Mocking our Ancestors: How people rated Darksteel when it came out

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I was searching through the old threads on MTGnews.com (it still has threads from a decade ago) and I was amused to see people responding to Inquest Magazine's Top 10 list. As usually, Inquest gets it wrong, but boy howdy! the people on the Internet get it worse! 
 
www.mtgnews.com/showthread.php?t=162736


Basically, everyone agrees that Arcbound Ravager shouldn't be so high (7th place!) and only 1 person mentioned Sword of Fire and Ice


Set your mocking to Cruel! 

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Well...
It's....
They got skullclamp right. 

Really though it seems appropriate that a thread about Mirrodin block could be accurately summarized as "WHOOPS!" 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I've never even heard of Vulshok War Boar

It was prolly real beef in limited.  Or should I say pork?

It was only the affinity interactions in Constructed that made Ravager busted, so that makes sense if they are judging the set by itself...

...but no Swords?  They must be brain-dead.
Aarrgh, he just hit me in the nards with a TV DINNER! -actual phone conversation
122343719 wrote:
I can't really understand people that just go along with the school, job, marrige, kids type goals in life because that is what they think is right. If people want those things they should want them because it makes them happy. I had an ex like that, she wanted those things because her family and her peers all wanted those things. Thinking for yourself is one of the greatest things you are capable of.
500th post- 3/15/11 1000th post- 4/7/12
They hit the nail on the head for Skullclamp, which is pretty impressive.

I also remember Arcbound Ravager not being that impressive at first glance because only Affinity (not a great deck at the time) was running artifact lands. It's not an interaction that jumps right out at you the first time you look at the card.
That blissturd dude is really obnoxious.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Well, it takes a little while to really figure out sets. 2004 is still the youth of the Internet. I mean, for perspective, Youtube hadn't even been invented yet. 6 years and general acceptance of Networking being a necessity and not a casual geek thing have changed a lot of networking abilities.

Still, taking a look at the list...

1) Skullclamp - Yep. It was obviously breakable, and it sure got worse than their first impression.
2) A 5/5 for 4 and a spellbomb was FANTASTIC speed in the day. I can understand how they rated it high. They just didn't understand the silly little Arcbound decks were going to be really strong.
3) Oxidize is cheap removal in the format. Should have been great. Kinda like how Revoke Existance should be better than it is.
4) Pulse of the Tangle *was* deck worthy, and I think it did see play. It did end up too slow, in the end.
5) Velduk Engineer *would* have been fantastic. 2 mana generator at common isn't a bad little card. It was a good enough ability to give ALL blue cards when Grand Archetict came around. However, Affinity made even this fantastic ability just bad in comparision. I'm sure it was powerful in draft.
6) Glaivemaster was a potential 4/2 First Striker (With a Bonesplitter in hand) at the common level, lightyears ahead of the Still In Rotation White Knight. This was a speedy little beat down critter.
7) As it turns out, Archbound Ravager was much better than people had thought. Go fig. :D
8) If there is any card that is mock worthy on the list it's Wand of Elementals. Sure, it's something to do with excess lands. It encourages Red/Blue play, and Blue was powerful in the day. It just... it seems even weak by the standards of the day. I'm not sure what pet deck someone was playing, but it didn't see play long, I imagine.
9)Mirrodin's Core still *sees* play in casual enviroments. It's not a bad choice. Of course, Ravnica came around and gave us better lands, but it wasn't bad.
10)Leonin Shikari is a key card for some equipment strategies, and in it's way is much better than Brass Squire. Not horribly powerful in the end of that particular block and standard, but it still has potential.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
What the frack is up with all the love of Pulse of the Fields?  I played at that time, and I can't recall it ever being considered a serious card; oh and WoE is really such a "meh" card.
What the frack is up with all the love of Pulse of the Fields?  I played at that time, and I can't recall it ever being considered a serious card; oh and WoE is really such a "meh" card.

That one and the red one were actually damn good back when it was possible to 'fine tune' one's own life total with manaburn.
Regardless of what Rosewater claims, they got rid of manaburn exactly because we figured out how to exploit it for an advantage, not because it confused noobs.
Regardless of what Rosewater claims, they got rid of manaburn exactly because we figured out how to exploit it for an advantage, not because it confused noobs.

