08/10/2011 BoaB: "Lux Redux"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
A Lux Cannon deck with Lux Cannon in the Sideboard. Hmmm... 

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

While not a budget option, Inkmoth Nexus might be strong in the deck. With all the poliferation stuff being able to fall back on poison as an alt win condition seems strong. And having another flying creature to block with should be nice.
A Lux Cannon deck with Lux Cannon in the Sideboard. Hmmm... 




Lux Cannon decks are powerful when you build around it, but even better when you take it out for a Koth.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

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DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

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Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

Nice article, and nice deck.  I like the addition of Kuldotha Phoenix, it gives the deck some more action that was much needed.  I had played with numerous builds with Lux Cannon, but it never really felt like I was abusing it to its full potential.  This deck feels pretty close to that.
...or your opponent with Consecrated Sphinx triggers waiting on the stack could choose to NOT draw cards when the ability resolves.  Seems like the play.

Straight from the Besieged FAQ
* The ability triggers once for each card an opponent draws. You choose whether to draw two cards as each of those abilities resolves

The end is always nigh.
This deck costs 38 tickets by my calculations.  It uses a number of cards that are highly expensive but don't add much to the deck for a budget player, such as Tectonic Edge or Dismember.  I think it's time to rename the column because he obviously isn't building on a budget.
Lux Cannon deck and no Surge Node? Not even a mention?
This deck costs 38 tickets by my calculations.  It uses a number of cards that are highly expensive but don't add much to the deck for a budget player, such as Tectonic Edge or Dismember.  I think it's time to rename the column because he obviously isn't building on a budget.


While I personally agree with you, the problem is that "budget" is a very subjective term. And compared to decks that run 20 Mythics and 16 rare lands, the decks built in this column are budget.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
This deck costs 38 tickets by my calculations.  It uses a number of cards that are highly expensive but don't add much to the deck for a budget player, such as Tectonic Edge or Dismember.  I think it's time to rename the column because he obviously isn't building on a budget.



Ok a few things:

1. If you are going to come here and complain, at least offer something constructive. What should he be using if those are bad?

2. Tectonic edge is perfect for this deck what are you talking about? Dismember is debatable, but if you can afford it it's an amazing creature removal card.

3. If you can't afford 40 bucks for a deck, you might want to look at another hobby. I'm brand new to magic (less than 6 months) and JVL's articles have a been a HUGE help finding competitive decks for reasonable prices.

4. Could be part of 3 but meh. 40 dollars for a deck is very cheap compared to a typical standard deck. Sure you could make a deck for ten bucks, but BoaB is about building decks that are at least somewhat competitive.


I basically registered just for this post. I wanted to say thanks a ton to the author. I'm sick of seeing all kinds of negativity in response to your column, it's incredibly helpful to me as a new player and I felt I should show my appreciation. Keep up the good work


Edit: If you are playing koth or chandra instead of lux cannon, is it even worth it running so much ramp? Curious what you guys think. If koth/chandra are better than lux cannon it might be worth tweaking the deck to be less lux cannon focused, but I'm not sure how you would go about doing that. One of the 4 mana land destruction spells + chandra's "reverberate" might be nice to keep the LD theme going. Anyone wanna help make a more planeswalker focused version? :D

I basically registered just for this post. I wanted to say thanks a ton to the author. I'm sick of seeing all kinds of negativity in response to your column, it's incredibly helpful to me as a new player and I felt I should show my appreciation. Keep up the good work


Can't agree more, I always enjoy reading BoaB and I often try the decks out at an FNM where quite a few competitive players show up.


Edit: If you are playing koth or chandra instead of lux cannon, is it even worth it running so much ramp? Curious what you guys think. If koth/chandra are better than lux cannon it might be worth tweaking the deck to be less lux cannon focused, but I'm not sure how you would go about doing that. One of the 4 mana land destruction spells + chandra's "reverberate" might be nice to keep the LD theme going. Anyone wanna help make a more planeswalker focused version? :D



I'd say you should google a bit on 'Big Red'. I've been a of BigRed decks since Koth was spoiled and I happen to have arranged a set of him as soon as he was printed. A big red deck can currently really go two ways:
Creature based or artifact based. The artifact based decks run 6 or 7 2-mana artifact ramp, Tumble magnets, 2 Wurmcoil engines, mainboard slagstorms, inferno titans and Koth. A nice example of this was played by Richard Galindo to qualify for the French nationals: www.wizards.com/magic/samplehand.asp?x=m... .
Creature based versions often don't run any ramp (or proliferate) at all, but are more focussed on protecting yourself/Koth by efficient creatures and sometimes they can even pose the beatdown (necessary against Valakut). I recently played a PTQ with the following list (note: this certainly is not on a budget anymore). Unfortunately, my shuffling skills appear to be weak, as I've been manascrewed or flooded in 5 out of 6 matches at least once, as well as I have had to mulligan to 5 6 times during the day. I ended up going 2-4.
Here's that list:
3     Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
14     Mountain
4     Scalding Tarn
4     Arid Mesa

