Water walking boots + lava = ???

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Ok so i know the character will still take damage, but what happens. Would the boots require a save every round or be destoryed; should the character be able to stave off death long enough to get out?
By the rules... nothing...  however you should do what's fun..

Having a save or be destroyed means the PC migh die from 1 bad roll.  Perhaps make it 3 failed saves...  mabey slow them after the first failed save.  That will give them a few turns, but it will still be risky.

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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

so nothing happens at all to the boots in lava? i mean even the 1 ring was destoryed by lava. its pretty much detroyes anything and everything.
Comprehensive Rules on Lava:

www.lavarules.com/

Pretty much the best guidelines on lava I have seen in 20+ years of gaming.

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By default, magic items are basicly invulnerable.  However, you are free to (and probably should) make exceptions to that.  That's why there's a DM.

Personally I still would give them a few turns on the lava though without instantly destroying it.  Mabey a steady progression...  nomal->slow-> immobilized->destroyed.

Mostly avoid saying something like "you take 2 steps onto the lava and your boots disintigrate and you die".  Then again, some groups might like the hard-core nature of it.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Comprehensive Rules on Lava:

www.lavarules.com/

Pretty much the best guidelines on lava I have seen in 20+ years of gaming.



haha i love this; mostly beacuse it goes into a great amount of detail on who said they agree with these rules.

so nothing happens at all to the boots in lava? i mean even the 1 ring was destoryed by lava. its pretty much detroyes anything and everything.



Have you ever seen a "water walking" dude get his feet wet?  If you can survive the damage from being on top of the lava, your equipment can survive it, too.  Why?  MAGIC.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
yes arguably you can say magic did it; but again refrecing LotR (lets say 80% of fantasy is based off of) then even laval destroys boots

in the game of rock paper sciscors; lava always wins.

in anycase i think i will go with the rules and just let them stand there taking damage. 
Who says the boots are in the lava? Maybe you just float half an inch above them.

But another, maybe more pressing question is: why are they standing on lava? Whatever you rule, make sure the players understand the consequences before they move in the assumption that they're safe from damage and drowning with their boots. 
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
Comprehensive Rules on Lava:

www.lavarules.com/

Pretty much the best guidelines on lava I have seen in 20+ years of gaming.



haha i love this; mostly beacuse it goes into a great amount of detail on who said they agree with these rules.



Those rules are spectacular, detailed, and comprehensive, and were a crucial part of the end of my last D&D campaign.

Don't forget to click the "Download me now!" link to pick up the free 14-page PDF with helpful diagrams, examples of the rule in play, a comprehensive bibliography, and an index.
Don't forget that even if the lava itself doesn't destroy the boots, there will be an immense amount of heat generated (kind of like being dangled over a bonfire), so the character will probably want some fire resistance.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
In the case of lava, I would say "taking damage" would be an understatement. Assuming the boots themselves survived, his feet (and much of the rest of him) would burst into flame. Like a pan in a fire...the pan would be fine...the meat in the pan...not so much.

If you've ever seen a documentary were some scientist studies lava flows, any normal object that gets even close bursts into flames rather quickly. And that is "cool" lava on the surface. 

As far as the durability of magic items, I think its generally accepted that it takes magic to destroy magic. In the case of "the ring", it was more than the lava that destroyed the ring. It had to be that lava...from that mountain, Mount Doom, from which the ring was originally created.
Giving a magic item a bit of time before its destroyed is fine and dandy, 3 rounds of saves could be good but you might not realize that people save more often than they fail a save.  Why not make it "ending round on lava slows you", "ending your next round destroyed the boots and you fall in".
A quick look at wiki gives us "Temperatures of most magmas are in the range 700 °C to 1300 °C", even for a high endurance character that's absurdly hard to walk over.  Even if the boots survive the first round of damage from the lava, the player will probably will not.  Dish out something like 5d10 damage to the player, doubling it for every round if they don't succeed an endurance check or keeping it the same if they pass the check.
*puts on nerd hat

Magma is under the earth. Lava is what one would walk over, though the temperature difference is negligible. ;)

*removes hat 
Here's my hypothetical handling of this issue:

Player:  "I want to run across that lava flow, and I've got Boots of Water Walking on."
Me:  "You sure?"
Player:  "You don't think I should?"
Me:  "Can't say that.'
Player:  "Okay, I do it, and I run really fast so I avoid the heat exposure."
Me:  "Clatchy McGuffin takes a running start from among you and paints a graceful example of gazelle-leaping, followed by a surprised yelping sound for a second as he discovers he doesn't have the support he needed under his leading foot.  The sound cuts off quickly with a *splort* as he faceplants into the flowing river of molten rock.  The last thing you all see, jaws hanging open and with wide eyes, is his backpack, half-submerged and burning merrily as it drifts downstream."
Player:  "Wait!  What?  I had my boots on!"
Me:  "Lava ain't water.  Ten minute break while Jerry here rolls up a new PC."

