New WotC Minis Line Confirmed at Gen Con

WotC is releasing a new line of NONRANDOM miniatures.  These minis will apparently be useful for RPG, and for a new strategy game using cards, rather than dice, to play.  The news is a bit disjointed right now, but the line appears to feature sets of miniatures (seemingly by race - a set of orcs, a set of goblins, etc...) and cards - perhaps collectible cards - that tell you what you can do with your forces.

I'm picturing something between the DDM and Summoner Wars for those of you with experience with both games...

What I think we'll be seeing as a result: More maps, new figure sculpts, and new figure options for the old skirmish game in the hands of the DDM guild. 

Anyone have any more specific news to share?     
D&D & Boardgames If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
Sounds cool. Wish I could have been at Gen Con.
I Am A: Neutral Good Human Druid (5th Level)

Ability Scores:
Strength-16
Dexterity-13
Constitution-17
Intelligence-15
Wisdom-16
Charisma-14

Alignment:
Neutral Good A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them. Neutral good is the best alignment you can be because it means doing what is good without bias for or against order. However, neutral good can be a dangerous alignment when it advances mediocrity by limiting the actions of the truly capable.

Race:
Humans are the most adaptable of the common races. Short generations and a penchant for migration and conquest have made them physically diverse as well. Humans are often unorthodox in their dress, sporting unusual hairstyles, fanciful clothes, tattoos, and the like.

Class:
Druids gain power not by ruling nature but by being at one with it. They hate the unnatural, including aberrations or undead, and destroy them where possible. Druids receive divine spells from nature, not the gods, and can gain an array of powers as they gain experience, including the ability to take the shapes of animals. The weapons and armor of a druid are restricted by their traditional oaths, not simply training. A druid's Wisdom score should be high, as this determines the maximum spell level that they can cast.

Find out What Kind of Dungeons and Dragons Character Would You Be?, courtesy of Easydamus (e-mail)

Just in case anyone can't find the information released:

onlinedm.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/gencon...

11:50: Miniatures. They started in 2003. Interest eventually faded. 9 months ago they decided to stop doing what they were doing. RPGers don’t like randomized miniatures. A random model makes it cheaper per miniatures – some kobolds, goblins, spider… early on people bought a bunch of random stuff. But later, when you already have a lot of stuff, you don’t want to pay to get more stuff that you already have to get a little of what you don’t have.


11:51: Next year they’re going to release non-collectible miniatures in themes (drow, goblins) in sets of 12, including some large. Also a miniatures game on top of this. A board game using these war bands of miniatures. Helps retailers who don’t want to get stuck with the “out” stuff this month.


11:52: Rodney re: the game. The big difference with this new game is that it’s a diceless game. It’s a tactical game where skill is really important. Action cards are the commands you give your units that drive them around the battlefield. Luck comes from cards, but you make more informed decisions after you draw them. Focused on more skill than luck. Made tile placement at the start of the game an important part of the decision-making. Each set comes with miniatures and creature cards for the set, but also some command cards. Sounds like there’s a CCG aspect to it with these command cards.


11:54: Rodney. There will be a public, open play test well in advance, starting in the next couple of months. You can print out the cards online, use your own minis, playtest, and provide feedback. They want us to help them make it a better game.


11:55: The open playtest is a new thing for them. If they’re going to do a big, new thing, they’re going to get our input.


11:56: Playtest is not DDI-only. Information will hopefully be in mid-September on web site. There’s some testing under NDA here at the con. Tiles are 8 by 8, can be used with D&D.


11:57: Will minis be limited edition? Goblins, for instance, should always be available in some form.


11:58: Maybe include stat-block cards D&D style? Don’t want to drive up the cost too much with stuff that’s not miniatures.


11:58: New sculpts? Packs for PC races that haven’t been released yet? Some new sculpts, yes. Going to be hard to do this for fringe stuff.



 
A react of WotC to the Wizkids/Paizo announcement were obvious !!!

Many, many talks from GenCon on Facebook & Forums this Week End...

Now we're waiting "official Talks" from Tried & the Guilders !!!

Good News, bad news ???

Wait & See ;
Good News, bad news ?