1     Burst Lightning
4     Lightning Bolt
3     Basilisk Collar
3     Grim Lavamancer
3     Shrine of Burning Rage
3     Searing Blaze
4     Kargan Dragonlord
4     Ember Hauler
2     Cunning Sparkmage
3     Koth of the Hammer
2     Molten-Tail Masticore
3     Inferno Titan

Sideboard:
1     Shrine of Burning Rage
1     Sword of War and Peace
1     Dragon’s Claw
1     Koth of the Hammer
1     Cunning Sparkmage
2     Pyroclasm
4     Combust
4     Slagstorm
Lux Cannon deck and no Surge Node? Not even a mention?



Voltaic Key is a much better choice and it didn't even make it in.  Granted, when the format rotates, Surge Node might be an option but at the moment it won't help much.

As to the article, it is funny when the article focuses around Lux Cannon but ends with saying that it should be removed from the deck.  That may work for a red deck, but I have had a lot of use out of Lux Cannon in my blue artifact proliferate deck as it can take out any permanent.
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Kuldotha Phoenix seems so powerful in the abstract.  I mean, you really never have to pay full cost for it.  if you can find a way to put it into your graveyard, you can get a 4/4 flying, haste for .  Not too shabby.

I love it and hate that it doesn't see more play.

Now that Smallpox is back ... maybe?  With Zombie Infestation?  Maybe a Riddlesmith thrown in for good measure?  I don't know.  The phoenix just seems so good to sit on the sidelines. 
Proliferate and red spells, yet no Shrine of Burning Rage? Really?
You'll forget you ever read this the minute you look away.
Veslfen's House of Bone-Dry Sarcasm
88318561 wrote:
76783093 wrote:
there is nothing "epic" about a turn one victory. ever. or really any magic game, for that matter.
So this one time, I wanted to play a game of Magic with my friend, but he was in another country and neither of us had Magic Online. I hitchhiked my way to the coast, barely fending off hungry wildlife when I couldn't get a ride, nearly dying of thirst crossing deserts, and posoning myself half to death foraging for food. At one point, I was taken hostage by a group of kidnappers, only managing to escape after a week of careful planning thanks to careful application of a rusty spoon. Once I reached the coast, I had no money to buy a ticket across the ocean, so I built a boat using my own two hands, and spent months sailing across the waves, nearly losing my deck as I swam to the shore of a desert island in a storm after being capsized by an enormous wave. Nearly delusional after so long with no human contact (the notches I cut in the single tree to tell time had long since felled the thing) I was eventually rescued by a passing ship, where I was taken aboard as a crew member. We sailed around the world, seeing many exotic places and having great adventures, before we finally arrived at my friend's country. Once more I stumbled across a desolate landscape, riding on train or car when I could, and going on foot when I could not. Eventually, weary to the bone, seven years after I started my journey, I arrived at my friend's house, clutching my well-worn and weathered deck to my chest. We shuffled up our decks, I won the roll. Gleefully, I laid down my cards. Black Lotus. My friend looked quizzically at me, wondering what I was about to do. After so long, he no longer knew what deck I had brought with me to this game. Flash. A knowing smile appears on my friend's face as the knowledge slowly returns to him. Protean Hulk. My friend extends his hand, knowing the game is over before it even started. And finally, after so many trials, the sweet taste of victory is mine.
56866178 wrote:
108166749 wrote:
So no one else is upset with the stunt Wizards just pulled to drive sales?
Drive sales of what? Non-Jace, non-Mystic cards? I'm pretty sure people already own more than eight Magic cards. If you don't, I feel for you. Maybe you can trade those Stoneforge Mystics, which are still quite valuable, for some.
I've been working with Good Lux ever since JVL first wrote about it in BoaB. I really liked the idea and kept tweaking it.

Here's the current version (admittedly non-budget):







Land (24)


3x Drowned Catacomb
11x Island
10x Swamp


Instant (3)


3x Stoic Rebuttal




Planeswalker (3)


3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas




This works best against control decks, as your long game is usually much better. The Unwinding Clock is killer in multiplayer games. My MTG Online version replaces the Tezzerets with Liliana Vess and Jace Berelen.

 

Lux Cannon deck and no Surge Node? Not even a mention?

