New D&D Skirmish Game?

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Is there any info on this at all? Heard that it was announced at Gen Con but having a hard time finding anything on it at all. Is there a name for it? Release date? An idea on how the rules will be presented?

Anyone excited at the prospect of a new Skirmish game? I never played miniatures and I'm hoping I won't have to buy miniatures to play this game but what are people's opinions on D&D Miniatures? I'm hopeful for this new game as I feel the 4e rules would be suited for skirmish still gameplay but i'll have to wait and see how things pan out.
This is what we know so far

 Non-random themed miniature packs of ~12 figures, likely including 1-2 large figures. Sets of common monsters such as goblins, orcs, and drow were mentioned. Some new sculpts in the sets. 

* The miniature theme packs will be supported by a new skirmish game. When the packs release they will become the initial army packs for the skirmish game. This game uses "command cards" you draw on your turn (IE: Diceless!), focus on player skill more than luck. Will integrate a tile placement element where interlocking dungeon tiles are placed to form the play area each game (similar to the tile placement in the original DDM miniatures game). You will be able to play with either the stock armies from the theme sets, or construct your own army from different figures and customize your command deck. I believe they implied the command cards will be packaged with each miniatures theme set to support the skirmish game.

* The new skirmish game will have an open playtest (you do not need to be a DDI member to participate) where you download and print out the command cards, and play using your existing D&D miniatures. This playtest will roll out in the next couple months, current timeline is mid-September.

* This playtest is the first in new process, if big changes will be coming to the D&D game, those changes will be get feedback in open playtest first. 

Quoting from myself, from here  http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28095225/News_from_Gen_Con?post_id=504253103#504253103
Oh thanks, That's an interesting mixture of points, some i'm keen on, some i'm not.

Interesting that it's diceless though it makes sense for the game. Disapointed that it will be built around set armies and specific miniatures though.
Oh thanks, That's an interesting mixture of points, some i'm keen on, some i'm not.

Interesting that it's diceless though it makes sense for the game. Disapointed that it will be built around set armies and specific miniatures though.



This would allow poeople to get more specific miniatures for their campaigns instead of the old system of buy lots of random boxes and then try to trade for the figures you want in your campaign,  If the skirmish armies are the usual suspects instead you can just stock up on the army that you're planning to use as the common bad guy in your campaign.
Oh thanks, That's an interesting mixture of points, some i'm keen on, some i'm not.

Interesting that it's diceless though it makes sense for the game. Disapointed that it will be built around set armies and specific miniatures though.



Since the playtest will be played with our existing minis collections, and I think they will try to capture some of the players from the previous DDM skirmish game market, I think it would be shortsighted for them to not allow earlier minis to be used in the skirmish game. I think the army boxes will come with a limited number of stats for different types of figures, and the older figures will be able to be incorporated into the armies for the new skirmish game.
However, only allowing the new minis to be allowed in the skirmish game would drive more sales of the new boxes, but that would assume that the game is a success, and until I see the rules and try them out myself, I don't think I can make any predictions on that. 
Unless they've figure out how to paint them much cheaper, they are either selling them for $45 plus, or the figures are going to be unpainted.
Sound like a great game, I've been playing a completely made up game similar to this with my 6 and 7 year old, with basic character types that they really love to play...maybe beacuse I let win, hehe.
 





Open Gateways
A Classless, skill based 4E compatible gaming system,
Where 4E means "For Everyone".
As a hater of the randomized miniatures concept, I am very much looking forward to Wizard's sale of these new mini packs.  I plan to buy them all!
I was at the new product session and GenCon when this was announced. Mike Mearls did say that the figures would be prepainted plastic like the old minis.
I would with pleasure shell out $45.00 for each box of preprinted miniatures. That would actually be perfect. Especially if some expensive miniatures going for $20 a peice were included (rage drake, otyugh, Dragonborn, etc). Very stoked about this!
I think that they could do very well with non-randomized larger packs that will provide a value for the casual customer and not for the collector.

