Overcoming blindness?

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Basics: Epic Tiefling Paladin, already MCed Avenger for non optimization reasons (unchangeable), can easily be achieved with gear, but not currently an option. 


Avenues I've been thinking of: 

Secrets of Belial for Eyes of the Warlock, True Seeing, Unerring Something (SM lvl 10, AP)
Order Adept for True Seeing
Someway to get an arcane familiar w/o multiclassing for that familiar vision feat.

Any ideas on how to make my now permanently blind character work?
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Cast the remove affliction ritual. That's what it's there for.



Knew I forgot something in the OP. This would be great, yes, but won't work in this particular case. Thank you, though. 
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Since your DM houseruled in permanent blindness, you'll need to ask him what his houserules are for overcoming it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I don't see anything about remove affliction regrowing body parts like limbs. There's no houserule besides the logic of "no eyes = no vision." I understand waving the Plot Device wand would be easiest but that's not an option. The DM is not being unreasonable, this isn't some sort of quarrel. I'm asking for aid within the system. 
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
I don't see anything about remove affliction regrowing body parts like limbs. There's no houserule besides the logic of "no eyes = no vision." I understand waving the Plot Device wand would be easiest but that's not an option. The DM is not being unreasonable, this isn't some sort of quarrel. I'm asking for aid within the system. 



There are no rules for permanent blindness or removing limbs, therefore this is a houserule.  There is no way for your eyes to have been removed/injured/whatever.  There is no way, within the rules, for the injury that your character suffers from to have happened.  Your DM has gone outside the system, therefore we cannot give you aid from within the system.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
There is nothing in the rules about dying from hunger, but that doesn't mean a ritual that creates a feast won't save you. Just because you don't know a way to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
How long has your character had blindness?
It will have been a couple months when we play tomorrow. There was a sixth month break in game when we hit our epic destinies. This won't be like the status effect blindness where I can't flank or grant CA, it will be more similar to the blind trait that some monsters have, because of the eventual adaptation a person would gain.
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
In that case you could probably see if you can let your DM give you Blindsense X(exact range up to his descretion) to account for your character taking the time to get used to his blindness, while making Perception checks to attempt to detect something outsaide of your range.

Just one suggestion.
Welp, any monster with the blind trait also has some sort of extra sensory ability to make up for the lack of vision, like blindsight or tremorsense. Alas, tieflings do not get that naturally. My DM is pretty flexible about my character getting more used to the blindness as time goes on, but blindsight most likely isn't the sort of thing that would come about naturally. Hence the desire for some other solution. Obviously there is a level 21 item that solves this rather handily, but that's also not naturally occuring.
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Jump into a pool of lava, and wait until your body is complety destroyed. When one of your allies rezzes you, you should come back whole.
Haha, I was waiting for that one. This would be ineffective though, as permanent conditions such as an amputation won't be changed. That is probably more Remove Affliction's domain.
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
Jump into a pool of lava, and wait until your body is complety destroyed. When one of your allies rezzes you, you should come back whole.



And we have a winner. That's some hardcore @#$% right there!
Well, maybe a short tremorsense range could work then if he doens't wanna go for straight blindesense.
I'd like tremorsense, but my PP is Favored Soul, unfortunately. An 'evilsense' would be rather nifty, but completely homebrew as far as I know. Is there actually no way to remain without eyes and still be effective at melee and range regardless of gear? I feel as though I'm missing something.
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
I'm trying to parse what exactly you want as a result from this thread, and I'm not coming up with much.  So far I've got the fact that your DM has said you are blind as a result your 6 month break and Epic Destiny being realized.

Then when suggestions are made about how to overcome the said blindness, you shoot them down.

Maybe this isn't a CharOp problem, it's a CharDev one, and you'd get a much better response there?

If you want a non-rules based solution, work it out with your DM.  If you want a "this something from a D&D Book that fixes my Blind Condition", then take one of the previously mentioned suggestions, or the ones that you've already thought up (and dismissed).  Everything else is character development, no?

Retrain your ardent vow/lay on hands into virtue's touch or find a NPC/initiate a PC to paladinhood with the Soldier of Virtue feat. Touch/make them touch yourself.
Remove afliction will also work as previously noted, as well as a resurection.

The logic behind no eyes = no vision also works for removes blindness = restores vision = restores eyes.   