  T 
Yeah. I did just kill your BBEG with a vorpal frisbee. Problem?
Here's my hypothetical handling of this issue:

Player:  "I want to run across that lava flow, and I've got Boots of Water Walking on."
Me:  "You sure?"
Player:  "You don't think I should?"
Me:  "Can't say that.'
Player:  "Okay, I do it, and I run really fast so I avoid the heat exposure."
Me:  "Clatchy McGuffin takes a running start from among you and paints a graceful example of gazelle-leaping, followed by a surprised yelping sound for a second as he discovers he doesn't have the support he needed under his leading foot.  The sound cuts off quickly with a *splort* as he faceplants into the flowing river of molten rock.  The last thing you all see, jaws hanging open and with wide eyes, is his backpack, half-submerged and burning merrily as it drifts downstream."
Player:  "Wait!  What?  I had my boots on!"
Me:  "Lava ain't water.  Ten minute break while Jerry here rolls up a new PC."



Player:  "But they say any liquid, explicitly not just water!  The rules say they work on lava, my character *knows* they work on any liquid, and you've just arbitrarily declared me dead with a 'gotcha' moment based on you suddenly and without warning changing the rules, which is a sign that you're being a bad DM.  Do we need to get the Bad DM Swatter?"
You:  "Yeah.  You're right."


(All of the "water walking" effects say "any liquid", for the record.  Several of them call out that you're not immune to environmental effects of being near the liquid, such as heat damage if you're running on lava, but hey at least you're not touching it or submerged, right?)
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
I was going to say something it more or less comes down what LordOfWeasels said. That's really a bad way to handle the situation.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
There is something ironic about referencing to RL situations when discussing walking on magma in a fantasy setting while those same characters (given high enough level) could do a lot of other stuff that is impossible for people in RL. A first level PC, even with these boots, will die almost instantly when walking on magma. A fiveteen level PC on the other will survive for a few rounds. What is wrong with that?

As for the one ring, remember that the only place it could be destroyed was Mount Doom. Any other vulcano would not do either. Besides, Lord of the Rings the halflings survive an erruption sitting on a small rock surrounded by completely liquid magma and those eagles manages to get close as well. The power of plot is great indeed ;)

In any event, RAW as written you can walk over lava with these boots. Items will not be destroyed either. I am sure players will not really protest if you as a DM rule otherwise. Just make sure the players are aware of this beforehand, and it is probably also good to make sure walking on that lava is not a requirement for victory. Either that, or you will end up with irritated players ;)
wouldent the toxic fumes from the lava just kill the character before he even set foot on the lava?
wouldent the toxic fumes from the lava just kill the character before he even set foot on the lava?



Possibly!  But what if he's got a nice big Resist Poison to go with his Resist Fire?

Anyone who's seriously considering running across lava also has the chops to hold his breath for the required time.  We're talking high-fantasy heroes, here.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
True, if it follows the same rules as the potion then it's any liquid.  But that also says you stand on it just like on regular ground, that much contact.  As that means between 1200-2200 F, without serious fire resistance:  leather ignites, carbon steel melts around 1500, etc.  

So he takes his third step and *splort*!  Same result, just a little more pain involved. 

And it wasn't a "gotcha" - I asked "You sure?" and probably gave him a very skeptical look.  It was a dumb move, and it got paid for.

  T 
Yeah. I did just kill your BBEG with a vorpal frisbee. Problem?
True, if it follows the same rules as the potion then it's any liquid.  But that also says you stand on it just like on regular ground, that much contact.  As that means between 1200-2200 F, without serious fire resistance:  leather ignites, carbon steel melts around 1500, etc.  

So he takes his third step and *splort*!  Same result, just a little more pain involved. 

And it wasn't a "gotcha" - I asked "You sure?" and probably gave him a very skeptical look.  It was a dumb move, and it got paid for.



