Mind Spike, Prescient Retaliation and Lure of Iron

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First, I'm trying to find if there has been an official ruling on even Mind Spike & Prescient Retaliation.
By sheer RAW, the change of Mind Spike to an ImmInt seems to do nothing cause the hit is still a hit, as where the intended purpose of the feat is to make the "action technically invalid" due to the interrupt

But I know that because the rules here are not solid (based on intention, not actual wording) if I add Lure of Iron to the mix, my DM is going to call a giant BS on "rules interpretations" and throw this combo out the window.

With Lure of Iron and Prescient Retaliation, I would have the ability to push the foe away, at which point assuming they don't have reach, would "invalidate the damage" (otherwise what's the point of having it as ImmInt rather than ImmRea).  This would have a final result negating their ability to deal damage to the foe very easily (likely every time), while still dealing the damage from the mind spike back on the foe.

But if my DM looks at this combo, he'd likely make it so the foe's attack still damaged, despite being shifted away, and taking the MS damage before being able to deal the damage to my ally...  cause that is RAW interpretation (only requirement for "dmg" step is "hit", and the "hit" isn't interrupted)
Your interpretation is completely correct (even down to the head-screatching 'how does prescient retaliation work').

If your DM thinks it's overpowered and wants to houserule it, that's his perogative.  Personally, I'd point out that very few monsters in epic DON'T have reach, and even if they don't, you can still only negate a max of 2 attacks a round with Rapid Mind Spike.  But by the actual rules, you are correct, and it can negate an attack if it slides them out of reach.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
If your DM thinks it's overpowered and wants to houserule it.


Our DM has never houseruled that I can think of.  The problem here is that RAW doesn't exactly exist, so the DM has to make a interpretation based on insufficient information.  This is not houseruling, since it isn't overruling any known known RAW rule.

Our rules interpretation requires 2 assumptions
1) it's what the skill intended to so
2) the feat is essentially useless if the process of actually interrupting damage did nothing

now - to argue against these rules
(1) isn't RAW
(2) wouldn't be the first time I've seen practically useless feats and skills
So a DM can rule against, without houseruling and believing they are enforcing RAW as best as possible given the insufficient rules provided

Unless someone has a reference to a true RAW explanation that proves one way or the other.  Simply being the accepted intended use != RAW. 
Does someone have said reference? 

Our DM has never houseruled that I can think of.  The problem here is that RAW doesn't exactly exist, so the DM has to make a interpretation based on insufficient information.  This is not houseruling, since it isn't overruling any known known RAW rule.

Our rules interpretation requires 2 assumptions
1) it's what the skill intended to so
2) the feat is essentially useless if the process of actually interrupting damage did nothing

now - to argue against these rules
(1) isn't RAW
(2) wouldn't be the first time I've seen practically useless feats and skills
So a DM can rule against, without houseruling and believing they are enforcing RAW as best as possible given the insufficient rules provided

Unless someone has a reference to a true RAW explanation that proves one way or the other.  Simply being the accepted intended use != RAW. 
Does someone have said reference? 



See, you're actually wrong; this is pure RAW.

The real confusion is based on the fact that Mind Spike needs to know how much damage the triggering attack did to properly resolve.  But as far as the slide invalidating the attack?  That is 100% RAW.  Check out any of the rules on interrupts; if an interrupt invalidates the triggering action, the triggering action is lost.  (You seem to already know this, so I'm confused what you're confused on).


Mind Spike will do 0 damage when used in this fashion, because the triggering attack did 0 damage.  But it will invalidate the attack.

The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
You spent 3 feats to make sure your mark is obeyed by a certain group of enemies.

It's a reasonable cost-for-power raito.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

But as far as the slide invalidating the attack?  That is 100% RAW.  Check out any of the rules on interrupts; if an interrupt invalidates the triggering action, the triggering action is lost.  (You seem to already know this, so I'm confused what you're confused on).


