Reprints confirmed, how would you like them?

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
Although I don't have the link, it seems that Aaron Forsythe has confirmed that they plan to reprint staples to keep prices on check. So our worst fear of having another Vintage or Legacy debacle has been dissipated. However, these arises new questions.

First, how much should a staple cost ideally? My take should be about $15 for shocklands and niche deck staples, $20-$25 for cards like Grove of the Burnwillows or Cryptic Command and $30 for top cards like Goyf and Bob, although I wonder how much the owners of this cards are willing to lose.

Second, which would be your preferred way of having these cards reprinted:

a) Singletons in special products (EDH, Duel decks, etc). An annoying waste of cardboard, and little effect on price.
b) Mythics of expansion sets. Not enough, especially if they also become Standard staples. Mythic Goyf may actually increase its price for two years before soaring again.
c) Regular rares of expansion sets. Now this may be too much. Shocklands are fit to be reprinted this way because they are the the basis of every deck, but on other staples it could drive the price under $15.
d) Promos. Foils are annoying, but assuming they weren't foil it would be a natural way to deliver the product to the spike crowd.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
Utility stuff (lands, instants, common/uncommon other types) reprinted in core or block sets.

Staples reprinted in duel decks and premium decklists, or occasionally reprinted in core/block sets if it makes sense to do so.

That way, WotC isn't stuck in a 5-year loop where they need to re-submit every modern staple into a core or block set just to keep prices down.

It also wouldn't hurt to have the FNM promos not, you know, suck donkey balls.

Photobucket
Ideal price for the "best cards", given that they are pieces of card paper which hold sentiment to the people which play them... $5ea. for the absolute "best" rares and uncommons, $1ea. for the "junk rares", and nifty uncommons that make for nifty building. Once again, ideally speaking. We can all dream of a world where deck prices top off at $40-100 depending on how many expensive staples you pack in. Since the cards are specific, I would say to cut the crap, and sell something which is explicitly made up of a certain type of staple like duallands, for a solid MSRP that is available at chain retailers so SCG and brick and mortars don't pull us around by the teeth.
IMAGE(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af108/acatan/sigwynzermancopy.png) Signature by IMAGE(http://www.poke-amph.com/heartgoldsoulsilver/sprites/258.png)
Under 10$ for the more expensive cards, particularly the kind which you're going to have 4-8+ (by 8+ I am refering to similar not identical cards of course) of in your deck.

Under 20$ for the really expensive stuff you'll have 1-4 of.

Even cheaper would be better, especially for lands.

What pisses me off are cards, such as lands, that go in any deck you can think of off the top of your head, and just make it flat out better than it was before, which also cost an arm and a leg. It's a real bitch to build a good deck for 20$, but then need to spend 200$ on lands to make it competitive with decks that burn money for the advantage of superior lands.

So I'd love to see the lands reprinted over and over, and also made promo's, until their price is completely run into the ground.

If that was done, I wouldn't mind so much about other expensive 'top cards' being out there, as it would be more reasonably possible to build budget alternatives.

In an ideal world I'd want them all to be 25c, but you can't have everything I suppose.

 
I say Shocklands printed in a core set, depending on if they do some type of rotation later on.

Stagger out the staple cards over the next 20 sets (barring goyf which I have no idea the rarity, nor the fit other than core maybe) But even then would be pretty rough as a core set card

I wouldnt mind duel deck distribution only if they printed more lots of the dual decks instead of the tiny print runs they do now. Instead I reccomend doing more commander product, should the need arise to intro newer players to older cards. This would give them ways to limit the amount out there and still make profit on cards, while also supporting a fun format with out of box playability.

From the vaults stuff is pretty much under the duel decks print runs if not more so. That and they are either the MSRP of 39.99 or depending on the vendor and whats inside $100+.  Which I really hate since even though my local card shop CAN get the FTV stuff, he never can get enough since even if he pre orders lots they always cut his order by half. And he doesnt pad his price's either.
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead." —Jaya Ballard, task mage
Although I don't have the link, it seems that Aaron Forsythe has confirmed that they plan to reprint staples to keep prices on check. So our worst fear of having another Vintage or Legacy debacle has been dissipated. However, these arises new questions.



I don't see how reprinting them will keep the price down. Just for the sake of an example, they printed Stoneforge in two sets, the original and the dual deck or whatever it was. And it really didn't have much of an impact.

