Dagnir the Dead Plague Rat - Pariah build with a Tiny twist

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A variation on the Pariah build but focused on the possibilities of the Dead Rat Deserter Theme power, Body of the Rat.

When in rat form, you cannot attack. However, you can still Curse and Divine Challenge, since neither are attacks, nor do they have any implement or weapon keywords. Combining this with a constant, pumped up regeneration and the Plagued Regeneration feat that causes damage to adjacent enemies whenever you regen, plus Radiant One for more autodamage, every turn you're causing damage to enemies just by being nearby, and with invisibility from Evermeet Warlock they'll be triggering Divine Challenge frequently as well. This is under the interpretation that equipment includes items you can't attack with anyway, but can still gain the benefits of properties from.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Dagnir, level 30
Revenant, Paladin/Warlock, Evermeet Warlock, Radiant One
Hybrid Talent Option: Shadow Walk
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Staff)
Choose your Race in Life: Longtooth Shifter
Spellscarred
Cursed (Stealth class skill)
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 28, DEX 14, INT 22, WIS 12, CHA 13
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 18, DEX 10, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 11
 
AC: 41 Fort: 48 Ref: 47 Will: 36
AC: 54 Fort: 61 Ref: 60 Will: 49 [effective defenses with TD & invisible]
HP: 186 Surges: 17 Surge Value: 46
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +23, Stealth +24, Thievery +22
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Arcana +21, Athletics +15, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +16, Endurance +26, Heal +16, History +21, Insight +16, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +21, Streetwise +16
 
POWERS
Paladin Feature: Divine Challenge
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Thievery Utility 2: Fast Hands
Warlock Utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep
 
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Past Soul
Level 4: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 6: Shifting Defense
Level 8: Death's Blessing
Level 10: Superior Fortitude
Level 11: Superior Reflexes
Level 12: Revenant's Challenge
Level 14: Arcane Familiar
Level 16: Plagued Regeneration
Level 21: Student of the Plague
Level 24: Rapid Regeneration
Level 26: Ghostly Vitality
Level 26: Epic Will
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 28: Epic Fortitude
Level 30: Unarmored Agility
 
ITEMS
Rod of Starlight +6 x1
Defensive Dagger +6 x1
Incisive Dagger Dagger +6 x2
Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness (epic tier) x1
Planestrider Boots (paragon tier) x1
Mantle of the Seventh Wind Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +6 x1
Mirrored Mask (epic tier) x1
Bag of Holding (heroic tier)
Potion of Healing (heroic tier)
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
Mithrendain Steel Dagger +2
Life Charm +6 x1
Staff of the Traveler +1
====== End ======

REGENERATION:
6 Longtooth Shifter
+3 Plagued Regeneration
+9 Rapid Regeneration
18 damage
+5 Radiant One
+9 Pelor's Sun Blessing
+6 Radiant Vulnerability from Curse with Rod of Starlight
(+5 if hit with DC)
38 automatic necrotic/radiant/fire damage to adjacent (43 after hit with DC)

DIVINE CHALLENGE:
4 Divine Challenge
+1 Charisma
+5 Radiant One
+9 Pelor's Sun Blessing
+6 Radiant Vulnerability from Curse with Rod of Starlight
25 automatic radiant/fire to violators of Divine Challenge

SAMPLE TURN:

1 BEGINNING OF TURN: Gain 20HP, deal 18 damage to enemy, adding 20/25 as above for 38/43 damage
2 STANDARD: Total Defense (+8 defenses), shift>teleport from adjacent to adjacent to same enemy to become invisible (+5 defenses)
3 MINOR: Warlock Curse (sustain vulnerability 6 radiant)
4 MINOR: Divine Challenge
5 ENEMY TURN: Enemy targets him, misses. Enemy targets ally, takes 25 automatic damage, gains vulnerability 5 necrotic.
6 GOTO 1

RESULT:

You're a rat, hovering and flickering and disappearing around the battlefield. Everything around you gets sick and eventually dies, quicker if they try to attack your allies. You never have to return to human form, although if you get knocked below zero you might have to to chug a potion if your allies don't heal you, since you can't use item powers in rat form.

Inspired by Mellored for his question on how to attack while Tiny.
The World Tree Guardian ED's capstone would work well for this, or lmk if it doesnt.

 World Tree's Growth (30th level): You have regeneration equal to the number of healing surges you have remaining.

edit: if you could get it somehow o.o
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


Regeneration doesn't stack, unless it specifically says "increases by", it won't help. What's lmk?
Aww... beaten to the tiny build Tongue out

You should definatly try and fit weakening challenge in there.

Guess i need to do a dead rat with iron defense (iron rat?)

