7/14/2011 TD: "Play Dismember!"

21 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
OKay, I get the reasoning behind every card in the Mono-Blue Architect deck except the Triskelion.  I mean, I get the obvious synergy with the Proliferate thing going on, but what exactly is it there to kill off that the Contagion Engine doens't already kill?  With the strong poison subtheme, I can't imagin it's there to ping the opponent...it just seems like it clogs the 6-slot for no reason, when a Dismember, another Tezz Gambit, or another blue creature to enable the Architect would fit better.

Anyone?
Seeing the title of Mike Flores column makes me further believe how much of an idiot I think he is. First he was saying how bad Spellskite is, then not a week or two later, the main article is "SPELLSKITE IS SO AWESOME IT WON A TOURNEMANT LOLOLOL"

I am Blue/Black
I am Blue/Black
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator. [Love, Tolerate, Exterminate] I loooove Phyrexian Obliterator. I lurk moar than I post, and I do it from my phone; so if you see a terribly short post or one with little to no caps, that is why. Current decks; BUG Birthing Pod Korlash, Heir to Blackblade (EDH)
As for the top cards list, I definitely miss Chandra, the Firebrand there. I'm not saying this because I love playing red, not even because Chandra is my favorite character. But just check how splashable she is, for 3R. I can imagine quite insane combinations with blue or black, perhaps with both of these colors. Her second ability is definitely worth testing in many different ways. I like cards that make it possible to be that creative.
@Lord_Pokeudead In his defense, Spellskite was actually terrible while papa Jace was in the format, as decks like Twin that cared about it could string together so many bounce effects for 'free'. Spellskite is much, much better now.
OKay, I get the reasoning behind every card in the Mono-Blue Architect deck except the Triskelion.  I mean, I get the obvious synergy with the Proliferate thing going on, but what exactly is it there to kill off that the Contagion Engine doens't already kill?  With the strong poison subtheme, I can't imagin it's there to ping the opponent...it just seems like it clogs the 6-slot for no reason, when a Dismember, another Tezz Gambit, or another blue creature to enable the Architect would fit better.

Anyone?



You can only get the Contagion Engine out once and only on your turn.  Triskelion can kill small creatures during your opponent's turn in response to various effects such as equipping or playing an enchantment on the creature.  It also becomes much bigger as you proliferate.

While the deck can poison an opponent, this deck can use creatures such as Triskelion and Wurmcoil Engine to kill an opponent with damage if poison isn't working or if you get the opportunity.

At least these are the reasons that I have been using Triskelion in my version of the deck that I have been playing since the beginning of Scars of Mirrodin (along with its synergy with Steel Overseer).





IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
Indeed, Triskelion is a very good card, if you have access to something that can charge it up. It was always at its strongest with Mephidross Vampire in Tooth and Nail decks but the proliferate effects make it very very useful again.
As for the top cards list, I definitely miss Chandra, the Firebrand there. I'm not saying this because I love playing red, not even because Chandra is my favorite character. But just check how splashable she is



Splashable doesn't mean top card, or else there should be a lot more artifacts on there.  The consensus I've seen in other places is Garruk is the best of the new planeswalkers, and I'd still hesitate to call him better than those 12.

Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision.

Of course splashable doesn't mean top card but look what Chandra does. Of course, I agree that we won't met her in the meta as often as Ponder or Mana Leak, but I guess that very often still. And in a variety of decks. This is a card you can build your deck around and you still have so many choices. You see where I'm going? Well, maybe Chandra doesn't win a game on her own but she can become an essential part of a combo.
You can only get the Contagion Engine out once and only on your turn.  Triskelion can kill small creatures during your opponent's turn in response to various effects such as equipping or playing an enchantment on the creature.  It also becomes much bigger as you proliferate.



Well, in my experience, if you land Contagion Engine 99% of the time you win, because it's there to deal with weenie decks, and by the time you land CE they should have played out their hand and be left with little or nothing.  You don't really need the extra Trisk shots after that.

While the deck can poison an opponent, this deck can use creatures such as Triskelion and Wurmcoil Engine to kill an opponent with damage if poison isn't working or if you get the opportunity.



But that's why you have the Wurmcoil Engine, which is pretty much just better at killing them in this fashion.  I will admit I didn't think of proliferate turning Trisk into a massive beatstick until I logged off yesterday, but that still feels kind of underwhelming.

I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a solid reason to include another 6-drop here.  I'd almost rather have a Blighted Agent or something.
So Mike says in his article:

"Essentially, you get out Kuldotha Forgemaster, successfully untap with it in play, and figure out how you can win."

 For example, you can get a Blightsteel Colossus and win in one attack. You can get a Mindslaver, and auto-win against anyone with a Spellskite. "


Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but if someone has a Spellskite out, exactly how do you plan to Mindslaver them?  Seems to me they'd pay 2 life and make you control your own next turn.  Plus even if they are dumb enough to let you control their turn, how is that an auto win?  You can't make them pay all their life...it's against the rules isn't it?  I thought these days the rule on paying life was you couldn't pay yourself to death...Plus you gotta have a spell or ability to target you can't just auto-activate the Spellskite.  Maybe I missed a memo somewhere...
So Mike says in his article:

"Essentially, you get out Kuldotha Forgemaster, successfully untap with it in play, and figure out how you can win."