Voltaic Key is a much better choice and it didn't even make it in.  Granted, when the format rotates, Surge Node might be an option but at the moment it won't help much.

As to the article, it is funny when the article focuses around Lux Cannon but ends with saying that it should be removed from the deck.  That may work for a red deck, but I have had a lot of use out of Lux Cannon in my blue artifact proliferate deck as it can take out any permanent.

I think it is a shame that he didn't mentioned it, but I believe he didn't really want to continue with the Lux Cannon strategy. Once you know the power of Dismember and co., there is no need to do any Lux Cannon tricks. So the deck ended in a "stupid red deck"... and he really means it when he says that Chandra or Koth HAVE TO replace the Cannon.

To be more specific, it's a Kuldotha Phoenix deck... and just a promotion for that creature against blue-black control. Neither Mana Leak nor Dismember can stop it permanently, so just hope you can prevent your enemy from getting a Grave Titan[/C] into play. And for the promotion of the Phoenix, the [c]Tectonic Edge IS essential... no matter how much it's worth... it IS the most essential card in any deck that tries to win against the typical decks in Standard these days.

Chandra can be REALLY powerful with Proliferate cards, as the copy ability becomes a +0 ability instead. Drawing 4 or dealing 2x3 damage doesn't hurt either. Koth of the Hammer on the other hand supports the red strategy of firing anything up on the board, so both planeswalker make it easy for you to win.

The Lux Cannon strategy is much more unreliable, since you either fight against a Tempered Steel deck that can win by turn 4 or against a control deck and a Mana Leak to take care of the Lux Cannon and prevents you from winning.

BTW 1: I wonder why you haven't blocked the zombie token with your Phoenix during the fight against the first oppnent, since you tapped the Grave Titan. Maybe you've forgot to mention that you attacked with the Phoenix. But what me really surprised was that he casted a Lilliana Vess and used her +ability to force you to discard. Is he nuts or what? And by the way, you've never mentioned what has happened to her on the next turns...

BTW 2: It's a bit funny that the new Chandra's Phoenix works MUCH better with Chandra Ablaze than with Chandra, the Firebrand, since you can discard the Phoenix for her +1 ability and return it the next time Chandra deals damage.
BTW 2: It's a bit funny that the new Chandra's Phoenix works MUCH better with Chandra Ablaze than with Chandra, the Firebrand, since you can discard the Phoenix for her +1 ability and return it the next time Chandra deals damage.



Actually, you get it back right away.  You do things in the order that they're listed, so you pitch the Phoenix, then do the damage.  By the time you're doing the damage, the Phoenix is in the graveyard, and sees a red Planeswalker dealing damage, so it triggers and returns to your hand.
This deck costs 38 tickets by my calculations.  It uses a number of cards that are highly expensive but don't add much to the deck for a budget player, such as Tectonic Edge or Dismember.  I think it's time to rename the column because he obviously isn't building on a budget.



Ok a few things:

1. If you are going to come here and complain, at least offer something constructive. What should he be using if those are bad?

2. Tectonic edge is perfect for this deck what are you talking about? Dismember is debatable, but if you can afford it it's an amazing creature removal card.

3. If you can't afford 40 bucks for a deck, you might want to look at another hobby. I'm brand new to magic (less than 6 months) and JVL's articles have a been a HUGE help finding competitive decks for reasonable prices.

4. Could be part of 3 but meh. 40 dollars for a deck is very cheap compared to a typical standard deck. Sure you could make a deck for ten bucks, but BoaB is about building decks that are at least somewhat competitive.


I basically registered just for this post. I wanted to say thanks a ton to the author. I'm sick of seeing all kinds of negativity in response to your column, it's incredibly helpful to me as a new player and I felt I should show my appreciation. Keep up the good work

THIS.
If you are playing koth or chandra instead of lux cannon, is it even worth it running so much ramp? Curious what you guys think. If koth/chandra are better than lux cannon it might be worth tweaking the deck to be less lux cannon focused, but I'm not sure how you would go about doing that. One of the 4 mana land destruction spells + chandra's "reverberate" might be nice to keep the LD theme going. Anyone wanna help make a more planeswalker focused version? :D

My own take on that, which is admitedly untested for the moment, is a pure burn deck that runs no real creatures, in no small part to combat the very annoying Timely Reinforcements  which is now a highlight of white control decks.

