Sundial of the Infinite

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I have a question about Sundial of the Infinite.  If an opponent has a Fetchland or a Wasteland, if they crack and sacrifice it if I Sundial in response do they still get to fetch a land or wasteland one of my lands?

Thank you in advance. 
I have a question about Sundial of the Infinite.  If an opponent has a Fetchland or a Wasteland, if they crack and sacrifice it if I Sundial in response do they still get to fetch a land or wasteland one of my lands?

Thank you in advance. 


[c]Sundial of the Infinite[/c] -> Sundial of the Infinite

No, when would they get to do that?

Of course, once they see Sundial of the Infinite under your control, they are more likely to do such things on their turn rather than yours.

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

I have a question about Sundial of the Infinite.  If an opponent has a Fetchland or a Wasteland, if they crack and sacrifice it if I Sundial in response do they still get to fetch a land or wasteland one of my lands?

Thank you in advance. 


[c]Sundial of the Infinite[/c] -> Sundial of the Infinite

No, when would they get to do that?

Of course, once they see Sundial of the Infinite under your control, they are more likely to do such things on their turn rather than yours.




Sorry I don't understand your answer.  If they do this during my turn, then yes it would essentially "stifle" it.  If they do it on their turn then obv. I can't do it right?
The fetchlands (and others) have activated abilities, that are not mana abilities. Therefore they use the stack and can be responded to. Such a response can be the activation of your sundial (if it is your turn). Since that goes on top of the stack it will resolve first, ending the turn and exiling all spells and abilities on the stack. The land's ability will never resolve and they cannot fetch a land.

A smart player will not use such abilities during your turn if you have an untapped sundial on the battlefield.
I have a question about Sundial of the Infinite.  If an opponent has a Fetchland or a Wasteland, if they crack and sacrifice it if I Sundial in response do they still get to fetch a land or wasteland one of my lands?

Thank you in advance. 


[c]Sundial of the Infinite[/c] -> Sundial of the Infinite

No, when would they get to do that?

Of course, once they see Sundial of the Infinite under your control, they are more likely to do such things on their turn rather than yours.




Sorry I don't understand your answer.  If they do this during my turn, then yes it would essentially "stifle" it.  If they do it on their turn then obv. I can't do it right?


Yep. Since you can only end your own turn, they would do all this on their turn.
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
I have a question about Sundial of the Infinite.  If an opponent has a Fetchland or a Wasteland, if they crack and sacrifice it if I Sundial in response do they still get to fetch a land or wasteland one of my lands?

Thank you in advance. 


[c]Sundial of the Infinite[/c] -> Sundial of the Infinite

No, when would they get to do that?

Of course, once they see Sundial of the Infinite under your control, they are more likely to do such things on their turn rather than yours.




Sorry I don't understand your answer.  If they do this during my turn, then yes it would essentially "stifle" it.  If they do it on their turn then obv. I can't do it right?


Yep. Since you can only end your own turn, they would do all this on their turn.

I also have a question regarding Sundial.

Supposing I have a Venser, the Sojourner and Sundial of the Infinite on the field.

I summon Glimmerpoint Stag, and use his ability to remove permanent X.

I use Venser's +2 to exile my Stag.

At the end of the turn, two things want to happen: The return of the exiled Glimmerpoint Stag and the return of the exiled permanent X. 

My question is, can I choose to allow the return of the Glimmerpoint Stag (thus exiling permanent Y) to resolve, and then use the Sundial to stop permanent X from returning? Or do both automatically end up on the stack at the same time, forcing me to exile all of it and not allow the Stag to return?
 
You control both triggered abilities, so you choose the order they go on the stack in. You can do what you said. Put Glimmerpoint Stag's triggered ability first (the one that returns permanent X) and Venser's then (the one that return the Stag). Let the first one resolve, then before the second one does, you can respond just like with any other ability. If you use the Sundial at that moment, the Stag will be on the battlefield and permanent X will never return.
You can wait for one trigger to resolve, then activate the sundial (putting it's ability on top of the stack).

So you can have one trigger resolve, and stop the other iwth the sundial.

… and then, the squirrels came.
You control both triggered abilities, so you choose the order they go on the stack in. You can do what you said. Put Glimmerpoint Stag's triggered ability first (the one that returns permanent X) and Venser's then (the one that return the Stag). Let the first one resolve, then before the second one does, you can respond just like with any other ability. If you use the Sundial at that moment, the Stag will be on the battlefield and permanent X will never return.

Interesting...but that leads me to another question.

I have a Mimic Vat imprinted with Glimmerpoint Stag and a Sundial on the field.

I use Vat to make a Stag token and exile permanent X.

At the end of the turn, again, we have two things that want to happen: the return of permanent X and the Stag token getting exiled.

Would it be possible to get both of these effects on the stack and exile them both with Sundial at the end of the turn? 
Interesting...but that leads me to another question.

I have a Mimic Vat imprinted with Glimmerpoint Stag and a Sundial on the field.

I use Vat to make a Stag token and exile permanent X.

At the end of the turn, again, we have two things that want to happen: the return of permanent X and the Stag token getting exiled.

Would it be possible to get both of these effects on the stack and exile them both with Sundial at the end of the turn? 


Sure, why not?  Just activate the ability while both triggers are on the stack.

