B/R Infect

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I'm pretty new to magic, so don't be too hard on my decisions, but i believe a B/R infect deck might be pretty viable(maybe not in my hands though). Please help me build something out of what i made myself.

9x Swamp
9x Mountain
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Pyroclasm
2x Pyromancer Ascension
4x Grim Affliction
4x Tezzeret's Gambit
4x Virulent Wound
3x Virulent Swipe
4x Dismember
2x Tumble Magnet
2x Livewire Lash
4x Phyrexian Crusader
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2x Plague Stinger
1x Chandra, the Firebrand
There have been a number of other decks like this posted, reading arround would likely help you some.

Specificly for your list I don't think you have enough creatures, expecially fast ones, and tezzeret's gambit and dismember are the only two spells you have that I would want to play though not in those numbers. If you're playing red poison I can't think of any reason not to include Assault strobe and Teetering peaks, and there are much better options available than Grim Affliction and Virulent wound/swipe.

I like B/R poison (even though U/G seems to be doing the best atm) and think that with a bit of work you will be able to make something that works for you.
Would this help?

+4Teetering Peaks
 -1Tezzeret's Gambit
+2Plague Stinger
 -2Virulent Wound
 -1Virulent Swipe 
+3Assault Strobe

And do you have any suggestions for fast creatures? And i have no clue what to replace Grim Affliction with... Thanks for your critisism, i really need someone to point me to my mistakes.
Maybe Razor Swine would do as a fast creature...
In that case in addition to the previous changes I would say:
 -2Grim Affliction
+2Razor Swine

Any thoughts on that?
That is one of the directions i could go with the deck... I would probably drop 2 Lightning bolts for 2 Dismembers, since especially with Pyromancer Ascencion it can destroy any creature.

And do you think that deck would be competative in a FNM enviroment? Once again, I'm pretty new to magic, and i only post my thoughts here.
The thing that bothers me the most in the decklist you posted is the absence of a lot of removal...
Pyroclasm Can be a very good removal card, in combination with Pyromancer Ascension and Phyrexian Crusader.

The thing i liked about the previous decklist i had, was that it could pop a kill out of nowhere, or do you think that's too inconsistant to work in a competative enviroment? I once again would love to hear what others have to say about this.
assault strobe wont help you much. skithiryx will come down for a kill. so you wont have enough mana for both haste and assault strobe. phyrexian crusader cant be buffed by assault strobe. and plague stinger will need a lot of buffs on it to have assault strobe do some serious damage.

and due to the nature of red and black. his toughness will remain at 1. even the useless shock will be enough to bring your stinger down 

You have a good point there... Maybe vampire's bite would work better instead... Or do you have another suggestion? If so, I would love to hear, consider and discuss it.

unless you wanna keep it legal for after october i would recoment virulent swipe. it gives +2/+0 and deathtouch. and also has rebound. therefore making your phyrexian crusader an evil killing machine twice. since it has rebound and deathtouch.

its also a good instant that will make your plague stinger kill a mighty creature of your opponents army. 

That is the card I used in the first decklist i posted for multiple reasons; it a spell to target livewire lash twice, if one is already in the graveyard it fills pyromancer ascension by itself and the afore-mentioned deathtouch. Do you have any more additions to the first decklist i posted? And do you think it is a possiby effective deck to play at FNM? I would play it anyway because I love the way it plays, but I want to know what my chances are, and if i can improve those chances in any way. I want to thank you beforehand.

the bad thing is that black infect doesnt leave a lot of choices to team up with green where all the mighty buffs are. so your options are kind of limited.

vampire bite is a very good option. since you can even use the kicker and get some life if needed.

you can use also mutagenic growth. it will help you with your ascension and its also a good buff for a creature like crusader. +2/+2 at the cost of 2 life though.

infect decks can be competitive. but you have to be aggresive most of the times. or else you will be having some hard situtations to pull your self out of.

Edit no1: also the part that makes it harder for black red infect is that the best creature in phyrexian arsenal has protection from red. where other buffs are located. 