Well, as far as I'm concerned, it's great news! I wish I knew more, but I only know what everyone else knows. I can't wait to see what WotC comes up with. New version of the game, new plastic? Sign me up!
Has anyone seen an explicit statement that these new minis will be painted? The minis in the WotC board games, as you all know, have not been painted. The collector's sets, e.g., the beholder and upcoming chromatic dragon sets, have been painted. This new line shares aspects of both of those lines, so I'm not sure whether we can expect painted minis. I certainly HOPE so, but haven't seen an explicit statement either way.

I'm glad to hear this.  Although tokens are ok, its a much better D&D gaming experience when you can pull out a mini that is exactly what the players are fighting.

Has anyone seen an explicit statement that these new minis will be painted?

Not explicitly, no.
The minis in the WotC board games, as you all know, have not been painted. The collector's sets, e.g., the beholder and upcoming chromatic dragon sets, have been painted. This new line shares aspects of both of those lines, so I'm not sure whether we can expect painted minis. I certainly HOPE so, but haven't seen an explicit statement either way.

I hope so too. Although if the game is fun enough, I won't really care, I suspect.

Dave

Painted.

I'm not sure how the Guild will react to this, though I imagine the concept is to move to what is currently being supported by WoTC.  That being the case, will there be a continuing need for the guild? 

Thoughts?
Is it WotC interest that the new figs are compatible with several games ???
Rpg , DDMGuild Skirmish and the new one.

More games = more players = more money !!!
I'm not sure how the Guild will react to this, though I imagine the concept is to move to what is currently being supported by WoTC.  That being the case, will there be a continuing need for the guild?

The Guild is currently the ICU keeping the skirmish game alive. I suppose it would be wise for Wizards to curry the favor of the Guild since the Guild knows more about the current players than any other organization. And, if there is an anticipation on Wizards' part that the existing players will transfer their loyalties to Wizards, it would be clever of Wizards to make certain that those existing players are happy (and, since most of those existing players are very happy with the Guild, it would make sense for Wizards to try to do something to keep the Guild's involvement in the game).

That said, there is always the possibility that Wizards will burn bridges rather than mend fences, and, if the gap between Paizo and Wizards were to remain, and Paizo were to wish to turn their new minis line into a full-fledged skirmish game, Paizo might try to usurp Wizards by currying the favor of the Guild first.

I really cannot predict how this will all play out. But, it seems that the Guild ought to be involved one way or the other. Though what it's role should be, I cannot, at present, predict.

Dave
Interesting thoughts, Dave.

I'm not certain Paizo is familiar with the work that the Guild is doing, although I thought I saw Jason Buhlman stop by the desk @ GenCon.

I suppose the answer to "What does the Guild do now?" will have to wait until Wizards either pulls the license (as is their right, per the agreement), or allows us to retain it.  If we can retain it, we can make new stats for new figures that are released for their new game and fold those into our already huge metagame.
I would like to keep the ddm guild under the managment of DDM, also wizards should considerate the fact that can have both players the new ones and the old ones, also the players could like both games and it will be a profit for them.

the future now is certainly unknown but if WotC and the DDM GUILD work together could support both games in a good way
Painted.

I'm not sure how the Guild will react to this, though I imagine the concept is to move to what is currently being supported by WoTC.  That being the case, will there be a continuing need for the guild? 

Thoughts?




I genuinely hope the Guild is allowed to continue to support the DDM Skirmish game, both OE and RE. The Guild leads (those governing, producing for and play testing for) are doing a great job. I love the recent items cards, Beholder set and Blue Dagon scenario, as well as the half-maps and recent rules updates. In game-playing and hobbying terms, it would be more than a shame if for some reason the Guild stopped supporting the two current skirmish games.

Could the skirmish game survive without the licience? Or unofficially like Heroscape/Heroscapers?

As for the newly announced miniatures game from WotC, I have not made up my mind about this one. It all depends one what it is like. No interest from a collecting point of view or for use in RPGs. I also have enough minis to use to cross-over or sub into other gaming systems. I bought minis for "sociable" gaming with other like-minded skirmishers.

To be honest, I am disinterested in the announcement, and hope I do not become uninterested.

What I am going to avoid is buying into a gaming system that rapidly becomes "discontinued". My home is full oh pre-painted plastic from games that are no longer supported by their manufacturers or by local gaming stores.
Again, the Guild is doing a better job with the game than Wizards ever did. Personally I hope the new game will be just that, a new game. It would be wonderful if Wizards produced new minis that can be used in DDM and also developed a new game. I might even try the new game out if there is crossover minis wise. If the new game is meant to replace the old, that would rather infuriate me (unless by some miracle the new game is even more fun than current DDM. I give it about a one in fifteen million chance for that.). If Wizards starts hampering the Guild, then that's it for me and WotC.

