Help with alternate spell system

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Hi everyone!


I've decided (I'm the DM) to test out a new spell point (mana) system, but I need some help creating it. I got the idea from unearthed arcana, but since it's 3.0 (which I do not have access to) and we're player 3.5 I thought that this would be the ideal place to get some help. No restrictions, but it'll have to be relatively balanced (300 fireballs for a level 20 wizard would not be balanced) and I need formulaes for the core classes (sorcerer got more spells than wizards, so they probably have more mana) etc.


 


I had in mind to follow the generals in the expanded psionics handbook, but keep the standard scaling for spells (no 5d6 fireballs for level 20 wizards....), just the pure costs for each spell. I'm open to other suggestions, or use an existing alternate system. If it matters, I'm using the 8 hour sleep=ready for action.


 


Thanks for your attention!


 


 


Best Regards


-HighDarkTemplar


Hi everyone!


I've decided (I'm the DM) to test out a new spell point (mana) system, but I need some help creating it. I got the idea from unearthed arcana, but since it's 3.0 (which I do not have access to) and we're player 3.5 I thought that this would be the ideal place to get some help. No restrictions, but it'll have to be relatively balanced (300 fireballs for a level 20 wizard would not be balanced) and I need formulaes for the core classes (sorcerer got more spells than wizards, so they probably have more mana) etc.


 


I had in mind to follow the generals in the expanded psionics handbook, but keep the standard scaling for spells (no 5d6 fireballs for level 20 wizards....), just the pure costs for each spell. I'm open to other suggestions, or use an existing alternate system. If it matters, I'm using the 8 hour sleep=ready for action.


 


Thanks for your attention!


 


 


Best Regards


-HighDarkTemplar



Play the psionics rules and call them magic. The wilder is your sorcerer (re-read Wild Surge: it provides "free" power points every time you use it).

Seriously. That's all you need.

Wizards themselves tried to port it over to magic in Unearthed Arcana's Spell Point system, but it also had the same section I bolded from your suggestion. That is a very bad idea.

Sure, everyone looks at the Fireball type damage spells as the baseline, and thinks that they can cut out spell scaling on them and all is well. (In your case, you don't even want to consider that pretext...). However, the problem never was Fireball. The problem was that magic in general has amazing debuff, control, and save-or-die effects on the cheap, since they tend to be balanced by their inability to be spammed (due to spell slots). You can't use your lower-level spell slots to add in more Phantasmal Killers, but you can with your spell points. And unlike Fireball, Phantasmal Killer isn't affected by damage scaling.



The amazing amount of balance that the XPH system shows is due in a large part to its powers being designed to not freely scale, but rather be built on a "you get what you pay for" strategy. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been able to successfully port over spells to a spell point system, due to the spells not being designed that way (i.e. the fireball cast by a 9th level wizard is competitive with their Cone of Cold, and since Cone of Cold is balanced with other 5th level effects... etc.). 

Just play psionics. There's your answer. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

whats wrong with a level 20 wizard casting 200 unmodified fireballs. He's supposed to be arcane terror incarnate. And it's not like this is a realistic threat against his actual enemies.
I just got married, 16.7.2011, to a sexy librarian :D Suck it fate, there's no justice in the real world. There's no way I deserve this ;) -------------- The most interesting rules always kinda taste like lasagna

Hi everyone!


I've decided (I'm the DM) to test out a new spell point (mana) system, but I need some help creating it. I got the idea from unearthed arcana, but since it's 3.0 (which I do not have access to) and we're player 3.5 I thought that this would be the ideal place to get some help. No restrictions, but it'll have to be relatively balanced (300 fireballs for a level 20 wizard would not be balanced) and I need formulaes for the core classes (sorcerer got more spells than wizards, so they probably have more mana) etc.


