[M12-MCD] Sunpetal Grove cycle reprinted

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Sunpetal Grove
Land (R)
~ETB tapped unless you control a forest or a plains.
t: Add g or w to your mana pool


Also Glacial Fortress, Drowned Catacomb, Dragonskull Summit and Rootbound Crag


community.wizards.com/mtguk/blog/2011/06...         
 
Source?

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Already got my playset of sunpetal grove and dragonskull summit. Now if only i'd stop getting those cards in packs.
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Exoected, but nice none-the-less!
Expected. I need to get a playset of these things eventually.
True post count: 9,900 Thanks Wotc for not counting archived posts. If I post without capital letters than means I'm posting from my phone. For some reason it hates typing capital letters. Go_Texans on MTGO. Texans 12-4 Wildcard: W Texans 19 Bengals 13 Divisional: L Texans 28 Patriots 41 Another awesome season!
Expected.

GW

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Really glad I dont have to chase another cycle of rare duals.
(still going to miss the Manlands & Refuges... I guess I need to get the SOM ones now to go with my Core Set duals)

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Expected. Not excited. Better than new duals to deal with, not as fun as the oft-rumored, rarely-printed enemy duals could have been.
Rules Nut Advisor
I need to chase down playsets of all 5... Still solid Duals and I'm glad to see them back. 
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I am Red/Green
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Thumbs up for not cashing in on printing a new set of duals.

Thumbs down for not reprinting allied fetches.
Definitely expected. If and when they print enemy duals, it will be in Innistrad, not a core set.
Definitely expected. If and when they print enemy duals, it will be in Innistrad, not a core set.


I think they missed a chance to print enemy duals in MBS/NPH.

~ Tim
I am Blue/White Reached DCI Rating 1800 on 28/10/11. :D
Sig
56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
I am rather sick of this cycle.
I am rather sick of this cycle.



This is only its third showing! 

This is a great move. I've pretty much come to accept that WOTC will continue to print necessary mana-fixing at rare, but if they use the core set in this fashion to keep the secondary market price down, and allow casual players to accumulate them just by virtue of buying packs here and there over a few years, then I can deal with them being at rare.  
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
Indeed. Pretty soon, these should all be about $2 a pop.
Good. It is important to have strong and somewhat flexible duals that don't enable 3+ colors strategies too easily. These are probably the most balanced dual lands ever printed, and I hope they stick around for.... well, forever.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000) Check out Ars Arcanum, my stat based series on Magic Limited, over at PureMTGO. Here is a link to the archive: http://goo.gl/Zvh6Q
This is a relief. I'm only 2 Sunpetal Groves and a Dragonskull Summit away from having a playset of each of these. I would hate to have to start collecting new ones.
so much for getting ravnica lands or onslaught fetch.Cry
I am Blue/White
I am Blue/White
That the Ravnica duals were considered for a core set seems like years ago. Well, it was actually. In 2007 AF noted that they were perfect for a core set but they wanted Ravnica's multi-colored madness to go away for a while rather than continue for two years. How things can change when people stop buying cards.

That said, I am glad they at least are reprinting these enough times to keep them cheap for Standard players.
Remember, the names aren't as important for core sets (half the painlands had specific names), so the RAV duals having generic names is more for them to be able to be re-printed in expansions.

And if anything, the little bit of art we've seen from Innistrad makes me think that would be a better fit for them.

And remember, WOTC goes by the assumption that new players won't take the 2 points of damage, esp in a core set. So it's taplands for the time being.  
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
AF specially said they were perfect for a core set, so I'll have to go with him on this one. I don't think the names are that specific, unlike the bounceland cycle which was guild-specific. But obviously something happened between the time he said that and his comments about painland types being undesirable for new players a little more than a year later.That said, under current philosophies it's hard to see just where those shocklands would be printed again.
AF specially said they were perfect for a core set, so I'll have to go with him on this one. I don't think the names are that specific, unlike the bounceland cycle which was guild-specific. But obviously something happened between the time he said that and his comments about painland types being undesirable for new players a little more than a year later.That said, under current philosophies it's hard to see just where those shocklands would be printed again.



...

If not core, and if not expansion, then... mini-sets like commander and duel decks?
They are servicable duals, and I already have a most, but I am rather dissapointed that they did not try a cycle of another future shited land.  Horizon Canopy and Nimbus Maze are really cool, and could add some new spice to the mix.
Remember, the names aren't as important for core sets


True, but having more general names is still better design in something that may go in a core set.
wow...

M12 is going to get sold to nobody !!
enemy cycle would have been better and would be an insentive to buy m12, now they will go left unsold....

