[ISD] Either Garruk or Liliana has FIVE Abilities + More Details

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MaRo's State of Design 2011

Interesting...

Things we'll encounter in the first set of Innistrad block:

- A card based on a silver-bordered white card
- A token-making sorcery which makes more creature tokens than any previous token-making spell (not counting X spells or spells that make a variable number)
- An enchantment that could let you play all your creatures for free
- A spell that can deal 13 damage to multiple creatures for one mana (and yes, I mean 13 damage multiple times)
- Many—and I'm talking more than a few—cards inspired by famous horror stories
- A card that turns a loss into a win
- A two-mana creature that lets you make a 2/2 creature each turn for two mana
- A card that lets you exchange your life total with something you've never been able to exchange it with before.
- A planeswalker with five loyalty abilities

Discuss.
Aww poo. Beat me by 40 seconds.
Aww poo. Beat me by 40 seconds.


Care to delete your thread, to consolidate all discussion here?
I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.
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I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.



I'm going to preemptively agree with you.  But it can depend on what those abilities are.  And the casting cost of said PW.  If Bolas had 5 abilities, it'd still have that same problem it did when it was in standard:  You're dead before you can play it.  But since Garfield is on the design team, there's a really good chance it's really playable and really broken.
My guesses for the card based on a silver boardered white card:

[C]Staying Power[/C]
[C]Look at Me, I'm R&D[/C]

Staying Power would be cool.  I could see it being moved to green.
I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.



In theory it is a catastrophically bad idea.
But given how bad they screwed the pooch with Jace, the Mind-Sculptor, I'm willing to bet this one is going to be too nice/expensive/crap too completely decimate all that we hold dear.

Hopefully...
Silver-bordered white card:  
    As much as I hope it's Frankie Peanuts or Staying Power, I'm guessing it'll be based on Look at Me, I'm R&D, AWOL, or Erase (not the Urza's Legacy one).

Token-making sorcery: 
    Wow, they're going to beat Conqueror's Pledge?


Enchantment for free creatures:
    Something like Aluren? Or "When ~ EtB, exile a creature card from your hand. Creature spells you play cost the exiled card's mana cost less to cast" or somesuch?

13 damage to multiple creatures:
   Probably involves your life total.   "13 - X damage to any number of target creatures, where X is your life total", or a creature-only Fireball that costs life instead of mana.  Both seem possibly broken in half.  Yay for more "13" cards, though!

Horror-story cards:  Yay!  

Loss -> win:
   So many things they could do here.

2-mana 2/2 2 something 2 2 2 2:
    Imperious Perfect?

5-ability 'walker:
    At least the abilities will probably be short to avoid a Greater Morphling-style layout.

    But bad idea?  Maybe.  Probably.  It seems likely that it'll either have too much utility or abilities that are never used (or will be unplayable for other reasons, e.g. prohibitive mana cost).





TL;DR: Lots of things that sound broken in half, but almost certainly won't be. 

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Maybe you'll get to change life totals with target player's library, which causes milling or anti-milling, or you'll get to change life totals with target player's graveyard, which causes milling or anti-milling or graveyard destruction..
When he said A planeswalker, I don't think he ment Garruk or liliana, I think it's a completly new one.
I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.



In theory it is a catastrophically bad idea.
But given how bad they screwed the pooch with Jace, the Mind-Sculptor, I'm willing to bet this one is going to be too nice/expensive/crap too completely decimate all that we hold dear.

Hopefully...


I don't think they had fully seen the effects of Jace when this guy was in the works. Though on the plus side, this one probably won't be blue, so it should be fine.

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Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
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144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
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117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
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57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
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I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
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56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
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56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
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...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
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+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
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Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
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57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
That card that somehow produces 2/2 creature tokens probably creates weak creature tokens with a unique creature type and then heavily pumps them, maybe 0/0 creature tokens that gain +2/+2 as long as you control its creator..
When he said A planeswalker, I don't think he ment Garruk or liliana, I think it's a completly new one.


