June errata?

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Wasn't there supposed to be a major rules update in June? WotC, did you cancel it?
When was the last one? I know they slowed down the errata cycle, so if it was in the last two months, I would say no erratta this month.
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When was the last one? I know they slowed down the errata cycle, so if it was in the last two months, I would say no erratta this month.


They announced in spring that every month would see a minor errata, except June and December which have bigger erratae that need more playtest.

Maybe nothing is wrong with the rules...

.. nothing needs to be fixed!
The Lair Assault character creation rules are up.

www.wizards.com/WPN/News/Article.aspx?x=...
"Censorship is telling a man he can’t have a steak just because a baby can’t chew it.” ~Mark Twain
They also announced we would see the Char creation rules for lair assault... so far ... nothing...


Ahem.

www.wizards.com/wpn/News/Article.aspx?x=...

No idea on the errata, though with all the flak WotC's taken recently for updates, I consider this a mixed blessing.

-O

(ed: Darn ninjas!)
I don't count Lair Assault rules as any errata. And errata is more than welcome as long as it fixes the game instead of nerfing a weak class like cleric. The cleric nerfs were the only major errata this far that I have disliked. And the Magic Missile change. But otherwise it has improved the game, so I was looking forward to that June errata. I hope there is only a delay. Can WotC_Huscarl or someone tell us what the situation is?
I thought the major errata was saved for July.
Maybe nothing is wrong with the rules...

.. nothing needs to be fixed!



I agree.  And I agree.  Nevertheless, they will find something to errata.
We had some technical difficulties getting the errata posted today. It should be up some time tomorrow.

Our "big" errata for June was the warlock, which appeared as a playtest. We're hoping to have the final warlock changes processed and posted next month. 

D&D Producer

We had some technical difficulties getting the errata posted today. It should be up some time tomorrow.

Our "big" errata for June was the warlock, which appeared as a playtest. We're hoping to have the final warlock changes processed and posted next month. 

Thanks for the update!

We had some technical difficulties getting the errata posted today. It should be up some time tomorrow.

Our "big" errata for June was the warlock, which appeared as a playtest. We're hoping to have the final warlock changes processed and posted next month. 



Oh. I really thought the "big" errata would be something like the errata of old days, with lots of pages, trying to enhance everything that is wrong with the system - you know, those that people used to call 4.1, 4.2...

I liked those. A little disappointed now.
So, the big errata is... no bigger than any of the other errata we've had for the past few months.

Wow.

I know, I know, the Warlock is original material, where the previous articles have been prints of the cancelled Class Compendium, and therefore were written months ago.  But when, a month or two ago, WotC asked CharOp to suggest things which would benefit from changes, I'd expected to see at least SOME of those changes enacted by now.  Many of them were fairly simple updates...

Oh well, you live and learn.

Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
So, the big errata is... no bigger than any of the other errata we've had for the past few months.

Wow.

I know, I know, the Warlock is original material, where the previous articles have been prints of the cancelled Class Compendium, and therefore were written months ago.  But when, a month or two ago, WotC asked CharOp to suggest things which would benefit from changes, I'd expected to see at least SOME of those changes enacted by now.  Many of them were fairly simple updates...

Oh well, you live and learn.




Ditto.

Color me disturbed. This looks like more of the same "Essentials is the new starting point" BS that made the first half this year a waste. O4E was always improved by the errata cycle, lets keep it going.
So, the big errata is... no bigger than any of the other errata we've had for the past few months.

Wow.

I know, I know, the Warlock is original material, where the previous articles have been prints of the cancelled Class Compendium, and therefore were written months ago.  But when, a month or two ago, WotC asked CharOp to suggest things which would benefit from changes, I'd expected to see at least SOME of those changes enacted by now.  Many of them were fairly simple updates...

Oh well, you live and learn.




Yea I'm kinda disappointed too.  Was expecting various fixes/clarifications spread across all classes (Hexblade clarifications, a ruling on the whole multiattack vs standard action debate, the finalized Warlock updates, whether Battle Cleric's Lore is still poachable via hybrid/MC, just as an example)

But, just the Warlock updates?  If this is the pace they're setting for fixing/updating classes...well there's Runepriest, Artificer, Seeker, Assassin...not to mention they need support outside of errata ie Dragon articles.  And actually good Class Acts articles, too (not a Class Acts: Runepriest that has 4 RARE items in it...and nothing else)

Edit: Also, Ensnaring/Assault Swordmage, Sorcerers (especially PP options), racial support for the newer races (PHB3 and later; also Changeling), Shaman AC issues (and why they don't have Hide prof. ????), Kulkor fixing, changing Executioner's Assassin Strike to be comparable to encounter powers, Vampire/Binder's sucktasticness, Hunter's scaling in control and making their encounter power an RBA usable 1/turn, Hexblades in general, Cavalier's poor punishment scaling (Paladin makes up for it with feats/features to bolster it), missing Expertise feats (Unarmed, Flail, Polearm)...just some of the other big and small things that need to be looked at
Many "fixes" are going to come out in the form of new powers/feats/features.  Like the Str Cleric article.  Though i expect a fair amount of nerf in the "june" updates.

