Neverwinter Campaign Setting? Really?

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Preface apology: I know you're all working hard on the game, and you don't need me bitching and whining, so I'm sorry I felt like I had to do this. Also sorry if there's already a thread like this here, didn't want to go digging as there wasn't one on the first page.

But c'mon, a Neverwinter Campaign Setting?

I remember reading an article, I think it might've been a Rule of Three, a couple months back that said there were new campaign offerings in the works: both adaptations of older lines, like Dark Sun was, with one later this year and, if all went well, another next year. Excited I started wondering what they'd adapt or build on to make these campaign settings.

And then today I noticed the game day announcement. And what it was pushing.

We already have a campaign setting for Neverwinter. It's called Forgotten Realms, you may have heard of it. Well of course you've heard of it the blurb for the Neverwinter Camapign Setting itself mentions it... This book could have been a location supplement, heck a "Heroes of Neverwinter" idea would have worked, but instead it's labelled a full-on campaign. Likely because it's been said that they want to avoid specialized splatbooks and this is a sort of loophole; overdevelop an area which featured in a bunch of the novels, add in more details and specialized feats and builds, and sell it as a full campaign.

Gloomwrought would have been an easier sell as a campaign setting.

With all of the potential worlds from the past to use, and all of the potential future content that could be developed and created, a sub-section of an existing campaign world was chosen. Again, I'm sorry, but it just smacks of laziness, of a need to do as much tie-in with the popular novels as possible. And a bit of what bothers me the most about this is that the last campaign offering, Dark Sun, was a good piece of work offering something new, varied and interesting to the game while still being tied to the game's roots. Even the newer books, Heroes of Shadow and the Essentials line, seemed to speak of a kind of fresh start in mechanics while finally detailing those parts of the game and cosmos which had next to nothing about them. Or at the very least explaining it all in a clear fashion.

TLDR: really disappointed that Neverwinter is a campaign setting when it already existed and there were so many other options and possibilities.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards." ~ yesnomu "Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless." ~ SanityFaerie
Wasn't the FR setting original 4e? Maybe this is with the Essentials line in mind and will feature updated ("Essentials/ Design going forward/ 4.5") monster statistics. I don't know how and if the balance between player characters and monsters has changed since the new design/ edition. Otherwise, I can only guess that Neverwinter is going to be the setting for the new Legend of Drizzt books - and as such it may have FR fans wanting more detail of this region than in the FR Campaign Setting.
Gloomwrought would have been an easier sell as a campaign setting.


Uhh... Well, they did pretty much 'sell' Gloomwrought as that. Both the Neverwinter book and the main book in the Gloomwrought box are titled 'Campaign Guide' (i.e. those two books are meant to be comparable resources within their respective 'settings'). So, why complain about one and not the other? There's nothing intrinsically wrong with products that provide more detail about specific parts of existing settings. You're right that the 'campaign setting' for the Neverwinter book is 'Forgotten Realms', just as the 'campaign setting' for the Gloomwrought book is PoLand/Nentir Vale/Fallen Nerath (whetever you choose to call the core 'default' 4e setting). But neither book claims to be a completely self-contained 'Campaign Setting'. Both books say 'Campaign Guide' on their covers.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Also keep in mind that Neverwinter is one of the biggest and widely known areas of the Forgotten Realms. It's spawned 1 novel and 3 video games and is set in one of the most iconic campaign worlds of D&D. Also take note that the books says Campagin Guide (setting was used on the Web-site) so it's not a setting in and of it's own right.

The book is pretty much set up so you can run a fully-fledged heroic tier campaign within the city. I'm sure it also goes into the surrounding areas of Neverwinter, such as the Neverwinter Wood, Mount Hotenow, and possibly Port Llast, Luskan, and the areas covered in the video games. And frankly, they'd be stupid NOT to tie in a campaign guide with the other releases of a Neverwinter-based Drizzt novel AND the 3rd installment of the video game franchise.

In addition to all of that, it's also the source where they're going to release the new Bladesinger class. This, I think, will help intice others not comfortable with the Forgotten Realms to still pick up the book for that reason alone plus placing the city of Neverwinter into any campaign setting they see fit.