Make your way to a city and take up begging until the blindness goes away

There is nothing in the rules about dying from hunger, but that doesn't mean a ritual that creates a feast won't save you. Just because you don't know a way to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Yes, there is (lose surges, if you have no surges remaining take level in damage, repeat till dead because of HP loss).

Permanent blindedd is not possible by RAW. As is often the case when dealing with houserules, you ask the guy who made up the houserule because the actual rules are being ignored anyway and therefore will not help.
simple, heroic teir feat from heroes of the forgotten kingdoms

feat: blindfighting warrior

flavor: "you have learned to fight without relying on your sight. your sharp hearing and ability to guess at a foe's location are the product of training and experience rather than of supernatural ability to see in the dark, though most people cannot tell the diffrence"

Benefit: your melee attacks take no penalty for partial concealment or total concealment

now your lack of sight is a strength, immune to gaze and stuff and you dont have any penalty to attacking. you already said your not granting CA or cant flank for it, and blindness only makes your enemies gain total concealment from you, (rules compendium PG 229/ PHB1 pg227) and it fits 100% flavor wise IMO 

also blindfighting sentinal will get rid of -10 perception and invisable enemies dont effect you any diffrently (if they dont already) and +2 perception for the heck of it
please excuse double post but....

combat advantage requires you to be able to see your target, most of us pretty much assume your going to get some sort of effect/flank/condition that will get you CA on an enemy this is a severe gimp to the potential of your character....
there are very very few ways of gaining blindsight, truesight or tremorsence as a perment thing. you can take a epic desteny for truesight 5 at 21, another gives you blindsight and tremorsence 10 at 24. you can take sight of the framilure or you can take high paragon boots for tremorsence 1.

those are the only ways I know off, and like the others have said you need to talk to your DM, as this is outside the bounds of the rules
Insulting someones grammar on a forum is like losing to someone in a drag race and saying they were cheating by having racing stripes. Not only do the two things not relate to each other (the logic behind the person's position, and their grammar) but you sound like an idiot for saying it (and you should, because its really stupid )
The logic behind no eyes = no vision also works for removes blindness = restores vision = restores eyes.   


This.  Though if your DM is already disallowing Remove Affliction, he's heavily into houserule area, and I second the notion of just asking him his houserule for curing it.

There's a problem with blindfighting warrior... You don't take penalties for total concealment, but they still HAVE total concealment. This means, essentially, line of effect but no line of sight. This turns off a large section of party buff effects, and has other unfortunate side effects like rogues always being able to sneak attack you.
Hmmm... How does Robe of Eyes play with this?
Technically, it would work.

In "heavy house rule terroritory", like everything, it's up to what his DM rules. 
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Eye of Discernment
Level 21 Uncommon

Little escapes your notice when this astral diamond-studded velvet patch covers one eye.


Price: 225,000 gp
Item Slot: Head
Property: Gain a +4 item bonus to Insight and Perception checks. The patch does not impair the sight of the covered eye. If you are blinded, the patch allows you to see through the covered eye as normal.

Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
Looks like we have a winner
He said no items, so back to the drawing board.
While I do appreciate all the responses, I'm am aiming for an answer within the system. It is entirely possible there is not one with the restrictions I gave, and if you feel that is the case, there's no need to post "get a houserule" for the twelfth time. I assure you, I made my perception check the first time, I am simply not satisfied with that answer.

I referenced Eye of Discernment a few pages ago, and when I get the opportunity to have it created, it will be my Plan A. Not an option for today's session, however. 
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
There is no solution within the system, this has already been mentioned quite a few times. Best get used to being blind.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
I guess then since what you have is something not defined within the system, trying to find a solution for it in it is not going to yield promising results.
Get:

Grandmaster Training Nightmare's Unseeing Stance
Eye of Prophecy
Grimlock Helm or Eyes of the Dragon
Unguent of Blindsight (a few vials for days that have more than 3 encounters)

Also for adventuring in a town (or if you have a local base of operations) find an Artificer henchman/hireling to recharge your item dailies.
The only things I see are the Mask of the Eye Leech and then the Nightmare Grandmaster Training stuff.

The Mask has a daily power that Blinds a target on a Hit. So long as the target is Blinded you do not suffer the negative effects of Blindness. You can Sustain the attack as a Minor Action. The only issue is that this is a Daily power and the attack does not scale well (though it hits against Will).

Nightmare's Equal Footing gives you Tremorsense 1 when you are Bloodied. And Nightmare's Unseeing Stance is a Daily stance that gives you Blindsight 5 (or Blindsight 10 if you can somehow Augment it).