Garruk and Liliana are confirmed to be the only Planeswalkers in Innistrad.
When he said A planeswalker, I don't think he ment Garruk or liliana, I think it's a completly new one.


Garruk and Liliana are confirmed to be the only Planeswalkers in Innistrad.



Sorry, must have missed that. Who said so?
Sorry, must have missed that. Who said so?


Mark Rosewater. He confirmed there would only be two Planeswalker cards in Innistrad, and we've already seen the artwork for both Liliana and Garruk, both of which are confirmed for that set.
Sorry, must have missed that. Who said so?


Mark Rosewater. He confirmed there would only be two Planeswalker cards in Innistrad, and we've already seen the artwork for both Liliana and Garruk, both of which are confirmed for that set.


I'd lean twoards Garruk having 5 then. There is a suposed leak of Lili, and she only has three.
I strongly doubt that the five-ability planeswalker will have five independent abilities.  That's just too much to keep track of on one card.  They'll probably be related in "groups" in some sense.
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- A spell that can deal 13 damage to multiple creatures for one mana (and yes, I mean 13 damage multiple times)
probably "socery: sacrifice any number of creatures as additional cost, bla. ~ deals 13 damage to each of that many target creatures."
- Many—and I'm talking more than a few—cards inspired by famous horror stories
- A card that turns a loss into a win
maybe there will be something like "if you would lose the game, you win the game instead or similar. might be too abusable though, but maybe something similar."
- A two-mana creature that lets you make a 2/2 creature each turn for two mana
maybe some 1/1  for 1R that creates a 2/2 haste token every turn, which is sacrificed at the end of turn. yeah, that would be pretty cool actually.
- A card that lets you exchange your life total with something you've never been able to exchange it with before.
gravyard? library?

Discuss.



my new deck: Bears with Weapons
I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.

QFT.

The formatting alone would suck.

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I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.

QFT.

The formatting alone would suck.


They could make it work. Short, simple abilities and small text.
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I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.

QFT.

The formatting alone would suck.


They could make it work. Short, simple abilities and small text.



I think Mark's just kidding about that last bit, about a 5 ability planewalker. If Jace 2.0 (4 abilities) got abused and eventually banned, can you imagine adding a 5th ability to a planewalker? Yeah, I just don't know....
so we get a card based on a silver-bordered white card, and a planeswalker with a text box based on a silver-bordered blue card

edit: I predict it'll be a 4/1 artifact creature whose name starts with Z
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
ok I am speculating the the 5 ability walker will be Liliana and it will cost 4BBB
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Since there are now other people thinking of cards that exchange life totals with libraries / graveyards, what exactly happens when I have 30 life points and that library / graveyard only contains 20 cards? As for libraries, I was thinking of returning up to 10 cards from the graveyard.. As for graveyards, I was thinking of milling up to 10 cards from the library..
I'm thinking exchanging your life total for your maximum hand size, or the power/toughness of a creature.
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exchanging it for a planeswalker's loyalty would be rad
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
Wizards doesn't print such narrow cards that can only target planeswalkers, compare with the many cards that are designed to deal with them, for example Vampire Hexmage + Brutalizer Exarch..
i know but it'd still be patently groovy
192884403 wrote:
firstrike
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
56965458 wrote:
97820278 wrote:
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
This definitely doesn't mean what you think it means.
I was referring to the painting The Treachery of Images.
I know.
By the way, they already designed similar cards for libraries: Psychic Drain can partly enchange "life totals" with it, and there's probably a similar card for graveyards, right?
It may effectively exchange life totals, but it does not actually.  I am pretty sure we will see soemthing that is more direct about it.
You're right, it would require lots of rules text to change life totals with libraries / graveyards, no matter how that works.. However, I don't think there's another possible target than libraries / graveyards, especially not in this block!