Mind Spike will do 0 damage when used in this fashion, because the triggering attack did 0 damage.  But it will invalidate the attack.


See that doesn't even make any sense.  If invalidating the attack by interrupting between hit and dmg, then how is it even possible to kill a foe with mind spike interrupt?

Take the following 2 cases (first where the foe dies, then when lure of iron interrupts)
1) Foe attacks
Mind Spike interrupts
foe dies ("attack interrupted")
2) Foe attacks
Mind Spike interrupts & slides foe
foe is out of range ("attack interrupted")

In the first case, the damage needs to be dealt out by mind spike to actually perform the interrupt, but in the 2nd case, you're saying that damage is zero because of the interrupt.  Based on your logic of "attack is invalidated, therefore mind spike does 0 damage" it then essentially becomes impossible to kill a foe using mind spike as an interrupt.
If the foe were to die by MS, attack is interrupted and he deals no damage for the attack, thus MS is 0 and cannot kill the foe to begin with.

So your explanation doesn't work as it creates a contradiction or an impossible case that goes back and forth infinitely.

So back to what is RAW -
The fact that the foe is no longer in range, or dead, as far as RAW rules go, does not actually interrupt the damage being dealt.
We have only a single source for the resolution of an attack: (PHB 269)
Step 1 - choose the attack used -  Completed
Step 2 - Choose targets - Completed
Step 3 - Make attack roll - Completed
Step 4 - Compare attack roll to target's Defence - hit - completed
Step 5 - Deal Damage - Interrupted 
Interrupt - Mind spike deal damage (kill or slide foe away)
Step 5 - Deal Damage -> The only requirement to deal damage is a successful hit.  As such, interrupting the damage, there is nothing left to actually invalidate.
- Note the interrupt was *after* the hit.  The hit has occurred and was not invalidated, and the damage comes automatically.


The issue is where the trigger actually is.  You technically do not interrupt the action, but partway through an action.


In the first case, the damage needs to be dealt out by mind spike to actually perform the interrupt, but in the 2nd case, you're saying that damage is zero because of the interrupt.  Based on your logic of "attack is invalidated, therefore mind spike does 0 damage" it then essentially becomes impossible to kill a foe using mind spike as an interrupt.
If the foe were to die by MS, attack is interrupted and he deals no damage for the attack, thus MS is 0 and cannot kill the foe to begin with.



Luckily the foe is already dead and so it doesn't matter.

The Mind Spike deals damage equal to how much the attack would have done had it hit. Simple.
 
The Mind Spike deals damage equal to how much the attack would have done had it hit. Simple.


The problem is that the wording doesn't say that.  The wording says "damage equal to the damage that its attack dealt to your ally".
Of course "damage equal to the damage that its attack would have dealt your ally" is the intended functionality, but from then on, it's all dependent on how far you take the interpretation of "intended".

So if you can kill a foe with an ImmInt Mind Spike, why would sliding the foe away negate the damage you deal to them?

Now from our tables' perspective, this discussion would have ended ages ago with the DM forcing a decision likely in favour of the foe to keep things moving (which I will not contest at the table).  I am arguing what my DM is likely to argue on the fly, and the fact that no one has yet provided anything conclusive indicates that my DM will not accept any of this.
This whole thing needs some errata bigtime. 
So if you can kill a foe with an ImmInt Mind Spike, why would sliding the foe away negate the damage you deal to them?



I'm of the opinion that it doesn't, so I'm the wrong guy to ask on that one. Tongue out


The Mind Spike deals damage equal to how much the attack would have done had it hit. Simple.

The problem is that the wording doesn't say that.  The wording says "damage equal to the damage that its attack dealt to your ally".
Of course "damage equal to the damage that its attack would have dealt your ally" is the intended functionality, but from then on, it's all dependent on how far you take the interpretation of "intended".

So...