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Oh mellored, you think of all the better ideas. Iron defense with damage reduce druid, paladin with revenant and weakening challenge... Already a better build. Need to rebuild him.
And would still work with plagued regeneration, there's an epic feat for druids if you don't want to go longtooth.
Oh mellored, you think of all the better ideas. Iron defense with damage reduce druid, paladin with revenant and weakening challenge... Already a better build. Need to rebuild him.

Not necessarily.  Not getting hit > reducing damage.  Since you avoid status effects as well.  And plauged regen doesn't work below 0 (not that you're likely to reach that far).

Also, there i think you can get a few THP for not attacking...  pacifist feat of some kind...  not sure.

And don't forget you can teleport INTO enemies squares (if they are medium+).    Which is what i was trying to exploit.  With Antipathy Gloves + HBO or the like.

Hmm..   Antipathy Gloves + Marshal of Letherna + Deft Footwork...  takes 3 squares to move 1, then you shift with them, take another 3 to move, then 2...   Can we boost movement cost higher?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Interesting... I see what you were going for. Makes more use of being tiny than this build, honestly this might work just as well without being Tiny.

Pacifist feats still require an attack to gain the benefit of not dealing damage, so that's out.

I hadn't thought of teleporting into enemy squares. I like it! HBO won't work Tiny, though, as it still requires an attack.

Antipathy Gloves + Deft Footwork work just fine with this build, though, very clever. Means they can't get away. I like it. Could do Marshal of Letherna too if you're willing to sacrifice some damage, although I'm actually looking for ways to boost it. Any ideas?

What I'm actually thinking is that this build would work really well in groups. Two or three plague rats, all swarming in the same square as an enemy, all of their damage auras overlapping for multiplying damage. Too bad Divine Challenge overwrites itself. Pretty terrifying, too.

Aside from Rod of Starlight, there's no reason this build necessarily needs to be hybrid warlock. Sacrifice a bit of damage, can pull out a different hybrid and just MC warlock for Evermeet. What's a good hybrid to add? Rogue with Improved Cunning Sneak + Enshrouding Candle to gain invisible to all enemies instead of just the target? Wouldn't need MC warlock at all, frees up PP.

Actually... and this is a weird thought. If you grab an enemy, then transform into a rat, does that automatically break your grab? You can't make attacks, but it doesn't say anything about sustaining them. Go brawler with lots of improved grabs, combine it with the sustain/escape attempt punishment from the horrible grabbing monster, you're clinging to them dealing damage automatically every turn AND every time they try to escape. Nothing prevents you from sustaining with minor, TD with standard to shift/teleport/hide with evermeet/rogue, and with Sash of Ensnarement even if they do force move me one square away I'm still in grab reach so it wouldn't break the hold, and even if they did antipathy gloves + deft footwork means they wouldn't go far, and I could take a turn to grab again in human and repeat. Gotta check the Rules forum to see if this pans out, if it does that's freakin awesome.
Regeneration doesn't stack, unless it specifically says "increases by", it won't help. What's lmk?




that's Let Me Know. And the ED was a suggestion for a larger source of base regen, albeit only at level 30.
My Works
My House Rules Cryptic Commander: a Tiefling Wizard|Warlord - Arcane Wayfarer - Planeshaper that focuses on controlling every creature in an encounter. Feyknight: A Half-Elf Knight - Gladiator Champion - Marshall of Letherna build that uses Eldritch Strike and the White Lotus Riposte feats to create a decent catch-22 with his mark aura. Novamancer: a Wizard/Swordmage - Malec-Keth Janissary - Radiant One that specializes in area damage, somewhat item dependent but is capable of massive damage. the Epic Crit-Fisher: Avenger/Ranger-PMC-Eternal Seeker with a 2,560 damage crit-fishing nova. Eldritch Slayer: A Slayer - Kulkor - Destined Scion that uses a similar trick to the Knight, combined with Kulkor for some decent DPR. Polearm Seeker|Fighter: A Seeker|Fighter/Psion - Kensei - Destined Scion build that uses Polearm Momentum to not be super bad. Generic Runepriest: A generic type Runepriest/Fighter - Hammer of Vengeance - Destined Scion
One does not
111819409 wrote:
99856009 wrote:
by RAW, you can't horse into the forge of the dawn titan.




...Couldn't resist.


What I'm actually thinking is that this build would work really well in groups. Two or three plague rats, all swarming in the same square as an enemy, all of their damage auras overlapping for multiplying damage. Too bad Divine Challenge overwrites itself. Pretty terrifying, too.

Hehe, and then when the monsters attack you, you can invoke the "bag of rat's" rule 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

World Tree's Growth (30th level): You have regeneration equal to the number of healing surges you have remaining.

