Dungeons & Dragons Essentials "Cairn of the Winter King" Need help DM'n this for my family. SPOILERS

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Hey everyone,

So it says on page 8. "Have the characters make a DC 14 Perception check".

How exactly is this done?

I am looking at one of their Character Sheets and it says "Perception 5".

So, they roll a D20. If they roll a 4, they add the 5 for a total of 9. This means they failed the percpetion roll and notice nothing, correct?
Correct.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Thanks Mell!

So If my NPC is bluffing, lets say he has a Bluff + 3 how do I roll and tell if the bluff is working or the player see's through it?

Charaisma?
So If my NPC is bluffing, lets say he has a Bluff + 3 how do I roll and tell if the bluff is working or the player see's through it?

Charaisma?



The NPC rolls a d20 and adds 3 for his bluff skill. This number is the target for the players Insight check.
Opposed Insight check.
NPC rolls bluff, while the PC rolls insight. If his bluff is equal to? or greater than the insight roll, the PC doesn't gain knowledge that the NPC was lying.

Of course, that still doesn't stop the player himself from thinking the NPC is a liar.
Opposed Insight check.
NPC rolls bluff, while the PC rolls insight. If his bluff is equal to? or greater than the insight roll, the PC doesn't gain knowledge that the NPC was lying.

Of course, that still doesn't stop the player himself from thinking the NPC is a liar.



Exactly, which is where Passive Insight and Passive Perception come into play.

Players are free to roll Perception to notice things, or Insight to get a read on a person any time they want. When the DM calls for one of these checks, it is usually a flashing neon sign behind the DM's head which says, "THERE IS SOMETHING GOING ON HERE!"

If you don't want to tip off the players, use the Passive score, which is 10 + the character's score in that Skill; i.e.; the character above with a Perception of 5 would have a Passive Perception of 15. With the DC of 14 listed above for that Perception check, I would say that it was something that the writers expected the PCs to notice, as the DC falls under or equal to the Passve Perception of any character trained in Perception or any character with a Wisdom of 14 or higher (+2 ability mod + 1/2 of level 4).

As the DM, it is up to you how much information you give away on the Passive DC. You could just let the appropriate characters notice the item and give them the information, or you could tell them that something seems "out of place," which should prompt them to make Perception or Insight rolls on their own.

I never ask my players for an Insight check after I have Bluffed (or Diplomacied, for that matter). I present the NPC's spiel in the NPC's normal voice, and let them decide whether or not to trust that character based on how the NPC has acted previously. If the players have reason to believe the NPC is untrustworthy, they will make Insight checks on their own. If the Bluff is not enough to beat one of their Passive Insights, I will let the player know that something doesn't ring quite true (not necessarily that the NPC is lying, but maybe they aren't getting all of the information the NPC has to offer).

Awesome,

Here is another I just want to be sure of.

Page 13 an NPC has teh ability "Veil"

Effect: The gnome can disguise itself and up to three allies withing 5 squares of it to appear as any small of medium creatures. A creature can see through the the disquise with a succesfuk insight check opposed by the gnomes bluff check.

Now this Gnome has a +13 Bluff, so I'll roll a d20 and add 13.

The Player(s) will roll a D20 and add their insight bonus.

If the player(s) Roll + insight bonus is higher, they see through the illusion. If the Players Roll is lower than mine, than they do NOT see through the illusion.

Correct?

I know these questions are repeptitive and must seem completely stupid, I just want to make sure I got it right and not hold things up during the game by having to look stuff up in a book in the during the play session.

LOL, For some reason typing this stuff out in question form and reading responses helps me understand it.
So when it comes to passive I should be making these rolls for them or prompting them or should this be something the players are actively calling out?

For Example a player should say something like "I am keeping my eye out for anything suspicious" and then I make the passive rolls?

Or if they are getting off track I should use the passive rolls to get them headed back on track?

Or a combination of both?

I have yet to controll an NPC (In the group), one is about to join the group in this next chapter (Knowing these kuckles heads they are probbaly going to kill him) But I think having one in the group will defidently help me "Steer" things.
Correct. The only thing I am not sure on is if the Insight roll must be greater than the bluff. It might also succeed if it is equal to the bluff check. The source of my confusion is that attack rolls hit when greater than or equal to defense, and I'm not exactly sure which is the "attack" in that situation. I assume Bluff is, but I could well be wrong.

