Proposed Fixes for the Assassin (PEACH)

110 posts / 0 new
Last post
I really should be working right now, so I'm going to make this quick, but...

Overall, I love what you've been doing here.  I stumbled on this earlier this week, and it's some very good work that does a lot for an otherwise severely underperforming class.  So want to point that out.  A few things I might disagree with, and I'm hoping to spend some time this evening reading through the new powers you posted yesterday.  All that said, regarding your last post, I've got a quick question.

And I will not under any circumstances make envenom inflict poison damage. Sorry if that came across as mean, but there are just so many things that are immune/resistant to poison that it would severly gimp that build to do so.


Not that I'm fond of feat taxes here, but are there any assassin builds that rely on poison and don't take Venom Hand Master?  (Also, as a sidenote, I can completely understand how Qube is reading it.  It's not how I read the power initially - I think I mentally filled in the gaps to make it work the way you obviously intended - but I think strictly from RAW, he's made a reasonable point.)
Not that I'm fond of feat taxes here, but are there any assassin builds that rely on poison and don't take Venom Hand Master?  (Also, as a sidenote, I can completely understand how Qube is reading it.  It's not how I read the power initially - I think I mentally filled in the gaps to make it work the way you obviously intended - but I think strictly from RAW, he's made a reasonable point.)

Wow. Once again I'm proven wrong by my unthinking brain. In that case it might actually make it stronger to make it poison type. Still, the assassin does seem rather feat-starved to me, although, my version might be less so. I'll have to tackle the wording on envenom some other time, because I have a few things to do around the house, but I'll see what I can do. Also, I've finished all the encounter powers, I just have yet to transform them into power-block form for the forums. I figured that I'd finish the level 9 dailies first and then get them all posted in one fell swoop. ONWARD!

Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Now that I've just about finished the attack powers for heroic, I've started to think up some paragon path ideas. Then I realized. I don't HAVE any ideas. So, suggestions would be great to hear, I'll see if I can't get some fancy new paragon paths for the assassin up, that (hopefully) don't suck. I guess we still have soul thief, but still, come on. We all know that a lot of the reason assassins sucked outside of heroic is because of crappy power selection and nothing-too-special paragon paths. Not to mention Assassin's Shroud's weird scaling. Wouldn't it have just been easier to say 1/2/3d6?
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Let it be known that I pulled that scenario out of my butt.

but it is anecdotical evidence. If you disregard general evidence (which i gave with statistics), you might want to rake that in account. because ... well, what else is there?

I wouldn't call a +1 magic weapon 'fancy' ...




Neither would I

point is, crits are almost never just max damage.

I wasn't aware there was a difference between stacking and increasing ongoing damage

according to the rules ongoing damage of the same type doesn't stack.

And I will not under any circumstances make envenom inflict poison damage.

then envenom is a bad name.

Its like making a grappler who doesn't grapple but dual sword because grapple sucks. the reason might be true, but that doesn't make it good

Then I realized. I don't HAVE any ideas

usuall WotC augements prev powers.


Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html
Signature in a box
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.

3.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint

Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment. Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
Some of my work:
XDMC 19 (silver): A full fledged assassins guild (with stats, skill challenges, ...)link XDMC 14 (Bronze): a one shot campaign for beginning DMs/players. link XDMC 16: Paragon path: the Epitome: being better then all then any one else. link (note: this is balanced) XDMC 25: The Gelatinous Cube mount Guide To Disreality: a collection of houserules - Introduction & table of content
My ego in a box
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
point is, crits are almost never just max damage.

Point taken.

according to the rules ongoing damage of the same type doesn't stack.

Also according to the rules, specific beats general.

then envenom is a bad name.

Not really. While the name might make you think of poison in the conventional sense, it's not. Poison damage implies a physical substance that causes the body damage, something that can either A) be counteracted, or B) removed. I have not once in this game seen anything that inflicts poison damage that doesn't have a direct link to a physical substance of the sort (spider venom, poisoned dagger, etc.). The damage envenom inflicts is not from a physical substance, but what is essentially pure shadow. I have a small backstory for the Needle's Poison guild founders in the pdf (which needs a lot of updating, to fit with current features). Nothing about it is physical. If you want you can think about it as if shadows are latching onto the body and killing it. In real life, if a doctor were to look at a person suffering from this "poison," nothing at all would appear wrong with their body. Except for the fact that they'd be dying, of course.