If you kill him, he deals no damage, and therefor takes no damage, and therefor doesn't die, and therefor deals damage, which means he takes damage, which means he dies, which means he deals no damage, which means he takes no damage, which means he doesn't die, which means he deals damage....

I think something needs adjusted. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

So basically you can run across situations where Mindspike divides by zero. All the more reason to accept that Lightning Rush is the real Battlemind defender mechanic.
If you kill him, he deals no damage, and therefor takes no damage, and therefor doesn't die, and therefor deals damage, which means he takes damage, which means he dies, which means he deals no damage, which means he takes no damage, which means he doesn't die, which means he deals damage....

I think something needs adjusted. 


That's exactly what I was saying above.

So your explanation doesn't work as it creates a contradiction or an impossible case that goes back and forth infinitely.


This infinite loop then creates the issue:
1) Mind Spike is both dealing damage and not dealing damage
2) The foe is both dealing damage and not dealing damage
How do you even rule that (1) does damage while (2) does not?  Since this is a flaw in the rules with no actual solid RAW answer (without potential future errata) no DM would ever allow (1) to do damage without (2) also doing damage.

So - with Death, there is no way for either of you to not deal any damage, cause the foe wouldn't die.
- As such, both the foe and Mind Spike must deal damage for the conditions to be met.

Then if Death can't prevent the foes damage from occurring, neither will sliding the foe away
- Both foe and Mind Spike get to deal damage.

Which means, the whole combo is essentially worthless.
So basically you can run across situations where Mindspike divides by zero. All the more reason to accept that Lightning Rush is the real Battlemind defender mechanic.


Tongue out
See, killing with mind spike isn't going to happen that often.  But that as far as I can tell is the whole purpose of changing mind spike to an ImmInt.  Then when you add Lure or Iron into the mix, it actually makes it so the issue can trigger almost every time (the only exceptions being where the foe can't be slid out of range of the ally).

I like that divide by Zero comment.Laughing 
I like that divide by Zero comment. 



The simple solution is that Mind Spike is actually tearing through the time space continuum and creating an effect similar to putting a bag of holding into a portable hole...

Or was it portable hole into bag of holding...

But isn't this entire argument invalidated ...by the fact that you are interrupting the damage not the hit?

"Trigger: An adjacent enemy marked by you deals damage to your ally with an attack that doesn’t include you as a target"

Similar powers do this...but when you interrupt damage, the hit step is not replaced...so that still happened. (i.e., Resilience of Stone doesn't stop you from getting hit) 
If Mind Spike as an II kills the target, the hit is invalidated.

Once Mind Spike is fully resolved, it can't be further changed.  And at the point of its resolution, the damage on the ally still is nonzero.  After the resolution, though, when the monster cannot attack anymore because it's dead, is not relevant because Mind Spike has been resolved and is over.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Whoa, whoa, Mind Spike reacts to the damage? You cannot invalidate a hit that has happened even if you slide the target out of range before the damage is dealt (or kill it, for that matter). You have to II the hit to invalidate an attack.
Once Mind Spike is fully resolved, it can't be further changed.  And at the point of its resolution, the damage on the ally still is nonzero.


Read the text for mind spike again though on how it determines how much damage is actually .


  • Effect: The target takes force and psychic damage equal to the damage that its attack dealt to your ally.


Note that the amount of damage dished out by mind spike cannot exist until the damage has been taken by the ally.  Therefore if you were to argue that Mind Spike resolves before the foe deals damage, then at the exact precise moment mind spike resolves, the ally has not yet taken any damage! 

So based on your definition of resolution mind spike as an ImmInt would always do 0 damage each and every time.
Your resolution process doesn't work.
The main issue I'm seeing here is, since Mind Spike triggers from the damage, what's the difference in making it an interrupt rather than a reaction?  If the damage has to be done, then making MS an interrupt does nothing since the damage already takes place.  At best, it would help prevent an enemy from multiattacking/using minor action attacks, but MS as an immediate reaction already does that.
If the damage has to be done, then making MS an interrupt does nothing since the damage already takes place.