That said, if you don't know the exact rule, don't be afraid to wing it. If you aren't sure, some times it's more important to keep the game moving than to be right.
So when it comes to passive I should be making these rolls for them or prompting them or should this be something the players are actively calling out?

For Example a player should say something like "I am keeping my eye out for anything suspicious" and then I make the passive rolls?

Or if they are getting off track I should use the passive rolls to get them headed back on track?

Or a combination of both?

I have yet to controll an NPC (In the group), one is about to join the group in this next chapter (Knowing these kuckles heads they are probbaly going to kill him) But I think having one in the group will defidently help me "Steer" things.



Well, there is no roll when you apply Passive Perception or Passive Insight. The "average" roll of a d20 is 10. A Passive check simply adds 10 to the character's value in the relevant Skill. This represents that adventurers, due to their lifestyle, are usually "on edge," particularly in stressful situations.

Part of the point of it is that you aren't rolling anything, as the DM rolling dice for no discernible reason tips off the players that something is going on.

When I plan out the encounters for a session, I try to make all of the automatic rolls before the game starts. I have the intitiative rolled for every monster I expect the players to encounter in each battle. If one (or more) of the monsters starts the battle hidden, I already know the monster's Stealth roll. I also have index cards on hand for each PC that shows me their defenses, initiative modifier (to break ties in initiative rolls) and passive perception and insight scores. This way, I don't tip my hand by asking what a PCs Passive Perception is when they walk into a room with a Hidden monster. I simply apply that score to the monster's Stealth check. If the Stealth is higher, the monster gets a surprise round, if not, the PC notices the monster and gets to act in the surprise round as well.


OK here is another question for you all.

The Party has a Half Elf 2nd level Paladin.

In my previous experience (AD&D) the Paladin had "Detect Evil". Not sure if it was a spell, ability or something they just had for being a Pally.

I don't see anything on this particular Paladins Character sheet regarding detect evil.

Is it like it used to be? Did they just not Choose it?

Regardless, I like Paladins to have this ability, what would be the most appropriate (DC?) to have them roll to detect evil?

Or as a DM, What should I roll or have them roll to see if they pick up on someone, something, somewhere being "evil"?
OK here is another question for you all.

The Party has a Half Elf 2nd level Paladin.

In my previous experience (AD&D) the Paladin had "Detect Evil". Not sure if it was a spell, ability or something they just had for being a Pally.

I don't see anything on this particular Paladins Character sheet regarding detect evil.

Is it like it used to be? Did they just not Choose it?

Regardless, I like Paladins to have this ability, what would be the most appropriate (DC?) to have them roll to detect evil?

Or as a DM, What should I roll or have them roll to see if they pick up on someone, something, somewhere being "evil"?


Detect Evil is no longer part of the game, alignment having been almost entirely removed from the mechanics and placed firmly in the realm of character description, much like hair color or height. Your paladin will need to judge someone the same way as everyone else. He is free to use the Insight skill to see if he can pick up on a person's emotional status, or to detect treachery, or if the subject is under some kind of influence, etc.
Ever feel like people on these forums can't possibly understand how wrong they are? Feeling trolled? Don't get mad. Report Post.
OK here is another question for you all.

The Party has a Half Elf 2nd level Paladin.

In my previous experience (AD&D) the Paladin had "Detect Evil". Not sure if it was a spell, ability or something they just had for being a Pally.

I don't see anything on this particular Paladins Character sheet regarding detect evil.

Is it like it used to be? Did they just not Choose it?

Regardless, I like Paladins to have this ability, what would be the most appropriate (DC?) to have them roll to detect evil?

Or as a DM, What should I roll or have them roll to see if they pick up on someone, something, somewhere being "evil"?


Detect Evil is no longer part of the game, alignment having been almost entirely removed from the mechanics and placed firmly in the realm of character description, much like hair color or height. Your paladin will need to judge someone the same way as everyone else. He is free to use the Insight skill to see if he can pick up on a person's emotional status, or to detect treachery, or if the subject is under some kind of influence, etc.



I know it may not technichally be a part of the game and rules but I do want it in there.

So in "Today's" D&D you think Insight would be the best DC?

I want it but I don't want to butcher the mechanics of the game or create a monster where this player is just rolling insight every 5 minutes to detect evil.  With that being said, do you think Insight would be a good one to use?
So in "Today's" D&D you think Insight would be the best DC?


