Tired of Tokens- Can We Get DDM back?

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Tokens just don't cut it. For those that like them, that's cool. 4th edition was built with miniatures in mind.

I'd just like to know if Wizards is even enertaining the notion of bringing back DDM.

The five chromatic dragons in October will not be enough. I'd live with one set a year like Lords of Madness.
Given that their are like a billion miniatures out their to choose from what difference does it make if Wizards makes official ones?


I personally doubt they will do this again, given that they are scaling the company back, I don't foresee them releasing anything that doesn't come with some kind of guarantee economically and if miniatures where a profitable product I don't think they would have stopped producing them in the first place so its a safe bet they are gone for good.  Even companies that can easily afford and produce miniatures like Fantasy Flight Games put out cardbord tokens for their WFRPG and It think this is kind of the direction most companies will go.  

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Tokens just don't cut it. For those that like them, that's cool. 4th edition was built with miniatures in mind. I'd just like to know if Wizards is even enertaining the notion of bringing back DDM. The five chromatic dragons in October will not be enough. I'd live with one set a year like Lords of Madness.



Replying to the bolded, but no, it was made with tactical combat on a grid in mind, not Minis.

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

@Herrozerro.

I guess I can concede that it was designed tactically for grids. Initially it was marketed for DDM to fill those grids (PHB has miniatures, not tokens). Then it switched to Tokens with Essentials (hence, the rules compendium and what-not had token pictures).

Preference is for DDM and not tokens, for most players I play with.

A few sources I've talked to, Auggies being one of many, said DDM was actually quite profitable. Just not up to Hasbro standards.
Tokens get more people into the game. New players aren't going to buy an expensive mini if they want to try the game. Plain and simple.

Now, I don't think it would be so bad if they released both.
True. Tokens are great for the Essential products and all.

Agreed. I'd like to see support for both DDM and Tokens.
A few sources I've talked to, Auggies being one of many, said DDM was actually quite profitable. Just not up to Hasbro standards.


The way Auggie's sells DDM (in singles with pricing based on rarity) is not the way WotC sells DDM, so yeah... makes perfect sense that it wouldn't be up to Hasbro's profit expectations - the most profitable sales of the minis were ones in which WotC got nearly no profit (such as someone buying an $18 box of minis from the Dragon Queen set, nabbing a Bahamut or Tiamat mini, then selling it for over $40... WotC gets a portion of the $18 as profit, and the guy that sells that single mini has more than a 50% profit margin even if that is the only mini out of the box he sells.)

Had WotC not sold randomized boxes, then Auggie's wouldn't have a market to sell singles to... and I expect the prices would either have been too high, or the Minis line would have died out sooner due to lack of profits.


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I'm a 20+ year player of D&D and I prefer tokens.  They're cheaper, easier to store, easier to transport, and I can get a lot more of them.  More tokens please!
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I can see that as the case AaronofBarbaria. There is also direct evidence that DDM was not profitable for Wizards. The sources I talked to also are a small slice of the pie.

They wouldn't have ended DDM if it wasn't profitable (even though I still think the line did fairly well).

I'm just curious if Wizards is even mulling for a way to make DDM viable again...
I'm a 20+ year player of D&D and I prefer tokens.  They're cheaper, easier to store, easier to transport, and I can get a lot more of them.  More tokens please!


Seconded. Tokens included in monster books makes using those monster books just that much easier for new DMs.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
What about a blend of tokens and miniatures: instead of simple cardboard circles, what about 2d punch-out cardboard monster pictures that would fit into the existing circular tokens?

In fact, a line of more 3d tiles might be nice too, with things like two-piece pillars and columns, altars, trees, etc.
What about a blend of tokens and miniatures: instead of simple cardboard circles, what about 2d punch-out cardboard monster pictures that would fit into the existing circular tokens?

In fact, a line of more 3d tiles might be nice too, with things like two-piece pillars and columns, altars, trees, etc.



Exactly! They need to do the little plastic base with cardboard cutouts that stand up, then the base can have little buttons or something to show different conditions...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
A few sources I've talked to, Auggies being one of many, said DDM was actually quite profitable. Just not up to Hasbro standards.


The way Auggie's sells DDM (in singles with pricing based on rarity) is not the way WotC sells DDM, so yeah... makes perfect sense that it wouldn't be up to Hasbro's profit expectations - the most profitable sales of the minis were ones in which WotC got nearly no profit (such as someone buying an $18 box of minis from the Dragon Queen set, nabbing a Bahamut or Tiamat mini, then selling it for over $40... WotC gets a portion of the $18 as profit, and the guy that sells that single mini has more than a 50% profit margin even if that is the only mini out of the box he sells.)



