Ancient Depths and New Frontiers

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New Frontiers

Has anyone else tried this card?

A friend and I have been playing 2HG and running both copies of Frontiers in both our decks. It's tricky to evaluate how games would have gone if we hadn't played the spell when we had, or to tell how much of an advantage we gave our opponents.

It depends on the matchup, of course- against the 2 decks that can draw cards (mirror match and mono blue) Frontiers is pretty awful, but against most decks like vampires, red, equipment, etc., we can do a lot more with the mana than they can.

Does anyone else have experience with this outrageously game-changing spell?

(oh, and I'm assuming this card is borderline suicidally bad in 1v1, but correct me if I'm wrong.)
For reference, we're using the deck configured like this:

2 new frontiers
4 coiling oracle
4 explore
1 treasure hunt
3 cultivate
1 compulsive research
1 elvish piper
2 ondu giant
1 rite of replication
2 skyshroud claim
3 aether mutation
1 mind control
2 tidings
1 primeval titan
1 isleback spawn/tidal kraken (we disagree about which to run. shroud>>>evasion)
2 simic sky swallower
1 lorthos, the tidemaker
1 yavimaya's embrace
1 inkwell leviathan
1 kozilek, butcher of truth
1 ulamog, the infinite gyre

24 lands

Also pondering Edric; he only seems good with saprolings though.
You're absolutely right that New Frontiers is an awful card to include in a 1v1 build, but in 2x Ancient Depths in 2HG it's a no-brainer. Usually AD loses because it doesn't get enough out enough defense in the early game and by the time a bomb drops you have 5 or less life, but New Frontiers effectively accelerates the action to a turn where AD has the advantage. A perfect example of a not-so-good card becoming a viable option in its ideal setting.
The thing that most worries me is drawing it against mirror ancient depths and/or mono blue.

Mono blue with 12+ lands terrifies me.
Haven't tried it in 2HG, but even there I don't know how I feel about it. The idea of giving my opponent anything at all be it mana, or cards to draw just doesn't sit well with me. Giving a mono red with bane fire in their hand 17 mana is just not a good idea in any mode, and all that mana won't mean **** if the blue deck has 4 counters in his hand, then theres the fact that giving your opponents more mana makes your eldrazi less terrifying since they can just sacrifice that instead. Overall I just don't like the card.
I agree with jakdripr, i don't really like any card that helps out my opponent. I haven't played with it but i've played a couple of 4-player games where other players were using it and one of those times it handed me the match. So no overall i don't like it, maybe use it in 2HG but i haven't played that mode yet so i can't really comment on it.
It's a card to use during archenemy. The archenemy usually draws so much land from scheme cards that playing this will render some of the scheme cards useless, or if played later mean that the archenemy gets little benefit from it.  Meanwhile, your team gets 3 times the effect of the card, could be useful if your 2 allies have blaze (or equivalent) and now have all their lands in play...

Robvalue: Copy target bug or glitch. You may choose a new card for the copy...

Will never buy games made by Arena Net again.

Will not buy Duel 2015 until 2HG reinstated.

 

Grei wrote:

Orc_Welfin wrote:
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Nice to know removing content is a company wide policy.
At max power it's a fab casual card IF you have card advantage and play it right. Essentially you should be able to vastly reduce the odds of you drawing land by putting yourself at about 18 (from probably 12 or so).

In competitive I'd never fetch more than my max mana cost for the deck so I'd be benefitting the opponents less, but it's still going to fix anyone you play against's mana perfectly for the rest of that game.  If there were landfall cards involved though then this'd be a different story, but as it stands I guess it's for teamwork and fun casual play.

There's an idea actually, 2HG with Frontiers & Garruk and a few Grazing Gladehart out...
At max power it's a fab casual card IF you have card advantage and play it right. Essentially you should be able to vastly reduce the odds of you drawing land by putting yourself at about 18 (from probably 12 or so).

In competitive I'd never fetch more than my max mana cost for the deck so I'd be benefitting the opponents less, but it's still going to fix anyone you play against's mana perfectly for the rest of that game.  If there were landfall cards involved though then this'd be a different story, but as it stands I guess it's for teamwork and fun casual play.

There's an idea actually, 2HG with Frontiers & Garruk and a few Grazing Gladehart out...



Or in 2HG when your teammate is playing Jace's deck if he has the one and only Time Warp in his hand.  My friend and I have actually done this and it works out beautifully.  Laughing
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I'd never take New Frontiers in any format. If you want to remove most of the land in your deck, kick Rite of Replicate on your Primeval Titan. 6 6/6 Tramplers in the bag, too.