Insight would be the best mechanic for it, with the DC being based upon the subject's CHA, with a modifier (say, +5) for it being VERY difficult to see the nature of someone's soul just by looking. Be prepared for all kinds of philosophical issues, if anyone brings up the duality of man.
Ever feel like people on these forums can't possibly understand how wrong they are? Feeling trolled? Don't get mad. Report Post.
So in "Today's" D&D you think Insight would be the best DC?


Insight would be the best mechanic for it, with the DC being based upon the subject's CHA, with a modifier (say, +5) for it being VERY difficult to see the nature of someone's soul just by looking. Be prepared for all kinds of philosophical issues, if anyone brings up the duality of man.



LOL, ok thanks man!

I know it may not technichally be a part of the game and rules but I do want it in there.



Why? What does it add to your game aside from the ability to derail any plot you might come up with that requires a deception on your part?

So in "Today's" D&D you think Insight would be the best DC?



Same as any other time when someone is attempting to conceal their true nature. Bluff vs. Passive Insight unless the player asks to make a roll.

I want it but I don't want to butcher the mechanics of the game or create a monster where this player is just rolling insight every 5 minutes to detect evil.  With that being said, do you think Insight would be a good one to use?



Detect Evil (and many other plot busting abilities) were not carried over into 4E because they butchered the mechanics of the game.

If a Lawful Good Character casts a Heal on an Evil or Lawful Evil character would I apply the heal as a heal or damage?

Or just not apply it at all and say it does no work?
If a Lawful Good Character casts a Heal on an Evil or Lawful Evil character would I apply the heal as a heal or damage?

Or just not apply it at all and say it does no work?

Dude, you just gave me chills with the flashback to old school D&D! 

No, the whole rule about cure spells harming evil creatures and vice versa is gone.  You can heal good guys and bad guys alike with your powers.
-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."
There is very, very, very little mechanical related to alignments (just a class or two that has an alignement as a requirement for some reason, but nothing else), so healing works normally.

If healing ever does not work normally, either the power or the target will have it spelled out for you (so don't assume that undead are damage by a Healing Word: unless it says otherwise in the undead's stat block, they can benefit from it as well).
If a Lawful Good Character casts a Heal on an Evil or Lawful Evil character would I apply the heal as a heal or damage?

Or just not apply it at all and say it does no work?



What does this have to do with "Cairn of the Winter King?"

And the power heals.  Healing powers heal.  That's what they do.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Healing spells are no longer 'reversible,' nor does healing do damage to undead and reversed healing heal undead.  AFAIR, alignment /never/ affected how healing worked on you.  Just being alive or undead.   In 4e, healing is healing, and you can even heal undead.  However, there are lots of attacks that do 'radiant' damage, which is much like 'positive energy' in the olden days, and to which most undead are vulnerable.  IIRC, there's even a feat somewhere that lets a paladin use his Lay on Hands to inflict radiant damage instead of heal...

Want to see the best of 4e included in 5e?  Join the Old Guard of 4e.

5e really needs something like Wrecan's SARN-FU to support "Theatre of the Mind."

"You want The Tooth?  You can't handle The Tooth!"  - Dahlver-Nar.

"If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly"  - E. Gary Gygax

 

 

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If a Lawful Good Character casts a Heal on an Evil or Lawful Evil character would I apply the heal as a heal or damage?

Or just not apply it at all and say it does no work?



What does this have to do with "Cairn of the Winter King?"

And the power heals.  Healing powers heal.  That's what they do.



Oh, the next section has a NPC joining the group and his alignment is marked as "Evil" and the closest thing in the group to a healer is a Lawful Good Paladin.

1st Session went ok, second was a train wreck so I am trying to do as much prep as possible for the third session so I don't lose everyones ineterest and stuff.
You can also use the passive perception/insight check as a kind of radar but still require the actual roll to use the ability.  Like if they come upon a traped area they might sense that something is wrong by beating the DC check with their passive perception and feel the hair on the back of thier neck stand up or feel uneasy about entering the area, then its up to them to roll against the DC to try and find out why.   Also something about the evil NPC should feel wrong somehow to the paladin, but the character won't know if the NPC is trying to lie or hide something from the characters until he actually makes the insight check.

This way you give em clues and don't spoil a good ambush or trap by having a character with a high passive perception or insight just see through everything all the time, whitch either would normally force you to increase the DC to the point that another player would never make the check or the radar guy just walks around making every deception and trap usless.