My current list (of course, forget about any notion of budget here) :

"Prolifire"

3 X Koth of the Hammer
2 X Chandra, the Firebrand
4 X Zektar Shrine Expedition
4 X Shrine of Burning Rage
4 X Vault Charge
4 X Tezzeret's Gambit
4 X Burst Lightning
4 X Lightning Bolt
4 X Incinerate
4 X Searing Blaze

4 X Arid Mesa
4 X Scalding Tarn
4 X Tectonic Edge
11 X Mountain

SIDEBOARD

4 X Combust
4 X Tunnel Ignus
4 X Ratchet Bomb
3 X Manic Vandal

The deck generally takes the control role against aggro and the beatdown role against control and ramp. Against Twin Combo, you keep the option to kill Exarch when possible, and aim for the face the rest of the time.

A choice I like a lot in theory (but again, the deck is untested) is Zektar Shrine Expedition : it supplements Shrine of Burning Rage as an other high damage output card, an other 2-drop permanent, and an other card that gets helped by proliferate. Once you reach five mana, the proliferate spells along with fetchlands turn it into a true Ball Lightning  with the full suprise effect. In past decks, even with fetchlands, the Expedition would often be a very bad topdeck, but with proliferate in the mix, getting it from 0 to 3 at any point should prove a lot easier.

As for the side, Ratchet Bomb is there mainly as an emergency measure against problematic permanents such as Leyline of Sanctity, but is also serviceable against some of the more swarmy aggro decks. Proliferating it can sometimes be helpful, which makes for more fun synergy! Tunnel Ignus is my trump card against Valakut. They have to kill it or they lose the race, and it is very likely that they side out any removal they have, seeing no creatures game 1.

If you want the deck to be more swingy, a card i've been toying with in my mind is Quest for Pure Flame. I think it's too unreliable on the long run, but it can certainly lead to very impressive finishes with the Shrines.
Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A


Ok a few things:

1. If you are going to come here and complain, at least offer something constructive. What should he be using if those are bad?

2. Tectonic edge is perfect for this deck what are you talking about? Dismember is debatable, but if you can afford it it's an amazing creature removal card.

3. If you can't afford 40 bucks for a deck, you might want to look at another hobby. I'm brand new to magic (less than 6 months) and JVL's articles have a been a HUGE help finding competitive decks for reasonable prices.

4. Could be part of 3 but meh. 40 dollars for a deck is very cheap compared to a typical standard deck. Sure you could make a deck for ten bucks, but BoaB is about building decks that are at least somewhat competitive.



We obviously have differing opinions on what the column should be.  You think it should have competitive tournament level standard decks, I think it should be fun budget decks.  Given that the column is titled "Building on a Budget" and not "Top Decks" I think I'm in the right here.  I'm going to continue to complain until he renames the column or actually builds on a budget.  I would define budget as 20 tickets or less, a restriction the column used to follow under a different writer.

In response to your comments that I should find a different hobby: I think Magic can be fun for all sorts of players even if they aren't spending $40 per deck.  I have a large variety of decks which I made for $2 or less.  Sure they aren't tournament level but I have a lot of fun playing the game and I wouldn't give it up.