WOTC benefits from the secondary market just fine. Big resellers, like Auggies, also bought cases to crack open in search of chase figures. WOTC certainly got the lions share of the profit over the secondary market, who had to eat packs with fiendish t-rex or whatever.



Had WotC not sold randomized boxes, then Auggie's wouldn't have a market to sell singles to... and I expect the prices would either have been too high, or the Minis line would have died out sooner due to lack of profits.



Had WOTC not sold randomized boxes, the line would have ended. Oh wait, they did, and it did. Random is what got us huge selection, and good prices (even on the secondary market). Compare it to Reaper's little pre-paint line. What, 20 figures over 5 years or something? The same old orcs, goblins, etc that are done to death.

Their screw up was killing the skirmish game, which drove some sales, and the visible packs, which left retailers with product sitting on the shelf.

Tokens just don't cut it. For those that like them, that's cool. 4th edition was built with miniatures in mind. I'd just like to know if Wizards is even enertaining the notion of bringing back DDM. The five chromatic dragons in October will not be enough. I'd live with one set a year like Lords of Madness.




Their screw up was killing the skirmish game, which drove some sales, and the visible packs, which left retailers with product sitting on the shelf.



Yeah, I was just about to say this but you beat me to the punch.

Once the skirmish game lost support the inevitable wall for sales was going to be saturation. Meaning any individual DM was only going to buy so many miniatures before they didn't feel they needed anymore. In the end the clear packaging only hastened that process.

I'd love to use miniatures all the time but there's no way I could even afford 1% of the mini's I'd need. Tokens are cheap and with the Monster Vault, quite plentiful.

More token sets please WotC!. (without names on the bloodied side)   

I so richly believe killing the skirmish game crippled DDM. They alienated a portion of their customer base by doing that. Plus, they caused confusion with the visible line when someone bought the old randomized boosters. Those interested in the skirmish game and not a frequenter of the forums would be confused with the visibles.

Wizards claims the skirmish game was in decline. However, they said the only sure way that they had to gauge this was through tournament DCI participation. I, and a ton of others I knew, bought cases by the armful and never one dropped in to play a pre-release or tournament.

I also know the change from 1.0 to 2.0 skirmish dent help matters.
Yeah, the darkened, bloodied side on the tokens from Gloomwraught and the Nentir Monster Vault are what pushed me over the edge with tokens.

There is no good reason for doing that to tokens.
Once the skirmish game lost support the inevitable wall for sales was going to be saturation. Meaning any individual DM was only going to buy so many miniatures before they didn't feel they needed anymore. In the end the clear packaging only hastened that process.

Well stated.

Tokens just don't cut it.

I still have no trouble buying whatever miniatures I require. I'm surprised you cannot.

4th edition was built with miniatures in mind.

Agreed:
PHB p.6: "the D&D game uses dice and miniatures"
PHB p.9: "Each player needs a miniature to represent his or her character, and the DM needs minis for monsters."
PHB p.266: "The rules also assume that you use D&D Miniatures to represent the adventurers and the enemies they face."
All the tactical diagrams used miniatures
etc.




WotC determined that continuing the miniatures line was cost prohibitive.  Oil and labor - two of the most cost intensive aspects of the line - were on a rapid rise.  Further, the target audience - experienced D&D players - were reducing their purchases as they were already flush with minis from the sets of the past 5 years.  In the end, there is no way for them to continue the line and make it a financial winner.

Further, WotC has an incentive in moving us away from minis.

WotC has stated in a few places - and proven with their behavior - that the subscription model is the way they want to make their money.  Leeching money month after month is better than a few isolated purchases.  To that end, they're trying to move the game to a medium that is better suited to subscription models.  That medium is the online model - the VTT. 

In the eyes of Hasbro, D&D should be an online game with people paying subscription fees to play.  I think the plan for 4E was to transition players from table top play to virtual play.  They planned to release a VTT in 2008 that would draw players to the virtual world, and then slowly cut support for table play and increase support for the virtual world.  That plan failed, but I think they're trying it again right now. 

I believe that 5E will be a game that is best played online.  It will be a game that theoretically can be played pen and paper, but is easier to do online.  It will involve more complex math, more measuring of distances, and more details in terms of ideas like cover.  It will delve deeper into the 3rd dimension, inluding rules for attacking creatures that are up a slop, flying overhead, swimming next to you, etc...  All of this complexty will be able to be worked out at a pen and paper game table, but it will be a heck of a lot easier to have the computer do it, whether that is on an online WotC server, a video game system (Wii, PS IV, Game Cube 2, etc...) 