The board games show this well.  Provide a play experience rather than an easter egg hunt.  It will attract more one time purchases, and that brings in a much larger and diverse audience.

At least that's one thought on the whole gig.
My Blog, mostly about D&D.
57304548 wrote:
I imagine that Majestic Moose plays a more "A team" type game than most of us. By that I mean he allows his players to make tanks out of a backyard playground set since the players have more "fun" that way.
Actually I much prefer The Losers.
Show
When I and my friends sit down we want a game of heroic fantasy. Rare is the moment when I have cried out in a video game or RPG "that's unrealistic." (Unless there is no jump button. Seriously makes me mad, single handedly ruined the N64 zelda series for me, but that's a digression of a digression.) I mean, we play games with the force in galaxies far, far away, with supernatural horrors, dragons and demi-gods, alternate cosmologies, etc. Reality and it's effects hold little sway to what makes a Heroic fantasy game fun IMO. Just repeat after me: You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are not how much you've spent on WotC products. You are not whatever RPG you play. You are one of tens of thousands of people that spend money on a hobby. You will not always get what you want
I think that they could do very well with non-randomized larger packs that will provide a value for the casual customer and not for the collector.

The board games show this well.  Provide a play experience rather than an easter egg hunt.  It will attract more one time purchases, and that brings in a much larger and diverse audience.

At least that's one thought on the whole gig.

Yeah, and the game seems more likely to have elements of a Living Card Game instead of a Collectable Card Game.

Celebrate our differences.

I would with pleasure shell out $45.00 for each box of preprinted miniatures. That would actually be perfect. Especially if some expensive miniatures going for $20 a peice were included (rage drake, otyugh, Dragonborn, etc). Very stoked about this!




Which is funny because Dragonborn were some of the cheapest miniatures to get (trade for) back in the day.

I don't even care if the first few sets don't include new sculpts.  Just getting my hands on themed armies of some of the older sets would be awsome.  Even if some of those sculpts were from the Harbinger and Dragoneye set when they less detailed than later sets.

The ebay market on these things will take a hit if they do that though, but to be fair the ebay sellers can eat it since I refuse to pay the prices they ask for a single out of print mini.

Goblin set... It would have been useful when I ran Red Hand of Doom a few years ago.

I think that they could do very well with non-randomized larger packs that will provide a value for the casual customer and not for the collector.

The board games show this well.  Provide a play experience rather than an easter egg hunt.  It will attract more one time purchases, and that brings in a much larger and diverse audience.

At least that's one thought on the whole gig.

Yeah, and the game seems more likely to have elements of a Living Card Game instead of a Collectable Card Game.




With all due respect, we're talking about Wizards of the Coast. They're the kings of randomly-sorted games. I'm sure that the minis will be non-random, but the cards themselves will probably be random like the Gamma World cards and the Fortune Cards.  

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

I think that they could do very well with non-randomized larger packs that will provide a value for the casual customer and not for the collector.

The board games show this well.  Provide a play experience rather than an easter egg hunt.  It will attract more one time purchases, and that brings in a much larger and diverse audience.

At least that's one thought on the whole gig.

Yeah, and the game seems more likely to have elements of a Living Card Game instead of a Collectable Card Game.




With all due respect, we're talking about Wizards of the Coast. They're the kings of randomly-sorted games. I'm sure that the minis will be non-random, but the cards themselves will probably be random like the Gamma World cards and the Fortune Cards.  


I have a dream...  of little non-random cards and little random card assortments sitting hand in hand at the table of hobby gaming.