 For example, you can get a Blightsteel Colossus and win in one attack. You can get a Mindslaver, and auto-win against anyone with a Spellskite. "


Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but if someone has a Spellskite out, exactly how do you plan to Mindslaver them?  Seems to me they'd pay 2 life and make you control your own next turn.  Plus even if they are dumb enough to let you control their turn, how is that an auto win?  You can't make them pay all their life...it's against the rules isn't it?  I thought these days the rule on paying life was you couldn't pay yourself to death...Plus you gotta have a spell or ability to target you can't just auto-activate the Spellskite.  Maybe I missed a memo somewhere...

The Spellskite can only change the target of a spell or ability if Spellskite can be a legal target for the spell. Mindslaver can only target players, so you forgemaster up a Mindslaver, control their turn, and have one of you cast a spell or abilty which could target Spellskite and have it redirect it until they die.

I stand corrected on the Spellskite issue...that card has confused me ever since it came out.  So I'm the dummy on that issue.  

Still, isn't there a rule saying you cannot pay life for an ability if it would take you to 0 or less?  Granted I suppose you could make them pay down to 1 or 2 and it's essentially the same thing but still it isn't an "auto-win".   

I stand corrected on the Spellskite issue...that card has confused me ever since it came out.  So I'm the dummy on that issue.  

Still, isn't there a rule saying you cannot pay life for an ability if it would take you to 0 or less?  Granted I suppose you could make them pay down to 1 or 2 and it's essentially the same thing but still it isn't an "auto-win".   



You can't pay more life than you currently have. So for example, if someone only has 1 life, you cannot force them to pay Spellskite's ability with it. If they have 2 life, you're ok.

So practically speaking, if you Mindslaver someone with a Spellskite, you (or the opponent you're controlling) needs to play a spell or ability that can legally target Spellskite, then you can activate Spellskite's retarget ability. If the opponent is at an even life total, you can pay until you kill them; if they're at an odd life total, you can put them to 1.

The Puresteel deck runs Dismember in the board mostly for Deceiver, but it also comes in against Fauna Shaman and Lotus Cobra. While Dispatch is insane, it has a sort of Serra Avenger ability, making it a bad answer for early threats that scream "answer me now!"


So practically speaking, if you Mindslaver someone with a Spellskite, you (or the opponent you're controlling) needs to play a spell or ability that can legally target Spellskite, then you can activate Spellskite's retarget ability. If the opponent is at an even life total, you can pay until you kill them; if they're at an odd life total, you can put them to 1.




This is misleading. Spellskite can target any spell or ability, but it will fizzle if the spell/ability can't be redirected to spellskite. This means you can mindslaver them, put actual anything on the stack, and drain their life total with spellskite if they have one in play.
Two things, I love dismember and I've been picking them up as much as I can since they came out cause I knew they'd be worth way more than a buck some day.


Second thing (perhaps a little more on topic), why is "best cards of m12" relevant?  Isn't a much better question to be asking, "what are the top 12 cards in standard now that m12 is legal?" I'd be far more interested in that list. I'm sure you got it coming sometime in the future Mike. Just eagar to know your thoughts on it. 


(also, as a side note, I'm stoked about manabarbs, but I really can't wait to see how goblin grenade does. That brought me back to my days of playing when I was a kid.)     
The Spellskite can only change the target of a spell or ability if Spellskite can be a legal target for the spell. Mindslaver can only target players, so you forgemaster up a Mindslaver, control their turn, and have one of you cast a spell or abilty which could target Spellskite and have it redirect it until they die.

FTFY.  Any spell or ability is a legal target for Spellskite's activated ability.  If the spell or ability has no targets, or can't target Spellskite, then Spellskite's ability simply does nothing when it resolves.
You can only get the Contagion Engine out once and only on your turn.  Triskelion can kill small creatures during your opponent's turn in response to various effects such as equipping or playing an enchantment on the creature.  It also becomes much bigger as you proliferate.



Well, in my experience, if you land Contagion Engine 99% of the time you win, because it's there to deal with weenie decks, and by the time you land CE they should have played out their hand and be left with little or nothing.  You don't really need the extra Trisk shots after that.



That hasn't been my experience and I have run Contagion Engines for around nine months.  Contagion Engine does allow you to clear the current field of creatures but you still have several turns of proliferating to do before you can actually claim victory.  In those few turns, the opponent could have played several creatures that need to be destroyed immediately.  Triskelion can handle those creatures.  Triskelion can also be used to even things out if you haven't drawn your Contagion Engines yet.  I have simply found Triskelion to be very useful in my deck. 
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
"Early prediction: "the sixth Titan," Wurmcoil Engine—the one with lifelink—gets better relative to in-color Titans... just because Manabarbs exists again."

I'd say Wurmcoil is already better than all of the Titans except for Jolly Green. Lifelink is just so important for Control these days with RedDeckWins being so good right now, that passing up zombie tokens or auto-Mana Leak isn't really that bad a deal. Particularly in UB Control where your gameplan is basically "stop the blood loss with a Wurmcoil before Red kills you".

All that being said... Manabarbs still scares me to death as a Control player. If I manage to stabilize the board without Wurmcoil somehow, and they drop a Barbs... well, I'm screwed. RDW is already a bad match-up for UB Control, and Manabarbs coming in from the SB makes it that much worse.
Good to see some love for humble Birds of ParadiseSmile
Well... as Manabarbs is red, I wouldn't be so sure to call it love... I'd rather call Birds of Paradise just an awesome target for Burst Lightning or whatever... Tongue out