Anyone who's thinking of trying it probably also has
A) a nice big Resist Fire
B) the assumption that this will work like all the other environmental hazards in D&D do:  They'll do HP damage, possibly even A LOT of HP damage, and things that mitigate HP damage will work.
C) the assumption that this is Movie Lava, like all the other environmental hazards are, which means that we're probably talking 3d6+some per round damage for being above-but-not-touching.

Jumping it out suddenly as "your Resist Fire doesn't work!" or "It's not just doing normal HP damage!" or "It does 300 damage per round!" are ALSO all things that result in bringing out the Bad DM Swatter, because again you're changing the rules and the assumptions without telling the players.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Also:

And it wasn't a "gotcha" - I asked "You sure?" and probably gave him a very skeptical look.  It was a dumb move, and it got paid for.



He asked if he shouldn't do it, explicitly, as in "does my character know this ought to be suicidal", and you said no.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Hmm...did I use invisible ink when writing "... without serious fire resistance: ..." ?

Never said the resist wouldn't work, or that I'd do 300/round.  If this is a heroic-tier adventurer, he'd better think twice.  Paragon tier probably has the fire resist to pull it off.  Epic very likely does.  

Also, the post above was meant to be partially funny - and partially true, as all good humor is.  If the guy takes a running start without even testing with his toe, he's taking a BIG and unnecessary risk.  If he does test that way, he'll see his boots start smoking as soon as they get close.  

And if he still insists, there's a chance he might make it if he's got decent fire resistance.  

But if he doesn't, *splort*!

I like that sound. 

  T

Edit:  "He asked if he shouldn't do it,"...I didn't say no, I said "can't say that," meaning I'm not at liberty to say.  Why is it, that every time I see you post you're insistent that your way is the only way to speak?  Try to broaden your capacity a little.  FFS, you're going off on a hypothetical, even.  As in not even a real conversation.  Get over yourself ).
Yeah. I did just kill your BBEG with a vorpal frisbee. Problem?
But you are at liberty to say. After all, you are going to decide (arbitrarily, even) that 

1) the character is unaware that he's going to do something suicidal
2) the rest of the party is also totally unaware
3) magic items can break down while performing the very thing they're designed for
4) lava doesn't work like any other hazard in the game

And you're going to expect the player  to know exactly how you are going to apply the rules? Despite the rules being applied in a very arbitrarily different fashion from how they are normally applied?

In a situation like this, saying "unless you have massive resist fire and poison, you will die" is not unreasonable. It's, in fact, pretty much required if you've made such huge changes to the assumptions your players make about how the world works.

It's no more then fair to explain to players how your world works, because that's your job. Especially considering the characters live in it and should have a pretty good idea of how the work works.

No world conforms to reality, and no two players understand a single campaign world in the same way. When you're about to kill someone off (no save), then you should at least explain to that player how you envision the world working before he makes his decision to sac his character. 
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.

Edit:  "He asked if he shouldn't do it,"...I didn't say no, I said "can't say that," meaning I'm not at liberty to say. 



Why aren't you "at liberty to say"?

A player has just asked you if something he's about to do is so mindblowingly stupid that his character should know better.
You've changed the rules to make it so mindblowingly stupid that his character should know better.
Why *can't* you tell the player that his perfectly reasonable assumptions are wrong?
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
I still feel that it would take immunity to fire to walk on lava. holding his breath is not enough, if one were to come into contact with lava fumes, you WILL begin to sufficate and this would start to happen before you were within 30 feet of the lava.

if you have fire immunity and decided you wanted to cross the lava, as soon as you enter within 6 squares of the lava i would treat it as if you were drowning, where each check would gain +5 for each time until it is an impossible check. 

lava is a death trap!!!!!!!! 
I still feel that it would take immunity to fire to walk on lava. holding his breath is not enough, if one were to come into contact with lava fumes, you WILL begin to sufficate and this would start to happen before you were within 30 feet of the lava.

if you have fire immunity and decided you wanted to cross the lava, as soon as you enter within 6 squares of the lava i would treat it as if you were drowning, where each check would gain +5 for each time until it is an impossible check. 

lava is a death trap!!!!!!!! 



As long as you make it clear to the players that this is how it works, cool.

Misses out on some seriously awesome-looking terrain options, though.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
The other problem is the sheer heat of lava means that you would melt without even touching it, let alone slow roasting yourself by standing on it.  Frying pan is right.  You step in, on, or near lava and you die.

EDIT:  Lava is not totally liquid, meaning if you step on the solid part and it breaks you are below the plane of the lava and thus unprotected by your boots.
"When the winds of change blow, some people build shelters while others build windmills." I now have this amazingly persistant mental image of a tiger smoking a cigar. It's awesome. GMT -4

Edit:  "He asked if he shouldn't do it,"...I didn't say no, I said "can't say that," meaning I'm not at liberty to say. 