Bingo, this is the RAW interpretation I have come to with my group.
- This skills needs an errata, cause currently it is worthless.

If you kill him, he deals no damage, and therefor takes no damage, and therefor doesn't die, and therefor deals damage, which means he takes damage, which means he dies, which means he deals no damage, which means he takes no damage, which means he doesn't die, which means he deals damage....

I think something needs adjusted. 



  

Agree with mello.  

Turning Mind Spike into an Interrupt has essentially no benefit from a damage point of view since it require damage to be dealt to an ally in other to deal some damage to the target.

But other enhancing effects not inherently attached to Mind Spike that impede, Daze or whatever would still affect it. (ex. Spike of Madeness)

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Wait, so you'd accept a Mind Spike that resolves as a stun to prevent the attack, but not a Mind Spike that results in lethal damage?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
 Weird. How can you Interrupt a damage before it resolve and deal damage equal to it without applying some retrospec ?

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

In the sequence I described above.

Attack hits, proceeds to the damage step.  Damage is rolled, all modifiers accounted for, and a final number is obtained.

Mindspike trigger condition is thus attained, and Mindspike is used as an immediate interrupt.

In the absence of any further interrupts, Mindspike resolves as any immediate interrupt would, which is to say before its trigger resolves.  And at the time that Mindspike resolves, the damage is that of the initial damage roll, so Mindspike gets to deal damage itself.  And during that resolution, Mindspike is dealing its full, normal damage.

After Mindspike is resolved, we then resolve the trigger, which is the damaging attack.  Unless you believe that a dead creature can still deal damage, this would prevent the attack.  Your answer must be the same for all interrupts that damage, or that stun/daze/push/pull/slide/teleport/etc.  The interrupt must resolve completely before the trigger resolves.

You say that it can't be done without retroing the sequence, but that's the fundamental nature of interrupts.  It's what they do.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Note that the amount of damage dished out by mind spike cannot exist until the damage has been taken by the ally.  Therefore if you were to argue that Mind Spike resolves before the foe deals damage, then at the exact precise moment mind spike resolves, the ally has not yet taken any damage!


But it has met the trigger for Mind Spike, which is all that matters:

Trigger: An adjacent enemy marked by you deals damage to your ally with an attack that doesn’t include you as a target

In fact, your ally has taken that damage when Mind Spike triggers, which sets up the effects of the power as derived from that trigger. 

I mean, otherwise all IIs that trigger on damage are nonfunctional.  There are a lot that say things like "Reduce the damage to zero" or change your defenses, or move the attacker or the target...etc.  I prefer to think that the rules do what they say, rather than nothing.  But maybe that's just me.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Your argument doesn't really contradict his. The rule is doing what it says. It is inflicting the amount of damage done, which is zero. The problem here is with Prescient Retaliation not working by the actual RAW (much like Snapping Tetsudo or various other Dragon items written by people who are not good at the rules).
But it's not zero when Mindspike is dealing it's damage.  It's zero after Mindspike has dealt its damage, but that's not important.

Mindspike is dealing the amount of damage dealt by its trigger, not in the resolution of the power, and not prior to its trigger.  Interrupts resolve before their triggers resolve, but they do not resolve before their triggers start.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Dealing damage only happens when damage is resolved. So, again, not really contradicting him.
Stunning, Death, Unconiousness, being out of range etc have no bearing on damage dealt, only on ability to take actions.  Hence, PC takes damage as normal.  Mind Spike would have to impose an effect that decreased damage dealt or taken to prevent any damage.  Weakening the enemy would work.

Remember, the interrupt can only invaludate its trigger, which is damage being dealt.  Mind Spike does not interrupt the attack itself.

Dealing damage only happens when damage is resolved. So, again, not really contradicting him.



No taking damage only happens when dealing damage is resolved.