Don't crap on my dreams man.  ;)
My Blog, mostly about D&D.
57304548 wrote:
I imagine that Majestic Moose plays a more "A team" type game than most of us. By that I mean he allows his players to make tanks out of a backyard playground set since the players have more "fun" that way.
Actually I much prefer The Losers.
Show
When I and my friends sit down we want a game of heroic fantasy. Rare is the moment when I have cried out in a video game or RPG "that's unrealistic." (Unless there is no jump button. Seriously makes me mad, single handedly ruined the N64 zelda series for me, but that's a digression of a digression.) I mean, we play games with the force in galaxies far, far away, with supernatural horrors, dragons and demi-gods, alternate cosmologies, etc. Reality and it's effects hold little sway to what makes a Heroic fantasy game fun IMO. Just repeat after me: You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are not how much you've spent on WotC products. You are not whatever RPG you play. You are one of tens of thousands of people that spend money on a hobby. You will not always get what you want
True, but I will only care about the minis being non-random.  I'll be happy when the days are gone that the only way to build an orc army is winning bids on ebay.
I think that they could do very well with non-randomized larger packs that will provide a value for the casual customer and not for the collector.

The board games show this well.  Provide a play experience rather than an easter egg hunt.  It will attract more one time purchases, and that brings in a much larger and diverse audience.

At least that's one thought on the whole gig.

Yeah, and the game seems more likely to have elements of a Living Card Game instead of a Collectable Card Game.




With all due respect, we're talking about Wizards of the Coast. They're the kings of randomly-sorted games. I'm sure that the minis will be non-random, but the cards themselves will probably be random like the Gamma World cards and the Fortune Cards.  


With all due respect, as sure as you may be, you're still speculating.  They've already said that their minis are stepping away from random packaging, so there is nothing to say that the accompanying skirmishes game will not steer away from it as well.  Well, nothing except speculation.

Celebrate our differences.


With all due respect, we're talking about Wizards of the Coast. They're the kings of randomly-sorted games. I'm sure that the minis will be non-random, but the cards themselves will probably be random like the Gamma World cards and the Fortune Cards.  



It seems a bit weird to accept "In the past, WotC used random minis, now they don't" and then say "In the past, WotC used random cards, therefore these cards MUST be random!"
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS. Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)

With all due respect, we're talking about Wizards of the Coast. They're the kings of randomly-sorted games. I'm sure that the minis will be non-random, but the cards themselves will probably be random like the Gamma World cards and the Fortune Cards.  



It seems a bit weird to accept "In the past, WotC used random minis, now they don't" and then say "In the past, WotC used random cards, therefore these cards MUST be random!"



Simple logic. WotC is trying to jumpstart a new line of miniature gaming. The initial offerings will be limited (say 4 or so non-random boxes of miniatures). If Fantasy Flight Games was doing this, then I'd agree that it would be non-random, given their company's attraction to the LCG model. It wouldn't make sense for WotC to make a game with such a small buy-in. WotC doesn't like to operate on such a small scale. WotC has literally made millions on the CCG model. They've already proven that D&D Miniatures players will buy product even if it is randomly sorted amongst many different boosters. 

The reason why we're in a fallow era for DDM is because of the rising price of making minis and the fact completists already have everything, not because the random model doesn't work anymore. I think the whole reason WotC made this minis game to work off of cards is so that they can sell a minis game to fans irregardless of how many minis they have from older sets. The cards are the keys to this game. I'm guessing it won't matter too much what kind of physical minis you have, it will be the cards that truly matter for gameplay. As such, the cards are the moneymakers, and I doubt WotC would avoid using a business practise that has worked well for them in the past.

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

Insert me complaining about how the should have just kept Heroscape around!
I for one love the random minis...though I've only bought a single box myself and got screwed.

I've made a killing on eBay and Auggies (back about 2 years) when you could get a bunch of useful commons for .25 each, or by bulk lots cheap on ebay.

My collection is around 2,000 of them damn guys now, and "think" I'm good for now...Though I dislike Pogs quite a bit as the model for going forward, I understand their usefullnes in certain situations.
 





