Battlemind Daily OA's

10 posts / 0 new
Last post
I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something, or if some of these powers are being touted as better than they actually are.

I'm referring to any Daily power that gives you a sub-power that can only work when you've used the parent-power.
- The problem is that the sub-power itself is always a daily power and as such can only be used once.

Now - over in the Ender's Game Battlemind Handbook (which has been an awesome resource I must admit) he touts many of these skills as if the sub-power can be used over and over.
example:


  • Shattered Time: (PsP1) Lays claim to a sizeable spot which makes every mob suffer for ignoring you - you punish with an OA and even can double up with a MS afterwards. The sustain minor stings, but it's a fair price to pay. Downright fantastic if you have improved OAs or often fight in enclosed quarters where the mobs cannot easily escape.

    • Effect: You assume the inexorable death stance.  Until the stance ends, you can use the Inexorable Death Attack Power.




The key here is that the guide says "it makes every mob suffer", yet in the end I can only make one mob sufffer, and only once.

  1. Has the skill been errata'd since this guide was written changing these sub-powers from at-wills to dailies?

  2. Is there some weird rule I don't know about that overrules a "daily" limitation of a "sub-power" allowing it to be done as many times as you wish whilen the "parent-power" says it can be done? 


Battlemind has at least one of these kinds of skills at each daily level, where the skill seems ridiculously crippled by the fact that the sub-power can only be triggered once, but was meant to be used a bunch of times?

I mean, shattered time is a pitiful daily in itself, with just some avg dmg, and then the follow up OA just lets you do a bit more than you would with a normal OA.  But the ender's game guide actually considers it the best daily for the level.
In the Compendium powers with a secondary are split into two powers (Warden forms being the primary example). This is due to laziness on the part of the coders. In the source material the secondary attack does not have a keyword of "Daily" and is not limited to being used once.

Or, to put it another way, the Compendium and the CB are Not A Rules Source.
In the Compendium powers with a secondary are split into two powers (Warden forms being the primary example). This is due to laziness on the part of the coders. In the source material the secondary attack does not have a keyword of "Daily" and is not limited to being used once.

Or, to put it another way, the Compendium and the CB are Not A Rules Source.


If the compendium is not a definitive source of the exact state of the game... what is it?
I do not consider source material to be accurate due to errata and changes, and the compendium as the final word on the current state.

I checked my book as well and can confirm what you stated about the source material, but that won't fly at my table.
Then your table is stupid and isn't dealing with the reality of the game state /shrug. Source material is correct. Errata to source material takes precedence assuming any has actually happened (despite all the bitching and moaning very little of 4e has actually been errata'd). The Compendium is neither of those things.

It is a handy searchable reference that is correct about 95% of the time. And that is all it is, it never trumps official errata docs or source material.
In this case, Psionic Power is almost entirely up-to-date as printed. There is a one page, one column update document for it. The complete official list of updates to Psionic Power to date:

Monolithic Vision
Flurry of Blows
Blazing Offensive
Inflict Pain
Manifested Horror
Discorporate Retaliation
Elan Mental Onslaught
Anchoring Armor


Source: wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatePSP.pdf

PHB3 has 2 pages of updates. wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatePH3.pdf  

If there is a difference between compendium and the book, and that difference is not in an update doc or other published source, then the Compendium is wrong. It has often been wrong in places here and there since it was created and should not be assumed to be perfect.

The sad truth is there is no definitive source of the exact state of the game in one place where you can just check and be write. The definitive source is the books/magazines as modified by the update documents, with latest published version overwriting earlier published versions of the same thing.

Compendium is good, compendium is close, but it's not perfect and in cases like this where it seems insanse, a sanity check against the actual sources is called for.

None of these powers has changed, so they all still work as published. 