Why aren't you "at liberty to say"?

A player has just asked you if something he's about to do is so mindblowingly stupid that his character should know better.
You've changed the rules to make it so mindblowingly stupid that his character should know better.
Why *can't* you tell the player that his perfectly reasonable assumptions are wrong?



I'm sorry...if the player doesn't know walking on lava will kill him, then chances are the character is just as dumb since academic study ina  fantasy world is much lower than it is here in our real world.

Who would this player ask in the real world if he didn't know?  The DM isn't just common sense function.  That's what the player is for. 
There is something ironic about referencing to RL situations when discussing walking on magma..walking on magma...surrounded by completely liquid magma...



ITS NOT MAGMA, ITS LAVA!!!

*nerd rage over
I'm sorry...if the player doesn't know walking on lava will kill him, then chances are the character is just as dumb since academic study ina  fantasy world is much lower than it is here in our real world.

Who would this player ask in the real world if he didn't know?  The DM isn't just common sense function.  That's what the player is for.



By this logic, players should run from Ogres, Giants, Dragons, Mind Flayers, and anything else that can kill them. Common sense says that these things will murder the crap out of them.

Yet, they can kill them. This implies that the characters are actually very powerful creatures and that perhaps walking on lava isn't totally unreasonable. Especially if they carry powerful magical items designed to protect them from hazards like that.

What is common sense to the DM is not automatically common sense to the DM. Not everybody intuitively understands that a 15-ton dragon spewing fire over them is just 35 points of damage (20 of which are prevented) but stepping on lava is instant death. And I don't blame them, either. 
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.

The PCs are superheroes in a fantasy setting who do supernatural feats of awesome that mere mortals cannot do. They survive falling from impossible heights. They withstand blows, breaths, bites and magic that would instantly kill mere mortals. All of these things happen in world where the laws of physics reasonably apply. Anytime they are able to resist damage or survive something, there is a Fantasy Rules reason.


One of the consistent things in 4E is fire hurts. Just standing adjacent to fire hurts. It is reasonable to assume that fire zones, breaths, etc are nowhere near the Fahrenheit of lava. If standing next to a fire zone causes survivable damage, PCs should start taking damage from area heat long before they are adjacent to, let alone on lava.


Think about the damage that a red dragon does with its breath. Now imagine that same dragon simply didn’t stop breathing that fire. Lava damage should be significantly greater than that and proximity heat should warn them of this. Strongly. I would probably use escalating damage starting 15 feet away, with increased damage per step closer. Or something like that.

A character simply wouldn’t run into lava and go splat. It's not a matter of intelligence or scientific study. That’s just silly.


For a character to survive walking on lava, you need more than the general PCs are awesome rule. There needs to be immunity to fire or epic level resistance, but probably immunity. And more importantly, a really good story reason for this to be happening.

*puts on nerd hat

Magma is under the earth. Lava is what one would walk over, though the temperature difference is negligible. ;)

*removes hat 



For the record, you could find magma in any underground caves which you are exploring in.  Like in most videogames or what not.  Rarely find it in your way on the surface, its always those darn magma chambers you have to get across.

Edit:  "He asked if he shouldn't do it,"...I didn't say no, I said "can't say that," meaning I'm not at liberty to say.  Why is it, that every time I see you post you're insistent that your way is the only way to speak?  Try to broaden your capacity a little.  FFS, you're going off on a hypothetical, even.  As in not even a real conversation.  Get over yourself ).


Soooooo... Unnecessarily cagey BS and misdirection? I guess that's better than explicitly lying, in a relative sense....

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Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Instead of "Can't say that," you could say basically anything else.

Some suggestions!

"Lava?  Seriously, dude? It's like two thousand degrees.  Your shoes might be okay but you're sure the rest of you won't be."
"Lose two healing surges for even thinking about going near the lava because it is face-meltingly hot." (If standing next to the lava doesn't hurt you, then standing on top of it should not see a significant deadliness jump.  Merely existing in the cave full of lava should honestly probably have killed him if you're ruling this way.)
"That is a bad idea, you will surely die."

If you want to be only mildly cagey:

"Can your character survive 2200 degrees Farenheit?"  My DM typically asks me things like this when I ask how suicidal something is, and it's more fun than a flat Y/N because I get the chance to go "Yep" once in a while and just toss a dice.