So, to reiterate,
WotC brings in a new game with no crossover to current DDM, fine, might try it.
WotC brings in a new game, minis can be used for DDM, very happy, will likely try the new game out also.
WotC brings in a new game, meant to replace DDM, starts pulling licences, attempts to dissolve Guild, WotC loses my business.
If they're going to be painted minis, this is great news.  I don't play the minis game, but I love having just the right mini for my encounters and the fact that they will be nonrandom is welcome news for me.  Hopefully there will be a good variety of monster sets to choose from too.

OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player. 3E challenged the character, not the player. Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM. That's why I love 4E.

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"People treat their lack of imagination as if it's the measure of what's silly. Which is silly." - Noon

"Challenge" is overrated.  "Immersion" is usually just a more pretentious way of saying "having fun playing D&D."

"Falling down is how you grow.  Staying down is how you die.  It's not what happens to you, it's what you do after it happens.”

Again, the Guild is doing a better job with the game than Wizards ever did ...

WotC brings in a new game with no crossover to current DDM, fine, might try it.
WotC brings in a new game, minis can be used for DDM, very happy, will likely try the new game out also.
WotC brings in a new game, meant to replace DDM, starts pulling licences, attempts to dissolve Guild, WotC loses my business.




My thoughts and feelings precisely.
I genuinely hope the Guild is allowed to continue to support the DDM Skirmish game, both OE and RE. The Guild leads (those governing, producing for and play testing for) are doing a great job. I love the recent items cards, Beholder set and Blue Dagon scenario, as well as the half-maps and recent rules updates. In game-playing and hobbying terms, it would be more than a shame if for some reason the Guild stopped supporting the two current skirmish games. Could the skirmish game survive without the licience? Or unofficially like Heroscape/Heroscapers? As for the newly announced miniatures game from WotC, I have not made up my mind about this one. It all depends one what it is like. No interest from a collecting point of view or for use in RPGs. I also have enough minis to use to cross-over or sub into other gaming systems. I bought minis for "sociable" gaming with other like-minded skirmishers. To be honest, I am disinterested in the announcement, and hope I do not become uninterested. What I am going to avoid is buying into a gaming system that rapidly becomes "discontinued". My home is full oh pre-painted plastic from games that are no longer supported by their manufacturers or by local gaming stores.

I don't know what's to come, but, extrapolating from your comment, one possible interesting future would be for the existing minis to be restatted (yes, again) for use with the new skirmish game. After all, if the new game is a different game (so maybe it doesn't take on the moniker DDM 3.0), then slowly incorporating the figures from 1.0 and 2.0 doesn't have to do that new game any harm, and gives people with 1000+ figure collections something to do. Also, if the new game is anything like previous skirmish games with figures, then figures sales will be driven by RPG use anyway, and the skirmish community might be allowed to exist in its own weird competitive/cooperative bubble.

Just a thought.

Dave 
Again, the Guild is doing a better job with the game than Wizards ever did.

From which do you think it follows that WotC ought to go out of its way to invite the Guild members to join their team? (Whether as consultants or employees matters not to me, I'm just curious what you think about whether WotC asking Guild members for input is a good idea.)
Personally I hope the new game will be just that, a new game. It would be wonderful if Wizards produced new minis that can be used in DDM and also developed a new game. I might even try the new game out if there is crossover minis wise. If the new game is meant to replace the old, that would rather infuriate me (unless by some miracle the new game is even more fun than current DDM. I give it about a one in fifteen million chance for that.).

What if the new game is significantly different? For example, consider Dreamblade. That game was significantly different. What if Dreamblade had used DDM pieces? Could there have been a reason to play both games?
If Wizards starts hampering the Guild, then that's it for me and WotC.

I wonder how many skirmishers feel this way, and whether "writing to your representative," as it were, would be productive. Do you think WotC staff (higher-ups, managers, you know, not the guys in the trenches) know this about DDM players?
So, to reiterate, WotC brings in a new game with no crossover to current DDM, fine, might try it. WotC brings in a new game, minis can be used for DDM, very happy, will likely try the new game out also. WotC brings in a new game, meant to replace DDM, starts pulling licences, attempts to dissolve Guild, WotC loses my business.