5 Abilities sounds bad and like a cash grab. Invincible hymn kind of exchanges life and library.
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Invincible Hymn doesn't exchange anything! It's more simple and evades the problems that I'm thinking of when it comes to changing the library / graveyard according to a number of life points..
The 2 drop is probably something like Words of Wilding.
I don't think they would make a card that swaps your lifetotal with a planeswalker's loyalty. Mainly because it's 10% cool and 90% use Venser's ultimate instantly.

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This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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- A planeswalker with five loyalty abilities



Now this is just silly. 



[<o>]

I don't think it's worth freaking out about, because all signs point to Innistrad being another nerf-block. If a Mythic rare is a full price Modular equivalent, I'm not too scared of what this set will offer (remember, Scars has nowhere near as much force as Zendikar, Shards or even the last 3 coresets, the cards just make up for their lack of utility with flexibility and value over time). This said, I highly doubt that the 5 ability walker will have any real utility OR flexibility, but still be good just because it has so many effects (think of Nissa). Hopefully this set will be another set of cards which are good because of adverse effects as opposed to utility sets (think of Lorwyn and Ravnica)

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My guesses...

13 damage to 13 creatures for one mana...

Scrollstorm -
Sorcery (R)
Scrollstorm deals X damage to X target creatures, where X is the total number of cards all players have in hand.

Token spell...

Equipment Contagion -
Sorcery (R)
Put thirteen 0/0 black germ creature tokens onto the battlefield. For each token, you may attach an equipment to it. (If the equipment is attached to another creature, it is unattached from that creature; control of the equipment does not change)

Loss into a win...

Goblin Hexkiller -
Creature - Goblin Shaman (R)
Each turn, the first time you lose a coin flip, you win that coin flip instead. If win a coin flip this way, sacrifice Goblin Hexkiller.
:T:: Flip a coin. If you win the flip, change the target of target spell or ability that targets a creature you control. If you lose the flip, destroy Goblin Hexkiller.
1/2

Two mana creature that makes 2/2 creatures...

Garruk's Huntmaster -
Creature - Human Hunter (U)
,: Put a 2/2 wolf green creature token onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls a black or blue creature.

Enchantment that could let you play all your creatures for free...

Kith and Kin -
Enchantment (U)
Play with the top card of your library revealed.
As long as the top card of your library is a creature card, creature spells you cast cost X less to cast, where X is the mana cost of the top card of your library.

Life total exchange...

Spark Transference -
Sorcery (M)
Choose a planeswalker you control. Your life total becomes that planeswalker's loyalty, and that planeswalker's loyalty becomes your life total.

Card based on silver border white card...

Decree of Exile -
Enchantment
When Decree of Exile enters the battlefield, name a nonland card. Exile all permanents and all cards in all graveyards with that name.
Whenever a card with the chosen name is revealed, exile it.
Cards with the chosen name can't be played.

1) That's pretty clever, but MaRo's talking about exactly 13 points of damage..

2) That one card would only be played because of its synergy with cards like Soul Warden + Fecundity + Twilight Drover.. Also, why is black stealing + attaching equipment?

3) I'm 100% sure that MaRo's talking about losing the game + winning the game.. 
So clearly they announced Jace 4.0 last night (ie, 'walker with 5 abilities).  It's bound to look even more like Greater Morphling than he already did.



I am going to preemptively say that 5 abilities is probably a bad idea.



I whole-heartedly agree.  As much as I loved Jace, the Mind Sculptor (and I do indeed love him), I think deviating away from having three abilities per 'walker is a bad idea.  I guess I was wrong to think that R&D would be satisfied with Jace, the Mind Sculptor existing as a novelty.


Also, as for the silver-bordered white card, I think that it has to be either Frankie Peanuts or Look at me, I'm the DCI.  Barring a reprint of Barren Glory (which seems highly unlikely), these are the cards most easily ported into black borders.

I imagine there's a card that makes you count the number of cards in your graveyard and has it become that number (not exactly swapping, but close enough to his meaning).

I imagine that there'll be something Platinum Angely, where it states "If you would lose the game, you win the game instead" (which would make things very... interesting these days).
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