Now a change of topic. I want to make a feature for a paragon path or epic destiny (most likely epic destiny, given the power involved), that retains the old Death Attack ability of the 3.5 Assassin, which is, quite literally, wait three rounds and then kill your target. Ok, it's a little more complicated than that, but that was the essence of it. I'm not quite sure how to implement it, but I feel confident that the helpless condition will be involved, probably in the form of an encounter power.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
according to the rules ongoing damage of the same type doesn't stack.

Also according to the rules, specific beats general.

true, but have you considered all possible side effects of overriding a general rule?

I have not once in this game seen anything that inflicts poison damage that doesn't have a direct link to a physical substance of the sort (spider venom, poisoned dagger, etc.).

infernal moon curse? (fav spell of one of my players)

either way just as you link poison with physical, you can't deny the link between envenom and poison. Heck, they are almost synonyms.

Needle's Poison  ... Nothing about it is physical.

then ... why (a) Needle and (b) Poison if its a non physical non poison?

but OK, how 'bout necrotic?

 If you want you can think about it as if shadows are latching onto the body and killing it. In real life, if a doctor were to look at a person suffering from this "poison," nothing at all would appear wrong with their body. Except for the fact that they'd be dying, of course.

I'm not quite sure how to implement it, but I feel confident that the helpless condition will be involved, probably in the form of an encounter power.

encounter powers usually last only a turn ... and helpless is one of the strongest status effects ... will be a though to crack

Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html
Signature in a box
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.

3.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint

Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment. Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
Some of my work:
XDMC 19 (silver): A full fledged assassins guild (with stats, skill challenges, ...)link XDMC 14 (Bronze): a one shot campaign for beginning DMs/players. link XDMC 16: Paragon path: the Epitome: being better then all then any one else. link (note: this is balanced) XDMC 25: The Gelatinous Cube mount Guide To Disreality: a collection of houserules - Introduction & table of content
My ego in a box
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
true, but have you considered all possible side effects of overriding a general rule?

Not really, but ongoing damage is only guaranteed for one turn. After that it's about a 50% chance, give or take. Besides, just about every class overrides general rules in some way. Powers that can be used as basic attacks or on a charge, the avenger's oath of enmity. As I understand it, that's one of the fundamental aspects of the game.

then ... why (a) Needle and (b) Poison if its a non physical non poison?

When I said nothing about it is physical, I meant the poison itself, not the what the name of the guild seems to imply. I don't pretend to know the thought process of renegade Revenants.

but OK, how 'bout necrotic?

Huh. That does make thematic sense. Or, how about using both. That way they'd have to have resistance to both necrotic and poison to get it, and, as Terraism mentioned earlier, a poison user would just likely pick up venom hand master. I am rather opposed to feat taxes, especially ones that should blatantly have been part of the feature itself. But, I concede. Poison and necrotic damage.

encounter powers usually last only a turn ... and helpless is one of the strongest status effects ... will be a though to crack

I realize all of this, but it does provide the assassin with one particularly incredible nova per encounter, which it should generally be able to do. And I've decided, this is gonna be tied to an epic destiny, which is gonna be its schtick. There are a few powers that already give out the unconcious condition, like a certain rogue power that many an assassin I know (including myself) multiclassed to get.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Finally got around to putting up the level 7 encounter powers. Read 'em and tell me what you think. That is all.

EDIT: Also reworded Needle's Poison benefit. Again. Hopefully I've got it this time and I won't have to reword it again. 
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
true, but have you considered all possible side effects of overriding a general rule?