 


I had in mind to follow the generals in the expanded psionics handbook, but keep the standard scaling for spells (no 5d6 fireballs for level 20 wizards....), just the pure costs for each spell. I'm open to other suggestions, or use an existing alternate system. If it matters, I'm using the 8 hour sleep=ready for action.


 


Thanks for your attention!


 


 


Best Regards


-HighDarkTemplar



Play the psionics rules and call them magic. The wilder is your sorcerer (re-read Wild Surge: it provides "free" power points every time you use it).

Seriously. That's all you need.

Wizards themselves tried to port it over to magic in Unearthed Arcana's Spell Point system, but it also had the same section I bolded from your suggestion. That is a very bad idea.

Sure, everyone looks at the Fireball type damage spells as the baseline, and thinks that they can cut out spell scaling on them and all is well. (In your case, you don't even want to consider that pretext...). However, the problem never was Fireball. The problem was that magic in general has amazing debuff, control, and save-or-die effects on the cheap, since they tend to be balanced by their inability to be spammed (due to spell slots). You can't use your lower-level spell slots to add in more Phantasmal Killers, but you can with your spell points. And unlike Fireball, Phantasmal Killer isn't affected by damage scaling.



The amazing amount of balance that the XPH system shows is due in a large part to its powers being designed to not freely scale, but rather be built on a "you get what you pay for" strategy. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever been able to successfully port over spells to a spell point system, due to the spells not being designed that way (i.e. the fireball cast by a 9th level wizard is competitive with their Cone of Cold, and since Cone of Cold is balanced with other 5th level effects... etc.). 


Just play psionics. There's your answer. 



I do know that psionics are balanced (and that's the reason I love psions, and the idea about "the power of the mind" is cool). Part of the reason I'm looking into this is that I have a player who really hates psionics, so I've tried to more or less leave it out of the game. I've tried talking with him to no avail, and there are not many players where I live (too bad), so I really need to keep hold of them. Honestly, he seems hellbent at hating psionics at some times, which doesn't make things easier.


This would bring up another question, could you or someone else help me find some really convincing and unattackable reasons to have psionics and at the same time, have him accept it so that it won't bother others?




wickedragon: it's 300 fireballs, but if you find the correct monsters, it won't be a threat. And congratulations with your marriage two weeks ago :-)


 


 


Best Regards


-HighDarkTemplar

Part of the reason I'm looking into this is that I have a player who really hates psionics, so I've tried to more or less leave it out of the game. I've tried talking with him to no avail, and there are not many players where I live (too bad), so I really need to keep hold of them. Honestly, he seems hellbent at hating psionics at some times, which doesn't make things easier.

.


How do you plan to have your own custom power points system, while you have a player who hates psionics. Due to what I can only assume is 1 of 2 things. 1- Its different and thats scary. 2- Power points.

If its the first, copy the psionic sections out of the srd, put this in word. Do ctrl+f. Type psychic and then do find and replace for arcane. Tell him you have a homebrew magic system to use. Its totally arcane and not psionic at all.     

If its the second, I don't see him liking any spell points system.

"In a way, you are worse than Krusk"                               " As usual, Krusk comments with assuredness, but lacks the clarity and awareness of what he's talking about"

"Can't say enough how much I agree with Krusk"        "Wow, thank you very much"

"Your advice is the worst"

Hey All,

    So I wanted to chime in a tiny bit because I am in the process of working on a 3.75 for personal use (I dont dig pathfinder) and played with the idea of spell points. It lasted all of two sessions.

    The problem with it is as Tempest described. For caster level based, damage dealing spells, its easy to handle. But what about spells such as enchantment spells like hold person or conjuration spells where it just shortens the duration. (Hi cloudkill). Caster level is not the only limiting factor of spells and spell choices. Casters are limited to the number of higher level spells because they are incredible. And spell points just give them access to lots of castings of their most powerful spells.