Now that you mention it, I took a closer look at that ED and... wow. Excellent find!

This would give the original character in the first post Regen 29. You'd lose Radiant one, but I'm trying to find alternative sources of autodamage anyway. As long as you boost Con, it would work out. The only question is Plagued Regeneration - it says "Whenever you regain hit points from this regeneration". Would that mean you'd only deal the damage from your original regen?

World Tree's Growth (30th level): You have regeneration equal to the number of healing surges you have remaining.

Now that you mention it, I took a closer look at that ED and... wow. Excellent find!

This would give the original character in the first post Regen 29. You'd lose Radiant one, but I'm trying to find alternative sources of autodamage anyway. As long as you boost Con, it would work out. The only question is Plagued Regeneration - it says "Whenever you regain hit points from this regeneration". Would that mean you'd only deal the damage from your original regen?

World Tree and Plauged don't combo.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Variant #1
Combining damn near unavoidable grabs with invisibility, penalties for attempting to escape, penalties for attacking, and even penalties for staying in the grab. Higher total damage than paladin|warlock, plus immobilization. Added circling fangs to discourage them from attacking even more. Would be lots of fun to play, I think, if simple.

Warlock|Fighter/Paladin
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Dagnir Beta, level 30
Revenant, Warlock/Fighter, Evermeet Warlock, Radiant One
Hybrid Talent Option: Fighter Combat Talent
Arcane Implement Proficiency Option: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Staff)
Fighter Combat Talent Option: Brawler Style (Hybrid)
Choose your Race in Life: Longtooth Shifter
Spellscarred
Cursed (Stealth class skill)
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 22, CON 28, DEX 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 13
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 14, CON 18, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 8, CHA 11
 
AC: 35 Fort: 49 Ref: 41 Will: 39
AC: 48 Fort: 62 Ref: 54 Will: 52 with TD & invisibility
HP: 186 Surges: 16 Surge Value: 46
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +31, Intimidate +23, Stealth +27, Thievery +22
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Arcana +18, Athletics +21, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +15, Heal +15, History +16, Insight +15, Nature +15, Perception +15, Religion +16, Streetwise +16
 
POWERS
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Longtooth Shifter Racial Power: Longtooth Shifting
Thievery Utility 2: Fast Hands
Warlock Utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep
 
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Past Soul
Level 4: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 6: Shifting Defense
Level 8: Inescapable Hold
Level 10: Superior Fortitude
Level 11: Brawler Guard
Level 12: Improved Defenses
Level 14: Arcane Familiar
Level 16: Plagued Regeneration
Level 21: Soldier of the Faith
Level 22: Improved Grab
Level 24: Rapid Regeneration
Level 26: Ghostly Vitality
Level 26: Epic Will
Level 28: Epic Reflexes
Level 28: Epic Fortitude
Level 30: Crushing Grab
 
ITEMS
Rod of Starlight +6 x1
Mantle of the Seventh Wind Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +6 x1
Mirrored Mask (epic tier) x2
Bag of Holding (heroic tier)
Potion of Healing (heroic tier)
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
Staff of the Traveler +1
Defensive Wrist razors +6 x1
Grizzly Gauntlets (heroic tier) x1
Waistband of the Grappler (paragon tier) x1
Lightstep Slippers (epic tier) x1
Life Charm +6 x1
Ring of Circling Fangs (paragon tier) x2
====== End ======

REGENERATION:
6 Longtooth Shifter
+3 Plagued Regeneration
+9 Rapid Regeneration
+1 Int Radiant One
+6 vuln Rod of Starlight
+9 Pelor
34 automatic damage to adjacent

SUSTAIN GRAB
+5 Crushing Grab
+6 Str
+1 Int Radiant One
+6 vuln Rod of Starlight
+9 Pelor
27 automatic damage to grabbed

ESCAPE GRAB
+2 Crushing Pin
+1 Int Radiant One
+6 vuln Rod of Starlight
+9 Pelor
18 automatic damage to escape attempts

ATTACK ME
+10 Ring of Circling Fangs
+10 Ring of Circling Fangs
+1 Int Radiant One
+6 vuln Rod of Starlight
+9 Pelor
36 automatic damage when attacked

GRAB ATTACK
15 half level
+6 STR
+8 feat Improved Grab
+3 item Grizzly Gauntlets
+5 power Waistband
+2 CA
+6 brawler style
45 to grab attack

SAMPLE TURN:

1 BEGINNING OF TURN: Gain 18HP, deal 18 damage to enemy, adding 16 as above for 34 damage
2 MINOR: Sustain grab, deal 27 damage to enemy
3 STANDARD: Total Defense (+8 defenses), shift>teleport from adjacent to adjacent to same enemy to become invisible (+5 defenses)
4 MINOR: Warlock Curse (sustain vulnerability 6 radiant)
5 ENEMY TURN:
    5.1 Enemy targets him, misses, takes 36 damage
    5.2 Enemy tries to escape, goes against 62 Fort, fails, takes 18 damage
    5.3 Enemy attacks ally - nothing I can do about it, but at least they're immobilized
6 GOTO 1

RESULT:

This man runs up to you, clamps his arms around you and turns into a tiny, flicking, hovering, disappearing rat. You can't move. You feel very sick.  You try to escape, you feel needles dig into your skin.  You try to stab him, brush him off, grab him, it hurts even worse. Every turn he is scrabbling on you, you feel like you can't breath. Eventually, you can't.


FYI, invis doesn't help with escape attempts, but fort is still plenty high.

And personally i think a less damaging, better mark variant (fighter|paladin/warlock) would be better.  Paticularly since rod of starlight (and thus pelor's) only works for 1 round (you can't re-curse).

Also Pact Blade as say, a wrist razor.  Might be something else in my retaliator build...  i found all the damage return stuff and put it there...
Edit: ok, nm, i forgot you needed a free hand to grab.



Only major problem is teleports...   hmm...  only thing i can fine is a Dimensional Anchor.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

you can't grab medium when tiny....


that's a pretty cheesy use of RAW to say "BUT I WAS BIG WHEN I GRABBED AND ONLY HAVE TO SUSTAIN LOLOLOL"


ahh well, I'm sure the dm can find some teleporting enemies with at will, enemy only, close burst powers.
Rat's like cheesy things. So that must be a compliment :-p

Though you bring up a good point. Any way to grab bigger things?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Goliath's Belt.
Goliath's Belt ??
Goliath's Belt!

But only up to Medium creatures. Not sure what you're supposed to do about that. Isn't there a PP for grabbing creatures of unlimited size?

Also, build is designed to max fort. Bumped defenses were for defenses, and like you said, wouldn't help with escape attempts, so it's only 57 fort against escape attempts but level+27 is pretty damn good.

Also, wait, you can't recurse a target? Why not?

You can’t place a Warlock’s Curse on a creature that is already affected by your or another character’s Warlock’s Curse.

Well, f*ck. Doesn't that just screw up all my pretty little plans. I suppose there's a reason inflicting radiant vulnerability is so hard. Now I've got to figure out how to make all that damage psychic so I can use Rod of Ulban. No Pelor's Boon, though. Bugger, that screws up everything.

I suppose you could use Bloodied Boon to curse the same enemy twice, but it's still not at-will, and that upsets me.

Luckily, Variant 2 doesn't use radiant vulnerability. It's also a Fighter|Barbarian/(monk?) with Thief of Legends for invisibility to everyone, leaving my multiclass and paragon path wide open (although Dragon's Grasp is swanky). There's two great barbarian dailies that give huge boosts to grabs (as a rage, so it lasts all encounter) AND inflict damage on sustains, and in case there's a third encounter in that day there's Gouge Pin for an auto-grab just in case. I'll post the full build tomorrow but basic stat estimates right now are +53/55 to grab, 21 regen damage, 26/31 grab sustain damage, 30 attack-me damage. It's about 15 less damage, but since the original doesn't f*cking work it's still clearly better.

Also, Dimensional Anchor in Bag of Holding. It's still only a minor to pull out, right? :P With a strength as high as this guy he can probably heft it as a 1d10 improvised weapon if he was an Arena Fighter. More fun than feyslaughter gauntlets! And, most importantly, since the statue works on all creatures, the fact that Variant 2 doesn't rely on evermeet means it'll still work.
Goliath's Belt!

But only up to Medium creatures. Not sure what you're supposed to do about that. Isn't there a PP for grabbing creatures of unlimited size?

You're medium when you make the grab attempt.  So you can grab something huge.

Also, Sovereign Beast let's you be large at-will.  So you can grab something collossal, then shrink... requires druid though.

Also, build is designed to max fort. Bumped defenses were for defenses, and like you said, wouldn't help with escape attempts, so it's only 57 fort against escape attempts but level+27 is pretty damn good.

Yup.  Demogorgon seems to have the highest at 35.  So he can't break the grab... though he can teleport so...

Also, Dimensional Anchor in Bag of Holding. It's still only a minor to pull out, right? :P With a strength as high as this guy he can probably heft it as a 1d10 improvised weapon if he was an Arena Fighter. More fun than feyslaughter gauntlets! And, most importantly, since the statue works on all creatures, the fact that Variant 2 doesn't rely on evermeet means it'll still work.