Not really, but ongoing damage is only guaranteed for one turn. After that it's about a 50% chance, give or take. Besides, just about every class overrides general rules in some way. Powers that can be used as basic attacks or on a charge, the avenger's oath of enmity. As I understand it, that's one of the fundamental aspects of the game.

have I claimed otherwise? But IIRC the DMG says that you need to wonder if a rule-override is actually nececairy ...

oh, btw, average damage for a ongoing damage is 1.8 times the value. (unless the target gets bonusses/penalties/resistance/vulnerabilities*)

* which become serious broken if ongoing stacks ... (multiple times vulnerability application make O5 x3 with Vul10 = 45 damage/turn)

edit: looks good now
I don't pretend to know the thought process of renegade Revenants.

didn't you invent Needle's Poison? if you don't know, who will?

Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html
Signature in a box
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.

3.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint

Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment. Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
Some of my work:
XDMC 19 (silver): A full fledged assassins guild (with stats, skill challenges, ...)link XDMC 14 (Bronze): a one shot campaign for beginning DMs/players. link XDMC 16: Paragon path: the Epitome: being better then all then any one else. link (note: this is balanced) XDMC 25: The Gelatinous Cube mount Guide To Disreality: a collection of houserules - Introduction & table of content
My ego in a box
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
Ok, so you're saying that Needle's Poison benefit is ok now? Cause that's how I intended it to work. And, (as noted in the first post) my DM came up with the name. I thought it worked well for an assassin's guild that focused on poisoning, or at least the way I imagine it. I grew up on final fantasy, so when I think of poison, I think of ongoing damage.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Ok, so you're saying that Needle's Poison benefit is ok now? Cause that's how I intended it to work.

yep
or at least the way I imagine it. I grew up on final fantasy, so when I think of poison, I think of ongoing damage.

or Diablo, or ... Both fire and poison are in many games ongoing.
Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html
Signature in a box
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.

3.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint

Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment. Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
Some of my work:
XDMC 19 (silver): A full fledged assassins guild (with stats, skill challenges, ...)link XDMC 14 (Bronze): a one shot campaign for beginning DMs/players. link XDMC 16: Paragon path: the Epitome: being better then all then any one else. link (note: this is balanced) XDMC 25: The Gelatinous Cube mount Guide To Disreality: a collection of houserules - Introduction & table of content
My ego in a box
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
One paragon path done, 3-4 more to go. Booyah.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Inexorable shroud only lets you move 2 shrouds if your target dies, not 4, and you can only move shrouds if you have at least 2.  So you aren't just baking it in you are making it more powerful as well.

Personally I think a complete rework isn't really needed.  Consider reading Inexorable Shroud a different, more loose, way and that alone does wonders for the class (even still requiring it to be taken as a feat):
Let it move 2 shrouds even if you invoked your shrouds to kill the creature.

Now you are an assassin.  You have a reason to stack your shrouds and you have a vested interest in getting a killing blow as that just got you two free dice of damage on the next monster.  You will tend to invoke at 2 then if it dies transfer and next turn add one and invoke at 3 that turn.

One thing also to note about assassin is that their at wills are actually quite strong.  One does +1 per shroud which isn't bad, but the other that does +1 per creature next to the target is potentially huge damage if your party is melee heavy or your DM likes to use minions or other monster swarms rather than solitary dragon-type monster.

The two guilds are lackluster but thats the case with other strikers as well (I'm looking at you Avenger).
Inexorable shroud only lets you move 2 shrouds if your target dies, not 4, and you can only move shrouds if you have at least 2.  So you aren't just baking it in you are making it more powerful as well.

Duly noted. But I don't remember saying exactly that I baked in Inexorable Shroud. I remember saying that shrouds should be transferable on death.

Personally I think a complete rework isn't really needed.  Consider reading Inexorable Shroud a different, more loose, way and that alone does wonders for the class (even still requiring it to be taken as a feat):
Let it move 2 shrouds even if you invoked your shrouds to kill the creature.

I disagree. Your suggestion is a decent idea, but Assassin's Shroud did need a lot of work to be comparable with other striker features. I wouldn't mind completely replacing Assassin's Shroud, if we could come up with something that would work better, I would do it.

One thing also to note about assassin is that their at wills are actually quite strong.  One does +1 per shroud which isn't bad, but the other that does +1 per creature next to the target is potentially huge damage if your party is melee heavy or your DM likes to use minions or other monster swarms rather than solitary dragon-type monster.

