[M12] Baneslayer Angel is Out

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The biggest un-secret in M12 is confirmed. Alas, poor BSA, you are not reprinted.
With the spoiling of Benalish Veteran today as card #10, and with Auramancer previously spoiled as card #9, Baneslayer is officially gone.
Thoughts?
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was expected.
she was out of fashion with the arrivals of the titans anyway.
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Considering how much fanfare and player interest was shown in baneslayer I'm glad it's finally gone and done with.  It got more than it's fair share of time in the sun and with the new mythic enchantment coming in she doesn't really have a place anymore.

The time has come where we can look back and say remember that card.. the angel.. what's her name.. bane something?  Then get all nostalgic about when people thought that card was good.
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It was past her time anyway.

Lol we sound like eulogy writers. XD

With Angelic Destiny, no one expects BSA to be reprinted again.

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It'd be funny to go back a year ago, and tell everyone that Baneslayer Angel will be out of M12, and absolutely no one will care.  You'd be yelled off the forums for your insanity.
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It'd be funny to go back a year ago, and tell everyone that Baneslayer Angel will be out of M12, and absolutely no one will care.  You'd be yelled off the forums for your insanity.



i was thinking exactly this lol

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57183108 wrote:
56783528 wrote:
Meh, not sure whether this is entirely accurate, at least for concept decks. Sometimes an unrefined idea cannot beat the top dogs at first, but with a few suggestions and heavy playtesting, they might get there. Islands' diamond in the rough lists are a good rebuttal to your statement.
Islands' decks are more gazing into the abyss of madness and madness staring back at you. With Manamorphose.
We were told this when Baneslayer was announced in M11, imn the same place we were told Lightning Bolt was not making M12.

Very, very old news.
I will miss her as I still think she is a great card.
Another issue I have dual opinions on: 

I didn't like the fact that it so painfully obsoleted Serra Angel, thus proving the old canard of rarity=power, so that's a reason to be glad she's gone. 

But I also think that the best way to keep card prices from going nuts on the secondary market is to keep reprinting it.



Also always sad to see an angel go  
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Without it in Standard it's probably not going to cost much, with the exception of the "Extended season" periods over the next two years. I am happy to see it go mainly because I am hopeful for an eventual retreat from the "please buy our core sets" campaign which caused it to exist in the first place.

Alright, now we're talking. Serra Angel is now clear to make a Standard comeback. For. The. Win.
Oh, you're thinking about steamrolling me with your ____ Titan? That's cute. I'll just be way up here with my mega flying non-tapping Angel Army that will scrub the Ozone layer clean with your ass.  

Seriously though, I think this is an example of the disturbing trend Wizards is setting with the power curve. When Blaneslayer was first spoiled, it was so far above the power curve that nobody believed it was real. When it was printed, a friend of mine built a deck around it and we HATED playing against it because it seemed so broken. Only two years later, it is now ignored by competitive players because it just isn't good enough. "The Titans were better."

What was once the most power-curve breaking card to be printed is now being cycled out because everyone has moved on. In two years. 

With this pattern, how long will it be before we see:

Format-Defining Angel  
Creature - Uber Angel
Flying, Protection from everything, Hexproof, Lifelink, Vigilance, Double Strike, Trample
, Sacrifice Format-Defining Angel: Target Player's life total becomes 1.
P/T: 7/7

?
Alright, now we're talking. Serra Angel is now clear to make a Standard comeback. For. The. Win.
Oh, you're thinking about steamrolling me with your ____ Titan? That's cute. I'll just be way up here with my mega flying non-tapping Angel Army that will scrub the Ozone layer clean with your ass.  

Seriously though, I think this is an example of the disturbing trend Wizards is setting with the power curve. When Blaneslayer was first spoiled, it was so far above the power curve that nobody believed it was real. When it was printed, a friend of mine built a deck around it and we HATED playing against it because it seemed so broken. Only two years later, it is now ignored by competitive players because it just isn't good enough. "The Titans were better."

