Smallpox and Shadow of Doubt are your dangerous blow-out plays against almost every deck, use them well.

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Wouldn't crucible of worlds be good here? It's lets you replay your ghost quarters over and over.
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It's a non interactive card on its own and I have no way to recur it if I dredge it. I find myself dredging for a response when I can to expand my options by loading the graveyard. Obviously you can play without loading your graveyard if you expect hate... but in general you're dredging for 5 or 4 or 3 as often as you can use it to answer a question.

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Ah...I see where your going now. All right, I think i'll run this saturday at a little local modern tourny, I can post the results if you like, Niche.
Noxio, I would be fascinated to see results. I'll use it to tune the deck for you.

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2011 States Top 4
Multiple 2013 IQ Top 4/8 Finishes
Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

A death cloud shell seems much more degenerate, and actually plays a little better with sideboard cards, since you aren't dredging away silver bullets. Worm harvest is just too slow.

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I feel like land recursion is a must here, but life from the loam is definitely more effective than crucible in a dredge deck. My issue, really, is that I feel like there's not enough unfair things to do in a dredge deck in modern that it's worth opening yourself up to leyline of the void and other really obvious sideboard hate. 
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The Tombstalkers are good, but I can't help but feel that Demigod of Revenge would be better.

What about Bob?


 


Your average CMC isn't to high, although hitting a Tombstalker might hurt.

My decks: Jund Rock
Pox in legacy would much rather have phyrexian arena than bob because of the amount of life you lose over the course of the game due to your own pox shennanigans. Still and yet, you're not playing pox, so bob (who is better 90% of the time) might be better here....I agree that both warrant testing. I always feel sorry for myself when I play a deck with no draw engine...
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Demigod of Revenge - You'll have a hard time getting to BBBBB in this deck. I find myself peaking at 3 or 4 and a colorless source.

Bob - Great Card. But I am running tombstalkers and shriekmaws. Those are some big hits to take on chance.

Phyrexian Arena - Definitely the preference. I'm considering something on this.

Life From the Loam and Crucible - I'm at 3 Dakmor Salvages now. These guys are enough to ensure landfall and effective Worm Harvests as games progress.

Death Cloud - The deck has pretty crappy matchups against... everything? I played that first and felt like I wasn't doing enough and death cloud wasn't hitting early enough to be effective. Smallpox does.

Liliana of the Veil - Indeed, she probably has a good interaction here.

Worm Harvest - It's just a degenerate late game plan. Considering cutting 1 to add a Dread Return. Thoughts?

Ultimately let me emphasize that this deck plays out of its graveyard very well... but it doesn't require it. If someone boards in Leyline then I just don't dredge as much. Stinkweed works as a very effective aggro answer... dakmor is still a land drop... and thug... well he's pretty awful staring down a leyline. All of this said I'm considering that the sideboard hold a few Phyrexian Arenas. G2 we side out the thugs... maybe a stinkweed... bring in triple arena and the more appropriate disruption/removal. There are plenty of games where a strong MBC build will handle Zoo just fine.... and a more disruptive MBC can gobble up the combo decks. But in a meta split so evenly you need to have a workable game plan against both G1.

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

All fair points, and dread return would definitely be worth a try...except it's been ban-hammered
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Snap. I thought they just banned the grave troll to hate dredge. Banning it AND Dread Return really trashed that deck.

That being what it is, who the heck boards Leyline for a completely crippled combo deck?

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2011 States Top 4
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Designer of Top 8 States finishing MBC decks in 2011, 2010, and 2009 
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

I think a lot of players sideboard graveyard hate in modern because it's a generic answer to a variety of potential threats. When constructing a sideboard (particularly for a format that hasn't been fully explored yet) , people try to think about what angle they might be hit from that they might not be able to handle game 1, and 'graveyard' comes to mind. It'll probably go down in favor unless graveyard combo decks gain in popularity...right now most people fear 12 post, zoo, and poison. 
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I understand the premise of sideboard construction. But generally people won't waste slots to defend against things they don't need to anticipate unless they have free slots.

I guess my question really was, 'Are there any decks that would be crippled by graveyard hate right now?'