You think Leaping Shade is good? Wow. That's a first. Never heard that before. Shadow Storm is decent, but the bonus is much more situational than anything else. And what if your DM doesn't like minions, or just loves to throw dragons (or Cthulhu) at you? You get a +16 bonus AT MOST and you most likely won't have that many party members to make it super reliable.

The two guilds are lackluster but thats the case with other strikers as well (I'm looking at you Avenger).

Which is exactly why new ones were needed. The only reliable censure that the avenger got was the censure of unity.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
One thing also to note about assassin is that their at wills are actually quite strong.  One does +1 per shroud which isn't bad, but the other that does +1 per creature next to the target is potentially huge damage if your party is melee heavy or your DM likes to use minions or other monster swarms rather than solitary dragon-type monster.

You think Leaping Shade is good? Wow. That's a first. Never heard that before. Shadow Storm is decent, but the bonus is much more situational than anything else. And what if your DM doesn't like minions, or just loves to throw dragons (or Cthulhu) at you? You get a +16 bonus AT MOST and you most likely won't have that many party members to make it super reliable.

some notes:


  • 16? tarrasque is a 1-on-1 square? in 3rd it was about the size of an x-box.

  • saying that a power is underpowered if a DM does(n't) do something is ... applicable for any power. Lets see how good area or splash spells against solo's ... or element X if the DM likes resist X creatures
    Shadow storm seems a solid power for a assassin geared up to fight groups, especially if he teams up with the defender
    1 defender, 1 assassin, 1 adj enemy = +3 (or +6) bonus, or more depending on situation. This looks equivalent to 'add secondairy stat' powers




Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html
Signature in a box
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.

3.jpg
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint

Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment. Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
Some of my work:
XDMC 19 (silver): A full fledged assassins guild (with stats, skill challenges, ...)link XDMC 14 (Bronze): a one shot campaign for beginning DMs/players. link XDMC 16: Paragon path: the Epitome: being better then all then any one else. link (note: this is balanced) XDMC 25: The Gelatinous Cube mount Guide To Disreality: a collection of houserules - Introduction & table of content
My ego in a box
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
The two guilds are lackluster but thats the case with other strikers as well (I'm looking at you Avenger).

Which is exactly why new ones were needed. The only reliable censure that the avenger got was the censure of unity.


Avenger doesnt need a bonus damage censure...you're missing the entire balance of the class.  Avengers crit almost twice as often as any other class and virtually always hit.  Their bonus damage is consistency and higher crit rate. 

On my avenger it's a rare play night where I miss a single time the entire night...and I dont even have expertise so there is another part of my "bonus damage", saving a feat.  Additionally I never have to bother trying to get CA; I don't really need it; so that saves lots of moves and potentially feats/utilities.  On the rare time I miss my elven reroll saves it.  The other strikers are often bemoaning how their cool encounter power just wiffed and there is nothing they can do short of a daily item (or my channel divinity) to save the attack.

Part of assassin's balance is that their at will attacks naturally do more damage.  One +1 per shroud, another +1 per adjacent person.  If you can average +3 that's basically a 1d6 added to all of your at will attacks and that's not even including night stalker's bonus damage.  They also have shadow step which virtually guarantees combat advantage.  This is another reason they don't have as high of a guild-bonus-damage effect.  They can always get CA so they will always hit a little more reliably.
Shadow storm seems a solid power for a assassin geared up to fight groups, especially if he teams up with the defender
1 defender, 1 assassin, 1 adj enemy = +3 (or +6) bonus, or more depending on situation. This looks equivalent to 'add secondairy stat' powers


It depends on your party.  One of my games has all melee fighters so it's perfect even against a solo creature.  If you have all ranged attackers, sure, it's pretty crap.

All you need to do is average +3 though since +3 is basically 1d6 (+3.5 but still).  Then you are right where a rogue is at +2d6 a round (1 shroud, +3 else) and you dont have to worry about getting CA (though you always can with shadow step).  And if you can get another +3 to 6 from nightstalker even better.