Internaut, you're about three years too late to the party on this one. Building on a Budget under Jacob Van Lunen has always been about constructinc cheap, reasonably competitive decks. That's not going to change to fit your definition. If that's not acceptable to you, i'd suggest you stop reading it because it's not for you.
You'll forget you ever read this the minute you look away.
Veslfen's House of Bone-Dry Sarcasm
88318561 wrote:
76783093 wrote:
there is nothing "epic" about a turn one victory. ever. or really any magic game, for that matter.
So this one time, I wanted to play a game of Magic with my friend, but he was in another country and neither of us had Magic Online. I hitchhiked my way to the coast, barely fending off hungry wildlife when I couldn't get a ride, nearly dying of thirst crossing deserts, and posoning myself half to death foraging for food. At one point, I was taken hostage by a group of kidnappers, only managing to escape after a week of careful planning thanks to careful application of a rusty spoon. Once I reached the coast, I had no money to buy a ticket across the ocean, so I built a boat using my own two hands, and spent months sailing across the waves, nearly losing my deck as I swam to the shore of a desert island in a storm after being capsized by an enormous wave. Nearly delusional after so long with no human contact (the notches I cut in the single tree to tell time had long since felled the thing) I was eventually rescued by a passing ship, where I was taken aboard as a crew member. We sailed around the world, seeing many exotic places and having great adventures, before we finally arrived at my friend's country. Once more I stumbled across a desolate landscape, riding on train or car when I could, and going on foot when I could not. Eventually, weary to the bone, seven years after I started my journey, I arrived at my friend's house, clutching my well-worn and weathered deck to my chest. We shuffled up our decks, I won the roll. Gleefully, I laid down my cards. Black Lotus. My friend looked quizzically at me, wondering what I was about to do. After so long, he no longer knew what deck I had brought with me to this game. Flash. A knowing smile appears on my friend's face as the knowledge slowly returns to him. Protean Hulk. My friend extends his hand, knowing the game is over before it even started. And finally, after so many trials, the sweet taste of victory is mine.
56866178 wrote:
108166749 wrote:
So no one else is upset with the stunt Wizards just pulled to drive sales?
Drive sales of what? Non-Jace, non-Mystic cards? I'm pretty sure people already own more than eight Magic cards. If you don't, I feel for you. Maybe you can trade those Stoneforge Mystics, which are still quite valuable, for some.
Internaut, you're about three years too late to the party on this one. Building on a Budget under Jacob Van Lunen has always been about constructinc cheap, reasonably competitive decks. That's not going to change to fit your definition. If that's not acceptable to you, i'd suggest you stop reading it because it's not for you.
You'll forget you ever read this the minute you look away.
Veslfen's House of Bone-Dry Sarcasm
88318561 wrote:
76783093 wrote:
there is nothing "epic" about a turn one victory. ever. or really any magic game, for that matter.
So this one time, I wanted to play a game of Magic with my friend, but he was in another country and neither of us had Magic Online. I hitchhiked my way to the coast, barely fending off hungry wildlife when I couldn't get a ride, nearly dying of thirst crossing deserts, and posoning myself half to death foraging for food. At one point, I was taken hostage by a group of kidnappers, only managing to escape after a week of careful planning thanks to careful application of a rusty spoon. Once I reached the coast, I had no money to buy a ticket across the ocean, so I built a boat using my own two hands, and spent months sailing across the waves, nearly losing my deck as I swam to the shore of a desert island in a storm after being capsized by an enormous wave. Nearly delusional after so long with no human contact (the notches I cut in the single tree to tell time had long since felled the thing) I was eventually rescued by a passing ship, where I was taken aboard as a crew member. We sailed around the world, seeing many exotic places and having great adventures, before we finally arrived at my friend's country. Once more I stumbled across a desolate landscape, riding on train or car when I could, and going on foot when I could not. Eventually, weary to the bone, seven years after I started my journey, I arrived at my friend's house, clutching my well-worn and weathered deck to my chest. We shuffled up our decks, I won the roll. Gleefully, I laid down my cards. Black Lotus. My friend looked quizzically at me, wondering what I was about to do. After so long, he no longer knew what deck I had brought with me to this game. Flash. A knowing smile appears on my friend's face as the knowledge slowly returns to him. Protean Hulk. My friend extends his hand, knowing the game is over before it even started. And finally, after so many trials, the sweet taste of victory is mine.
56866178 wrote:
108166749 wrote:
So no one else is upset with the stunt Wizards just pulled to drive sales?
Drive sales of what? Non-Jace, non-Mystic cards? I'm pretty sure people already own more than eight Magic cards. If you don't, I feel for you. Maybe you can trade those Stoneforge Mystics, which are still quite valuable, for some.
BTW 2: It's a bit funny that the new Chandra's Phoenix works MUCH better with Chandra Ablaze than with Chandra, the Firebrand, since you can discard the Phoenix for her +1 ability and return it the next time Chandra deals damage.

Actually, you get it back right away.  You do things in the order that they're listed, so you pitch the Phoenix, then do the damage.  By the time you're doing the damage, the Phoenix is in the graveyard, and sees a red Planeswalker dealing damage, so it triggers and returns to your hand.

I thought since this isn't a cost, but an ability, the card would enter the graveyard after the complete resolution of all the parts of the ability. Noone gets priority in between and no trigger is added on the stack in betweeen. And after that, it's too late to trigger... But I might be wrong.

Maybe I should check this.

stuff



We obviously have differing opinions on what the column should be.  You think it should have competitive tournament level standard decks, I think it should be fun budget decks.  Given that the column is titled "Building on a Budget" and not "Top Decks" I think I'm in the right here.  I'm going to continue to complain until he renames the column or actually builds on a budget.  I would define budget as 20 tickets or less, a restriction the column used to follow under a different writer.

In response to your comments that I should find a different hobby: I think Magic can be fun for all sorts of players even if they aren't spending $40 per deck.  I have a large variety of decks which I made for $2 or less.  Sure they aren't tournament level but I have a lot of fun playing the game and I wouldn't give it up.