Releasing a From the Vault: Goyfs is not going to reduce the price of him. Jace 2.0 being printed, before banning on a pretty wide scale didn't reduce his price. And neither has the bannings. (edit I just looked to be surprised to see Jace at 60 bucks. Which is still too high for a card banned in almost every format)

If the card wins games the price doesn't change imo.

You also make a really good point about stores. My store pre-orders the FTV stuff, but you can never get it cause they always cut the orders in half, and he doesn't pad his prices. Commendable store, but makes it difficult to obtain the cards. And here in Canada it's harder to get cards in general, Wizards limits the amount of cards that exit the United States. They really have an iron fist wrapped around distribution.

Wizards needs to fix distribution and card print numbers before they can really impact the price of a "game winning card". I think the format would be better off banning a card like Goyf before trying to lower its price. I'm of the mind that you could build a perfectly legitimate bant or zoo deck without Goyf if he wasn't in the format at all. (as in all him being in the format does is limit those decks)

Competitive Decks shouldn't cost 1000 dollars.

According to everyone on these forums. You should only play the best decks in whatever format you want. You are a bad player and should just quit if you intend on using anything else.

I don't see how reprinting them will keep the price down. Just for the sake of an example, they printed Stoneforge in two sets, the original and the dual deck or whatever it was. And it really didn't have much of an impact.




What? SFM went from 15+ to under 10 pretty quickly after it was put into the pre-con. The fact that you can go on Ebay/SCG and pick up a pre-con for 20 bucks speaks for itself.

Photobucket
(edit I just looked to be surprised to see Jace at 60 bucks. Which is still too high for a card banned in almost every format)



This should not be a big surprise. The Dealers have to make back the money they traded for them in the first place, and they often paid that price just to acquire the card towards the end. Jace will probably stay at a high price and be considered a staple Planeswalker for Classic for some time, just like the original multicolored lands retain value, even though they pretty much have been replaced all around.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
Man, why are people so afraid to have their cards lose value?  I've been playing Magic since Ice Age and I could care less if WotC decided to print every card in Magic and give them all away for free for their 20th anniversary.  I buy the cards to play the game and not try to be a poor-mans stock trader.  I don't care if the cards I own are worth $0.10 or $1,000.00.  Is something only collectable if it's worth a downpayment on a car?
Man, why are people so afraid to have their cards lose value?  I've been playing Magic since Ice Age and I could care less if WotC decided to print every card in Magic and give them all away for free for their 20th anniversary.  I buy the cards to play the game and not try to be a poor-mans stock trader.  I don't care if the cards I own are worth $0.10 or $1,000.00.  Is something only collectable if it's worth a downpayment on a car?



This is just ignorance. Hobby industries sustain themselves by attaching an investment value to their product. It's the same princible as re-selling used video games or classic art pieces becoming so valuable. It's human nature to retain sentimental value over the objects that represent a time investment, and that translates into monetary value to one degree or another. Believe me, if MtG cards were worthless, you would have a very hard time trying to play magic with anyone.

There is definitely a downside though. Because people know there is a monetary value to these pieces of cardboard, a portion of magic players tend to get irrational regarding objective gameplay, i.e. "I only play mono-black decks" syndrome. It's hardly relegated to mono-black players, but it's the most visible block of magic players that illustrate the issue. This type of thinking leads to those cesspool threads in most of the deck help forums that start out with some kid's collection of bad cards, and deteriorate into the OP starting a flame war over how awesome his original deck is, and how worthless the critiques are.

That was one hell of a digression. Anyways, reprints are necessary for the health of the game, but so is having an "investment factor" on the chase cards. Not just for psychiological reasons, either. I know plenty of magic players that do a lot less playing and a lot more trading, simply because they enjoy the act of commerce.

Photobucket
Man, why are people so afraid to have their cards lose value?  I've been playing Magic since Ice Age and I could care less if WotC decided to print every card in Magic and give them all away for free for their 20th anniversary.  I buy the cards to play the game and not try to be a poor-mans stock trader.  I don't care if the cards I own are worth $0.10 or $1,000.00.  Is something only collectable if it's worth a downpayment on a car?