Just a thought for shrouds, I think the problem with the mechanic is two fold, you want something that gives you incentive to stack shrouds, I think the problem with it is that the only benefit you get is by expending the shrouds.   Aim to have the shrouds be something that increases the longer an assassin fights a particular target.  Make them provide a small bonus to each hit and if you choose to expend them a large bonus.  Provide a built in mechanic where if you kill a monster by blowing your shrouds you can shift more shrouds than if a ally kills the monster to a new enemy target, or something along those lines. 

So:
Each shroud on a target provides an single point of damage bonus on attacks/powers against the target. 
If you expend all your shrouds you gain 1d6 damage for the first two, and 1d8 damage for the second two.   This gives incentive to keep your shrouds around for that one big strike that puts down the critter. 

shroud manipulation:  If a monster dies without expending shrouds you can transfer one of them to a new target.   If you put down the monster by expending all your shrouds on a target you can immediately create two on a target monster.  This provides incentive for that big "EXECUTE" strike that requires timing on the part of the player.  In the case of either of these you expend your per round at-will shroud creation to transfer.   

I also personally suggest that teleportation powers include shroud creation, immediately after you teleport to a new target you can choose to throw a shroud on that new target which incentivizes your teleportation to increase damage, this is seperate from the transfer/create. 

In this way you defeat the problem with shrouds being something you want to hold off on but causes a hit to dpr (a stacking +1/2/3 damage per shroud) while the same time you still get the joy of that one big hit (expend for 1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8). 

example:
You start the combat by stacking, you swing in for several turns, the critter becomes bloodied, you think about it and figure that the next big attack you plant into this monster will slaughter it, so you plant your attack, putting down the critter, you transfer two shrouds to your new target.   If you are adjacent to an enemy or a friend you can then spend your move to shadowstep to the new target giving a third shroud.  On your next turn you use your at-will shroud creation mechanic to make a 4th shroud.  Thus you achieved a full stack a single turn after, you can choose to immediately pop that stack for a big hit and gain the benefits for it (and have to spend several rounds working up a new stack of 4) or you can enjoy the slight benefit till its time to kill the target and shift to a new one (again transfer 2/1 and teleport for 1).

Should help with the consistency of the mechanic and to be honest it provides a very combo-like feel to the build.  You can use the encounter/daily abilities to add new spice to these mechanics.  Say you are working with a team who you know is gonna finish off the target before your next turn come up.  Provide an encounter ability to teleport to a new target taking your shrouds with you and perform a hit.  Now you control the flow of your shrouds in the combat without it taking 4 rounds to constantly built up that big damage hit with no benefit.

Interestingly this is the idea behind leaping shade, the difference is that you have a base bonus damage mechanic and you improve shroud generation through transfers and interaction.

16? tarrasque is a 1-on-1 square? in 3rd it was about the size of an x-box.

Right, I forgot to account for larger than 1x1 monsters, but the bonus is still rather situational.

Avenger doesnt need a bonus damage censure...you're missing the entire balance of the class.  Avengers crit almost twice as often as any other class and virtually always hit.  Their bonus damage is consistency and higher crit rate.

When did I say they needed one? I only said that they only got one reliable censure. And, for the record, avengers were tied for last place with warlocks until Painful Oath came around. And I believe that was before the assassin too, which has subpar striker damage, officially.

All you need to do is average +3 though since +3 is basically 1d6 (+3.5 but still).  Then you are right where a rogue is at +2d6 a round (1 shroud, +3 else) and you dont have to worry about getting CA (though you always can with shadow step).  And if you can get another +3 to 6 from nightstalker even better.

You forgot about Sly Flourish, which is most likely their at-will of choice, so another +3 to 6, or Brutal Scoundrel bonus, which is also another +3 to 6, but using both at the same time wouldn't really be optimal. That is, of course, unless you rolled for your stats, in which case those numbers can go straight out the window.

Each shroud on a target provides an single point of damage bonus on attacks/powers against the target.  
If you expend all your shrouds you gain 1d6 damage for the first two, and 1d8 damage for the second two.   This gives incentive to keep your shrouds around for that one big strike that puts down the critter.

I briefly toyed with an idea like that, but I decided against it. It just complicates an already complicated feature. This also makes me wonder if you read the first post, because I believe I gave a big enough reason to build up shrouds using Death Strike (which is written in very large letters). I think crits on 16+ would be enough reason to build up shrouds.