   I think that, were you to be hell bent on doing a spell point system, I would make all spells subject to SR, and make all monsters have SR equal to 10 + their CR, or current, which ever is better. That means that if casters dont spend the max points on a spells, they are less likely to get past the SR of a monster they are facing (I would also ban Penetration, etc feats, as they can lessen the need for high spending). By having to spend maximum points on each spell (Non buff of course), it limits the number of high power spells they have, though I think if you do an analysis of it, with spell points in this suggested way, they still end up with more higher level spells than originally, it may be more managable.

My greatest suggestion though: Try it. And make sure they players get that its a test. If it works, yeah! Good gaming! If not, then revert back until you find what you are looking for. Its supposed to be fun, right?

Spell Points for 3.5 just make sure you read the whole thing.
我的氣墊船充滿了鱔魚
Spell Points for 3.5 just make sure you read the whole thing.


No, no, a thousand times no. I covered this one above already.

Spells were designed with a discrete measure of uses available to them. For instance, at level 5, you have X uses per day of a third-level spell effect, and that effect takes place at CL 5. You could not merge your lower level spells to cast that higher level spell more often. Of course, a higher-level wizard (say, level 9) could prepare that third-level spell more often by filling his fourth- and fifth-level spell slots with it, and it would take place at level 9, but since it's a third-level spell, the DC would be lower, and the available fourth- and fifth-level spells render it less useful (the scaling keeps it relevant, but only to a point) - and you STILL couldn't use all your (far more numerous) lower-level slots to bring about that higher-level effect any more often.

Spell points breaks that on its head. Now, you can funnel all your lower-level spell points into your higher-level effects pretty much at will. They attempted to balance this - explicitly, if you read the sidebar - by limiting damage spells, i.e. the single biggest waste of a spell slot in most spellcasters ever. Other spells that clearly do not inflict dice of damage based on your level are not subject to this limit, and always take place at your full caster level. In addition to including several of the best damage spells (i.e. Scorching Ray, the crown jewel of the Blastificer), those spells include the vast majority of the spells that actually matter - i.e. the Spells That Fvcking Kill People (which, along with the utility spells listed on that page, are strangely lacking any spells that "deal a number of dice of damage based on caster level", and thus would all take place at their full level) and pretty much every economics-based spell (i.e. things like Major Creation and Fabricate - the utility spells that rip the game wide open with repeated castings). Some of these spells even freely scale with level in some dimension other than damage dice - and thus would not be caught by the spell point 'balance' attempt either. These spells are the ones that are so powerful for their level that they're only balanced by their limited availability at that level - and Spell Points breaks that wide open, all while claiming to be balanced by nerfbatting the already-sad-in-the-pants damage-based evoker. 

People tried, and failed, for many years to get a balanced spell point system working. The only one that ostensibly did it pulled it off by realizing that the key problem with spell points isn't the points, or even the link between spell points and caster level... but ultimately, the spells themselves. Thus, the system was built from the ground up to avoid most pre-existing spells, but be populated instead by spells that all take place at their lowest base caster level as far as their effect was concerned (while still using their full caster level for things like range, duration, etc most of the time). Then, the rest of the spells operate on a "you get what you pay for" model, just like the damage spells did in the Spell Points model you linked... except here, it applies to every spell. In exchange, they tended to get even more flexibility, and most (but not all, for some reason) spells had a built-in heighten-spell logic (of a sort) to them. (Compare to Spell Points, where clearly the only metamagic they gave any thought to were those that affect damage. Heighten Spell under Spell Points is ridiculously bad for the spells that they try to nerf, and unchanged for those that matter.) In short, a system that did correct all the problems with spell points was eventually introduced.

That system was psionics. And without a rewrite of spells with a similar scope, you aren't going to get a working spell point system in 3.5 D&D.