When you combine all of that with the competitor lines of figures, the vast amount of DDM in the secondary markets, and the infusion of all of these tokens, there is little hope of a new DDM line in the near future. 

For those that 'missed' the DDM era and want to build up a stock of figures, I suggest putting together a wish list and posting it in a few places.  Many of the people that collected in the DDM era might be willing to fill your wish list at a reasonable price.  There are lots of people out there with more goblins, orcs, dragons, and demons than they could ever use.    

D&D & Boardgames If I have everything I need to run great games for many years without repeating stuff, why do I need to buy anything right now?
I wish they would do army packs. I'd love to buy a 12 pack of Skeletons and another of Orcs, Goblins, Dragonborn, Teiflings, Ghosts, Zombies etcs.

I like tokens too, they're handy, but I really like playing with Minis. Whatever is profitable though is how it goes. I don't really have an interest in the Beholders or Dragons. I know they're key imagery for DnD but I need small armies and they seem to be stupidly priced on selling sites. I also hate Rares, Uncommons and Commons. 

I would like to buy a 12 pack composed of:
6 Soldiers with different weapons 
1 rogue 
1 Warrior
2 different mages
1 Healer 
1 Awesome Leader. 

I would buy 1 of every pack they sold, if they were like 19.99 or cheaper. 
In the eyes of Hasbro, D&D should be an online game with people paying subscription fees to play.  ... I believe that 5E will be a game that is best played online.

I gotta think WotC has already heard of things like WoW... and realizes they don't have the programmers to compete with something like that.

I personally believe that the future of D&D will eventually involve print on demand miniatures via home 3-D printers (like MakerBot, but in color). Hopefully by then we'll be using those miniatures on Surface style gaming tables.


I believe that 5E will be a game that is best played online.  It will be a game that theoretically can be played pen and paper, but is easier to do online.  It will involve more complex math, more measuring of distances, and more details in terms of ideas like cover.  It will delve deeper into the 3rd dimension, inluding rules for attacking creatures that are up a slop, flying overhead, swimming next to you, etc...  All of this complexty will be able to be worked out at a pen and paper game table, but it will be a heck of a lot easier to have the computer do it, whether that is on an online WotC server, a video game system (Wii, PS IV, Game Cube 2, etc...) 




Meh, I do almost everything on computer already, I don't want RPGs to go there too. Part of the charm of D&D is gathering around a table with friends to have fun.

I believe that 5E will be a game that is best played online.  It will be a game that theoretically can be played pen and paper, but is easier to do online.  It will involve more complex math, more measuring of distances, and more details in terms of ideas like cover.  It will delve deeper into the 3rd dimension, inluding rules for attacking creatures that are up a slop, flying overhead, swimming next to you, etc...  All of this complexty will be able to be worked out at a pen and paper game table, but it will be a heck of a lot easier to have the computer do it, whether that is on an online WotC server, a video game system (Wii, PS IV, Game Cube 2, etc...) 




Meh, I do almost everything on computer already, I don't want RPGs to go there too. Part of the charm of D&D is gathering around a table with friends to have fun.



You'll still be able to do that, by then they will have programmable dice that you send your attack and damage data to from your cell-tablet-laptop which will calculate all your bonuses and display the final number on the die after it stops rolling. It will also display a crit or auto-miss icon for 1's and 20's...

The minis will be holographic and animate for the attacks and hits...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.

I believe that 5E will be a game that is best played online.  It will be a game that theoretically can be played pen and paper, but is easier to do online.  It will involve more complex math, more measuring of distances, and more details in terms of ideas like cover.  It will delve deeper into the 3rd dimension, inluding rules for attacking creatures that are up a slop, flying overhead, swimming next to you, etc...  All of this complexty will be able to be worked out at a pen and paper game table, but it will be a heck of a lot easier to have the computer do it, whether that is on an online WotC server, a video game system (Wii, PS IV, Game Cube 2, etc...) 




Meh, I do almost everything on computer already, I don't want RPGs to go there too. Part of the charm of D&D is gathering around a table with friends to have fun.



You'll still be able to do that, by then they will have programmable dice that you send your attack and damage data to from your cell-tablet-laptop which will calculate all your bonuses and display the final number on the die after it stops rolling. It will also display a crit or auto-miss icon for 1's and 20's...

The minis will be holographic and animate for the attacks and hits...