I also personally suggest that teleportation powers include shroud creation, immediately after you teleport to a new target you can choose to throw a shroud on that new target which incentivizes your teleportation to increase damage, this is seperate from the transfer/create.

The problem with adding that on all teleports would be that you could then add 2 shrouds per round, given that you're adjacent to an enemy. Which would gimp Death's Whisper assassins and possibly ranged based Needle's Poison assassins as well.

Should help with the consistency of the mechanic and to be honest it provides a very combo-like feel to the build.  You can use the encounter/daily abilities to add new spice to these mechanics.

I do love how much of a combo-like feel that would give, but I don't want to turn the assassin into a god-killing death machine. That position has been filled by the ranger, and that's the coolest thing he can really do. The assassin can teleport at-will from level 1, go insubstantial every encounter, even outside of combat, should your DM let you. The assassin is possibly one of the most stylish classes to play, but people tend to avoid it like the plague when they hear that it doesn't kill very well. I know I did.

In other news, I think I'm going to toss out the shroud mechanic, or at least change it so much as to be something different. I'm going to keep the whole "build up for death" mechanic behind it, but I think I'm gonna change it from targeting an enemy to targeting yourself, something that was suggested earlier on this thread, and on a different thread, and probably on several others. I'll get back to that later.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
I did read the first post, I just disliked the "deathstrike" mechanic, I look at critical strikes as jaring mortal wounds, where as the current shroud mechanic adds huge amounts of damage which like other forms of striker bonuses are meant to represent hitting weak points.  I think criticals should be one of those things that everyone gets and some build can enjoy but I don't think any class should play off % based luck.  Also no more confusing than the modifier to a crit chance. 

As for teleports for ranged assassins, nothing would be more pleasing, as you could easily teleport among the shadows of your friends and foes.  The difference is really in how you flavor them, their abilities, and how a good assassin can use them.  While I do like the current ranged assassin build at least from what it appears, it is mostly identical to the current cloaked sniper build for rogues, you can shoot and quickly restealth.  I think giving their at-will a built in teleport would make them even more mobile, similar to a rangers current movement (move shoot move) except you would teleport (shroud), damage, teleport (shroud).  Give them extra shroud creation benefits possibly to off-set the fact that their weapon has smaller dice.  Hard enough for an enemy to protect himself from a shadow, let alone a shadow that darts from position to position in the blink of an eye firing off crossbow bolts, sling bullets or chucking daggers from behind enemies that are already assaulting them. 

Mostly just an idea, take it or leave it.   I do like the idea of having shrouds build upon you as a character but you are still retaining that combo-point like build up into a "finisher" that blows your shrouds.  Plus if you follow through on that process then the idea of transfers and such goes out the window.  Also the idea of shrouds itself, Studying a specific foe to kill him, then moving onto the next also shifts drastically. 

In general though I think most people agree, shroud creation feels slow and sluggish, increasing its speed by about 2 turns (transfer on kill + teleport) gives a kind of flow to shroud use that speeds them up.  Again just a thought.  One modification for bleak disciples... they get con bonus in THP, make it con + number of shrouds.  The change would bring them in line with rogue striker condition yet require assassin's to play differently (backloading the damage for the kill to gain the additional benefit vs a rogue keeping the damage up front with sneak attack damage).
I did read the first post, I just disliked the "deathstrike" mechanic, I look at critical strikes as jaring mortal wounds, where as the current shroud mechanic adds huge amounts of damage which like other forms of striker bonuses are meant to represent hitting weak points.  I think criticals should be one of those things that everyone gets and some build can enjoy but I don't think any class should play off % based luck.  Also no more confusing than the modifier to a crit chance.

Try writing 1d6/1d6/1d8/1d8 into the power, then have it scale. You end up with an absurdly long power with tiny text. It's easier to say, look, I crit a lot easier! Of course, I could just add status effects to the number of charges, (I updated the first post) like slowed with 1 charge, dazed with 2 charges, stunned with 3 charges, and helpless with 4. Obviously, that gives very nice incentive to stack the charges, but nothing really damage oriented until you reach 4 charges.