Open Gateways
A Classless, skill based 4E compatible gaming system,
Where 4E means "For Everyone".
I would with pleasure shell out $45.00 for each box of preprinted miniatures. That would actually be perfect. Especially if some expensive miniatures going for $20 a peice were included (rage drake, otyugh, Dragonborn, etc). Very stoked about this!




Which is funny because Dragonborn were some of the cheapest miniatures to get (trade for) back in the day.



Yeah, no kidding. I bought 8 boxes of against the giants and got a rare Dragonborn miniature in each box. I use the defenders as Dragonborn Soldiers and the Dragonborn myrmidon as Dragonborn Gladiators. Sadly, I needed five of each. It was evil buying them on eBay.

I don't even care if the first few sets don't include new sculpts.  Just getting my hands on themed armies of some of the older sets would be awsome.  Even if some of those sculpts were from the Harbinger and Dragoneye set when they less detailed than later sets.

The ebay market on these things will take a hit if they do that though, but to be fair the ebay sellers can eat it since I refuse to pay the prices they ask for a single out of print mini.

Goblin set... It would have been useful when I ran Red Hand of Doom a few years ago.




I have a few friends who are also looking forward to older sculpts being re-released. They don't have the older minis and hate paying for them. One of my close friends bought miniatures for almost all the monsters in the Monster Manual. He paid $5,000.00 for the collection. He's rich, so he didn't bat an eyelash. He had to get 7 of each miniatures for skirmishers, 5 of brute/soldiers, 2 controller/artillery, 12 minion, etc... That crap adds up.

Peter Lee is god when it comes to minis. Ever since he took over around Dungon Delve he has done an epic job of picking miniatures. Dungeon Delve wasn't truly his picks but Legendary Evils on was. I will always, always, again- always, be thankful towards Peter Lee for picking out miniatures in high volume from the very pages of the Monster Manual. If he had not, there would be a ton of miniatures from the MM we wouldn't have (looking at the foulspawn, Swordwings, Crownwing, Sorrowspawn, Rockfire Dreadnought, Goristro, Huge Balor, Adult Green Dragon, the list of his contribution goes on).

TL:DR- don't care- don't read it.
Insert me complaining about how the should have just kept Heroscape around!


agreed...I did pick up a bunch of this on ebay as well, but it's a good game that I should dig out againg to fill this skirmish hole.
 



Open Gateways
A Classless, skill based 4E compatible gaming system,
Where 4E means "For Everyone".
Insert me complaining about how the should have just kept Heroscape around!



I want too big of a fan on heroscape. I heard a lot of the diehard heroscapers were not too happy about the base size changes that took place throughout the year. But, it did suck that Heroscape was canned.
Simple logic. WotC is trying to jumpstart a new line of miniature gaming. The initial offerings will be limited (say 4 or so non-random boxes of miniatures).

So simple that you have to add more conjured scenarios to your speculation to try to make it seem more logical...?  Guess is guess.  Yours is no more or less logical than any others.
The reason why we're in a fallow era for DDM is because of the rising price of making minis and the fact completists already have everything, not because the random model doesn't work anymore. I think the whole reason WotC made this minis game to work off of cards is so that they can sell a minis game to fans irregardless of how many minis they have from older sets. The cards are the keys to this game. I'm guessing it won't matter too much what kind of physical minis you have, it will be the cards that truly matter for gameplay. As such, the cards are the moneymakers, and I doubt WotC would avoid using a business practise that has worked well for them in the past.

People, particularly D&D DMs and players, have been complaining about random minis since they became an option because of the secondary market that priced the rare minis out of reason.  DMs need a stable, affordable market so they can purchase many copies of minis.  Wizards has answered that plea.  I highly doubt they are going to change the gameplan midway and turn their back on the game tables in this manner, especially since they make no money off the secondary market.  

They make the same money off the minis whether there are random minis in a box or if it's non-random.  They are giving us what we have been requesting.  That is simple logic.

Celebrate our differences.

Insert me complaining about how the should have just kept Heroscape around!