Also, I'd start thinking about playing different decks, by playing the same deck as your partner, you break rule number 1 of Two Headed Giant format, no more than 4 copies of any card except basic land, so I'm guessing they'll change it in future patches by either forcing different decks, ala DoTP '09, or, if smart, checking the cards in each deck an not allowing you to start the match if it's illegal.
not to mention playing dual AD is pretty pointless seeing as how a good majority of the "bombs" in that deck are legendary.
I have an impression that New Frontiers eliminates the only advantage AD has got - crazy manabase, making the deck even weaker than it already is.
I never run it in 1vs1, and would not run it in 2HG either. Other decks use their lands much more efficiently, and giving them several lands early in the game could possibly lead to some spectacular blowouts. In one game AD used it in midgame, I got like 5 lands, answered with Wheel of Fortune, and just unloaded my handful of damage cards right to their face, brindging them from 25 to zero.
I know that whenever my opponent plays that card, it makes me happy... that's not the reaction you want when you play a card.
I'd consider running it in Archenemy. Ramping your entire team might benefit your team more than it does the Archenemy. Although, it reminds me of all the scheme cards that require "pay X" which could really hurt if you ramp too much with New Frontiers.

Running the card in 2HG doesn't seem too bad if you have a decent team setup. Ancient Depths paired with Apex Predators looks fun. Maybe Ancient Depths and Realm of Illusion? I think playing with decks that can dig/draw into their decks is the best team pairing if you run New Frontiers. Could backfire though if your opponent's are holding onto bombs.

The next decent place to run it seems like 3/4-player if you want to be a "nice guy". Except everyone hates on Ancients Depths so they will "thank" you by smashing your face in with all that new land you gave them.

In 1v1, it's absolutely horrible. You're basically ruining a lot of the ramp advantage you had in the first place.

In general, this card just seems really risky to ever include. It seems like for the few applications it looks really powerful, there are a bunch of reasons why not to run it. I think I like it best in Archenemy and always paying 1-2 for X, but never anything really over that.
Had it played 3 times against me (elves) today, twice while I was running out of time for a bomb to drip. each led into an immediate victory for me.
I could only really see it used 'semi-competitively' when teamed with illusion for the time warp card, so that instead of your opponents benefitting first, you do. Or archenemy if you see your allies are in a bind with lands.

Robvalue: Copy target bug or glitch. You may choose a new card for the copy...

Will never buy games made by Arena Net again.

Will not buy Duel 2015 until 2HG reinstated.

 

Grei wrote:

Orc_Welfin wrote:
 I've removed content from this thread. 


Nice to know removing content is a company wide policy.
game changers for kioras deck are bad. kioras deck is horrendously broken so changing the paramaters of the game just adds variables that your faceroll deck cant account for. it has the best mana ramping, the best creatures and the best counters in the game, as well as the ability to play them all faster then anyone else. why would you need to waste mana on something that isnt an overpowered eldrazi that dosent fit the theme of ancient depths.
game changers for kioras deck are bad. kioras deck is horrendously broken so changing the paramaters of the game just adds variables that your faceroll deck cant account for. it has the best mana ramping, the best creatures and the best counters in the game, as well as the ability to play them all faster then anyone else. why would you need to waste mana on something that isnt an overpowered eldrazi that dosent fit the theme of ancient depths.


Broken...? You really think so..?
The "best creatures" doesn't necessarily equal the most "expensive and tough" creatures.

When you play against this deck, be aggressive and try to kill any early defense he might try to settle.
That's my best advice.

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Personally I think that gideon's avenger is the best card because it is so versatile.

I can attack with it and the enemy (AI at least) is pretty much guaranteed to want to kill it. This allows the use of infiltration lens to draw through a large portion of your deck if it has had a few +1/+1 counters added. I can not attack and make the enemy not want to attack simply because it will be getting buffed by any attackers and then be able to kill any of the enemies fatties. And it makes great use of lawkeepers and hookmasters.

And for only 1ww. 

Robvalue: Copy target bug or glitch. You may choose a new card for the copy...

Will never buy games made by Arena Net again.

Will not buy Duel 2015 until 2HG reinstated.

 

Grei wrote:

Orc_Welfin wrote:
 I've removed content from this thread. 


Nice to know removing content is a company wide policy.
There are some really terrible cards in 1v1 like New Frontiers, Prosperity, Archangel of Strife, Rites of Flourishing, Hunted Wumpus, and Repay in Kind that are just so epic and amazing in Archenemy. Pretty sure that is the whole purpose of these cards in this game.
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