Not sure you can do it in rat form....  hmm...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I don't like the idea of sustaining a grab you don't qualify for anymore. Making a grab, yes, sustaining it as long as it's legal, yes, but I'd like to find a way of grabbing creatures much larger than my size. Gouge Pin might work, as it's an auto-grab without any requirements, but that's a daily.

As for the statue, pull it out as you start the fight, you're beginning in human form anyway to start the grab.

If we want this to be a really all-cases build, we'd need to counteract phasing as well. Any ideas? Variant 2 has a free PP now, and a free multiclass if you want to ignore Dragon's Grasp. Phasing does mean you can escape grabs, right?

And pure invisibility (and light-step slippers) is good, but still only a +5 to all defenses - is 48 for lowest stat good enough to keep you from getting hit? Might need to invest in some damage reduction. Sehanine is guaranteed, and you ARE regenerating 20 HP every round. Maybe scorpion carapace armor, planestriders, assassin's cloak to get genuine hidden - although, how do the normal rules of losing invisible/invisible vs. hidden/bumping into someone while hidden work with Thief of Legend? Do they still automatically find you if they enter your square, which they're technically doing the whole time since you're IN their square? So odd, the rule questions we can come up with.

Actually, here's another one. Can you actually use Wild Shape while you're in Body of the Rat? Do you keep the benefits of both? I think there's some rule about only being under the effects of one polymorph at a time...

Another problem is being between enemies. For one whole turn you're in human form while you move from one enemy to another, since you can only polymorph once per round. That's a vulnerable time, since you can't do a grab action AND Total Defense at the same turn without an action point, and that's -8 to all your defenses. Is there a way to turn Total Defense or a grab into a minor action?

EDIT: Giant's Might would let you grab Large creatures in Tiny form with the belt. I think that's the biggest you can do. That's actually a pretty severe limitation. You might actually have to stay in human form while grabbing Colossal creatures - if you did so you'd lose your stealth bonus, but... that's about it, actually. There's not a lot that's important about being Tiny except being in enemy squares, and you can grab just fine while adjacent. Interesting.
The only at-will, sustainable grab i see is Assassins's hidden stab, or garrot strangle.  Though garrot strangle get's rid of your total defense (though gives damage)  Either way, you'll still be "using a grab you no longer qualify for".  Since you can't grab at all as a rat...

Personally i find the idea of a rat holding timmat down hilarious, and have no problems doing so.

Actually, here's another one. Can you actually use Wild Shape while you're in Body of the Rat? Do you keep the benefits of both? I think there's some rule about only being under the effects of one polymorph at a time...

Nope.  1 polymorph at a time.  Though you "que" them.  So if your a rat, turn into a sovern beast, then end the beast, you turn back into a rat.

That's a vulnerable time, since you can't do a grab action AND Total Defense at the same turn without an action point, and that's -8 to all your defenses.

Hmm... good point...

mabey a dwarf's second wind?

There's not a lot that's important about being Tiny except being in enemy squares, and you can grab just fine while adjacent. Interesting.

Well, if they are 2 sizes bigger, you can do it anyways.  So rat form really only applies to medium/large creatures.  And only really gives you a benifit from Antipathy Gloves, (and style points).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Good point. I suppose I could just ignore the size requirements... but sustaining powers isn't forbidden, and ending a grab when you no longer qualify for its conditions (within reach, not dazed, etc) is accepted by rules, so. I'm not sure.

How often can you second wind? I know armors let you do that as well.

Tiny, you can only grab creatures medium or smaller. I'm certain there's a paragon path or an epic destiny or an item or a skill power that lets you do it to any size...

And antipathy gloves don't matter much when you're a grappler anyway. Style points 100%, though.

EDIT: And you can stack grabs all you want. Little invisible rats, sucking the life out of you. Love it :D
Good point. I suppose I could just ignore the size requirements... but sustaining powers isn't forbidden, and ending a grab when you no longer qualify for its conditions (within reach, not dazed, etc) is accepted by rules, so. I'm not sure.

Well... according to the onling compendium.  It only ends if you can't take oppertunity actions, or if it's out of reach.  So there's no reason you couldn't sustain it.

Might be out of date though...  anyone got an RC?
How often can you second wind?

1/encounter by default.  I know there's a thread about getting it 3+ times per encounter.  For a dwarf warden.

Tiny, you can only grab creatures medium or smaller. I'm certain there's a paragon path or an epic destiny or an item or a skill power that lets you do it to any size...

Don't see any...  only the belt, as suggested above.

And antipathy gloves don't matter much when you're a grappler anyway. Style points 100%, though.