I want too big of a fan on heroscape. I heard a lot of the diehard heroscapers were not too happy about the base size changes that took place throughout the year. But, it did suck that Heroscape was canned.



The base change was only part of it. The entire last year became "D&D themed" so yeah it basically became a D&D skirmish game. It was very annoying. The worst part is the started to ignore the lore and added in a seventh faction out of thin air. I am more then a little peeved.
So we are most likely going to get a remake of Heroscape?  Great........just ummmmm great. More attention to the grid.
They make the same money off the minis whether there are random minis in a box or if it's non-random.  They are giving us what we have been requesting.  That is simple logic.





They're taking requests?

Can I get an umber hulk, a vrock and a freekin gelatinous cube ???
I love the idea of sets.

I was bummed when I heard that they were not going to be making the painted plastic minis anymore.

I had been playing online with Maptools with some friends, but now I'm going back to the table.

It's odd using a mixture of pogs, unpainted plastic, painted plastic, and some old metal minis with missing heads/weapons.  

What I would love to see is sets based on modules. Like an Iron Circle set, a Gardmore Abbey set, or a Kobold Hall set.
I love the idea of sets.

I was bummed when I heard that they were not going to be making the painted plastic minis anymore.

I had been playing online with Maptools with some friends, but now I'm going back to the table.

It's odd using a mixture of pogs, unpainted plastic, painted plastic, and some old metal minis with missing heads/weapons.  

What I would love to see is sets based on modules. Like an Iron Circle set, a Gardmore Abbey set, or a Kobold Hall set.

Deluxe edition modules would be awesome.  Modules + Maps + Minis all in one boxed set.

Celebrate our differences.

I love the idea of sets.

I was bummed when I heard that they were not going to be making the painted plastic minis anymore.

I had been playing online with Maptools with some friends, but now I'm going back to the table.

It's odd using a mixture of pogs, unpainted plastic, painted plastic, and some old metal minis with missing heads/weapons.  

What I would love to see is sets based on modules. Like an Iron Circle set, a Gardmore Abbey set, or a Kobold Hall set.



I agree that it looks messy with pogs, unpainted miniatures, painted miniatures and weirdly based Heroscape miniatures. We stick with either all pogs or all painted miniatures. Pogs are the worst...

I like your idea with matching up the releases with modules.
So simple that you have to add more conjured scenarios to your speculation to try to make it seem more logical...?  Guess is guess.  Yours is no more or less logical than any others.



Educated guess is educated guess.  Wishing is wishing.
 
People, particularly D&D DMs and players, have been complaining about random minis since they became an option because of the secondary market that priced the rare minis out of reason.  DMs need a stable, affordable market so they can purchase many copies of minis.  Wizards has answered that plea.  I highly doubt they are going to change the gameplan midway and turn their back on the game tables in this manner, especially since they make no money off the secondary market.  

They make the same money off the minis whether there are random minis in a box or if it's non-random. They are giving us what we have been requesting.  That is simple logic.




That is pure wish fulfillment. Expect me to bump this thread when we find out I'm right.  

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

I will hold my judgement on this until more official info is available, but my initial concern, being a long-time minis collector, is that I already have more orcs, goblins, skeletons, zombies, gnolls, dragons zombies, and kobolds than I will ever need. I want the more unique monsters, not the common rank and file kind. Not sure how those fit into this model.
That is pure wish fulfillment. Expect me to bump this thread when we find out I'm right.

Yeah, you seem like the kind of person that revels in "I told you so's."
But you are right.  It is wish fulfillment.  Wizards is listening to our wishes and providing what we ask for.

Celebrate our differences.

I will hold my judgement on this until more official info is available, but my initial concern, being a long-time minis collector, is that I already have more orcs, goblins, skeletons, zombies, gnolls, dragons zombies, and kobolds than I will ever need. I want the more unique monsters, not the common rank and file kind. Not sure how those fit into this model.