As for the potential use of old worlds...like what? Dragonlance? Sorry but I think that boat has sailed for the final trip during the War of Souls trilogy. I've read DL for a long, long, time and even I couldn't get into it as a sustained novel line nor as a D&D Campaign Setting. Since I have practically no information on Planescape (or the one that dealt with the the City of Sigil) I can't really comment on it, but I think they touched on this area with the 4E Manual of the Planes book right?
The "1/year Campaign Setting" that was planned for 2011 was Ravenloft, but it was canceled, with elements of it being moved into Heroes of Shadow and Gloomwrought.  Neverwinter is not a new campaign setting, it's a FR supplement.
It's actually good marketing. It's supposed to be released alongside the Neverwinter video game and the new Salvatore books.
TLDR: really disappointed that Neverwinter is a campaign setting when it already existed and there were so many other options and possibilities.



Agreed.  No one at our table is talking about this book and certainly no one plans to buy it.  If it had been a PoL book (or boxed set), I think some of us would have bought it.  Our group might be an outlier though because no one plays Living Forgotten Realms, which may be the target demographic.  Video game & novel tie-ins make sense as well, I suppose.

  We'll have to see how well this book sells to pass final judgement, but I'm still waiting to buy a single 2011 release.   

Agreed with everybody who's asking why Neverwinter.

I mean, don't get me wrong, i acknowledge that it's brilliant marketing on Wizard's behalf, what with the upcoming games from Atari. Of course, any real success depends on Atari and Cryptic not releasing a crappy game, and.....well, not much hope there. I'm thinking that the Facebook Heroes of Neverwinter may see more success than the Neverwinter MMO.

But, as others have said, Neverwinter is in the Forgettable Realms, and thus, is already covered. Now, if they were to expand that and offer some expansions for all the other campaign settings, I'd be completely cool with it! Unfortunately, so far that does not seem to be the case. 

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
This may be an experiment to see if they can bring back the 2E and 3E days of setting-specific supplements, or if the people crying out for their return aren't as interested in them as they've claimed.

There are SO freaking many books and boxed sets for specific areas in 2E and 3E. So, you know, this may be actually responding to customer feedback.
Fire Blog Control, Change, and Chaos: The Elemental Power Source Elemental Heroes Example Classes Xaosmith Exulter Chaos Bringer Director Elemental Heroes: Looking Back - Class and Story Elemental Heroes: Complete Class Beta - The Xaosmith (January 16, 2012) Elemental Heroes: Complete Class Beta - The Harbinger (May 16, 2012) Check out my Elemental Heroes blog series and help me develop four unique elemental classes.
Fair enough about Gloomwrought and Neverwinter being Campaign Guides I didn't notice that bit and I'm sorry about it.

I also may be jumping the gun on things regarding Neverwinter being the "campaign"; reading Rule of Three 6/13/2011: "We’ll be touching on a semi-obscure but flavorful setting this fall, and depending on how that goes we’ll look at extending that to a better known one." Additionally it's noted that this will happen in Dragon and Dungeon, so yes no actual campaign setting this year it seems.

Ravenloft being cancelled and instead made into a board game as well as Heroes of Shadow and Gloomwrought is a different issue so I'm not really going to discuss it...

I'm not denying that it's good marketing, I just question if it's good design or really something the game needs. There are *many* settings to consider (among them Planescape, which did get a brief almost-treatment in Manual of the Planes, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, Ravenloft itself though that seems to have died, Mystara mostly for Hollow World -- to name a few with elements that are not represented much in 4e). Heck, while we're talking about sub-settings in FR there's the nearly undeveloped areas of Maztica and Kara-Tur, each of which would offer plenty of new content and ideas for campaigns as a similar sub-setting doesn't really exist in 4e.

And as for including Bladesinger I think it's pretty telling when a single class being in the book is the tipping point on the buy/not buy scale. That said it's kinda irrelevant with DDI and the CB available -- why buy a book for a class when all of its resources are already covered by your subscription?

And I do have to say that if this was actually the start of a pattern of expanding on the dark corners of many settings I'd feel slightly more okay with it, but I don't think that's going to happen for the simple reason that all of the marketing tie-ins don't exist for those settings and regions. Plus that's really what the relevant articles in Dungeon are for, so a full book on a region seems expensive and needless.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards." ~ yesnomu "Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless." ~ SanityFaerie
WotC's going to respond to whatever numbers they get and what they think they mean (which people can tell them via letters). If a LOT of people buy this, and they decide it's because it indicates a strong demand for setting books, I would expect them to see if they can squeeze more into their schedule.
Fire Blog Control, Change, and Chaos: The Elemental Power Source Elemental Heroes Example Classes Xaosmith Exulter Chaos Bringer Director Elemental Heroes: Looking Back - Class and Story Elemental Heroes: Complete Class Beta - The Xaosmith (January 16, 2012) Elemental Heroes: Complete Class Beta - The Harbinger (May 16, 2012) Check out my Elemental Heroes blog series and help me develop four unique elemental classes.