Can't it be both?

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Well, it takes a little while to really figure out sets. 2004 is still the youth of the Internet. I mean, for perspective, Youtube hadn't even been invented yet. 6 years and general acceptance of Networking being a necessity and not a casual geek thing have changed a lot of networking abilities.

Still, taking a look at the list...

1) Skullclamp - Yep. It was obviously breakable, and it sure got worse than their first impression.
2) A 5/5 for 4 and a spellbomb was FANTASTIC speed in the day. I can understand how they rated it high. They just didn't understand the silly little Arcbound decks were going to be really strong.
3) Oxidize is cheap removal in the format. Should have been great. Kinda like how Revoke Existance should be better than it is.
4) Pulse of the Tangle *was* deck worthy, and I think it did see play. It did end up too slow, in the end.
5) Velduk Engineer *would* have been fantastic. 2 mana generator at common isn't a bad little card. It was a good enough ability to give ALL blue cards when Grand Archetict came around. However, Affinity made even this fantastic ability just bad in comparision. I'm sure it was powerful in draft.
6) Glaivemaster was a potential 4/2 First Striker (With a Bonesplitter in hand) at the common level, lightyears ahead of the Still In Rotation White Knight. This was a speedy little beat down critter.
7) As it turns out, Archbound Ravager was much better than people had thought. Go fig. :D
8) If there is any card that is mock worthy on the list it's Wand of Elementals. Sure, it's something to do with excess lands. It encourages Red/Blue play, and Blue was powerful in the day. It just... it seems even weak by the standards of the day. I'm not sure what pet deck someone was playing, but it didn't see play long, I imagine.
9)Mirrodin's Core still *sees* play in casual enviroments. It's not a bad choice. Of course, Ravnica came around and gave us better lands, but it wasn't bad.
10)Leonin Shikari is a key card for some equipment strategies, and in it's way is much better than Brass Squire. Not horribly powerful in the end of that particular block and standard, but it still has potential.




I agree with you that all these cards are pretty good. It's just that Darksteel has so many better cards in it. Darksteel Colossus and Darksteel Citadel off the top of my hat.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Equipment was new and it was harder to evaluate.

Heck, it still is.

Honestly surprised they got Ravager into the top 10 at the time. He was a sleeper.  Good foresight on their part.

IMO, in retrospect, the list should include:

10. Blinkmoth Nexus
9. Echoing Truth
8. Serum Powder
7. Sword of Fire and Ice
6. Death Cloud
5. Sundering Titan
4. Trinisphere
3. Arcbound Ravager
2. Aether Vial
1. Skullclamp

That's just this man's opinion anyway. 
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Can't it be both?



Okay, how many players were confused by manaburn in the beginning? Anybody?

(And this is really funny, since Pulse's "disadvantage" ability is so easy to break with manaburn.)
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
I remember reading ICDs and "Top 10 of set" rating threads for Morningtide on Salvation. Bitterblossom and Reveillark were apparently "perhaps playable in constructed". Card of the set was usually Mutavault or Countryside Crusher, IIRC, so at least they got something semi-right. Still, UB Mannequin should've taught them something re:Lark.
Trying to help "I'm original" people build better decks is self-sabotage: Good advice will inevitably be ignored because someone did it before. The gist of Magic is going to MWS/MTGO, playing Island, Ponder and watching the opponent ragequit.
Can't it be both?



Okay, how many players were confused by manaburn in the beginning? Anybody?

(And this is really funny, since Pulse's "disadvantage" ability is so easy to break with manaburn.)



In all my years, I never was in a situation where mana burn ever mattered. I remember reading it in the rulebook that came with my Revised starter deck, but since it never came up I guess I just assumed the rule wasn't played with anymore. 

And the idea of forcing mana-burn on another player never, ever crossed my mind. I was flabbergasted the first time I read about the practice.  
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
Can't it be both?



Okay, how many players were confused by manaburn in the beginning? Anybody?



It was not uncommon to get questions about it in RQ&A, I would say that yes it confuse new players.