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

living end comes to mind...other than that, pretty much nothing. 
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Usually..i'll add some gv hate, especially to an unkown meta. But I know the one i'll be playing agaisnt are variants of Zoo, Cloudpost and i'm sure some u/w list may spring up. And I really like Tombstalker here, comes down after you cripple your oppenent for dirt cheap.
Also, my friend will be playing his mono b homebrew, it's more discard base, but i'm curious to see how we both do.
I understand the premise of sideboard construction. But generally people won't waste slots to defend against things they don't need to anticipate unless they have free slots.

I guess my question really was, 'Are there any decks that would be crippled by graveyard hate right now?'



I'm pretty sure that Pyromancer Ascension and graveyard hate aren't the best of friends.
Pyro kills you in the same turn it usually gets counters.
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I'll post up my standing sometime sunday night. But I went 3-2.
3-2 sounds like a good starting point. We should be able to tune you up into a X-1 or X-0 from there.

Excited to see whatever details you can provide. 

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Sorry about not posting them up, I will asap monday, been under the weather since the tourny.

All right..the moment has come!


1. First game,was white weemie. I went 1-2 against it. First game went smoothly, primarily thanks to Stinkweed imp, Shriekmaw, Golgari thug and Smallpox, they all either took out his onslaught of creatures, and kept Elspeth and Ajani off the board. Post board, he sided in 3 white Knights that wrecked me. I believe it was there removal that made it hard, Path of Exile and Condem screwed up my card advantage from dredging.


2. Next two games were against Naya Zoo. I went 2-1 both games.  I have to say..the deck worked rather well here, only issues were the straight burn to the face and Path to Exile. Other than that, everything in the deck was perfect.

3. Next game I went 1-2, and was agaisnt 12 Post, first game, I managed to keep their Cloudpost from ramping up and Bloodghast and Tombstalker stole the show. Next two games were long and drawn out, I kept him down to two Cloudposts, but he had graveyard hat in the form of Relic of Progenitus. And he sat behind several counters and bounced. Once he laid down his Vesuva's, he casted that hellish creature..
 
4. Last game, was against some midrange artifact deck. I swept this match. I have no clue how the worked though, but seemingly Fulminator Mage, Raven's Crime and Smallpox ruined him. I guess his mana  base was shakey and any direct attack on it just wrecks it. Both games, I finished him off with Bloodghast and Tombstalker.

Niche, I must say, I really like this deck, though with a meta with so much aggro, I have to wonder is there way to tip the scales? And the only card i'm iffy on, it's Worm Harvest, it only worked against slower decks. The aggro matches really didn't give me time to play it. But other wise, i'm impressed!

Sorry for typos, still sick ><.

Thoughts:

1. I thought you went 3-2. What was the 5th match?

2. Worm Harvest can go. It was an experimental card. If your meta is mostly aggro pitch it to the sideboard if you don't remove it completely.

3. White Knight? Rly? That is bizarre. Make sure you've got Fleshbag Marauders in your sideboard. You might move a pair to the maindeck to run over Worm Harvest. Good synergy with dredge/bloodghast. Also, Gatekeeper of Malakir. I've got tons of creative answers for this if the first two don't work out for you.

4. Relic of Progenitus got you down? Consider using Phyrexian Revoker in the sideboard for our deck. It is pretty savage. Also, Pithing Needle. You'll force your opponent to pop it if they're paying attention or missing a 2nd one in hand.

I look forward to your response.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Thoughts:

1. I thought you went 3-2. What was the 5th match?

2. Worm Harvest can go. It was an experimental card. If your meta is mostly aggro pitch it to the sideboard if you don't remove it completely.

3. White Knight? Rly? That is bizarre. Make sure you've got Fleshbag Marauders in your sideboard. You might move a pair to the maindeck to run over Worm Harvest. Good synergy with dredge/bloodghast. Also, Gatekeeper of Malakir. I've got tons of creative answers for this if the first two don't work out for you.

4. Relic of Progenitus got you down? Consider using Phyrexian Revoker in the sideboard for our deck. It is pretty savage. Also, Pithing Needle. You'll force your opponent to pop it if they're paying attention or missing a 2nd one in hand.

I look forward to your response.



Sorry, a typo on my part. At "2" I had back to back Zoo matches. And yeah, i'll try out the Marauders and Pithing Needles.
Fantastic. Let me know how the tweaks work.