Heck, while we're talking about sub-settings in FR there's the nearly undeveloped areas of Maztica and Kara-Tur, each of which would offer plenty of new content and ideas for campaigns as a similar sub-setting doesn't really exist in 4e.



Except Maztica got exchanged with the whole nation of Returned Abeir, so that'd pretty much rule out that area of the Realms. But I agree with you that there are other, less-explored, areas of Faerûn that could use some additional covering. I have a great interest with the campaign guide as my group has been embarking on re-taking the city, something our group has been doing on since before news of the Neverwinter Campaign Guide was released, so I'm really excited to see what direction they went with and how bad the city actually is. Plus the maps will be a great boon to my campaign as well.  


And as for including Bladesinger I think it's pretty telling when a single class being in the book is the tipping point on the buy/not buy scale. That said it's kinda irrelevant with DDI and the CB available -- why buy a book for a class when all of its resources are already covered by your subscription?



Yes and no. I say yes because I use the CB quite alot and find it extreamly useful but on the other hand, I like having paper-backed books to reference when I'm not at my computer or if the server goes down or if I'm using the book at someone else's house. I also enjoy Errata free material and only use it on a case-by-case basis. If something I really like from the Bladesinger get's nerfed or changed drastically, I just won't use it because I'll have the original class in paper. So to me, those are good qualities to have in a campaign guide.


And I do have to say that if this was actually the start of a pattern of expanding on the dark corners of many settings I'd feel slightly more okay with it, but I don't think that's going to happen for the simple reason that all of the marketing tie-ins don't exist for those settings and regions. Plus that's really what the relevant articles in Dungeon are for, so a full book on a region seems expensive and needless.



Well hopefully if sales of this supplement do really well, WotC will invest in other areas of their campaign settings and showcase other intriguing regions. I'm sure Eberron and Dark Sun both have greatly detailed or fan-favorites they'd love to see made into supplements. This might just be the first step in that process.
I don't normally reply in these kind of threads...but I had the same WTF moment when I read that they were going to produce a Neverwinter Campaign. As has bene stated, we already have that. The Forgotten Realms, which I don't usually play in anymore anyway. So, as someone who buys a vast majority of their books...that is one I'll be skipping (voting with my wallet). I know it's a popular location, but as a campaign setting...really?...really? Supplemental book? that makes sense.


I mean, there are so many interesting places. I wish they'd have put it up for a vote, I know how mine would go:


1. Planescape 4e
2. Spelljammer 4e
3. Nentir Vale (full setting)
4. Mystara 4e
5. Rokugan 4e

262,144. Neverwinter  

I'm betting the only reason this Campaign Setting is happening is because of the other tie in material that is releasing. I can't blame them for a money grab, but they shouldn't bump another campaign setting for this Location Expansion Supplement.    
       
I for one am excited by it, I miss the days that I could go to the gamin store for books and box sets full of Realms goodness. The Realms USED to be the most detailed setting ever! Then 4e comes along and changes all that. With 4e all we got was one Campaign book which couldnt come close to presenting the Realms as a whole, one Players Guide that featured much of the same information from the Campaign book, and one adventure, which was a decent enough for adventure but didnt really add anything lore wise, ya know? I'm seeing this Neverwinter book as an apology from Wizbro for messin up the Realms, and who knows if it sells well maybe theyll do more source books, not just for the Realms but for all the settings. Ive been saying for awhile now that they should really offer more support for the settings.
Im really seeing the release of this book as a good thing, of course I am a Realms fan so I might be slightly biased, but it may open the doors for other settings as well.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
a possibility...

2008: Forgotten Realms
2009: Eberron
2010: Dark Sun
2011: FR-Neverwinter
2012: Eb-Sharn (?)
2013: DS-Tyr (?)
Bane of Gnomes. "An angel of snuggles is a bad match for evil gods." -Mike Mearls (Worlds&Monsters, p.72)
a possibility...