True.  Style points are about the only thing gained by being a rat now.  Assuming you go the grab route.   Antipathy Gloves would fit in your first build pretty nicely, though without an OA, it's only an added inconvience (though, they can't shift away from allies).

I'm also thinking of a rat form = shock collar variant (revenant deva brawler|defender/monk), grab them, and damaging them for doing anything but sitting pretty (attack ally? you take damage, try and escape? you take damage, try and get the collar off? you take damage).  I want to train bahamut as a pet 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

If the online compendium can be trusted, then that's a load off my mind. I wanted to be a tiny rat grabbing Orcus, myself.

If the Deva is for the ED, then that's perfect for grabbing the Barbarian dailies. Whoah. Too bad the stats don't line up, but at that point they don't matter, it's only -2ish to damage.

That means you can combine the warlock|paladin/monk with the barbarian grab rages for +4/6 to grab attacks AND 5/10+Str for sustaining. That's amazing! The only issue now is getting the extra damage - without radiant one, he's looking a little more like an annoying itch than a shock collar. Although reintroducing Weakening Challenge is a huge plus.

Grab Attack: Unavoidably high
Plague: 6+3+Con [18]
Sustain: 5/10+Str+Str [21/26]
Attack Him: 30 rings of circling fangs
Attack Ally: 4+Cha+weakened+X

It's the missing X on DC that's a little weak to be a good disincentive. How do we add damage? Rod of Ulban gives permanent vulnerability 10, so if you can make all of that psychic damage then you're golden. On the other hand damage doesn't matter with Pervasive Light, but you'd need some way of giving them constant vulnerability to radiant.
Well... according to the onling compendium.  It only ends if you can't take oppertunity actions, or if it's out of reach.  So there's no reason you couldn't sustain it.

Might be out of date though...  anyone got an RC?



It's actually even better now; you have be unable to take actions at all (like being stunned or dominated) before you lose your grab; just losing OAs isn't enough anymore.
If the online compendium can be trusted, then that's a load off my mind. I wanted to be a tiny rat grabbing Orcus, myself.

Should probably ask on the Q&A forum.

If the Deva is for the ED, then that's perfect for grabbing the Barbarian dailies. Whoah. Too bad the stats don't line up, but at that point they don't matter, it's only -2ish to damage.

And being a dwarf.  Also, restless dead + potent rebirth for even more to-hit and worse escape attempts.  Stormhawk might also be an option, but you're not likely to be hit/hurt by attacks.

Of course, it doesn't work with regen (BTW, how are you staying below bloodied?)

Grab Attack: Unavoidably high
Plague: 6+3+Con [18]
Sustain: 5/10+Str+Str [21/26]
Attack Him: 30 rings of circling fangs
Attack Ally: 4+Cha+weakened+X

It's the missing X on DC that's a little weak to be a good disincentive. How do we add damage? Rod of Ulban gives permanent vulnerability 10, so if you can make all of that psychic damage then you're golden. On the other hand damage doesn't matter with Pervasive Light, but you'd need some way of giving them constant vulnerability to radiant.

Hmm..  Mighty challenge for Str.  Possibly Io's Challenge for + Con, Possibly Blessed Strength for Str (-Cha), and symbol of the champions code for +enh.

Edit: Hospitaliter PP isn't damage, but it really makes attacking allies pointless.  Especially while weakened, he could end up healing more then hurting.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Well... according to the onling compendium.  It only ends if you can't take oppertunity actions, or if it's out of reach.  So there's no reason you couldn't sustain it.

Might be out of date though...  anyone got an RC?

It's actually even better now; you have be unable to take actions at all (like being stunned or dominated) before you lose your grab; just losing OAs isn't enough anymore.

 Thanks for the confirmation.

Rat's can hold orcus down without issue.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Excellent find on the Hospitaler, but if it's part paladin then it's part warlock for Evermeet and that PP is taken. Only the fighter|barbarian Thief of Legend would get the free paragon path. Maybe fighter|paladin/monk Hospitaler ToL, but you lose quite a bit of sustain damage. Fighter|paladin/barbarian maybe, with adept power? Only get you one daily, though.

As for staying bloodied, I'm guessing Caiphon Boots. I hadn't thought about it, I suppose there goes his foot slot, and a minor, and it's less than his regen value... hmm. Might need an alternative method of staying below half health. I do submit he's not going to want to focus on sub-zero fighting, since he loses his regen. Wasn't there a warlock daily that had a sustain that deals damage to you?

And I totally forgot about all the DC boosters. I was more wondering how to boost overall damage. We're looking at 39 guaranteed each turn for sustaining/plagueing, with 30 damage for attack him and 20+weakened for attacking allies (possibly granting HP as well). Getting more rounded, I dig it.