Then i guess I'll have to build it a bit more like aggro... Then, using the first decklist as a guideline I think the following might work;

5x Mountain
4x Teetering Peaks
9x Swamp
4x Dragonskull Summit

4x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Plague Stinger
2x Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon

3x Tezzeret's Gambit
3x Dismember
2x Virulent Swipe
2x Mugatenic Growth
2x Vampire's Bite
2x Pyromancer Ascension
2x Go For the Throat
2x Doom Blade
3x Livewire Lash
3x Volt Charge
2x Virulent Wound
2x Grim Affliction

How would that be?

seems a lot better. post the results i always wanted to make an infect deck thats competitive

I'm on holiday right now, but when i'm back i'll order the singles and start posting results. I forgot to put my new Chandra in... Any idea if or what to cut for it?

chandra will be an overkill. seriously. copying your buffs and targeting a creature with the wire on it will make you win instantly. but there is nothing really that you can cut for her. except maybe ascension ;p

I love overkill ;). I might cut a Plague stinger for her... This deck has awesome sudden-kill potential late-game and I love that. Thanks a lot for your help btw, and maybe you could help me with any probs i might run into while running the deck.

Also pick up as many Inkmoth Nexus as you are able. More expensive but worth it. I still don't like virulent wound or grim affliction. I'd rather have a more powerful removal spell than the wound and just attack across an empty board for the poison counter, and affliction is too pricey. I'd rather have straight up removal or pump spells, those two are just too cute and not nearly as effective as you would like. I'd also want 4 virulent swipes and vampire's bites.

assault strobe isn't for casting on skithiryx, it's for casting on your weenies. In this build having only 4 of them it really wouldn't be as good. Strobe + any 2 pump spells will end any game though. Also, if you want more ways to force damage through (you'd have to pull out some removal for it though) Apostle's Blessing is excelent. Saving your creatures from their removal or forcing through an attacker can both turn the tide.
I like your suggestions quite a lot, but I have no clue what to cut for those cards... Do you have any suggestions on that part? And what lands should i cut for those Inkmoth Nexus's? Thanks in advance.
ok. lets get the follow scenario jaedenen.

you cast assault strobe on your plague stinger.

combat phase.

declare attack with plague stinger.

no response from your opponent.

you cast vampire bite and virulent swipe.

he casts in response go for the throat.

you cast in response apostle's blessing.

result? you just waisted 4 cards to deal 2 poison counters. {blessing. strobe. bite and swipe}
phyrexian crusader cant be protected by apostle's blessing. skithiryx. will have to come down at turn 7 in order to have both haste and a spare mana for protection.

EDIT: just a small edit to explain the waste of 4 cards. casting on top of the stack apostle's blessing you clearly will choose black to save your stinger from go for the throat. thus making your stinger illegal target for bite and swipe.
That is a very good point...

And one more question before i pour my money into this deck; it will most likely still be viable after the October rotation right? Because it is not the very essence of the deck that rotates, or am I wrong?

Yeah, and those are practically only the buff spells. And i could replace Pyromancer Ascension with 2 of the new Candra's (I already have one anyway). and buffs are present in every block and set, so i don't I have to fear rotation .
good buffs unfortunately are located withing the green mana. the bad thing is that green is the enemy colour of black. so we dont have dual lands of that colour. and thats making it really hard

Then post-rotation I could take B/G instead of B/R, or is that advisable anyway?.

To be honest. Green is the pinacle of Buffing spells.

even now you have

Giant Growth =  +3/+3
Titanic Growth = +4/+4
Vines of Vastwood = Hexproof and with kick +4/+4
Mutagenic Growth = +2/+2
Groundswell = +2/+2, landfall = +4/+4
Prey's Vengeance = +2/+2 and rebound
Untamed might costs X and one green = +X/+X
Leeching Bite = +1/+1 for your creature -1/-1 for an opponents creature

As you can see the list is actually descent. for infect to be lethal. the issue is that black doesnt synergise well with green due to the lack of dual lands. you have to be lucky. and fix your mana base so well so you can actually have creatures and the ability to buff them. else you will find yourself in a situation where you will have green buff spells and no green lands. or have buff spells and no creatures to buff  
Then in the end I might very well make the deck worse, not better xD. In that case i think I'll go for the previous decklist, with the addition of the Inkmoth's. Only question that remains; what lands should I cut for the Inkmoth's. That is, if they are actually worth it... The next event I'll be able to attend is the gameday of August 14, so you will be sure to hear results from that :D.
our game day is sealed so i dont know about yours ;p

inkmoth should replace 3 lands of the colour the prevails. and one of the lesser colour 
I am pretty certain our gameday is constructed... And I see about the lands.
inkmoth has a lot of uses! its a must have. you can even protect your single phyrexian crusader on the field from smalpox, geth's verdict. gatekeeper of malakir