We just need a better holographic resolution than that from the chess game in the Millenium Falcon.
-Realize You are your own source of all Creation, of your own master plan.
I don't see them resurrecting the line.  People weren't buying them because it'd gotten to the point where everything was being duplicated.  People didn't want their hundredth goblin, or tenth town guard, or 30th PC mini, or even the 20th variation of a copper dragon or drow.

If they released something useful and really specialized, like an Undead Pack, or an Aberration pack, that might do much better because you almost always need more than 1 particular type of monster.  In their previous release scheme, the monsters you might actually need could be uncommon or rare, where the monsters you already had, well, you just got more and more of them.

I would never buy another randomized pack of minis.  But if they released something I don't have a lot of as a set where I could fill a definite hole in my collection, I'd look into it.  I have literally thousands of minis.  Many, many, many of them never see use; while I have to make substitutions for other monsters I don't have enough of.
I can see that as the case AaronofBarbaria. There is also direct evidence that DDM was not profitable for Wizards. The sources I talked to also are a small slice of the pie. They wouldn't have ended DDM if it wasn't profitable (even though I still think the line did fairly well). I'm just curious if Wizards is even mulling for a way to make DDM viable again...

I have heard that successfull sets like Blood War sold more boosters then the entire second edition of DDM together. So there was a very heavy decline in sales and thus manufacturing quantity

Had WOTC not sold randomized boxes, the line would have ended. Oh wait, they did, and it did.

They didn't really. Havinf 5/60 minis being not random was not what they people asking for non-random miniatures asked for. Also they did these half-hearted step to turn around the line after it was already well into the death spiral, otherwise they wouldn't have attempted even that.

So the way Wotc finally offered some non-random minis was neither what they have been asked for nor was it killing the miniatures lines (exept you call failing to revive an already dying patient killing said patient)




I believe that 5E will be a game that is best played online.  It will be a game that theoretically can be played pen and paper, but is easier to do online.  It will involve more complex math, more measuring of distances, and more details in terms of ideas like cover.  It will delve deeper into the 3rd dimension, inluding rules for attacking creatures that are up a slop, flying overhead, swimming next to you, etc...  All of this complexty will be able to be worked out at a pen and paper game table, but it will be a heck of a lot easier to have the computer do it, whether that is on an online WotC server, a video game system (Wii, PS IV, Game Cube 2, etc...) 




Meh, I do almost everything on computer already, I don't want RPGs to go there too. Part of the charm of D&D is gathering around a table with friends to have fun.



You'll still be able to do that, by then they will have programmable dice that you send your attack and damage data to from your cell-tablet-laptop which will calculate all your bonuses and display the final number on the die after it stops rolling. It will also display a crit or auto-miss icon for 1's and 20's...

The minis will be holographic and animate for the attacks and hits...



Well, ok, as long as I get to download all the relevant programs and data on my own computer. I hate cloud solutions such as the online CB. I don't want to be dependent on corps on my continued enjoyment of the hobby.
I can see that as the case AaronofBarbaria. There is also direct evidence that DDM was not profitable for Wizards. The sources I talked to also are a small slice of the pie. They wouldn't have ended DDM if it wasn't profitable (even though I still think the line did fairly well). I'm just curious if Wizards is even mulling for a way to make DDM viable again...

I have heard that successfull sets like Blood War sold more boosters then the entire second edition of DDM together. So there was a very heavy decline in sales and thus manufacturing quantity



That would be because Blood War had excellent selection of minis, the price was lower then, and paint job better.
More tokens, please!  Tokens with every adventure ... and tactical maps to boot (some specific, more generic).  I have been playing Dungeons and Dragons for over 25 years and tokens to me are just so easy to use, store and transport.  And the artwork on them has been excellent, in my opinion.  So thank you, WotC, for finally publishing tokens.Laughing

This is all based on original sculptures, versus re-using older models, but they could continue limited releases of character classes, and monster packs, for medium sized creatures, but I wouldn't mind seeing tokens for larger creatures. The DM will buy those, and they will be easier to transport. I would like to see the artwork approve in regards to the creatures and the background to really make the pictures come to life.

I'm not a fan of tokens either.  They may be more accessible, but I've seen many new players pick out a character mini from the DM's box and spend at least a few seconds looking at it... that's a connection made that a token just can't match, and it may be the little extra kick that truly immerses that player into the game.  For some people, minis just bring a little more magic into the game.  And let's face it - plunking down a big cardboard circle is never going to have the same impact as a huge red dragon mini.