Assassin article is comming out next month.  Then presumably a runepriest/seeker/artificer in the next few.  I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Shaman/swarm druid ones tossed in their either.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

To the designers of the game, "reworking a class that has been in-play since the game was released" is probably a bigger deal than "clarifying some issues and nerfing the bloody snot out of some unintentionally powerful features."  I just want to see the June document.
Wish: granted.

www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJune2011...

And Kulkor Arms Master escapes unscathed.  Somehow.  The Orb of Nimble Thoughts update pleases me.
The Dragon themes are updated - which is good.

Animal Minion's defenses scale (very very good change), and all (I think) of the other static bonuses are now Power-typed.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
The Dragon themes are updated - which is good.

Animal Minion's defenses scale (very very good change)



Hurray if they are going to give the thing a combat presence insisting that it be defined in such a way that it is targettable it needs to have appropriate ratings.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Wish: granted.

www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJune2011...

And Kulkor Arms Master escapes unscathed.  Somehow.  The Orb of Nimble Thoughts update pleases me.



Haha. I JUST got the Orb of Nimble thoughts too (I never played a controller before). And KAM is ridiculous.

My Strategist Epiphany is gone too... guess I should have played an Int based class a year ago instead of now
Wish: granted.

www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateJune2011...

And Kulkor Arms Master escapes unscathed.  Somehow.  The Orb of Nimble Thoughts update pleases me.


That's a bit more like it, yeah.  Slightly disappointed that KAM's made it through, but very pleased that another egregious offender (spark slippers) has finally been coralled.

See, if the link to that had been posted, rather than  a WotC employee saying 'well, it's just the Warlock, sorry', I wouldn't have been so concerned.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Well, it's still not a big update.  If you ignore the cleric, the spelling, the obvious mistakes (missing impliment keyword).

Only 1/2 a page of "actual" stuff.

But yea, KAM still needs something.  Probably the top "nerf me now" thing.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Well, it's still not a big update.  If you ignore the cleric, the spelling, the obvious mistakes (missing impliment keyword).

Only 1/2 a page of "actual" stuff.

But yea, KAM still needs something.  Probably the top "nerf me now" thing.



What it needs is to be 1/round deal Strength modifier damage to an enemy you knocked prone with a hammer/mace.
After Greg's announcement depressed me somewhat, I was pleasanty surprised that there were actual balance fixes in addition to editing mistake fixes. Keep dat errata coming, there's still a lot of work to do as shown in a previous message.
We waited how long for this? We gave how much feedback?

And whatever happened to providing the rationale for the changes and providing new stat blocks for changed powers/items?

I for one, am severely disappointed that this is all we get. It's really not any bigger than what we've been getting with "minor" errata if you take out all the class compendium stuff and obvious typos that could have been fixed in the "minor" errata. 
Does R&D not understand the problem with forced movement into damaging zones, or do they believe it is actually working as intended?

I'm very disappointed.  There are obvious problems that have been well-discussed in the forums (in some cases, for years).  Two months ago, we had a thread that went on for almost 1000 posts, detailing a number of problems.

D&D has some big glaring problems that cause me to not want to play it other than with a group of friends where we're all on the same page about what character options make the game fun.

That is not a good thing for the game's growth or survival.  Lair Assaults, the new Organized Play program where "everything is legal" and appears designed to attract hardcore optimizers?  You could not pay me enough to run or play that.

You get the idea that R&D does not, on a very basic level, grasp the idea that there are people who are actually playing the game strictly according to the rules.

That obviously broken combo that no sane DM would ever allow in his game, so you don't have to worry about it?  Yeah, someone's shown up at D&D Encounters, or LFR, or some other public game with that exact character, and either destroys everyone else's fun or causes a scene when they can't.  Lair Assaults?  That's what that entire program will be about.