I agree. I'll still buy the plethora of Orcs, Goblins, etc, but I'd like the unique ones as well. They made it pretty clear that it would be hard to do 'fringe' miniatures under this non-random format.
That is pure wish fulfillment. Expect me to bump this thread when we find out I'm right.

Yeah, you seem like the kind of person that revels in "I told you so's."
But you are right.  It is wish fulfillment.  Wizards is listening to our wishes and providing what we ask for.




I think it's dangerous to sum it all up to 'we demanded non-random, therefore they did it'. I think it's a factor, an important one. Alter-Boy also has a good point too. I think there are many factors. I think the Skirmish game will be key in keeping the line going. But I won't say it's the only key factor.

I loved random boosters. I loved collecting. I also will miss getting unique miniatures 'fringe'.
I think it's dangerous to sum it all up to 'we demanded non-random, therefore they did it'. I think it's a factor, an important one. Alter-Boy also has a good point too. I think there are many factors. I think the Skirmish game will be key in keeping the line going. But I won't say it's the only key factor. I loved random boosters. I loved collecting. I also will miss getting unique miniatures 'fringe'.

My point was that there was "simple logic" to support more than just one theory.

And I get the collector's aspect, but there is an army of DM's that just want to stock their miniature collection.  I would love to use miniatures rather than tokens, but $13.00 for a flesh golem on a secondary market is pretty silly, especially if I desire 2-3.

Celebrate our differences.

I think it's dangerous to sum it all up to 'we demanded non-random, therefore they did it'. I think it's a factor, an important one. Alter-Boy also has a good point too. I think there are many factors. I think the Skirmish game will be key in keeping the line going. But I won't say it's the only key factor. I loved random boosters. I loved collecting. I also will miss getting unique miniatures 'fringe'.

My point was that there was "simple logic" to support more than just one theory.

And I get the collector's aspect, but there is an army of DM's that just want to stock their miniature collection.  I would love to use miniatures rather than tokens, but $13.00 for a flesh golem on a secondary market is pretty silly, especially if I desire 2-3.




Fair enough. What is sad is that the Beserk Flesh Golem runs for $20.00 on EBay. I'm hoping you are correct. I'd like to see prepainted miniatures stick for years from WotC.
I think it's dangerous to sum it all up to 'we demanded non-random, therefore they did it'. I think it's a factor, an important one. Alter-Boy also has a good point too. I think there are many factors. I think the Skirmish game will be key in keeping the line going. But I won't say it's the only key factor. I loved random boosters. I loved collecting. I also will miss getting unique miniatures 'fringe'.

My point was that there was "simple logic" to support more than just one theory.

And I get the collector's aspect, but there is an army of DM's that just want to stock their miniature collection.  I would love to use miniatures rather than tokens, but $13.00 for a flesh golem on a secondary market is pretty silly, especially if I desire 2-3.




Fair enough. What is sad is that the Beserk Flesh Golem runs for $20.00 on EBay. I'm hoping you are correct. I'd like to see prepainted miniatures stick for years from WotC.

Me too.  And don't get me wrong, the tokens are a brilliant idea for a new DM or an old DM getting back into the game.  And the price point is nice on the current minis offerings when trying to stock multiple commons.  But uncommons and rares get very pricey.  I make a decent living, but I'd be broke quick if I tried to stock up on what's currently out there.

Hopefully between Wizards' new run and Paizo's new set, the market will be stocked with affordable minis for everyone.  Paizo's new set doesn't seem as nice to me as Wizards' previous minis runs, but I am sure that there will be plenty there that I can make use of.

How awesome would it be to have a Monster Vault Extreme Edition with minis instead of tokens?  Roughly 300 minis...  $500-600?  Limited printing based upon demand?  I'd shell it out.  

Celebrate our differences.

Can I get an umber hulk, a vrock and a freekin gelatinous cube ???

Here, here and here.