Sideboard tech for 12 post as you see fit: Executioner's Capsule for Emrakul and/or Unmake for Wurmcoil Engine.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hey Niche, i've been struck by the dreaded flu, but I plan to play agaisnt a few decks this week.
Hey Niche, i've been struck by the dreaded flu, but I plan to play agaisnt a few decks this week.



No problem.

With the recent bannings you could probably turn this thing into a far more traditional MBC build and move the disruption into the sideboard.

Let me know your new meta looks like and I'll help.

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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Hm, maybe I'll try a list using culling scales. That card ought to hurt. A lot.

Might also make an artifact toolbox with crucible of worlds, buried ruin and evil, evil artifacts.
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Hm, maybe I'll try a list using culling scales. That card ought to hurt. A lot.

Might also make an artifact toolbox with crucible of worlds, buried ruin and evil, evil artifacts.



At that point, there's really no reason not to run seismic assault/loam/stax effects.

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Hm, maybe I'll try a list using culling scales. That card ought to hurt. A lot.

Might also make an artifact toolbox with crucible of worlds, buried ruin and evil, evil artifacts.



At that point, there's really no reason not to run seismic assault/loam/stax effects.



1) Seismic assault is waaay to colour intensive. Plus it requires loam to work, so the deck would be three-coloured. No thanks.

2) If I chose to splash green, then yes, loam is in. But I'm still in the stage of hunting for ideas. It is too soon to decide on splashes yet.

3) Chalice doesn't work so well with culling scales. Stuff like executioner's capsule has more synergy with what I have in mind.
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Hey, i'll get some data up soon, had a much better time. I faced fostly aggro decks now.
Hm, maybe I'll try a list using culling scales. That card ought to hurt. A lot.

Might also make an artifact toolbox with crucible of worlds, buried ruin and evil, evil artifacts.



At that point, there's really no reason not to run seismic assault/loam/stax effects.



1) Seismic assault is waaay to colour intensive. Plus it requires loam to work, so the deck would be three-coloured. No thanks.

2) If I chose to splash green, then yes, loam is in. But I'm still in the stage of hunting for ideas. It is too soon to decide on splashes yet.

3) Chalice doesn't work so well with culling scales. Stuff like executioner's capsule has more synergy with what I have in mind.



I wasn't being clear in my post. What I meant is that you may as well run a dedicated sesmic assault/loam deck at that point, since it does what you're trying to do in black, except much more efficiently.

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Sorry about the last update, but my meta switch to aggro decks mainly now. Mostly Zoo varients, Bant Aggro and white weenie. I have to admit, my last games (2 against Zoo, 2-1 each, swept the Bant deck and 2-1 against White Weenie).

Sorry the post is brief..I typed twice tonight and my connection went out both times -_-. 
Its no problem. I mean the details are going to be something like:

1. Aggro deck played dudes.
2. I killed those dudes.
3. I played a threat.
4. Aggro deck answered it.
5. Aggro played more dudes.
6. I killed those dudes.
7. I played another threat.
8. Aggro had no answer.
9. I win.

Aside from pivotal things like mana screws and godhands thats how MBC eats aggro.

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Just out of curiousity, why Fleshbag Marauderer over Gatekeeper? Is it so we can sac things like the thug to return a Shriekmaw, or is it just dependent on personal preference?

Just out of curiousity, why Fleshbag Marauderer over Gatekeeper? Is it so we can sac things like the thug to return a Shriekmaw, or is it just dependent on personal preference?




Yes. Ultimately the 3 powerr is more important than the 1 toughness in the format. Also the recursion gimmicks...

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2011 States Top 4
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Favorite Quotes

"Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." - Laurence J. Peter 
"It is the province of knowledge to speak, and it is the privilege of wisdom to listen.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Has anyone been able to try out the new Liliana of the Veil in this deck? I'd imagine it be pretty good, as you'd probably get a lot more benifit out of the +1 discard ability than your opponent would, and an Edict machine is nothing to snub your nose at. Being able to stay around after a smallpox is another thing that I like, and at a CMC of 3, she's definetly playable. I understand that she is rather hard to come by right now however, so was wondering if Noxio had any copies.