This was the big errata for the next six months?  The difference in degree between this and what we've seen in the last few months is trivial.  I was hoping and expecting a lot more.
ah my rending weapon is still intact
A thread with over a thousand posts full of possible fixes will take some time to implement I would think. 
A thread with over a thousand posts full of possible fixes will take some time to implement I would think. 



Not really, no. The main issues were compiled in the OP and many of the fixes to the worst offenders are one line rules changes that were already written for them. It isnt an exaggeration to say that these are 2 year old problems that the community has already playtested the fixes for.
I was disappointed that the rules update is still showing the incorrect (pre-Essentials) skill DC's for the Dungeon Masters Guide (pages 34 and 37 of the June update file).
Well, that and the fact that I have just noticed the errata for the original DM screen has been removed (unsure if thats new in this update or not).
Calm down, folks.  Two months is just not enough time to account for every recommendation from the forums.  Try to understand that they have a shortage of people and it takes time to move material through all the proper channels.  The errata for themes fixes just about everything we griped about, and a couple other notorious offenders were fixed as well.  I'm sure they'll get to KAM sooner or later, but honestly I've never seen it used outside of the CharOp forums.
When will people get tired of making excuses for them the problems mentioned on that thread are for the most part obvious as being problems and have been an issue for up to 3 years more than enough time to do something if there was a will or ability to.
I was disappointed that the rules update is still showing the incorrect (pre-Essentials) skill DC's for the Dungeon Masters Guide (pages 34 and 37 of the June update file).
Well, that and the fact that I have just noticed the errata for the original DM screen has been removed (unsure if thats new in this update or not).



Rules changes that originate in printed materials are not, are never will be, included in the "free" rules changes posted ti the WotC website.  In order to view such rules changes, one must buy the book in question or me a DDI subscriber.  This makes the Rules Compendium essentially "Errata You Pay For" but they called it something different, probably for marketing reasons.
I was disappointed that the rules update is still showing the incorrect (pre-Essentials) skill DC's for the Dungeon Masters Guide (pages 34 and 37 of the June update file).
Well, that and the fact that I have just noticed the errata for the original DM screen has been removed (unsure if thats new in this update or not).



Rules changes that originate in printed materials are not, are never will be, included in the "free" rules changes posted ti the WotC website.  In order to view such rules changes, one must buy the book in question or me a DDI subscriber.  This makes the Rules Compendium essentially "Errata You Pay For" but they called it something different, probably for marketing reasons.



Really if they just reprinted the core books with all the updates and combined them (i.e. PHB1,2,3 into one book, DMG1,2 in one book, MM1,2,3 into one book) then I would buy once a year or once every two years....
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
While I don't necessarily agree with some of the tone here, I do agree with the general idea:

A lot of the "changes" suggested in that big ol' CharOp thread are things that have been problems for a long long time (since the game's release, in some cases).  "They'll get around to it" isn't really an adequate response, at this point.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I was disappointed that the rules update is still showing the incorrect (pre-Essentials) skill DC's for the Dungeon Masters Guide (pages 34 and 37 of the June update file).
Well, that and the fact that I have just noticed the errata for the original DM screen has been removed (unsure if thats new in this update or not).



Rules changes that originate in printed materials are not, are never will be, included in the "free" rules changes posted ti the WotC website.  In order to view such rules changes, one must buy the book in question or me a DDI subscriber.  This makes the Rules Compendium essentially "Errata You Pay For" but they called it something different, probably for marketing reasons.



What makes me think otherwise is the 2 'Changes Coming In Essentials' articles did get included as errata to pre-Essentials publications. IMO if the Essentials Skill DC's are the errata'ed values, they should be included as errata to earlier books.

What makes me think otherwise is the 2 'Changes Coming In Essentials' articles did get included as errata to pre-Essentials publications. IMO if the Essentials Skill DC's are the errata'ed values, they should be included as errata to earlier books.




Those weren't a part of the normal Rules Changes process, nor were they a compehensive list of changes in those books (and several of those changes were changes not found in those books, oddly enough)
What makes me think otherwise is the 2 'Changes Coming In Essentials' articles did get included as errata to pre-Essentials publications. IMO if the Essentials Skill DC's are the errata'ed values, they should be included as errata to earlier books.




Those weren't a part of the normal Rules Changes process, nor were they a compehensive list of changes in those books (and several of those changes were changes not found in those books, oddly enough)



Like how essentials humans dont say they get a choice of at-will, merely that they get Heroic Effort.

Or, as has WoTC has had to work around lately, removing the Divine keyword from Healing Word
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