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

Strange, because I played with it for years and it worked just fine.
我的氣墊船充滿了鱔魚
I've decided (I'm the DM) to test out a new spell point (mana) system, but I need some help creating it. I got the idea from unearthed arcana, but since it's 3.0 (which I do not have access to) and we're player 3.5


I believe Unearthed Arcana is actually 3.5, I double checked with my PDF and it refers to the 3.5 skills and class abilities (e.g. Wild Empathy, Survival, Sleight of Hand etc).
R Grant Erswell Geek in wolf's clothing
If you want a mana point system, there's some other ones I'd recommend instead. Elements of Magic and Monte Cooke's World of Darkness both have some interesting dynamic magic systems where you can have both memorized spells and spells you create on the fly. For a long time I used the 2e Players Option Spells and Magic spell point system with some of the optional rules (channeling, warlocks, etc) for some added flavor (and to tone down casters slightly), although it does take some conversion to get the points to balance with the more spell slots 3e provides over 2e.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
I think the trick to fixing the spell point system would be to add some sort of secondary cost to certain spells, which may or may not reduced or go away with level.

I'm currently working on a system where all characters get 'exertion points'. Exertion points are similar to action points, and closely related to fatigue/exaution systems, as well as the at-will/encounter/daily powers of 4th ed.

Basically, a first level character would have roughly 1 daily, and 2 encounter exertion points. Encounter exertion points are recovered when you rest for at least 15 minutes or so, probably something like 1 encounter point per fifteen minutes. By level 20, you would have something like 4 daily, and 10 encounter exertoin points.

Some spells, say, things that involve 'save or die', or things that can be really broken when spammed, will cost exertion points, the really crazy ones with likely cost daily exertion points, while the lesser ones tend to cost encounter exertion points. Some spells and abilities would reduce in cost as your level goes up, for instance, a power that starts out a daily might become an encounter at higher level, and by the time it is practically worthless, it might lose it's exertion point cost. Generally speaking, whatever spells are currently your highest level, would probably be at least costing an encounter exertion point, or perhaps just if you are spending your maximum spell points on a single spell (ie, if you are level 13 and using 13 spell points). Trying to continue using daily costing abilities when you are out of daily points can be lethal or self-knock out mode easily, probably taking damage (possibly non-lethal) or facing magical backlash, trying to use encounter ones would fatigue you if you are normal, exhaust you if you are fatigued, and knock you out if you are exausted.

I also plan on using this to replace many nonsensical 'use/day' abilities, like rage, and allow the building of some balanced use/day abilities for some classes that could use things like that, such as fighter, without breaking suspension of disbelief.

A similar system could be implemented for spellcasters only in order to improve the balance of spell-point system, basically giving you a number of daily slots, and a number of encounter slots, and causing your current highest level spells to always cost at least encounter slots, and for those without daily slot using spells, they can use them in place of encounter slots, or use them to 'power-up' some spells in some way similar to metamagic or something, and some spells would have encounter or daily costs placed on them always, even when they are no longer your highest level of spell. Save or die type stuff would probably be encounter type ones, while utility type ones that are troublesome would be daily, such as fabricate or major creation.

A good place to look for how to deal with this might be the spell recharge system. Spells with 'general' recharge would only cost an encounter exertion point when they are your highest level spell. Spells with recharge times over an hour would probably cost daily exertion points, and spells with recharge times under an hour would probably cost encounter exertion points.

Or you could just outright combine the spell point and recharge systems, although you might decide to have general recharge spells only use the spell point costs and not worry about recharge times.

The recharge times keeps people from spamming some of the wrong spells, although the list might need some changes, decided by the DM. The spell recharge system and the spell point system combined can be nice because they cover some of each-other's problem areas.

One example of something I plan to do with my exertion point system not for spellcasters is normally characters can use a daily exertion point to simulate a feat for a round that they meet the prerequisites for (similar to using an action point for such), gaining the use of the feat for one turn the turn after he declares it and uses the point. The fighter can gain a fighter-only feat to be able to do so with feats on the fighter bonus feat list using an encounter exertion point and using the feat that round, rather than the following round.