What was once the most power-curve breaking card to be printed is now being cycled out because everyone has moved on. In two years. 

With this pattern, how long will it be before we see:

Format-Defining Angel  
Creature - Uber Angel
Flying, Protection from everything, Hexproof, Lifelink, Vigilance, Double Strike, Trample
, Sacrifice Format-Defining Angel: Target Player's life total becomes 1.
P/T: 7/7

?



it can be countered, nobody cares about it.

but for real, i could still see even that be obsoleted in a few years after that by something even bigger.
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
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Format-Defining Angel  
Creature - Uber Angel
Flying, Protection from everything, Hexproof, Lifelink, Vigilance, Double Strike, Trample
, Sacrifice Format-Defining Angel: Target Player's life total becomes 1.
P/T: 7/7

?



it can be countered, nobody cares about it.




LOL

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58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
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97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
but for real, i could still see even that be obsoleted in a few years after that by something even bigger.

Nah.  Creatures get plenty of play now.  So there's no need for further creature power creep.
why does it have hexproof? its pro everything sdo that does nothing.
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why does it have hexproof? its pro everything sdo that does nothing.



I know that "everything" is defined as "any possible quality on a card" but does that include colorless as well?
yes. everything is every color/noncolor/artifact/permanent/spell/ability/everythingelseidontfeellikelisting
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It needs the text, cannot be sacrificed by a source your opponent controls and indestructible. Otherwise you can still kill it with Diabolic Edict, and Day of Judgment.
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even then, Final Judgment to the rescue!

Magic always has an answer ;)
proud member of the 2011 community team
Like, seriously guys? Are you wanting me to congratulate you for finding potential flaws in a card that I created off the top of my head in ten seconds? I literally just threw every positive white keyword I could think of on it. It was created to make a point. I would think that point would be a little more important here than the need to prove that my FICTIONAL card is not perfect. Just a thought. 
the point was not to show flaws in your design, but to show the greatness of magic
proud member of the 2011 community team
Let me try this again.

When Baneslayer was printed, it was incredibly far above the established power curve. Two years later, it is now close to below the power curve for most tournaments just like that. The Format-Defining Angel was made to express concern with how Wizards continually jacks up the power curve at a frightening pace. I was fearing that it won't be long for the power curve to be inflated so high that something like FDA, a card that would be stupidly overpowered in this metagame, might become tournament legal and then quickly outshone by something else.

Wizards will never print a perfect card. For every card that will ever be printed, there will be cards that can take it out, make it useless, or prevent it from ever entering the field. Now that you've established that basic idea as true, maybe we can have a real discussion. 
It isn't above the curve though.  BSA is just a dumb beater.  All it does is turn sideways.  That's it.  It gets no value when answered and often can be answered with cards that cost much less, giving a huge tempo swing.  There ws a better white flyer printed before it that was more splashable (LARK).  It's a product of the meta.  When people must use removal that answers Titans, BSA is garbage because it doesn't generate EtB or LtB value.
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Baneslayer Angel is far from garbage.  She is still the best angel ever printed in my opinion and is a solid beater that needs to be dealt with in some way.
why does it have hexproof? its pro everything sdo that does nothing.



I know that "everything" is defined as "any possible quality on a card" but does that include colorless as well?



A quality is not just color. Being an artifact, land, instant, sorcery, creature, planeswalker is still a quality, and so does having a CMC of any value.


A card can have protection from those things.


Can you think on a way of targeting it with something that have no card type, no CMC, no quality whatsoever?


Heck, if you can have protection from monocolored and multicolored, so you can simply have protection from colorless.

[<o>]
Baneslayer Angel was a test to see how powerful R&D could make a 5+ CMC creature with no anti-removal effects (protections from non-creatures, ETB/LTB effects, Indestructible, etc.) and have it still be playable.