2012: Eb-Sharn (?)



Sharn: City of Towers was released in 3.5. I still use it, though, as it has wonderful fluff that is system-neutral.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
> I also may be jumping the gun on things regarding Neverwinter being the
> "campaign"; reading Rule of Three 6/13/2011: "We’ll be touching on a
> semi-obscure but flavorful setting this fall, and depending on how that goes
> we’ll look at extending that to a better known one." Additionally it's noted
> that this will happen in Dragon and Dungeon, so yes no actual campaign setting
> this year it seems.

I can't help but think "Hollow World?" when I read that, although it's probably more than semi-obscure. It would qualify as flavorful and extensible though, and probably offers more design space (rules-wise as well as theme-wise) than retreading most of the other ones.
a possibility...

2012: Eb-Sharn (?)

Sharn: City of Towers was released in 3.5. I still use it, though, as it has wonderful fluff that is system-neutral.

Yeah, the issue with Eberron material is that most of it got released very recently (during 3.5) and is still largely valid for 4e since there weren't any drastic changes, from a fluff/background material standpoint (mainly, only incorporating homelands for the races that got promoted to primary-race-status in 4e). And you can still find some (many?) of those books available online, often in new condition.

Contrast that with how the Forgotten Realms got merged with its sister-world, had the Spellplague sweep through, and its timeline advanced a hundred years, so from the recycling-old-material-standpoint it's easier to explain/justify releasing a "campaign guide" to expand on the current situation in the Realms.

That said, I would love to see a book for Eberron that included a wide swath of Eberron-specific Themes for characters. I'm just not sure what other material it could have that hasn't already been covered in existing books.

“If the computer or the game designer is having more fun than the player, you have made a terrible mistake.” -Sid Meier
Our group might be an outlier though because no one plays Living Forgotten Realms, which may be the target demographic.



The target demographic would be the huge number of D&D players that adventure in the Realms. FR is by far the most popular D&D setting and is used by a lot of people.

Also, a few other points from other posts: WotC has Essentially abandoned the setting per year model. (heh, see what I did?) When they went in their new direction with Essentials that died a whimpering death. Instead we're getting campaign guides on how to run a campaign within a set location of existing settings (Gloomwrought, Neverwinter, etc.).

Ravenloft was never goign to be a yearly campaign setting. 1) it's already part of the Shadowfell, so it's part of the 4e cosmology regardless of setting (same with Planescape and Spelljammer) so it would never have been it's own setting. 2) It was going to be a standalone boxed game a la Gamma World (in addition to the board game). It's possible it may have included info on how to utlize its scenarios in an actual D&D game, but it's a far cry from being a "camaign setting."

Also, and this is my speculation, Neverwinter was always intended to be expanded upon at a later date. Obviously they had plans for the Video Game and books much earlier due to production times. Neverwinter had a single sentence mention in the campaign guide whih threw the FR fans into a tizzy. (It's in ruin? Why? What happened? Is (insert NPC here) still alive? etc.) So it seems to me less of a mea culpa on WotCs part and more of a long term project that was planned for some time.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
I understand your view here OP, you want more settings and here you are being given a setting that is really a sub setting.
On the otherhand, if you look at it as a sub setting its a great place for them to start. Yes clearly its a marketing tool, they market this book for the same reason they market the game and the novels... becasue people like and know this city. I wouldn't want a game or a book in a place I don't know, so market on WotC.
And as far as the book goes Ill love and buy it on one condition, that I can port this city to my home brew.
If I can port it to my homebrew then it is simply a great looking city supliment.

I think the issue is how it was presented to you, not what it is.
In the Nentir Vale, all injured creatures are required to wear a name tag!
The target would be groups that want to start 4e games yet again from level one, and that certainly isn't me.  Heroic tier is pretty meh, imo the game doesn't even get moving until paragon tier, what with the full set of encounter powers to keep combat fluid, paragon paths to get some character differentiation, and all the taxes already paid so you're free to spend your feats on whatever you like.
I could understand if they were to include 20+ battle maps that covered the entire area from edge to edge. Along with stats on every person living in it. Detailed info on each group that lives there and what their goals are as well as stats on their rank and file and elite and leaders. I mean a comprehensive mapping of every cave, dungeon, city, and everything else would be awesome.