-You didn't answer any of my questions.
-You still aren't saying anything constructive.
-Now you're just being a wiseass. Clearly you are not the target of the comumn, why would you come here just to complain? I understand complaining once, to make your opinion known. But coming back when you don't even like the articles just to whine is ridiculous.
-If you'd actually compare this column to top decks, it IS building on a budget. The name is fine.
-It's been explained before, the new writer likes more expensive, more competitive decks. I think this is a good thing. If you want a 20 dollar deck buy a premade deck.
-You are right about being able to enjoy magic with minimal investment. I admit it :P
-Sorry about the numbers/bullet points, I'm tired and can't be assed to write properly.
I would define budget as 20 tickets or less, a restriction the column used to follow under a different writer.



Actually, it used to be 30 tix or less, with the understanding that you add in any good dual-lands you may have acquired.  Plus the column typically included an "adding money" section that let you upgrade the deck if you had a bigger budget than his 30 tix cap.
I would define budget as 20 tickets or less, a restriction the column used to follow under a different writer.



Actually, it used to be 30 tix or less, with the understanding that you add in any good dual-lands you may have acquired.  Plus the column typically included an "adding money" section that let you upgrade the deck if you had a bigger budget than his 30 tix cap.


Amusing anecdote:
Even when the column stuck to a 30tix budget there were still complaints about not building on a budget. I remember a certain week where the author built a genuine Dragonstorm deck, which in tix came squeaking in just under the budget but in dollars was $60 or $100 or something ridiculous.

The moral of this story is: You can't please everyone.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/c6f9e416e5e0e1f0a1e5c42b0c7b3e88.jpg?v=90000)
608.2e Some spells and abilities have multiple steps or actions, denoted by separate sentences or clauses, that involve multiple players. In these cases, the choices for the first action are made in APNAP order, and then the first action is processed simultaneously. Then the choices for the
second action are made in APNAP order, and then that action is processed simultaneously, and
so on. See rule 101.4.

That's the only part I've found. So it seems that you're right.

I thought there was something about when cards change zones, but I didn't found anything useful. So in this way, it seems to be important, if there are more then one sentence or not. Sounds a bit strage though, that an illegal target counters all the parts, but a trigger can happen in between... Strange!!!
The "adding money" section seems like a good idea, I'd be down for one of those every week. He did say to use koth or chandra instead of the lux cannon at least Tongue out
I certainly wouldn't mind Economy and Power builds of the same deck for each column.
608.2e Some spells and abilities have multiple steps or actions, denoted by separate sentences or clauses, that involve multiple players. In these cases, the choices for the first action are made in APNAP order, and then the first action is processed simultaneously. Then the choices for the
second action are made in APNAP order, and then that action is processed simultaneously, and
so on. See rule 101.4.

That's the only part I've found. So it seems that you're right.

I thought there was something about when cards change zones, but I didn't found anything useful. So in this way, it seems to be important, if there are more then one sentence or not. Sounds a bit strage though, that an illegal target counters all the parts, but a trigger can happen in between... Strange!!!

The rule you quoted doesn't fit because we're not talking about multiple players taking actions during the resolution of a spell or ability. What would be better here is the rule that says the instructions of a spell or ability are processed on the order written :

608. Resolving Spells and Abilities
608.2c The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. [...]

And to a lesser extent, the rules that imply triggered abilities may trigger at any time, even in the middle of a spell or ability resolving, even though the ability doesn't go on the stack until a player would receive priority.

603. Handling Triggered Abilities
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
603.2a Because they aren’t cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isn’t legal
to cast spells and activate abilities. Effects that prevent abilities from being activated don’t affect them.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the
next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

Because the instructions of Chandra's ability are taken in the order written, the Phoenix is discarded before damage is dealt. Because it's in the graveyard as damage is dealt, its ability triggers. As simple as that.
Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
BoaB under Jacob's care has been one of the most consistently enjoyable columns, one I eagerly await each week.

I do think the reaction of the budget criticisms are a little strong though. Its a fair comment, and it doesn't mean the column isn't very enjoyable. I don't know what BoaB's criteria is for budget, but I have noticed that the cost seems to be drifting upwards. More than anything, I am a fan of limitations where they unearth cards that don't normally see play. That's always been one of the draws of, say, EDH. Yes, we all know that dismember is great, but if you are restricted on cost, what's the 'next best'. That kind of thinking.

I don't think JvL is doing anyone a disservice with his current criteria, but it would be great if he set out his stall a bit in terms of the budget (building on a budget could, after all, mean any budget) and seeing his hand forced to choose a cheaper card might reveal some interesting choices. As many have pointed out, you then can get the 'power up' section at the end. Also, let's remember that tix are all well and good but don't the majority still acquire paper cards? These are obviously a little more expensive.