I think a lot of people are afraid of this last option. I wonder if this is as much an OP (organized play) issue as anything else? To whom should concerned players (and future purchasers) of WotC's products implore?

Dave
Well, if the people in the trenches are doing their job, the managers know. I also believe that WotC has been using the guildies quite a lot as consultants, so I don't understand why exactly they would stop doing so? If they are not using the Guild guys at all, then they are being WotC again.

 
Personally, and I mean no offense by this, I'd rather see a miniatures game sponsored by WotC than the DDM Guild. Mostly because of the quality of print products that come with buying the miniatures.

That said. I see no reason why the DDM Guild can't come up with stat cards for the upcoming minis. This works especially if the new minis are new sculpts. I don't see how WotC would like to see the DDM Guild competing for their new skirmish game but having the DDM Guild support the new minis could create another option for buyers. Axe the DDM Guild and there might be a potential customer base loss. On the other side- maybe the new skirmish game will massively supplant DDM.

My personal advice, and I'm not qualified here, would be for WotC to forget that the DDM Guild exists. Let them do what they are currently doing, allow them to come up with stats and have tournaments. Sorta support DDM Guild behind the scenes. But all public and official support needs to be for the new skirmish game. A unified front for the new stuff.
I'm a small amount apprehensive about no dice.  It doesn't seem D&D without a d20. 

That said, I know that the dev team are all avid boardgamers, and there are plenty of awesome modern games without dice.  

The guild has done a great job with the re-stats and creating skirmish stats for the new minis.   Scratch that, they've done a f---ing *fantastic* job- I'll be using their cards yet again tonight.   

That being said, I don't blame WotC for not consulting the guild.  It's a new game, and sometimes having too many chefs with strong opinions can hinder creativity and efficiency.  

Plus, these guys are being *paid*.  They want to succeed or fail under their own steam.  Can't blame em- that's how 99% of us work at own jobs, right?

Why would WotC pull support/consent for DDM guild?  That's just paranioa.  I imagine the status quo will survive: yes, new game and yes, DDM guild can keep making their d20 based stats for new minis.

I imagine the d20 based players can have their events at cons, and the card game players can have theirs.  Cons and events have so_many_friggin_types_of_games why wouldn't DDM Guild survive?


1) WotC brings in a new game with no crossover to current DDM, fine, might try it.
2) WotC brings in a new game, minis can be used for DDM, very happy, will likely try the new game out also.
3) WotC brings in a new game, meant to replace DDM, starts pulling licences, attempts to dissolve Guild, WotC loses my business.



I agree.  I am most in favor of 2).  Especially if new figures can be added to DDM to keep it alive and growing. 

Or, I like what Vrek said if they add to this new game by restating older DDM figures for the new game.  A great pool of miniatures to pull from.  That would be cool. 

But, I have a couple of worries.  First, I am worried about a "Dreamblade" type scenario where $ for tournaments pulls players from DDM.  It failed in the past because it went head to head with DDM and there were a number of other miniature games going on at the same time.  This time if they (WotC) pull the plug on DDM, no competition.  They could even use their molds form all the figures they made for some for thier new game.  Not a good scenario IMO. 

Second, I am worried about a "diceless" game.  It reminds me of another recent miniatures card game that used cards mostly for tactics and such some dice for damage = World of Warcraft.  It started out with a bang, but died a very quick death.  As a skirmish game it lacked greatly in strategy and game play.  The figures and attached cards really determined the play of the game and dice added a little variance.  I would not like to see this in the new game from WotC. 

Anyway, my $0.02 worth. 

Cool

 First, I am worried about a "Dreamblade" type scenario where $ for tournaments pulls players from DDM.



I would think that WotC is highly attuned to what games have and haven't succeeded recently, including some other games of their own besides those mentioned here. If they cannot learn from their past mistakes, then that's a very bad sign for their future success unless they're profoundly lucky.

Second, I am worried about a "diceless" game.  It reminds me of another recent miniatures card game that used cards mostly for tactics and such some dice for damage = World of Warcraft.



But suppose it works, whatever it is. Does it matter if the game uses a die, groups of dice, different kinds of dice, cards, cards and dice, chits, cards and chits, cards and dice and chits, etc.? I would think the bottom line is "Is the game fun to play as it's designed."