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

You control both triggered abilities, so you choose the order they go on the stack in. You can do what you said. Put Glimmerpoint Stag's triggered ability first (the one that returns permanent X) and Venser's then (the one that return the Stag). Let the first one resolve, then before the second one does, you can respond just like with any other ability. If you use the Sundial at that moment, the Stag will be on the battlefield and permanent X will never return.

Interesting...but that leads me to another question.

I have a Mimic Vat imprinted with Glimmerpoint Stag and a Sundial on the field.

I use Vat to make a Stag token and exile permanent X.

At the end of the turn, again, we have two things that want to happen: the return of permanent X and the Stag token getting exiled.

Would it be possible to get both of these effects on the stack and exile them both with Sundial at the end of the turn? 


Yes.  You can activate the Sundial whenever you have priority, including when other abilities are on the stack.
 
Interesting...but that leads me to another question.

I have a Mimic Vat imprinted with Glimmerpoint Stag and a Sundial on the field.

I use Vat to make a Stag token and exile permanent X.

At the end of the turn, again, we have two things that want to happen: the return of permanent X and the Stag token getting exiled.

Would it be possible to get both of these effects on the stack and exile them both with Sundial at the end of the turn? 


Sure, why not?  Just activate the ability while both triggers are on the stack.

Cool. I never knew I could insert things on the stack after they'd started resolving. I always thought resolving was a domino effect that couldn't be interrupted once the final step started resolving, like Lightning Bolt > Giant Growth > Counterspell
After an Object on the Stack resolved, the Active Player gets priority (and thus can cast/activate whatever she wants), and both players need to pass priority before the next object resolves.

For example, if I play Bituminous Blast and the Cascade trigger gives me an Inquisition of Kozilek, my Opponent can play a Cancel in response to counter the Inquisition. After all that happens, the original Blast resolves.
[c]Forest[/c] gives you Forest
Here is another question:

I control Venser, the Sojourner, Sundial of the Infinite and I cast Oblivion Ring. When it enters the battlefield, I use it to exile one of your creatures. Then I activate Venser's +2 ability to exile my O-ring, which in turn causes the O-ring's return ability to trigger. In response to this trigger I activate the Sundial, causing the turn to end before you get your creature back (leaving it permanently exiled). So far so good... but what happens to my O-ring? Does it still come back this turn (and exile something new), or do I have to wait until your turn for it to come back (during your end step)?

Any help would be appreciated.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Here is another question:

I control Venser, the Sojourner, Sundial of the Infinite and I cast Oblivion Ring. When it enters the battlefield, I use it to exile one of your creatures. Then I activate Venser's +2 ability to exile my O-ring, which in turn causes the O-ring's return ability to trigger. In response to this trigger I activate the Sundial, causing the turn to end before you get your creature back (leaving it permanently exiled). So far so good... but what happens to my O-ring? Does it still come back this turn (and exile something new), or do I have to wait until your turn for it to come back (during your end step)?

Any help would be appreciated.

~ Tim


Your Oblivion Ring will return at the beginning of the next end step, as scheduled by Venser's ability. Since your end step didn't happen, it will return at the beginning of your opponent's next end step (assuming that doesn't get skipped too), or whatever end step starts next.
Rules Nut Advisor
Here is the rule regarding "end the turn" and "end of turn" triggers


712.3. Even though the turn ends, “at the beginning of the end step” triggered abilities don’t trigger
because the end step is skipped.



The next end step will be your opponent's, and that is when your o-ring will return.

Thanks guys. Alarm bells went off in my head as I was explaining this combo to someone at the FLGS today - and rightly so (I thought the O-ring would come back that turn).

Cheers for the help

~ Tim

I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Since this seems to be some combined sundial thread, I'll try my luck here.

It should be the same problem as mentioned above, but it seems so unreal, I just have to ask:

Can I use Sundial of the Infinite as response to some trigger returning my stolen creatures (eg act of treason) while that trigger is on the stack? Can I keep my opponent's creature forever?
There is no trigger involved with the Act. You keep the creature 'until end of turn', which ends during the cleanup step. Even if you activate the Sundial, you will still have a cleanup step on the turn, so you would still lose control of the creature.

Wizards.Com Boards Net Rep

DCI Level 2 Judge

Questions don't have to make sense, but answers do.

If you used Slave of Bolas instead, your scenario would work. The spell doesn't specify a duration for its effect and its delayed trigger will go off only once. Use the sundial in response to the trigger and you can keep the creature.


603.7b A delayed triggered ability will trigger only once—the next time its trigger event occurs—
unless it has a stated duration, such as “this turn.”

Makes sense! Very much appreciated guys!
712.3. Even though the turn ends, “at the beginning of the end step” triggered abilities don’t trigger
because the end step is skipped.


um Final Fortune + Isochron ScepterSundial of the Infinite  anyone?

Where there's a card, there's a combo.

Here is the rule regarding "end the turn" and "end of turn" triggers


712.3. Even though the turn ends, “at the beginning of the end step” triggered abilities don’t trigger
because the end step is skipped.



The next end step will be your opponent's, and that is when your o-ring will return.


okay, so wait.  When O-ring returns I get to choose another permanent to exile?  Then on my turn again I can rinse and repeat, eventually exiling my opponent's entire board with a single O-Ring, if given enough time and not disrupted?

That is some hard-core shenanegans.
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