EDIT: Doom of Delban, so it's an attack, so it needs to be done before you shift, and requires sustain standard, which isn't good.

EDIT: Also, sweet goodness on sustaining colossal grabs as a tiny. Really conjures images of this rat biting the nape of Demogorgon's neck.
Excellent find on the Hospitaler, but if it's part paladin then it's part warlock for Evermeet and that PP is taken. Only the fighter|barbarian Thief of Legend would get the free paragon path. Maybe fighter|paladin/monk Hospitaler ToL, but you lose quite a bit of sustain damage. Fighter|paladin/barbarian maybe, with adept power? Only get you one daily, though.

Possibly swap paladin for battlemind.  Mind Spike scales without issue or investment.  I think the rest of mark stuff are attacks... (well shielding/ensaring swordmage, but that's no damage/pointless).

Hmm... could Paladin|Battlemind/monk get a high enough grab?  Cause divine sanction + mindspike would be pretty nasty.

Bloodfire Armor will add a bit too.

As for staying bloodied, I'm guessing Caiphon Boots. I hadn't thought about it, I suppose there goes his foot slot, and a minor, and it's less than his regen value... hmm. Might need an alternative method of staying below half health. I do submit he's not going to want to focus on sub-zero fighting, since he loses his regen.

Well you need to keep shifting to maintain invis anyways.

Edit: Wait, boots of caiphon + staff of traveler = no damage   I guess you don't HAVE to telleport.  So standard->total defense, minor->sustain, minor->damage, minor->hide... 

Hmm... what happens if your hidden, and the enemy "guesses" a square he occupies?

EDIT: Also, sweet goodness on sustaining colossal grabs as a tiny. Really conjures images of this rat biting the nape of Demogorgon's neck.

You need Druid to grab collosal.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

GRAB ATTACK
15 half level
+6 STR
+8 feat Improved Grab
+3 item Grizzly Gauntlets/+2 Boots of Giantkind
+2 CA
[+5 power Waistband - maybe not, if Goliath Belt]
[+4/6 barbarian dailies]
[+6 monk dragon's grasp]
[+6 brawler style]

34 minimum, which isn't assured.
Fighter|Barbarian/Monk would get 55, though.
Need to find a good compromise.

Get Gouge Pin for Demogorgon. Automatic grab, and you probably wouldn't need to grab him more than once a day.

Bloodfire Armor + tiefling + hell's burning mark = 10 extra ongoing fire. Puts up to 49 autodamage for sustaining a grab while adjacent.

Paladin|Fighter/Monk Hospitaler Thief of Legend would have perma-invisibility, divine challenge, grappler bonus, no rages, no mindspike, excellent grabs, ok damage, great ally healing, weakening challenge
Fighter|Barbarian/Monk X Thief of Legend would have perma-invisibility, grappler bonus, rages, excellent grabs, PP free
Paladin|Fighter/Warlock Evermeet Soul of the World would have perma-invisibility, divine challenge, grappler bonus, rages, no mindspike, excellent grabs, extra aura damage from bloodfire+hell's mark, weakening challenge
Fighter|Battlemind/Warlock Evermeet Soul of the World would have perma-invisibility, mind spike, grappler bonus, rages, excellent grabs, good damage

Need at least half fighter for Inescapable Hold, otherwise they'll escape too easily. Good options look like Paladin|Fighter/Warlock and Battlemind|Fighter/Warlock, with the main trade-off being static damage + weakening vs. scaling damage + no weakening. Both would have punishment for everything, teleporting invisibility, barbarian rages, grab of 46, and I'll have to do the math before I can see which deals more damage. Might balance out and be personal preference.

EDIT: Also, I was only counting on invisibility to gain +5 to all defenses, not make myself unhittable, so being hidden isn't any more important than just gaining total concealment.
You can add +6 with a grasping weapon (doesn't stack with monk) for 40.  44 if you take the sub-zero stuff.  Mual-Tar has 50, though it's still a very good chance against at-level foes.

And if your not worried about being hidden (it's actually -5 to hit, not +5 defense, so it won't help hold people), i don't see much point in evermeet.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

It was just for the stacked defenses. Trying not to get hit. I figure a mob would have a very good chance of guessing where the creature grabbing it would be. Unless you think true hidden would be a good bet?

And I know evermeet wouldn't help hold. Relying on very high fort for that.

And grasping weapons grab the enemy with the weapon itself, so it wouldn't keep in rat form. And staying sub-zero wouldn't help because the original point of the build was ongoing regen damage. Drop that, you're making an entirely different theme, you know?
It was just for the stacked defenses. Trying not to get hit. I figure a mob would have a very good chance of guessing where the creature grabbing it would be. Unless you think true hidden would be a good bet?