2a. Mindspike resolves
1.  Damage dealt
2.  Mindspike triggers
3.  Apply Resistances and Vulnerabilities
4.  Damage Taken
It'd be 3a, but yes.

Alcestis, are you really claiming that the genasi racial Firedeath is a nonfunctional power?


Firedeath

As all fires must burn out, so does each attack on you dwindle and die.


Encounter
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Trigger: You take damage


Effect: All damage dice rolled for the triggering attack are considered to have a result of 1.

D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It'd be 3a, but yes.

Alcestis, are you really claiming that the genasi racial Firedeath is a nonfunctional power?


Firedeath

As all fires must burn out, so does each attack on you dwindle and die.


Encounter
Immediate Interrupt      Personal


Trigger: You take damage


Effect: All damage dice rolled for the triggering attack are considered to have a result of 1.



No, there is a key difference between firedeath and mind spike.
Mind spike is both dealing damage out on top of the damage being taken in from the attack.
Firedeath is only about damage being taken back.

Again, it all comes down to the fact that because of the trigger of ally taking damage for the ImmInt, the damage has not yet occurred (is zero) when we look at resolving the ImmInt.

Lets look at the steps again
1) Choose the attack used
2) Choose Targets
3) Make attack Roll
4) Compare attack roll vs Defence
5) Deal Damage (interrupted) Any and all attempts at damage resolution are delayed until after the Interrupt resolves.  To attempt step 5 would break the rules of interrupts.
- So, how much damage has been dealt so far?  zero!  We haven't gotten to step 5 cause the trigger Interrupts step 5!  Note that the damage dice haven't rolled yet either cause (drumroll...) the trigger interrupts step 5!
MS Interrupt: Deals damage done to ally back to foe (zero damage!)
FD Interrupt: Turns all future damage rolls for the attack to 1
- Okay, Both MS and FD have resolved now!  Lets get back on track with step 5
5) Deal Damage
FD: damage dice are all 1's - damage is dealt out accordingly
MS: damage is dealt out accordingly

It's all about what has happened, and what hasn't happened.  The trigger interrupts the [target] taking damage!
Any and all attempts at damage resolution are delayed until after the Interrupt resolves.


This is not correct.  Interrupts resolve before their triggers resolve, but they do not resolve before their triggers start.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Any and all attempts at damage resolution are delayed until after the Interrupt resolves.


This is not correct.  Interrupts resolve before their triggers resolve, but they do not resolve before their triggers start.



Ahh, I see what you're saying.  So basically, the damage for the attack is rolled and, if Mind Spike doesn't kill the enemy or invalidate the attack somehow, then your ally takes that damage.  Correct?
Correct.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Any and all attempts at damage resolution are delayed until after the Interrupt resolves.


This is not correct.  Interrupts resolve before their triggers resolve, but they do not resolve before their triggers start.


This doesn't make any difference.
The interrupt is on the ally taking damage.  Therefore it is impossible for the ally to have taken any damage when you go to resolve the interrupt, otherwise it would no longer be an interrupt. 
Which is why your interpretation is wrong.

The ally has taken damage from Mind Spike, but it has not yet been deducted from the ally's hitpoint pool.  This is the trigger that Mind Spike requires.  Mind Spike's resolution then uses that damage total (which triggered it in the first place) and deals damage to the monster, which could potentially kill it.  If it does, the monster damaging the ally is no longer valid, and thus the triggering action is negated as interrupts can do.

It's the exact same concept behind Shield, which is an immediate interrupt that triggers on a hit that can change your AC such that the hit becomes a miss.  If the attack was a miss, then you can't activate Shield's trigger, and so by your reasoning Shield is nonfunctional.  Your interpretation renders a huge quantity of powers simply nonfunctional.  You can't be correct.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
The ally has taken damage from Mind Spike, but it has not yet been deducted from the ally's hitpoint pool.