Alternate rulings!

"I'm gonna rule that it's not liquidy enough to count as liquid.  If they work on quicksand or something then sure."
"You reckon you can make it if you go real fast.  It'll hurt though"

If you really want them to die:

"Suddenly the ground beneath your feet begins to shake and the cave's ceiling crumbles!  You all die, let's order a pizza."  At least this way doesn't make them feel unnecessarily stupid.
["Lose two healing surges for even thinking about going near the lava because it is face-meltingly hot."]

I rather like that.  

But I'll stand.  If he's stupid enough to charge the blood of a volcano, I'm going to let him, and fry him.  Next time, he'll hopefully make the National Geographic connection.

  T 
Yeah. I did just kill your BBEG with a vorpal frisbee. Problem?
If he's smart, he'll avoid anything that might potentially kill him, because you never know when it has the "Your sense of how the game world works is not equal to mine" power that has the "Effect: your character dies" trait.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
I'd rule that yes, provided its a brief and rapid movement across the lava. Long lasting exposure, more than a Round could lead to instant or Ongoing fire damage...

A quick look at various creatures with the Fire Keyword living in or nearby Lava element reveals that they aren't inherently Immuned to Fire. Also, a quick survery of various Traps and Terrains involving Lava prove they are a lot less lethal than what people imagine real lava of 2000+ F would be. Its a Fantasy game with fantastic heroes and the Rules don't mimic real element with veracity or exactitude.

I'd say go with what is more fun and what the Campaign need. If the heroes are needed to cross a chasm surrounded by lava. Be it. Describe how hot and sulfuric the environement is, almost unbearrable, how difficult breathing is and how one would stand long in this harsh unforgiving environement.....

[sblock]
Magma Runner have Resist 5 Fire. 
Magma Claw have Resist 10 Fire. 
Volcanic Dragon have no Fire Resistance or Immunity. 
Magma Elemental have no Fire Resistance or Immunity.
A Fire Titans are Immune fo Fire. 
Tziphal Xorns are Immune fo Fire.
Lava Gorgons have Resist 20 Fire
Superior Fire Titan have Resist 30 Fire

Also, as for Terrain and Hazards:

Lava Pit                       At-will Terrain
A fiery blob of lava launches itself at a nearby
target.

Minor Action
Requirement: You must be trained in Arcana and must
have seen a creature be attacked with this terrain power.
Check: Arcana check (DC 13) to understand how to control
and attack with the Lava Pit.
Success: You can use this terrain power automatically
until the end of the encounter. Each use counts as a standard action. You must
be within 3 squares of the lava to trigger the attack.
Target: One creature within 3 squares of the lava pit.
Attack: +6 vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d4 fire damage plus ongoing 3 fire damage (save
ends).

Lava Pool                       Level 19 Obstacle
Hazard                            XD 2400 
Lava pours from the ceiling in a cascade of molten fire,
forming a pool in the center of the chamber and flowing out through a hole in
the wall.
Hazard: The heat in the chamber is
debilitating, but the real danger comes from being pushed into the scalding
lava.
TriggerWhen a creature starts its turn in the lava overflow
chamber.
Attack
Free Action     
Target: One creature.
Attack: +23 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 2d6+7 fire damage.
Effect: If a creature enters or starts its turn in a
square within the lava pool, the creature takes 20 fire damage and is knocked
prone.


     

 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter


It is reasonable to assume that fire zones, breaths, etc are nowhere near the Fahrenheit of lava.



I don't know how this is reasonable. Normal fire generally varies between 1000-2700 degrees, with a nice orange colored fire being about 2000-2200 degrees. Lava is generally between 1300-2200.


"god! this is the 21st century, where is my "Choke someone through the internet" button?" - Herrozerro

It is reasonable to assume that fire zones, breaths, etc are nowhere near the Fahrenheit of lava.



I don't know how this is reasonable. Normal fire generally varies between 1000-2700 degrees, with a nice orange colored fire being about 2000-2200 degrees. Lava is generally between 1300-2200.



And dragonbreath is generally "the hottest, nastiest stuff around" in fantasy.  Saying its cooler than the stuff the red dragon keeps in his volcanic lair as decoration seems odd.

(Napalm?  About 2200 F.  And converting everything into Fahrenheit is *weird*, yo.  Celsius makes so much more sense.)

But again, we're talking about people who take being set on fire with a flamethrower as something to worry about in a round or two if the Ongoing doesn't save soon.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.