So, keep up the great column Jacob but let's also understand that this is, I think it is fair to say, building with limitations. If that means excluding only the uppermost bonkers cards then the decks are going to look a little bit like decks we already know about. You seem to be particularly creative so I don't think taking the limit down a smidge will inhibit your column much.

Thanks and keep up the great work.
I thought since this isn't a cost, but an ability, the card would enter the graveyard after the complete resolution of all the parts of the ability. Noone gets priority in between and no trigger is added on the stack in betweeen. And after that, it's too late to trigger... But I might be wrong.

Maybe I should check this.




Actually, you're partially correct here.  Nobody gets priority during the resoution of Chandra's ability, and no triggers are added to the stack during it either.  But just because they're not added to the stack right away doesn't mean they didn't trigger; you just have to wait until after the ability is finished resolving to add them to the stack.

Really, people like to think the rules of Magic are very overcomplicated, but more often then not if something looks like it works, it works.  You're dealing damage with a red Planeswalker, and when you do it the Phoenix is in the graveyard.  Therefore, the Phoenix sees the damage being dealt and triggers, returning to your hand barring any other effects that happen afterwards.
This deck costs 38 tickets by my calculations.  It uses a number of cards that are highly expensive but don't add much to the deck for a budget player, such as Tectonic Edge or Dismember.  I think it's time to rename the column because he obviously isn't building on a budget.



Ok a few things:

1. If you are going to come here and complain, at least offer something constructive. What should he be using if those are bad?

2. Tectonic edge is perfect for this deck what are you talking about? Dismember is debatable, but if you can afford it it's an amazing creature removal card.

3. If you can't afford 40 bucks for a deck, you might want to look at another hobby. I'm brand new to magic (less than 6 months) and JVL's articles have a been a HUGE help finding competitive decks for reasonable prices.

4. Could be part of 3 but meh. 40 dollars for a deck is very cheap compared to a typical standard deck. Sure you could make a deck for ten bucks, but BoaB is about building decks that are at least somewhat competitive.


I basically registered just for this post. I wanted to say thanks a ton to the author. I'm sick of seeing all kinds of negativity in response to your column, it's incredibly helpful to me as a new player and I felt I should show my appreciation. Keep up the good work


Edit: If you are playing koth or chandra instead of lux cannon, is it even worth it running so much ramp? Curious what you guys think. If koth/chandra are better than lux cannon it might be worth tweaking the deck to be less lux cannon focused, but I'm not sure how you would go about doing that. One of the 4 mana land destruction spells + chandra's "reverberate" might be nice to keep the LD theme going. Anyone wanna help make a more planeswalker focused version? :D





1) He is offering something constructive. He is stating that he wishes the column to return to a traditional classification of budget. That typical classification has been in the 20-30 ticket range.

2) Both cards are dependent on your local game. In his local game, they could be wasted spaces.

3) Some people do not wish to waste $40 a week on a deck, especially one that is subpar. I don't know about you, but Magic is not worth over $2,000 a year.

4) Most people at the local games don't spend $40 for their decks. Often, they will trade to get the cards they need. A few will shell out a lot, but most try to spend as few bucks as possible.

As for the column, it was a wel written article, though the deck didn't impress me. I would've liked one more match up, though.

My biggest complaint with this article is that the card the deck was based around, Lux Cannon was basically deemed replaceable by the end of the article.

BoaB is my favorite article, especially when it isn't on its Standard kick. It is a great place to come up with ideas for decks. Two of my three favorite decks have come from ideas I first read about here.

I have noticed the price of the decks slowly going up (with the occassional budget dropped in between). I've also noticed  how his decks have seemed to be looking a little cheap. As much as I like revisits, there should be a lot more involved in a revisit BECAUSE it is a revist. Besides that, some cards keep getting tossed into the decks, for good or ill. They are popular are work well in Standard and the author doesn't seem to take the time to look for something else.


Even if the tix stays at the 35-45 mark, I'd like to see him veer off of Standard. Unless he is going with a true rogue deck, there is already enough coverage of standard that he can look a few sets further back.

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

What do you mean a true rogue deck? This isnt cawblade or valakut or any of the other "popular" decks, you can only go so rogue in standard before your deck is garbage.

If this column switched to legacy decks it would be useless to me unfortunately, so obviously I'd like it to stay focused on standard Tongue out .

Also, lol at the 40 dollars a week. People actually buy the deck in the article, every week? Seems a bit much. Even if you did spend 2 grand a year, you realize you can sell the cards when you don't want them anymore right?

Can't say I care about what people spend on decks at fnm and local stuff, I only play online. People online like to whomp my ass with 200 dollar decks, even in the casual room. I like these articles cause the decks are cheap (to me at least, obviously a matter of opinion) and still competitive.