I'm really considering not going to the prerelease because 3/4 of the rares/uncommons are totally crap...and unless you get Chandra you will get a hard time getting you're money's worth.;(
I like these. This will be my first chance to get them, too (barring just buying them, but I still like buying boosters). They will be handy if I ever decide to make a deck, or any combination of allied colors.

 
And there's the Creepy Doll That always follows you It's got a ruined eye That's always open And there's a Creepy Doll That always follows you It's got a pretty mouth To swallow you whole
wow...

M12 is going to get sold to nobody !!
enemy cycle would have been better and would be an insentive to buy m12, now they will go left unsold....

I'm really considering not going to the prerelease because 3/4 of the rares/uncommons are totally crap...and unless you get Chandra you will get a hard time getting you're money's worth.;(



Oblivion Ring, Reinforcements, Smallpox, Incinerate, Goblin Grenade, Phoenix, the Sphinx/Demon, etc.

There's plenty of chasable cards in this set. 
i still don't see why they don't make dual lands of all possible combinations with no drawback.  for a game that tries to encourage playing multiple colors, they just needlessly make it difficult to do so easily.  was it really so terrible back when they did have real duals? 

It's for the best (I know someone's going to give me a hard time about saying this), but it makes usable duels cheap, plain and simple. Wizards has to take liberties into taking their business beyond secondhand retailers to ensure people enjoy and endulge in their profit. The game is virtually unplayable at a constructed level without special lands because of the desparity between the options they create. The more cycles of cheap duels they make, the lower the cost of the average well built deck, the more people who will want to invest and play more heavily.


As for keeping enemy duel lands scarce, I suppose for the meantime we can only accept it as a flavorful choice in terms of them being enemy colors forced to interact. Maybe Innistrad will give us something in that regard? Or maybe one of the next premium sets will have Ravnica duels?

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I'm willing to bet that this is going to be the last reprint of the cycle for a long time. Just look at the original five walkers... they all got three standard legal printings and then got retired for a new cycle. Here's looking to M13 for something new. Also if we keep being multi-color free (light) until then we could see the shock lands rerprinted  in that core set and a return to Rav with ten rare slots freed up.
i still don't see why they don't make dual lands of all possible combinations with no drawback.  for a game that tries to encourage playing multiple colors, they just needlessly make it difficult to do so easily.  was it really so terrible back when they did have real duals? 




A couple of reasons:

1) Having free manafixing for every colour combination is actually bad. Too much free mana fixing degenerates the game into "Everyone plays the best cards in the format regardless of colour." Removing restrictions ends up stifling the format, not opening it.

2) It allows them to push the allied/enemy concept. When you can play BW as easily as you can BR, in what way are BR allied and BW enemies?

3) They can't reprint or functionally reprint the original duals like Underground Sea because of the Reserve List, but also because to do so would damage the secondary market prices of the orginals (although to what extent is arguable). That means they'd basically be kicking the guy who ordered his playset of Underground Sea at $100 apiece the previous day right in the balls, and discourage him from ever making high-value investment in the game in the future. 

To answer the question of "was it so terrible" the answer is no, because they only had the ten duals. When it becomes a problem is when there are two or more sets of dual lands in the format, like when Lorwyn was in Standard and we had filters, painlands, tribal lands and Future Sight lands. That is when we might as well not have colors at all. When people were runninng Cryptic Command and hardcastig Cloudthresher without issues, that was even more than they could do when Ravnica was in Standard.

So while having every color combination makes it slightly harder to identify enemy and ally colors (something that can easily be resolved by color hosers and color helpers), simply having a set of enemy color lands along with ally color lands does not undermine color identity. 

was it really so terrible back when they did have real duals? 


If all all 10 duals are in standard, and all 10 are the original duals, then it pretty much eliminates the land design space.  What would be the point in developing and designing new lands if the best ones were already legal. 
wow...

M12 is going to get sold to nobody !!
enemy cycle would have been better and would be an insentive to buy m12, now they will go left unsold....

I'm really considering not going to the prerelease because 3/4 of the rares/uncommons are totally crap...and unless you get Chandra you will get a hard time getting you're money's worth.;(



Oblivion Ring, Reinforcements, Smallpox, Incinerate, Goblin Grenade, Phoenix, the Sphinx/Demon, etc.

There's plenty of chasable cards in this set. 



those cards you mentioned  aren't chase cards (I already have half of them...), the chase cards are : Solemn/Chandra/ and like 4 others...If you don't get them, it isn't worth buying a box for them...
Indeed. Pretty soon, these should all be about $2 a pop.



Yeah, they should be.
wow...

M12 is going to get sold to nobody !!
enemy cycle would have been better and would be an insentive to buy m12, now they will go left unsold....