That being said, the advantages of tokens are undeniable, and I think there is room for both.  I greatly prefer minis, but I'm not really a fan of the WotC plastic ones anyway, so I'm not bothered by their decline in production.  There are plenty of other companies that provide great minis that fit my needs, but I do wish I could be directly supporting D&D with my purchases.
D&D is going pure digital with 5th. Whether or not anyone accepts this, that is up to them. The up and coming generation is 14-22, they grew up on computers. They are the future of D&D.

The virtual table will be the beginning of this process. I fully support it. D&D is already behind in technology. To survive- it needs to move forward. I still miss DDM.
I like my minis.  I don't like the tokens, i tend to glue them together to create height indicators.  I see why they are nice for new players and even for long time players that don't have extensive minis collection. 

I would like to see options to not buy the tokens.  The new monster vault is a soft back book that is only 128 pages but costs 35 dollars.  I assume the cost must be indicitive of the tokens that come with it.  Seeing as I have no use for the tokens I simply won't pay that much for a soft back book that is that thin.  If they lowered the price an offered it without the tokens I'd bounce down to the FLGS today and pick it up. 

I'm a 20+ year player of D&D and I prefer tokens.  They're cheaper, easier to store, easier to transport, and I can get a lot more of them.  More tokens please!


What difference does it make how long one has been playing? I'm a 25+ years player and I prefer miniatures.
Advice for DMs: When you are ad lib or improve DMing don't self-edit yourself. Some of the most fun you'll ever have is by just going with whatever crazy thing crosses your mind based on what your players are doing. Advice for Players: When your DM is ad libbing there are bound to be plot holes and inconsistencies that crop up. You'll all have a lot more fun if you just roll with it instead of nitpicking the details.
Previous Advice
Advice for DMs: Always dangle a lot of plot hooks in front of you players. Anything they do not bite you can bring back and bite them later. When considering a new house rule ask yourself the question "Will this make the game more fun?" Unless the answer is a resounding yes don't do it. Advice for Players: Always tell the DM not just what you want to do but also what you are hoping to accomplish. No matter how logical the result is it will never happen if it simply never occurred to the DM. "That's what my character would do" is not a valid excuse for being a disruptive ass at the table. Your right to have fun only extends to the point where it impedes the ability of others to do likewise.
I'm a 20+ year player of D&D and I prefer tokens.  They're cheaper, easier to store, easier to transport, and I can get a lot more of them.  More tokens please!

What difference does it make how long one has been playing? I'm a 25+ years player and I prefer miniatures.

I'm a 30+ year veteran player and I prefer poker chips on a hex map, when I use a map.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
I'm a 20+ year player of D&D and I prefer tokens.  They're cheaper, easier to store, easier to transport, and I can get a lot more of them.  More tokens please!


What difference does it make how long one has been playing? I'm a 25+ years player and I prefer miniatures.



It doesn't, I was basically replying to the OP when he implied that tokens are only good for Essentials (i.e. new players).
Tim Eagon My DDI Articles Follow me on Twitter @Tim_Eagon
Minis look a lot cooler on the board but tokens are a lot easier to work with.  Let's say you have a battle with tons of skeleton minions, well it's going to be easier to own, and work with tokens than minis.
I'm a 20+ year player of D&D and I prefer tokens.  They're cheaper, easier to store, easier to transport, and I can get a lot more of them.  More tokens please!


What difference does it make how long one has been playing? I'm a 25+ years player and I prefer miniatures.



It doesn't, I was basically replying to the OP when he implied that tokens are only good for Essentials (i.e. new players).



My bad. I didn't mean to imply tokens were only for beginners. They are especially helpful for new players but veterans like them as well. I like tokens but I don't just want tokens. The nentir monster vault is pretty awesome that you can run every monster in the book right away instead if waiting for the DDM line to produce it.

There are a ton of skeletons, goblins, etc...in DDM, but I want figures like Huge sized Aspect of Demongorgon, Gargantuan Green/Red Dragon, Brazen Devils, etc... There are a ton of cool monsters that DON'T HAVE MINIS.
I would buy minis again if they came out in army or adventure packs.  They don't have to be painted.

Just take one of the board games.... replace the board with dungeon tiles, take out the dice and other little chips, throw in an adventure, and then a bunch of minis - the stock gray is fine for me. 

And then keep the price to about $50 for the whole deal and I'd buy them.

If that's not going to happen then I'll stick with the tokens.  My big problem with the minis is I'd often get ones that served no purpose and I'd always end up having to use one mini as something else. 
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