@Everyone else: If the DM has ruled that *some* RAW methods will not work, it doesn't mean *all* will not work. The OP is looking for other methods. It's fine to give up after Remove Affliction, but then just excuse yourself from the thread than trying to hammer home an irrelevant suggestion.
The items you listed are all good choices, but if I'm going that route wouldn't the eye of discernment be a better route? 

The grandmaster training could be really helpful though. What's the source on that?

There is a pretty solid story explanation for my eyes not being able to regenerate for those still interested in helping despite my apparent stuborness.
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Our probable BBEG, has Tharizdun or a portion of it grafted to his arm forming a pretty wicked claw weapon. At the climax of our paragon tier, we had to hold him off for ten rounds (thankfully he focused on my fairly optimized paladin for personal reasons) while our wizard was finishing up a ritual to teleport a McGuffin out. Our sorcerer|warlord and myself didn't end up on the scenic side of the portal alas. Hence the months of capture and eye loss. Appropriate as my character is very much the paragon of Neutral Good, and has always had that gift of seeing situations clearly and working through the grey areas.  


Is there any rule about taking a theme after level 1? I'm not very familiar with them 
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
There is a pretty solid story explanation for my eyes not being able to regenerate for those still interested in helping despite my apparent stuborness.

What is it? Because I don't see it in your spoiler block.

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That really isn't a solid story reason. Sure, yeah, your eyes got ripped out. You remove blindness as a condition = you are no longer blind, if your blindness was caused by a lack of eyes then you have eyes again. Your DM can fluff it however he wants, but screwing over a player (and that is what he is doing, let us be clear) because you can't wrap your head around the idea that in a world of magic eyes can't just grow back is... sigh.
Indeed - the whole thing is flavour, so play with the flavour.  Your paladin's god has granted you a divine sense of the world.  He's trained himself to act normally without eyes.  SOme MacGuffin has given him daredevil-style radar sense.  He's got a magic eyeball.  He regrew them by magic.

This is the beauty of a flexible rules system like 4e - it's so easy to work out compelling story to fit around compelling story, and NOT randomly screw over a character mechanically for no good reason.

If anything, your Paladin should be rewarded for doing his job to such good effect.

But it's been said before, and I'll say it again: there is no rule for removing conditions like lost limbs or removed eyes, because there's no rule for applying them in the first place.  Asking for RAW to counter a house rule just doesn't work, because the house rule is not RAW in the first place, and ANYTHING we suggest can just be countered by 'no, my house rule is immune to that' just like Remove Affliction.

House ruled problem.  House ruled solution.  Flavour problem.  Flavour solution.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
The logic behind the eyes being gone for good, is similar to how some monsters will essentially unmake a character, eat his/her/its soul, etc. Tharizdun's essence is pure entropy and acts like those mechanics. There are rules precedents for these permanent deaths and despite Tharizdun not having stats, doesn't seem to be much of a leap. 

I am a little surprised by this response. The majority of posters seem more indignant than I am about the whole affair.
My forum good deeds. Fortunately, left unpunished:
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"Incidentally, everytime you post in of these (mine or anyone else's) you have really great advice." -Tigerguy786 "Thanks Stop-Whining, your suggestions have been gold." -RedRollinS "You are probably the best person who has explained a certain concept to me so far, thank you VERY much for the information, it helps me out a ton. I can't wait to play this deck and use some cards for a deck of my own. Cheers!" -SpaceLincoln "In short, you good sir, are made of win advice. And I am actually going to be taking pretty much all of it." -jeremyc13
The logic behind the eyes being gone for good, is similar to how some monsters will essentially unmake a character, eat his/her/its soul, etc. Tharizdun's essence is pure entropy and acts like those mechanics. There are rules precedents for these permanent deaths and despite Tharizdun not having stats, doesn't seem to be much of a leap. 

I am a little surprised by this response. The majority of posters seem more indignant than I am about the whole affair.



Probably because you're asking a CharDev question in CharOp. This is a rules area - your question is outside those rules. I'd hit the CharDev section for some homebrew solutions. As everyone keeps saying, this is a homebrew situation - it will require a homebrew solution.

I am a little surprised by this response. The majority of posters seem more indignant than I am about the whole affair.


Don't be surprised. Many on the Character Optimization boards don't actually understand what character optimization means or can entail, and being indignant is what a lot of them are actually experts in.
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