Melira, Persist, Trap or bolt rulings.

9 posts / 0 new
Last post
I've been looking all over for the answer to this question, but I cannot find it. Sorry if it has already been asked.

I have Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Viscera Seer, and Murderous Redcap out on the battlefield. I decide to activate Seer's ability and sacrifice the Redcap (for infinite damage or scrye). In response my opponent uses Ravenous trap once the Cap hits the graveyard (responding to persist triggering). Do I loose the Recap?

Also, what would happen if he bolted the Seer or Melira? With me having priority do I still not get the Seer's inifinite combo?

I assume the answer is no, since you can respond to Persist triggering. But, I'm more concerned about the graveyard ability.

Thank you in advance!

I have Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Viscera Seer, and Murderous Redcap out on the battlefield. I decide to activate Seer's ability and sacrifice the Redcap (for infinite damage or scrye). In response my opponent uses Ravenous trap once the Cap hits the graveyard (responding to persist triggering). Do I loose the Recap?

Yes. Ravenous trap resolves first, exiling everything from your graveyard. Then persist resolves and attempts to return the redcap from your graveyard to the battlefield, but it can't.
Also, what would happen if he bolted the Seer or Melira?

That too will break the combo. Bolt resolves first, killing its target, and then persist resolves, returning the redcap to the battlefield. Depending on what the bolt targetted, you either now have a redcap with a -1/-1 counter on it, or you have nothing with which to sacrifice the redcap.
Thanks for the swift reply!

Everything happens as I expected. 
I've been looking all over for the answer to this question, but I cannot find it. Sorry if it has already been asked.

I have Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Viscera Seer, and Murderous Redcap out on the battlefield. I decide to activate Seer's ability and sacrifice the Redcap (for infinite damage or scrye). In response my opponent uses Ravenous trap once the Cap hits the graveyard (responding to persist triggering). Do I loose the Recap?

Yes.

The Ravenous Trap is cast after the Persist trigger goes on the stack, adn therefore resolves first. After it resolves, the game object that the Persist trigger  looks for (the Murderous Redvap card in the graveyard) no longer exists, so it cannot be moved anywhere.

Also, what would happen if he bolted the Seer or Melira? With me having priority do I still not get the Seer's inifinite combo?

I don't know what you mean by "with me having priority." Priority is analagous to a baton the players pass round, or set down in order to do something.

You have to give your opponent priority in order to allow the Persist trigger to resolve. When you do, you run the risk of your opponent doing something to disruptr the loop, like the aforementioned Ravenous Trap.

If they choose to Bolt Melira (thus eliminating the effect that prevents the Persisting creature from acquiring a -1/-1 counter) or the Seer (thus eliminating the sacrifice outlet) the combo is disrupted.

If you could arrange to control an Everlasting Torment, though, Melira's ability would protect both herself and the Seer from any damage. (Won't help against other means of removing the creatures, or nondamaging destruction).
Still blessed by Julia of Hillsdown. M:tG Rules Adviser You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

I have Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Viscera Seer, and Murderous Redcap out on the battlefield. I decide to activate Seer's ability and sacrifice the Redcap (for infinite damage or scrye). In response my opponent uses Ravenous trap once the Cap hits the graveyard (responding to persist triggering). Do I loose the Recap?

Yes. Ravenous trap resolves first, exiling everything from your graveyard. Then persist resolves and attempts to return the redcap from your graveyard to the battlefield, but it can't.
Also, what would happen if he bolted the Seer or Melira?

That too will break the combo. Bolt resolves first, killing its target, and then persist resolves, returning the redcap to the battlefield. Depending on what the bolt targetted, you either now have a redcap with a -1/-1 counter on it, or you have nothing with which to sacrifice the redcap.



I have a question about this part of the answer.
Bolt resolves first, killing its target, and then persist resolves, returning the redcap to the battlefield. Depending on what the bolt targetted, you either now have a redcap with a -1/-1 counter on it, or you have nothing with which to sacrifice the redcap.



in response to my opponent bolting my Melira, Sylvok Outcast can't I respond by saccing the the redcap again to Melira x amount of times to do enough damage to kill him?


No.

1. You sac Murderous Redcap
2. Its Persist ability is put on the stack.
3. Your opponent responds to the Persist trigger by bolting your Melira.

Now, the Bolt will resolve, killing Melira before the presist ability resolves bringing back the Redcap.  Since Melira is no longer on the battlefield, Redcap will enter with a -1/-1 counter and if you sac him again, his Persist ability will not trigger.
DCI Level 1 Judge Please autocard: [c]Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon[/c] = Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon [c=Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]Skittles[/c] = Skittles Cards do what they say they do. No more. No less.
Don't want to raise any cavils, but this thread has brought about a certain doubt... We assume the [C]Murderous Redcap[/C] returns to the battlefield without the Persist-bound -1/-1 counter due to Melira's second static ability. But isn't he returning to the battlefield with an already placed counter (before entering said zone), thus escaping her second ability's breadth?
From the Comp Rules:

121.6. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being “placed” on a permanent, it means putting a counter
on that permanent while it’s on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a
counter on it as the result of a replacement effect (see rule 614.1c).

614.1c Effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ,” “As [this permanent]
enters the battlefield . . . ,” or “[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . ” are replacement
effects.
From the Comp Rules:

121.6. If a spell or ability refers to a counter being “placed” on a permanent, it means putting a counter
on that permanent while it’s on the battlefield, or that permanent entering the battlefield with a
counter on it as the result of a replacement effect (see rule 614.1c).

614.1c Effects that read “[This permanent] enters the battlefield with . . . ,” “As [this permanent]
enters the battlefield . . . ,” or “[This permanent] enters the battlefield as . . . ” are replacement
effects.



Thank you, I had doubt first at too but after reading this verification, Melira + persist works 100%.