Something completely off the wall to argue about

Suppose there were a piece that was basically innocuous -- it didn't have any attacks or effects that caused any damage or inflicted any conditions. But, suppose further that this piece didn't take damage from attacks, didn't suffer from effects or conditions, was never affected by ongoing damage or ongoing effects, could never be rendered inactive, can never be removed from the map, can never be engulfed or swallowed etc., can never be controlled by another player, etc.

In effect, you have an untouchable piece that also can't touch any other piece. Let's also say that it cannot use Magic Items and cannot score victory points (nor does it have any way to prevent a piece from scoring victory points) on victory areas (or via effects that might duplicate such things). And, it cannot benefit from allied champion powers or be affected by enemy champion powers. And, of course, it is unaffected by damage caused by terrain (whether directly or as ongoing). It is, however, affected by things like difficult terrain, walls, pits (though it cannot be Dazed), etc.

Finally, let's say it's unique so that nobody could ever put more than one in a band. 

What faction should it belong to? Why?

How much should it cost? Why?

What level, what keywords, etc.?

If you ask yourself, "Gee, Dave comes up with some pretty weird ideas (even if it's been a while since he's been posting this nonsense), I wonder why he dreamed this up?" The idea popped into my head when I was trying to thing of ways to get the Xen'Drick Champion and the Cleric of Garl Glittergold into Underdark.

To get the ball rolling, here are my answers.

I think it should cost enough to reduce the overall efficacy of the rest of the band. You're paying for a piece that will be guaranteed to be on the map at the end of the game. You're paying for a piece that doesn't do anything, but it still takes an activation every round, giving you a chance to carefully time when you use that empty activation. It shouldn't be a low-cost piece, because it might be too useful. It can't cost too much, because then the rest of that band isn't worth enough to end the game on points without causing problems. I think that since 200 evenly divides by 50, 25, 20, 10, and 5, that it should cost either "more than 50" or "more than 25" or "more than 20", etc. And, since 8 activations is a not-uncommon number of activations, and since "8 x 25 = 200," that 26 points might be good. This puts the level between 6 and 9, inclusive; I'll call it level 8.

As far as keywords, I was thinking maybe Arcane or Divine. And, as far as factions, well, I gave that away in my considerations above, I was thinking Underdark. But, I could see arguments for any of the factions and so I'm curious what you think.

Thanks for playing along.

Dave 
This is basically a free activation then. I remember an earlier thread (Tried?) that asked the same thing. Basically asking what an extra activation would be worth. Some extra for it being guaranteed until end of game. Can't see myself paying more than 13 pts for this. Underdark seems like a good faction (powerful old magic has created a wall of force type of effect by trapping something undead inside, but it can not really affect this world yet, maybe give it a century or two...).
Interesting idea. Maybe some wizard stumbled upon some piece of ancient magic on a scroll or something, and he's sort of disconnected from the world, unable to be harmed by it, but unable to affect it in any meaningful way.

Also, 13 is an interesting cost choice. Now I have to consider the other pieces in that range -- see if I like it. 
This is it? Geez you guys, this used to be a chatty place.
could be used to ensure that a battle was really difficult to win in an hour. Imagine building a low-cost warband that could, guaranteeed, kill at least its own value, say 80pts - then have a piece like this around to ensure that the game continued. First you'd have to kill the 80 and then try to catch up using VPs only. Could be a new variant.
could be used to ensure that a battle was really difficult to win in an hour. Imagine building a low-cost warband that could, guaranteeed, kill at least its own value, say 80pts - then have a piece like this around to ensure that the game continued. First you'd have to kill the 80 and then try to catch up using VPs only. Could be a new variant.



Right.

If I wanted this piece in the meta -

I would be more inclined to design it as an insubstantial. phasing piece with 20HP that regenerates 15 HP every time it is hit but not damaged.  Of course, this piece would then be killable on a critical hit by most creatures, yet not easily or often. (or even without a critical hit by massive creatures),

I'd not likely give it too many other immunities - perhaps immune helpless and immune stunned. 

One could give it an weakish (+10?) attack that did no damage, but imparted a condition.

The first such piece designed would almost certainly be a unique.

I know how I'd cost it. 

What are your thoughts?





An unkillable piece could be useful as a blocker. On a suitable map that could really hinder opponents
(non-flying) huge and large pieces in particular.
A piece practically only killable by criticals (or silver long swords/magic missiles) would be
more of a risk to play but might still be viable.

Behirs and such are not too much played now, I don't know if there is a call
for cheap piece that further reduces their usability.
Can't say about point cost, for one thing I'd like to see how the game reshapes itself to new rules first.
Certainly I would not cost it lower than 13 that was mentioned

 
Something like:

Can only be attacked by Basic (M) attacks.
Can only be hit by critical hit. If the hit is not a critical, the attacker takes damage instead.
Immune Stunned, Helpless
Move: -
Replace "Move action": Teleport adjacent to an Arcane creature
And, why not: Arcane Bodyguard

A kind of Magical Statue: c/u  Construct-Arcane
I'm liking both the insubstantial and the statue idea. The statue one is kinda obvious; and sometimes obvious is good. Insubstantial is okay--who is going to waste an auto-crit from an important piece like a Skullcleave Warrior on a chump?

I also like the idea of a piece that really doesn't take much damage except on a critical, or one that is rather unphased by non-melee attacks.

I don't like the idea of the piece forcing matches to go to a full hour; but, making a game a little harder to win quickly might be nice.

I like where you're going with it Tried: rather than my initial outburst, which breaks too much all at once, giving the piece an attack that at least imparted a condition, even if it's unlikely to hit, and making the piece capable of being of being eliminated (even if it's tough to do), both fit more within the context of the game generally.
 
An unkillable piece could be useful as a blocker. On a suitable map that could really hinder opponents

Ah yes, this could be a serious problem. Another reason for making the piece unique, and probably also for making sure it is Medium or smaller in size. I suppose, rather than making it unkillable, it should be really hard to kill (as per the idea of criticals, above). However, even requiring criticals is too much for a piece that might serve as an effective blocker to protect, for example, an archer or something. We don't want to end up with an undefeatable synergy.

Maybe the piece's super-defensiveness also offers some kind of hindrance to its allies? Maybe it cannot have adjacent allies. Or worse.  Domineering is a nice way to prevent certain champions from having other champions. Maybe this piece could have some trait that would otherwise make it somewhat undesireable. Don't want it to be too undesireable though. The idea isn't to make it a piece that there's never any desire to play.

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