This is just ignorance. Hobby industries sustain themselves by attaching an investment value to their product. It's the same princible as re-selling used video games or classic art pieces becoming so valuable. It's human nature to retain sentimental value over the objects that represent a time investment, and that translates into monetary value to one degree or another. Believe me, if MtG cards were worthless, you would have a very hard time trying to play magic with anyone.

There is definitely a downside though. Because people know there is a monetary value to these pieces of cardboard, a portion of magic players tend to get irrational regarding objective gameplay, i.e. "I only play mono-black decks" syndrome. It's hardly relegated to mono-black players, but it's the most visible block of magic players that illustrate the issue. This type of thinking leads to those cesspool threads in most of the deck help forums that start out with some kid's collection of bad cards, and deteriorate into the OP starting a flame war over how awesome his original deck is, and how worthless the critiques are.

That was one hell of a digression. Anyways, reprints are necessary for the health of the game, but so is having an "investment factor" on the chase cards. Not just for psychiological reasons, either. I know plenty of magic players that do a lot less playing and a lot more trading, simply because they enjoy the act of commerce.



Investment value?  You mean like paying a fixed amount for a box of random cards and randomly trying to profit from them 1000% through speculation?

At some point WotC will reprint cards that they saying they won't (original duals).  QQ for those that invested 5 grand into them but their investment will not sustain a format with extremely limited resources and ever expending player base.  It's no different than the price of Jace 2.0 being driven to double digets and then him getting completely pulled from all but 1 format.  

If WotC wants Modern (and Legacy by extent) to suceed then they need to do some serious reprints.  $1000+ for a viable deck in either format is not a good way to sustain the playerbase.  I'm sorry if some people have built a business on speculation but it's their own doing.  Game shops can run just fine on MSRP business without needing to hope for a wave of Jaces to keep them sustained.


Investment value?  You mean like paying a fixed amount for a box of random cards and randomly trying to profit from them 1000% through speculation?



You're an idiot if you think card values are "1000% through speculation". Card values are largely determined by demand. Demand can fuel speculative price hikes, but that happens for brand new cards, not reprints, and those price hikes often set the bar for a lot of card values through it's lifespan in standard. But cool story bro, keep throwing around hyperbole like it's going out of style.

Additionally, there is nothing random about box contents if you order enough boxes, which is what most of the large magic retailers do. And that fixed amount, a.k.a. the price of boosters/boxes/cases? That sets the baseline for a lot of singles prices.


If WotC wants Modern (and Legacy by extent) to suceed then they need to do some serious reprints.  $1000+ for a viable deck in either format is not a good way to sustain the playerbase.  I'm sorry if some people have built a business on speculation but it's their own doing.  Game shops can run just fine on MSRP business without needing to hope for a wave of Jaces to keep them sustained.



$1000 for legacy certainly causes some grumbling, but I wonder what StarCity has to say about cost-of-entry for it's legacy open series...

Hobbies cost money. Price points are always going to exclude some portion of the playerbase, and anyone with an inkling of business sense should be OK with that.

Photobucket
This is simply a clashing value of a competitive, accessible game and a collectable game, both of which Magic is, but sometime soon, WotC simply has to make a choice regarding which one is more important, and seeing as their hands were tied by lawsuit (or threats there-of) last time, it certainly seems like they are going to swing for accessibility. The problem Magic is running into is that it has become TOO popular to sustain absolute faith in the Beckett-style market. In America people who played YuGiOh in high school, are picking up Magic instead, many eastern CCGs are going under, many fad TCG/CCGs are following suit and Magic is preserved in such a way that it has ignred the decline of table-top gaming (arguably on the back of Dungeons and Dragons.) This is simply because Magic has always been cheaper and more accessible (as well as much better designed and developed) than other games, just like DnD, and if it comes down to the paying customers versus the collector's market, WotC is going to take the same side it always does (when given a choice)
IMAGE(http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af108/acatan/sigwynzermancopy.png) Signature by IMAGE(http://www.poke-amph.com/heartgoldsoulsilver/sprites/258.png)
Holy crap, would people stop throwing around hyperbole? Of course they are going to do reprints. It's also just as likely that you are going to see such reprints milked in a way that supports new product sales, i.e. reprints to fuel demand for core sets or premium products. WotC is not going to put out a product called "Modern Staples" and pack every shockland/goyf/dragonstorm into it.

Photobucket
Sign In to post comments