Unfortunately we might get a map of the city and a little 20 page booklet on what's going on in this area (haven't really looked at the contents). Dissapointment after disapointment...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
c'mon, a Neverwinter Campaign Setting?

I'm just happy that they are continuing are supporting an existing, popular setting rather than creating Yet Another Unneeded Setting (*cough* Nentir Vale).

Thanks to LFR, lots of players and DM's are using the Realms, so further support markets to a large customer base. I prefer that sort of focus rather than the scatter-gun approach.

Still, I'd like to eventually see the other planes obtain that level of (extreme) detail, especially since they can be used with almost any setting.
Gloomwrought would have been an easier sell as a campaign setting.


Uhh... Well, they did pretty much 'sell' Gloomwrought as that. Both the Neverwinter book and the main book in the Gloomwrought box are titled 'Campaign Guide' (i.e. those two books are meant to be comparable resources within their respective 'settings'). So, why complain about one and not the other? There's nothing intrinsically wrong with products that provide more detail about specific parts of existing settings. You're right that the 'campaign setting' for the Neverwinter book is 'Forgotten Realms', just as the 'campaign setting' for the Gloomwrought book is PoLand/Nentir Vale/Fallen Nerath (whetever you choose to call the core 'default' 4e setting). But neither book claims to be a completely self-contained 'Campaign Setting'. Both books say 'Campaign Guide' on their covers.



Well, I'm thinking he is referring to how a new campaign setting has been released every year since 4th's release. 2008- Forgotten Realms. 2009- Eberron. 2010- Dark Sun. This is a year where instead of a new setting, like Dragonlance or Planescape, they have released, as you said, a supplement of an already existing Camapign setting for 4th. I can see where he is coming from (although I am looking forward to this release). My guess is that Neverwinter is being released, as someone said above, because of the video game coming out.

So technically the thread poster is correct. No new Camapign setting for 2011- as far as a new setting. Gloomwrought falls into to the category of Underdark or Plane Above books. Neverwinter falls into Ebberon and Dark Sun.

That said- this book appears wicked cool and I am curious to see how they pull off the open storyline design, concept thingy.
I read somewhere that neverwinter campaign guide introduces character themes to forgotten realms wich could mean good news to players in living forgotten realms should those options actually become available to us in that format. i'm always interested to see new classes so i'm very currious about this bladesinger, is it a e-style sword mage i wonder?
I could understand if they were to include 20+ battle maps that covered the entire area from edge to edge. Along with stats on every person living in it. Detailed info on each group that lives there and what their goals are as well as stats on their rank and file and elite and leaders. I mean a comprehensive mapping of every cave, dungeon, city, and everything else would be awesome.

Unfortunately we might get a map of the city and a little 20 page booklet on what's going on in this area (haven't really looked at the contents). Dissapointment after disapointment...



I was hoping they would include a miniature hand crafter and painted for all creatures, people and plants in the city, as well as the maps you mentioned but we would need 160+ because I would like to see night and day, in all 4 seasons, and if they could throw in a couple extra sets of the city maps with damaged buildings in case my pcs deside to have battles within the city. So maybe 320+ double sided poster maps and at lease 1000 minis, and the book should be at lease 500 pages with everything that could ever happen detailed with skill and combat encounters. Also if Chris Perkins could just crawl into the box and help me run my home game Id be down for that.

But Id settle for the Narnia Wardrobe that transports me and my players to a fantacy world while time stops in our real lives, I guess... but they better keep it under $20.
In the Nentir Vale, all injured creatures are required to wear a name tag!
I could understand if they were to include 20+ battle maps that covered the entire area from edge to edge. Along with stats on every person living in it. Detailed info on each group that lives there and what their goals are as well as stats on their rank and file and elite and leaders. I mean a comprehensive mapping of every cave, dungeon, city, and everything else would be awesome.

Unfortunately we might get a map of the city and a little 20 page booklet on what's going on in this area (haven't really looked at the contents). Dissapointment after disapointment...



I was hoping they would include a miniature hand crafter and painted for all creatures, people and plants in the city, as well as the maps you mentioned but we would need 160+ because I would like to see night and day, in all 4 seasons, and if they could throw in a couple extra sets of the city maps with damaged buildings in case my pcs deside to have battles within the city. So maybe 320+ double sided poster maps and at lease 1000 minis, and the book should be at lease 500 pages with everything that could ever happen detailed with skill and combat encounters. Also if Chris Perkins could just crawl into the box and help me run my home game Id be down for that.