I see, I just wondered because this is my second deck, so I'm a little hesitant over such expensive lands.

if you dont wanna buy the whole 4 packet. buy 2 of them. unless you feel that you wont gonna play infect that long
I play infect, and I have to say, after getting the inkmoths my deck suddenly became a lot more competitive. The rest of the deck was chisled down pretty well, so after I added them I starting winning FNMs left and right.
I see, in that case I'll do 4 inkmoths. Atm i'm planning to go infect untill the rotation of october 2012, so yeah, it might very well be worth my cash.
Inkmoths are, of course, fantastic! But I too am building a deck without them.

My black red infect is currently taking quite a different shape from yours (although I haven't had a chance to really try it yet). It's about 90% standard legal after October, which is handy, and the focus is mostly on getting infect damage from places you normally wouldn't expect to get it with red burn abilities.

Things like Goblin Arsonist or Furnace Scamp, and the good old Perilous Myr serve as handy chump blockers. The twist? Give them infect so that their chump blocking damage is "permanent" (the -1/-1 counters) and their death leads to a suprisingly effective chunk of poison counters.

Combine that with Glistening Oil's "downside", and you have Goblin Arsonists and Perilous Myrs that die by themselves and deal a nice few poison counters on their way out.

The Volcanic Dragons are mostly as something meatier if the game takes more turns, and their Haste means you can potentially drop a surprise 4/4 flyer (and give it infect) as a nasty surprise for your opponent.

Lightning Bolt and Flame Slash to finish off creatures with -1/-1 counters on them, and clear the way for weenies.

Creatures (22)
4x Furnace Scamp
4x Goblin Arsonist
4x Plague Stinger
2x Volcanic Dragon
4x Perilous Myr
4x Ichorclaw Myr

Spells (16)
4x Tainted Strike
3x Phyresis
3x Glistening Oil
2x Flame Slash
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Apostle's Blessing

Artifacts (2)
2x Grafted Exoskeleton

Land (20)
9x Mountain
9x Swamp
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
since your running a 6 cost creature. why dont you just include 2 skithiryx instead? after all your based on infect to win
Basically because I don't own any of the bigger infect creatures :P

Aside from the 3x Glistening Oils I've pulled and the 2 dual lands, it's very much a pauper deck.

Edit: Also, dropped 1x Phyresis and 1x Grafted Exoskeleton for 2x Apostle's Blessing - making creatures unblockable with protection is too tempting to pass up! 
The reason Inkmoth's are so expensive is because just about every deck uses them, they are that good. Even if you're playing damage having an inkmoth arround is good incase your opponent gains too much life. So you do want as many as you can afford.

Pete, how has that deck been working for you so far? Just from looking it would appear that you spend too much time and resources on trying to make creatures poison when you'd be better off just playing poison creatures in the first place.

The reason Inkmoth's are so expensive is because just about every deck uses them, they are that good. Even if you're playing damage having an inkmoth arround is good incase your opponent gains too much life. So you do want as many as you can afford.

Pete, how has that deck been working for you so far? Just from looking it would appear that you spend too much time and resources on trying to make creatures poison when you'd be better off just playing poison creatures in the first place.

Exactly my thoughts...
Well, I played an earlier iteration of it once, and dropping 5 poison counters on my opponent in turn 2 (with a Furnace Scamp and Tainted Strike) seemed too good to ignore!

I have been thinking the same thing though, and have dropped the Phyresis for actual black infect creatures. Also swapping out the Volcanic Dragons.

What I've added instead are some cheap black infect creatures (Plague Stinger, Ichor Rats).
I've also added a Flesh-Eater Imp (only own 1, need more!) who can consume Goblin Arsonists or Perilous Myrs. If I've given them infect, great - free infect damage to hand out! If not, their regular damage will kill off some creatures to make way for the pumped Imp and give those Goblins and Myrs double the use in the deck.

Reaper of Sheoldred is replacing the dragons (until I get some nicer infect rares) as their ability seems pretty sweet - if they block or become blocked, free poison counter!

I'm trying to strike a balance - harnessing Red's natural damage dealing / fast burn for infect purposes, without making a deck that constantly relies on 2-card combos to work. Hopefully these tweaks should help - I'll post an updated decklist in a bit.

Need a victim to try it on now...
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