Steel Unity Strike/Attack is shown correctly in Compendium/CB. I don't know why others wouldn't be.         
good to know.
I can never keep on top of all the errata, and so have (as of the last half year) taken compendium as the final source. 
Then your table is stupid


Really?
We have never had any reason to believe the compendium is not a final resource.  It just may be difficult for others at our group to accept this given that we have for so long assumed the compendium is the final resource.

In the Compendium powers with a secondary are split into two powers (Warden forms being the primary example). This is due to laziness on the part of the coders. In the source material the secondary attack does not have a keyword of "Daily" and is not limited to being used once.

Or, to put it another way, the Compendium and the CB are Not A Rules Source.



Alcestis is entirely correct.

I have reported many in the DDi Forums not long ago and denounced this inacurate practice community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

I have added Shattered Time to the list.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

In the Compendium powers with a secondary are split into two powers (Warden forms being the primary example). This is due to laziness on the part of the coders. In the source material the secondary attack does not have a keyword of "Daily" and is not limited to being used once.

Or, to put it another way, the Compendium and the CB are Not A Rules Source.



Alcestis is entirely correct.

I have reported many in the DDi Forums not long ago and denounced this inacurate practice community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

I have added Shattered Time to the list.


So based on your list, I went into the char builder and looked at my books and found all the other Battlemind discrepancies

  1. Steel Unity Strike - Lvl 1 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily standard and then 2nd an at-will OA



  2. Wild Savagery - Lvl 2 Daily Utility

    • PP shows 1 skill with a primary minor and secondary ImmInt

      • It should be noted that the effect in this skill explicitly states the ImmInt Attack can be used once during the encounter



    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily minor and then 2nd a daily ImmInt



  3. Beckoning Strike - Lvl 5 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily Standard and then 2nd a daily OA



  4. Cascade of Rippling Force - Lvl 9 Daily attack

    • Dark Sun - Don't have this book - Not sure what the original source indicates

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily standard and then 2nd a daily move



  5. Inexorable Death Attack - Lvl 9 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily Standard and then 2nd a daily OA



  6. Shattered Time - Lvl 9 Daily attack

    • PP shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily Standard and then 2nd a daily OA



  7. Paralyzing Fear Strike - Lvl 15 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily Standard and then 2nd a daily OA



  8. Relentless Strike - Lvl 19 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily Standard and then 2nd a daily OA



  9. Corona of the Sunsphere - Lvl 25 Daily attack

    • Dark Sun - Don't have this book - Now sure what the original source indicates

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily standard and then 2nd a daily OA



  10. Deadly Haste Strike - Lvl 25 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily standard and then 2nd an at-will OA



  11. Darting Grace Strike - Lvl 29 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary attack and secondary effect

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily standard and then 2nd a daily Free Action



  12. Mind-Sundering Burst - Lvl 29 Daily attack

    • PHB3 shows 1 skill with a primary and secondary attack

    • OCB shows 2 skills, first a daily standard and then 2nd a daily OA




Now
Why do (1) and (10) show at-wills and the rest do not?
This is either:
A) a massive oversight (only fixed what they spotted and didn't do any thorough QA to find the rest affected by the "bug")
or
B) Intentional changes to the skills without any official errata

At this point, can we really assume (A)?  You would think that if they managed to correct one instance of a known display issue, they would have caught them all?  Of course (B) is a dick move (intentional or unintentional) on behalf of wizards, but lets be realistic here, they are making a massive game and not everything is going to be perfect (this is why we need errata to begin with...)

Also, (2) might not fit into this very well, since it's the only skill that actually states a limitation on the amount of times the 2nd portion can be used, and unless we split hairs - having it as a daily doesn't really change much except in weird situations where you could re-use specifically an encounter power (and even then it still doesn't have the encounter keyword, nor is it technically it's own power to be re-used)

 
So the choices are between incompetence and and a nefarious plan to update content without telling anyone?

I'm comfortable voting for incompetence, especially since very similar issues with Warden powers have been in the Compendium for verging on three years now.