Baneslayer proved that a creature with no other effects than beating can still be an effective creature.  I would argue it NEVER defined the format it was in, though.  It was the chosen closer for the control decks of the time, 5-CC at first, then the UW control decks that tried to fight Jund.  Arguably, even then Sphinx of Jwar Isle was frequently used alongside or in place of the Angel.

In the end, Baneslayer did exactly what it was supposed to do.  It first proved that big creatures with only one skill (winning in combat) could be effective.  It then proved, indirectly through the titans, that any creature with one skill would always be replaced by a similar creature with multiple abilities (Winning Combat & creating powerful, repeatable effects).
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Calling BSA garbage is justbat**** insane. If the titans were gone tomorrow she would be played for absolute sure.
Calling BSA garbage is justbat**** insane. If the titans were gone tomorrow she would be played for absolute sure.

I doubt it. Wurmcoil Engine, Consecrated Sphinx, Batterskull, Gideon Jura, Elspeth Tirel, Karn Liberated and other cards currently in standard all see play over Titans as finishers in plenty of decks as it is. Sun Titan might be missed, but even it's not irreplacable.

In terms of aggro & midrange, Hero of Bladehold is arguably a better curve-topper, too - it dies to all the same relevant removal spells, it's cheaper, it does more damage over a shorter period of time, it provides card advantage, etc. It's easier to block, but at that point it's already generated CA and makes two more guys that have to be dealt with anyway.

It then proved, indirectly through the titans, that any creature with one skill would always be replaced by a similar creature with multiple abilities (Winning Combat & creating powerful, repeatable effects).


I don't think this is a reasonable conclusion to jump to - the fact that the Titans all eat BSA in combat is hugely influential in BSA's sudden and dramatic drop in play. If the Titans were all 5/5 creatures for 5 mana, or 4/4 creatures for 4 mana, with the exact same abilitites, BSA might have continued to see play because she'd eat 4 out of 5 of them in combat every time.

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I strive to be critical, rational and openminded.

All you need is a caged sun, honor of the pure, adaptive automation set to angel, or marshals anthem, and that's just in standard and it can dominate all the titans, frost titan can pin it down but that's about it after the power boost
It then proved, indirectly through the titans, that any creature with one skill would always be replaced by a similar creature with multiple abilities (Winning Combat & creating powerful, repeatable effects).


I don't think this is a reasonable conclusion to jump to - the fact that the Titans all eat BSA in combat is hugely influential in BSA's sudden and dramatic drop in play. If the Titans were all 5/5 creatures for 5 mana, or 4/4 creatures for 4 mana, with the exact same abilitites, BSA might have continued to see play because she'd eat 4 out of 5 of them in combat every time.



I couldn't disagree more.  BSA produces no natural card-advantage on her own.  She is simply the most efficient creature that could ever be made available at 5-mana.  If Sun Titan was exactly the same, except it was a 5/5 for 5 or 4/4 for 4, it would see more play, not less.   A 4/4 body with a resurrection effect immediately, and more each turn it doesn't get killed?  Played on turn 4, that would be insane.  And the same could be said of each of them (Oh, Baneslayer killed my 4/4 Grave Titan, I guess I'll cry into the 8-power worth of creatures it left behind), except possibly Frost Titan, which actually totally neuters BSA anyway, so the lack of CA is moot.

The true power of the Titans is in the CiTP and on-attack abilities.  If they lacked those, they would be considered outright unplayable in constructed, and as long as they do have them, they will be powerful whatever their mana cost (as long as its under 7).
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  She is simply the most efficient creature that could ever be made available at 5-mana.


I really feel that is complete hogwash.  BA's power was/is highly dependant on the very small card pool available in Standard.  Outside of Standard it faces so many other strategies and threats that it is just not as potent as it appeared to be when it was queen in standard.
Like, seriously guys? Are you wanting me to congratulate you for finding potential flaws in a card that I created off the top of my head in ten seconds?


Yes. Seriously.

That's what we Magic players do. Find fault in everything, even WotC themselves.  

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58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
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