You'd still only be hidden from 1 person (unless they where all clustered).  And while it's nice to be really unhitable.  It seems better to boost punishment, since right now, attacking an ally is the best option for the creature.

Unless your trying to go solo...

And grasping weapons grab the enemy with the weapon itself, so it wouldn't keep in rat form.

Hmmm...  guess your right.  Bummer, that hurt's the alternitives.

And staying sub-zero wouldn't help because the original point of the build was ongoing regen damage. Drop that, you're making an entirely different theme, you know?

True, we've got enough ideas for a few differnt builds here.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I think we already started to stretch the build's premise when we added grappler instead of being 100% pacifistic. Could probably go back and deal good damage that way with what we've learned trying to build him out.

The only-being-hidden-from-one-guy problem was why I thought of pumping stealth and going for Thief of Legend. Not sure how it'd interact with physically grabbing an opponent though, but at the very least they're getting -5 to hit from invisibility, and if he stays mobile he could get hidden as well. Paladin|Fighter/Monk Hospitaler Thief of Legend might be a useful option again. Could also try Fighter|Barbarian/Monk like my original Variant 2 and have good grabs, rages, good damage, but no mark punishment.
Hell's burning mark won't work.  It's only vuln against attack powers, which you can't do as a rat.

For the origional idea, i suggest Skiping grabs and just go dex/cha Battlemind|Paladin/Evermeet warlock/Marshal of Letherna.  With antithapy gloves and Deft Footwork.

Run under someone, and their (effectivly) slowed, can't shift, -2 to hit, taking "ongoing" 20ish damage, weakened, and take more damage then they deal to an ally.

You can even use the Rod of Ulban against 1 enemy.  Since you won't ever hit to "use" the curse, and mind spike is psychic.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Ok, ditching grabs for right now, we've got weakening challenge, antipathy gloves, mind spike, rod of ulban once an encounter, deft gloves, evermeet invisibility, bloodiron armor, only problem I see with that is dumping Con means your regeneration does crap damage. 6+3+2 maybe? Armor for an extra 5? Can we go Con/Cha? Guaranteed damage is better than "if you do this then" damage.

Also, if you're going for difficult terrain, go Planeshaper. Radius 10 permanently difficult terrain, plus an aura of 15 fire or ice damage to add to the plague damage (make sure your allies get resist). You can also build boxes around enemies just for fun. You'd have to figure out strength DCs/object hit points for adamantine walls, but I don't know why people don't take more advantage of an ED that ludicrously open-ended. Now you're being bitten by an invisible plague rat AND you're trapped in an iron box with him.
Soulfang (s).  Will help you keep regen runing.  Take ~25 damage, then regen ~25.  diffiuclt to Balance perfectly though...

Still boot's of caiphon won't work.  Since you can't use powers. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Ok, ditching grabs for right now, we've got weakening challenge, antipathy gloves, mind spike, rod of ulban once an encounter, deft gloves, evermeet invisibility, bloodiron armor, only problem I see with that is dumping Con means your regeneration does crap damage. 6+3+2 maybe? Armor for an extra 5? Can we go Con/Cha? Guaranteed damage is better than "if you do this then" damage.

We loose stealth that way.  But i guess having an aura of damage is gunna kinda point you out anyways....  So yea, that's better.  Might not need warlock then...

Also, if you're going for difficult terrain, go Planeshaper. Radius 10 permanently difficult terrain, plus an aura of 15 fire or ice damage to add to the plague damage (make sure your allies get resist). You can also build boxes around enemies just for fun. You'd have to figure out strength DCs/object hit points for adamantine walls, but I don't know why people don't take more advantage of an ED that ludicrously open-ended. Now you're being bitten by an invisible plague rat AND you're trapped in an iron box with him.

Nice.  Forgot about that one.  Though it only kicks in at 30...

Still the lvl 21 feature is nice.  Since it doesn't say attack power, and we're going to use alot of utiliy, possibly one to give THP to help balance out the soulfangs.  Or perhaps just to spread some marks around.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

We still need invisibility for the -5 to getting hit and the Sehanine's half damage. Very handy.

You don't need line of sight for plagued regeneration, do you? Because you might be able to do it to an enemy inside a box adjacent to you. But we're losing the tiny rat goal again.

You know, I've never actually looked at Soulfangs. I like it. Ironskin Soulfang would have you constantly bouncing between bloodied and unbloodied. Since that and the regen happen at the beginning of your turn, you could decide what order they go in, so you regen X HP and then get knocked back down to bloodied. Neat. Might need two soulfangs. Can you re-use a soulfang?
How would this build do at earlier levels? At what point does it all really start to come together (because it's awesome!)
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