I'm really considering not going to the prerelease because 3/4 of the rares/uncommons are totally crap...and unless you get Chandra you will get a hard time getting you're money's worth.;(



Oblivion Ring, Reinforcements, Smallpox, Incinerate, Goblin Grenade, Phoenix, the Sphinx/Demon, etc.

There's plenty of chasable cards in this set. 



those cards you mentioned  aren't chase cards (I already have half of them...), the chase cards are : Solemn/Chandra/ and like 4 others...If you don't get them, it isn't worth buying a box for them...



The fact that you already have them doesn't stop them being chase cards.

Furthermore, buying a box is rarely money-efficient anyway. It's only marginally better than buying boosters at MSRP. If you're trying to net value from your purchases, you buy singles of the rares and Mythics, or you speculate on metagame trends. 

To add to the above list, we have Titans, Garruk and Gideon in the Mythics, Arachnus Spinner in the rares, etc. 

Oblivion Ring, Reinforcements, Smallpox, Incinerate, Goblin Grenade, Phoenix, the Sphinx/Demon, etc.

There's plenty of chasable cards in this set. 


You're joking, right? O-Ring, Smallpox, Incinerate, and Grenade are reprints of commons and uncommons, the Sphinx and Demon are intro pack rares, and Phoenix is promo rare. None of these is worth more than $3.

M12 is a joke, they should have just stuck to printing 350-card core sets every two years, if half of the core set is to be reprints anyway. In my area the prerelease is going to be for 16 people instead of 32 as normal because M12 has so little value.
In Legacy, Blue is the best color. Let's punish blue, in Modern. And they listened!

Oblivion Ring, Reinforcements, Smallpox, Incinerate, Goblin Grenade, Phoenix, the Sphinx/Demon, etc.

There's plenty of chasable cards in this set. 


You're joking, right? O-Ring, Smallpox, Incinerate, and Grenade are reprints of commons and uncommons, the Sphinx and Demon are intro pack rares, and Phoenix is promo rare. None of these is worth more than $3.

M12 is a joke, they should have just stuck to printing 350-card core sets every two years, if half of the core set is to be reprints anyway. In my area the prerelease is going to be for 16 people instead of 32 as normal because M12 has so little value.




thank you, for understanding my point....;)
hey I don't mind that much...another base set I can skip, except for the few rares and 1 set of uncommons I want..which I can trade for !
I am not buying a box, not because of the lack of value, but because I don't see too many cards I will use. But I will go to the prerelease and play as many drafts as I can because the set looks awesome for that.
Grow old or die trying.
i still don't see why they don't make dual lands of all possible combinations with no drawback.  for a game that tries to encourage playing multiple colors, they just needlessly make it difficult to do so easily.  was it really so terrible back when they did have real duals? 




A couple of reasons:

1) Having free manafixing for every colour combination is actually bad. Too much free mana fixing degenerates the game into "Everyone plays the best cards in the format regardless of colour." Removing restrictions ends up stifling the format, not opening it.

2) It allows them to push the allied/enemy concept. When you can play BW as easily as you can BR, in what way are BR allied and BW enemies?

3) They can't reprint or functionally reprint the original duals like Underground Sea because of the Reserve List, but also because to do so would damage the secondary market prices of the orginals (although to what extent is arguable). That means they'd basically be kicking the guy who ordered his playset of Underground Sea at $100 apiece the previous day right in the balls, and discourage him from ever making high-value investment in the game in the future. 



Why should wizards care about secondary market values? They've already said that they don't. The reserve list is due to power reasons, not third party sellers. And they already shafted plenty of people with the cards they put into the new commander sets, why should they suddenly pretend to have pity now?

The reserve list is due to power reasons, not third party sellers. And they already shafted plenty of people with the cards they put into the new commander sets, why should they suddenly pretend to have pity now?


Actually, it may have at one point been about power, but a while back they tried to get rid of the reserve list, and some higher power than MaRo shut down the idea.  The theory is that large retailers threatened them, and there may even have been talk of lawsuits.  Regardless, the higher ups (people that probably care little for game balance) put the kibosh on the talks.  MaRo and others have even refused to release any details about it, so that points to powerful pressure.

Now, if things are not on the reserve list it is clear that brand managers are not at all interested in holding back.  They have talked numerous times about how the eternal formats are dieing and point to the cost of entrance as the main reason.  So they feel it would be in their best interest to make sought after legacy staples available in new printings, but they are being very careful about it.  Too much, too fast, and it will bite them in the toches, which will trend reprints in the opposite direction.  They are sensitive to the secondary market, but they are done coddling it. 

That said, all of Indigo's other reasons are quite valid.  Like it or not wizards has stated many times that they use the lack of enemy duals as a way to push the allied.enemy theme, and too much mana fixing would make the game less challenging, interesting, and varied.