LOLWUT     (The ally never take damage from Mind Spike)
  
The ally hasn't taken damage yet since you Interrupt this event with Mind Spike.   

I see no timing issue between an enemy dealing damage to your ally and that ally taking damage. These are instantaneous.

If Mind Spike Interrupt, the enemy hasn't dealt any damage to your ally yet. 
 
Trigger: An adjacent enemy marked by you deals damage to your ally with an attack that doesn’t include you as a target
  

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

A power can invalidate the resolution of its trigger, but it can't make its trigger not trigger.  The trigger has happened, and then the interrupt destroys the causality of the universe and we rewind time and result in, admittedly, a paradox - but a paradox that the system is designed to handle and is the entire purpose behind interrupts in the first place.  I should have added "due to the damage being interrupted" at the end of the sentence you quoted.

I'd like to see you address the Shield example, since it uses the exact same timing and trigger mechanic.  How can Shield still work if it turns a hit into a miss, since it triggers only on a hit?  If it doesn't turn a hit into a miss, what's the point of it being an Interrupt and not a Reaction?  What, then, is the point of the Interrupt mechanic at all?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
1) 
The ally has taken damage from Mind Spike, but it has not yet been deducted from the ally's hitpoint pool.


Please tell me where this is defined.
My source is PHB p269 (and further p276).  It does not make any differentiation to that effect.
I have never heard of "damage dealt but not yet subtracted from the hitpoint pool".
It simply says "damage to your target, reducing the target's hit points".  That's not 2 distinct steps, that's one step.

2)
It's the exact same concept behind Shield, which is an immediate interrupt that triggers on a hit that can change your AC such that the hit becomes a miss.  If the attack was a miss, then you can't activate Shield's trigger, and so by your reasoning Shield is nonfunctional.  Your interpretation renders a huge quantity of powers simply nonfunctional.  You can't be correct.


Since when have we ever been concerned about the trigger of the ImmInt becoming invalid after the ImmInt has been triggered and started.  Never.
That has nothing to do with the conclusions that have been made so far in this thread, and you have done nothing but create a strawman argument.
You have explicitly falsely stated my interpretation and made a false conclusion based on that.

If you choose to continue debating, please refrain from doing that in the future.

Your arguments have have failed to make any changes to the current conclusion.
As I said above, that statement was incomplete. 

"The ally has taken damage from the attack that triggered Mind Spike, but it has not yet been deducted from the ally's hitpoint pool due to the damage being subject to an interrupt."

Bolded for


You have been concerned about the trigger of the interrupt becoming invalid after the interrupt has been triggered and resolved in this entire thread in the concept that Mind Spike's damage would be zero if the target would die from the damage, but then Mind Spike can't trigger, but then the damage isn't zero, but then Mind Spike would trigger, but then the target would die, but then.....

Here's a direct quote, if you're having trouble remembering what you yourself said in the thread:
If the foe were to die by MS, attack is interrupted and he deals no damage for the attack, thus MS is 0 and cannot kill the foe to begin with.


I know it's good Internet form to call "Fallacy" when presented with an argument that directly contradicts a position you believe to be correct, but that is not the case here.  It is not a strawman, and it is an outright lie to claim that it is.  You must not tell lies.


Interrupts create paradoxes.  That's what they do, it's integral to their function.  The presence of a paradox does not mean that the interpretation is wrong.  In fact, searching for a solution that does not involve paradoxes is itself wrong.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Here's a direct quote, if you're having trouble remembering what you yourself said in the thread:
If the foe were to die by MS, attack is interrupted and he deals no damage for the attack, thus MS is 0 and cannot kill the foe to begin with.




Lol, thanks for quoting what I said earlier, it only reinforces the fact that you truly are making a strawman argument.  Mind Spike dealing 0 damage != trigger invalidated.  So you continue your strawman argument, in that your entire paragraph is based on this false statement.

You must not tell lies.


I'm sorry if you are unable to grasp the logic behind my statements