I don't mind lux cannon being replacable. He's just being honest. Would you rather drop koth on turn 3 or a lux cannon? Chandra works really well too, I was trying it out. Her -2 with tezzeret's gambit or volt charge is insanity with all the other artifacts you charge. If you are playing casual magic stick with the lux cannon, personally I appreciate advice on how to make the deck more competitive Smile.
Removing Lux Cannon is a total lost of edges against any deck with planeswalker, which is basically about all decks now a days.
any planes walker getting in will need you to have that burn spell which is needed against pretty much every deck that needs to get off creatures... playing a deck like this myself, been a fan since the bginning... i figured lux cannons are worth it as long as you can pop them the next turn they come into play. your build is fine, but it is missing key elements that makes the lux cannons very deadly. here the key elements...

Surge Node : This is a beast in this deck, it can literrally pump anything in this deck and make sure nothing gets out of juice. of course it can run low, but with proliferate it just doubles the speed of the deck. imagine playing a land, a chalice and a node on turn one. yes the chalice has 0 counter, but on next turn it will cost you only 1 mana to get back 1 mana, making you able to play something else on turn 2, like another accels or something... enabling you to put your koth of th ehammer on the table turn 3. or even put lux and adding a counter with node. the node is just too perfect for this deck, it needs to run in it.

Voltaic Key : Another must, it goes well with pretty much everything you have in there, it makes 2 charged chalice gives you 3 mana. what can you ask more. it charhes lux cannon by tapping it, then untap and use to destroy or charge again. too fearfull to not use them. and it goes well with contagion clasp as more proliferate each turn is good.

Shrine of burning rage : that card demands to be played in this deck. how can you not even think about that one in a mono red deck ? vulnerable you say ? well better get your shrine destroyed then your lux cannons. seriously this deck demands playing this card in it. even more if you go the mono red version of it. proliferate + red spell + 1 charge every turn = 2 digit hit in just a few turns. this is a real destroyer here. not to mention destroy artifact have pretty much all been switched to the sideboard.

heres the version of the deck i am playing...

Creatures (0)

Lands (20)
2x buried Ruins
2x mystifying maze
4x tectonic edges
12x mountains

Spells (40)
3x contagion clasp (must against temp. steel and other fast deck)
2x contagion engine (must against aggro decks)
3x surge node
3x voltaic key
3x lux cannon
4x Everflowing challice
3x Sphere of the suns
4x shrine of burning rage
3x koth of the hammer
4x volt charge
4x tezzeret gambit
4x lightning bolt


Many people would tell me that playing only 20 lands in this deck is suicidal, but my luck factor always tell me to play 20 or 21 lands never more... but if you want you can push more in yours. Engines aren't rally fast, but what people forget most often then not is that -1/-1 counters stay, so you still push a big attack down and each turn it gets even more down.

cards that aren't in it...

Tumble Magnet : i have them in sideboard against titans mostly. but having them main deck is worth it too. i'd remove engine for them.

contagion clasp : i have the 4th one in side, getting in against temp. steel and other fast deck, kiling their turn 1 is good with this deck.

Buried Ruin : this one deserves a spt, it is great against those who just kill the cannons or the shrine. it brings them back and its awesoem synergy right there. so i have to put in 2 more in my sideboard against the artifact removal post-sideboard.

Ratchet Bomb : a must against a few decks... backed up with surge and key, it can pump right off to kill a titan !


thats about everything i am thinking about right now... of course dismember also should have a place in sideboard.
so what do you think of my version ?


PS : Want to win competition online with BOAB 30 tix or less decks ? simple build tempered steel, it will cost you about 30 tix. the only thing you wont have are the moxes. but the deck can run without them.
For a red deck playing so many artifacts, would it be better to run [C]Galvanic Blast[/C] over [C]Lightning Bolt[/C]?
For a red deck playing so many artifacts, would it be better to run [C]Galvanic Blast[/C] over [C]Lightning Bolt[/C]?


*facepalm*

I hadnt thought of that. Need to change my deck!

Cheers!

~ Tim

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I'm loving the idea of this deck. I was playing a custom version of GW Eldrazi and did pretty good at the Nationals here in Dominican Republic. The thing is that with the upcoming rotation I'll obviously have no deck and my team is starting to work on ideas for this new season of MTG.

Your suggestion of adding up Koth was pretty accurate since it's another winning condition by itself. I wouldn't play the deck with all 4 lux though. I rather have 3 and scratch a couple cards off to make up space for the Big Red.

But overall is a very competing deck. Thanks!

Best regards.