help with a psion?

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hey guys, i recently started a campaign in a homebrew world and i wanted to play a psion. i am having a little trouble figuring out how im going to build him as there are no psionics in this world. im looking to surprise my DM with how good my build is because he doesnt think i know the game very well :P  so far the only restrictions hes put on me are that i cant take levels in Thrallherd.  id like to be useful outside of combat but id also like to be able to deal good damage in combat.  most of the forums have mentioned the slayer class and it LOOKS good except its really geared towards psionic combat, and theres no psionics in this world.  i havent been able to find any guides about building a psion in a non-psionic world so thats why i asked. any ideas? also is this in the right section of the forum?
Setting aside that "surprise the DM" with a powerful build is NEVER a good idea, especially if that build is using a book the DM either doesn't allow or isn't familiar with (seriously, it's not only a bad idea, it's because of behaviour like this that psionics has such a bad stigma, despite being quite probably the best spellcasting system in 3.5! Don't make this any harder than it already is!), we'll see what we can do.


Psionic combat does not exist in 3.5. Since the DM has banned the Thrallherd (a 3.5-exclusive class), that's the book he's using. The reason people suggest slayer is because it's full base attack and (nearly) full manifesting, and is relatively easy to qualify for. Generally people enter it as an Egoist, since they have the most to gain from it (they have stronger manifesting than the psychic warrior and a comparable power list of buffs, plus the ZOMGBROKEN Metamorphosis).

You're in the right section, but without more information to go on - point buy, starting level, other party members, your specific goal, allowed books, applicable houserules, and so on - all we can do is direct you to some of the psion resources. The 3.5 Psionics FAQ is a good place to start if you're just learning the system. The Buildguide and Compendium is a good resource as well. If your DM doesn't know the rules, I have an archived copy of the New DM/Player's Guide to Psionics that I can re-upload.

In YOUR case, though, what you gain from this board is really based off of what you put in. If you come here with a character plan, we can help more. 

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

Sorry I'm new to posting this stuff :P also to explain the "mess with the DM" comment, the DM is one of my best friends and he'd laugh about it too. But I don't really want anything broken or really op lol. Ok for books were not actually playing 3.5 were playing pathfinder, so the books I'm using for psionics is Psionics Unleashed. I either have to be a human or an elan because of the type of campaign, and also our DM does know what he's doing, he's just not extremely farmiliar with psionics. Starting level is 2. Other part members are not extremely experienced but they are playing a monk, a druid, a ranger, a rogue, a cleric, and a fighter. Only real house rule is we have a feat that allows us to once per session turn any roll into a 20. Also that guide to psionics would be really helpful, thanks :D I don't really have any more of a gameplan then I mentioned below though. If there's anything else I can put forward that can help just ask, and thanks again!
Sorry I'm new to posting this stuff :P also to explain the "mess with the DM" comment, the DM is one of my best friends and he'd laugh about it too. But I don't really want anything broken or really op lol.


It's still a bad idea, even among friends, because that's not the expectation of a player. Still, a useful character can be a pleasant surprise, so we'll run with that.
 
Ok for books were not actually playing 3.5 were playing pathfinder, so the books I'm using for psionics is Psionics Unleashed.


...You're actually in luck. The authors of those threads I sent in my last post? Bacris and myself? He's Jeremy Smith (who, between him and Andreas, basically are Dreamscarred Press), and I'm Brian Dupuis (lead author on their first book, Untapped Potential, and the guy who basically drew together the original batch of Dreamscarred collaborators). My involvement with them has been minimal to nonexistent since thendue to academic concerns, but I'm still extremely proud to have had a role getting things started. Although my experience with Pathfinder is limited, I can probably answer some developer or behind-the-scenes questions (at least so far as my experience can provide) if you or your DM ask.
 
I either have to be a human or an elan because of the type of campaign, and also our DM does know what he's doing, he's just not extremely farmiliar with psionics.


Good to know. The PF elan is amazing (Psionic Aptitude plus the human's variable +2 is jaw-dropping), and should probably be the main reason you consider the race (the racial activated abilities are more as emergency bailouts than as selling points). The big comparison is the bonus feat.
Starting level is 2. Other part members are not extremely experienced but they are playing a monk, a druid, a ranger, a rogue, a cleric, and a fighter.


Huge group, and you've already got a cleric (unusually good at buffing, especially himself) and a druid (like the cleric, but also comes with an animal companion and wild shape), so you've got party support taken care of. I'd suggest a telepath or a seer - focus on social control as a telepath, or information gathering as a seer. Pick up a small number of blasting powers for support. Kineticist is an alternative - psionic blasting is actually pretty decent, as far as blasting goes, and kineticists go a long way to making that the case - but in general it wouldn't feel quite as psionic.
Only real house rule is we have a feat that allows us to once per session turn any roll into a 20. Also that guide to psionics would be really helpful, thanks :D I don't really have any more of a gameplan then I mentioned below though. If there's anything else I can put forward that can help just ask, and thanks again!


In order to help more, we really, really need a character. We don't build your characters here, just improve them.

In addition to the above links, though, here's an overview of what changed between 3.5 and pathfinder psionics. It should help in adapting the build guide above to work with Psionics Unleashed (and he's updating it to account for the SRD release of Unleashed).

Weekly Optimization Series

Show
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style))

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

[RT] Something for Everyone: A.K.A. The Last Sorcerer RT Will Ever Build (Caster, Damage, Trapscout, Takedowns)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

3.5: Definitive Shopping List (gear guide PDF)

 

5e Eberron homebrew rules (PDF) (Artificer, Warforged, Changeling, Kalashtar, Shifter, Dragonmarks) | Discussion thread

...You're actually in luck. The authors of those threads I sent in my last post? Bacris and myself? He's Jeremy Smith (who, between him and Andreas, basically are Dreamscarred Press), and I'm Brian Dupuis (lead author on their first book, Untapped Potential, and the guy who basically drew together the original batch of Dreamscarred collaborators).

Well.. looks like i did hit the jackpot XD thanks a ton for helping me though haha i feel like my character is in safe hands
In order to help more, we really, really need a character. We don't build your characters here, just improve them.

unfortunately, im on vacation right now and left my current character sheet at home, but ill try to do what i can.  because my character started out in the local militia, i have been given proficiency with medium armor and martial weapons, although the DM may take that away from me later in the game.  I am an Elan with 2 levels in psion.  the reason i didnt really give stats like this before is because i built this character horribly and the DM is allowing me to re-build him since weve only had one session so far, but ill give u the current stats i can remember anyway.  my current known powers are Disable, Force screen, Missive, Prescience offensive, and Burst.  i currently have him being a nomad but i dont think i like that discipline so im thinking about switching to one of the other ones, although i dont know which one.  I unfortunately do not remember my skills or Feats at this time, however i will post those as soon as i get home.
The reason people suggest slayer is because it's full base attack and (nearly) full manifesting, and is relatively easy to qualify for

that sounds good to me, but the only problem is it seems extremely geared towards fighting psionic creatures, but were running a non-psionic campaign and im not sure how to make that work

Hope that helped, i probably forgot something so im sorry about the missing info.
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