But Id settle for the Narnia Wardrobe that transports me and my players to a fantacy world while time stops in our real lives, I guess... but they better keep it under $20.



Wait... there's a point in there somewhere... oh, you're trying to say that what I wanted was ridiculous? ok... sure... but then so is this product.

How bout a more realistic look. A map of every town, important dungeon, and common nature locale (like one side for a snowy plain, another for a snowy forest), a large overland map that shows the entire region and a decent sized book 200+ pages describing every faction involved and stats for the most common monsters + special leaders of factions...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I'm excited about the Neverwinter Campaign Guide. I like the idea of starting up a new 4e campaign in FR. I hope it contains an adventure. Adventures are where rubber meets the road in D&D.
I am looking forward to Neverwinter on all levels, so much that I am going to DM Encounters for it. I am interested to see how Cryptic impacted this book as well.

Celebrate our differences.

I dont think they should of called it a campaign setting since its in hte FR.


what it should of said was:
 Neverwinter: A FR setting or something   
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
No one at the two gaming stores I frequent has even mentioned this product. I expect to see one or two copies come in and sit on the shelves for years.
The horrible truth - "Their new marketing strategy (Evergreen Essentials) pretty much requires that anything new that sees print refer back almost exclusively to Essentials." Tony Vargas
I dont think they should of called it a campaign setting since its in hte FR.


what it should of said was:
 Neverwinter: A FR setting or something   


the product catalog says setting but on the cover of the book it actually says "Neverwinter campaign guide"
I dont think they should of called it a campaign setting since its in hte FR.
what it should of said was:
 Neverwinter: A FR setting or something   


the product catalog says setting but on the cover of the book it actually says "Neverwinter campaign guide"


Since he's ignored the fact that both myself and Diffan have already pointed that out, what makes you think he'll pay any attention to you?

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

This may be an experiment to see if they can bring back the 2E and 3E days of setting-specific supplements, or if the people crying out for their return aren't as interested in them as they've claimed.

There are SO freaking many books and boxed sets for specific areas in 2E and 3E. So, you know, this may be actually responding to customer feedback.

Yep, and some of us loved that there were so freaking many sourcebooks for Forgotten Realms.  I hope this is testing the waters to jettison the idiotic "two generic books, one bad module" policy for campaign settings, but more likely we're only seeing this thanks to the book and videogame tie-ins.

-Alveric "And the sword that had visited Earth from so far away smote like the falling of thunderbolts; and green sparks rose from the armour, and crimson as sword met sword; and thick elvish blood moved slowly, from wide slits, down the cuirass; and Lirazel gazed in awe and wonder and love; and the combatants edged away fighting into the forest; and branches fell on them hacked off by their fight; and the runes in Alveric's far-travelled sword exulted, and roared at the elf-knight; until in the dark of the wood, amongst branches severed from disenchanted trees, with a blow like that of a thunderbolt riving an oak tree, Alveric slew him."
its just heroic tier so its not really a campaign setting. more like a tier setting. im skipping it
and I'll stop when wotc stops... hahhahahaha

they keep doing it too 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
its just heroic tier so its not really a campaign setting. more like a tier setting. im skipping it



That is actually one of the reasons im buying it, after regretting buying the Shadowfell supplement, and swearing to stop buying rpg products for a while. Tongue out

its just heroic tier so its not really a campaign setting. more like a tier setting. im skipping it



I can't imagine not buying a release from Wizards. If anything, it will be a great throne reader (Essentials fills this role perfectly; it has in a pinch worked well as TP). I hate themes but they are interesting to read. No, passing on this, it would be missing on a new campaign design method that Wizards is enacting.
to each their own, i was looking forward to it but when they said its nothing but heroic tier it lost a lot of value
its just heroic tier so its not really a campaign setting. more like a tier setting. im skipping it



I can't imagine not buying a release from Wizards. If anything, it will be a great throne reader (Essentials fills this role perfectly; it has in a pinch worked well as TP). I hate themes but they are interesting to read. No, passing on this, it would be missing on a new campaign design method that Wizards is enacting.



Every other page is fluff, so of course its like complementary TP...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
If its Heroic tier only does that mean the Bladesinger stops at level 11?
58292718 wrote:
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