If the game is to have a competitive skirmish angle, then I would imagine it will have a strong component of skill involved (as recent skirmish games have had), and that there will probably be some element of luck involved even if it's "controlled" luck like using a selected deck or something.

Heck, Monopoly has decks, and that adds to the element of that game.

 Dave
I'm curious about the game. I agree JustJooAivan's options, completely new game keeps me off, but if I can get new use for my DDM I might get in. Tiles sound excellent for rpg use, I might be willing to invest some money just for tiles & cards if I can use my own minis and the game turns out to be great. I'm only interested in new minis if there's something really cool I need
Shaper & Maker galleries
On the second thought, I started to hate the idea of gazillion new cards - I REALLY hope each miniature won't have a card of it's own, that would be likely to turn me away from it. 



I wrote some thoughts and speculations of this game in my blog (sig), something in the description makes me think of Memoir '44, which would be good. If it has faction cards, some separate hero cards + action cards I'd be very interested.
Shaper & Maker galleries
lets see....  More figs of orcs, skeletons, and goblins......?



meh.


I got all the mundane ones covered.  What I want are the exotic figs.


This new miniatures news is uninspiring to say the least.


Oh and no dice rolling?!?!?!?  WTH?           
www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...


D&D Skirmish Board Game Playtest

Rodney Thompson




As announced at this year’s Gen Con Product Line Review seminar, we are planning to release themed sets of miniatures in the future; accompanying these minis will be new skirmish rules that we are pleased to offer now for playtesting.


To playtest these new rules, you’ll just need to keep in mind the following:



  • You will need to have a wizards account and community profile, and join the public playtest group:community.wizards.com/dnd_playtesting.

  • This group is open to anyone to join.

  • Once you join the group, you must agree to the Online Play Test Agreement (OPTA) on the documents module. You can then download the playtest document.


And there you have it! Before you head there, however, Rodney Thompson offers the following introduction about the skirmish game, the playtest , and your important feedback.



Joined the playtest group.  I'm excited about the idea of any DnD minis that Wizards will produce. 
I'll be frank, I never cared about the DDM skirmish game - even the 1.0 rules were too complicated and the battles a bit uneven, and the 2.0 was even worse.

I always collected the minis themselves because of the cool looks, and because they represent iconic creatures and beings. So, the more, the merrier! But I do hope, that themed sets will eventually include more specific creatures. I mean, I'd love a "The shock troops of Cania" set with two Gelugons and two Cornugons... or a "Mind and Muscle" set of two Illithids with an enslaved Umber Hulk and two quaggoth guards. How about a "Trash and Treasure" set of an Otyugh, some slimes and a treasure chest (actually a mimic)?
So, to reiterate, WotC brings in a new game with no crossover to current DDM, fine, might try it.
 WotC brings in a new game, minis can be used for DDM, very happy, will likely try the new game out also.
WotC brings in a new game, meant to replace DDM, starts pulling licences, attempts to dissolve Guild, WotC loses my business.



I also agree, couldn't have put it better myself.
I'm excited that WotC will produce new minis. I never played the minis game, but I owned hundreds of them before I left the game years ago. Now that I might start playing (and considering I sold all my minis when I moved), I'm sad that the legions I'd put together are out of my price range.


As a previous poster said, the tokens are okay, but minis are great for the players.   
None Random minis eh?! I wonder if their taking a page out the games workshop book. If so then the skirmish game could be really really interesting to get into. I love the D&D minis and have been really upset since the announcment that they would discontinue them. I wish they would throw out a bit more of a teaser for the new line.
So, we have any news about the new line of minis that wizard is going to make? 

"Ah, the age-old conundrum. Defenders of a game are too blind to see it's broken, and critics are too idiotic to see that it isn't." - Brian McCormick

And Drow too. To summarize: Amazon has posted three items in the line of non-random DDM packs for their new card-based skirmish game, with a MSRP of $39.99. The first two are scheduled for release on July 17th:

Dungeon Command: Drow

Dungeon Command: Heroes

with a third pack scheduled for August 21st

Dungeon Command: Goblins
I'm a fan of goblins. Never have too many goblins, taint possible. I don't have nearly enough drow and some more heroes would be nice. How about townfolk? :D