EDIT: I forgot to mention this earlier, but the fact that you're rolling dice means every class is based on luck. Plus, who else could deal jarring mortal wounds as often as an assassin, who knows where to strike, and how to hit it the hardest? I mean there's the barbarian, but he's essentially just a giant meat-wad with an even bigger weapon.

As for teleports for ranged assassins, nothing would be more pleasing, as you could easily teleport among the shadows of your friends and foes.  The difference is really in how you flavor them, their abilities, and how a good assassin can use them.  While I do like the current ranged assassin build at least from what it appears, it is mostly identical to the current cloaked sniper build for rogues, you can shoot and quickly restealth.  I think giving their at-will a built in teleport would make them even more mobile, similar to a rangers current movement (move shoot move) except you would teleport (shroud), damage, teleport (shroud).  Give them extra shroud creation benefits possibly to off-set the fact that their weapon has smaller dice.  Hard enough for an enemy to protect himself from a shadow, let alone a shadow that darts from position to position in the blink of an eye firing off crossbow bolts, sling bullets or chucking daggers from behind enemies that are already assaulting them.

There's a cloaked sniper build for the rogue? Is that a legitimately official build for it, or is it just a type of build someone named? I don't disagree with a ranged assassin loving teleports, expect more encounter/daily powers for that. What I meant, is that allowing that would somewhat gimp the build because they stay far away from melee combat, which more than likely means no creatures for them to use Shadow Step, which I believe to be the assassin's main mode of teleportation.

Mostly just an idea, take it or leave it.   I do like the idea of having shrouds build upon you as a character but you are still retaining that combo-point like build up into a "finisher" that blows your shrouds.  Plus if you follow through on that process then the idea of transfers and such goes out the window.  Also the idea of shrouds itself, Studying a specific foe to kill him, then moving onto the next also shifts drastically.

Ah, a WoW reference. I never liked the idea of studying a foe before one-shotting him, unless you actually could one-shot him, like in 3.5. Look at the executioner, he doesn't study anything, he just goes in and kills something as fast as possible. I would prefer a way to frontload the assassin's extra striker damage without doing more than charging up the second you see an enemy, whether or not combat has started. Although, that's not a bad idea, if your DM lets you.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Sorta, cloaked sniper is a paragon path name, the correct build name is shadowy rogue, they specialize in ranged combat and shoot & stealth tactics.   Refer to martial powers 2 for ideas.
Ah, right, cunning sneak. I was unaware of that paragon path though. The point is, if I've made the Death's Whisper guild really similar, it was completely by accident.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
I've made changes to the guilds. Yet again, play style for the Twilight Hunter is going to change, as I'm having small problems imagining how I want it to play. I imagine them as stalking their prey and jumping from the shadows, delivering a devastating blow and then vanishing again. It makes me think it's gonna end up being a melee version of Death's Whisper. But more, teleporty, I guess. Which means redoing a few powers that I obviously designed for them. Whatever it takes, I guess.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Alright, I came up with a couple of new powers for the Twilight Hunter, namely the at-will and the level 3 encounter power. I've been busy with other stuff lately, so updates may come less often.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Looking at the altered Death Attack, it still looks incredibly potent, though not because of the numbers but because of the "when" on when you invoke it.

You specify that you can choose to release the Death Attack after rolling to hit - great, so you're deciding that they don't waste the damage built up, and there are certainly other striker boosts that work similarly.  HOWEVER, you also get an enlarged crit range when you release it - and since you're releasing it after you've seen the attack roll, you are effectively giving them a choice to just "decide you crit".  Too much, I think. 
Oh my gosh, you're right. In didn't even realize that. I will fix it summarily.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Oh my gosh, you're right. In didn't even realize that. I will fix it summarily.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!
Oh boy. It's been a while. I've just been real busy with real life stuff, all things considered. Anywho, since I know so many people like these new things I've given the assassin, (or at least I'd like to think people do) I will continue to update this. Hopefully. Oh yeah, I did throw in a new paragon path for needle's poison assassins, although it is lacking powers at the moment. Ok, I did it like two weeks ago. Life's caught up to me.
Think the Ossassin sucks? Think again! Check out my attempt at a fix!