Magic 2012 Ranking

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I play alot of 2HG.
I was ranked 37 with 1789 points on the magic 2012 ranking (PSN) this morning.
I create a new 2HG with a local teammate. 2 randoms join the game.
we startm 1 of the random is at hand selection. Then he quits (probably disconnecting).
The screen says we got a win.
then i check the ranking i lose 180 points! going from rank 37 to 1600s!
i have won all game today and yesterday evening (which got me at the 1789 points). so there is no hidden loss, i just dropped without playingCry
the ranking system is still not fixed accordingly (although it is better that the old one which a friend of mine is ranked high without playing 1 game)
it happened again
now even not while in game.
i created a 2HG game with local teammate, i was in lobby.
then i get a message "lost connection with host"
and i lost 270 points  Frown

for the record i have had only wins the past 2 days
I wish the game would explain how the ranking system works... is it win/lose ratio? Do you earn points for dealing damage or just for winning, what does D.C's do to your overal performance and so on... does useing the same deck repetedivly eventually deminish how many points you earn per match... so on. It would be nice to know
 
research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/tr...

This explains the TrueSkill ranking system on the Xbox. I'm not aware of anything outside of who you match against and the outcome of the match which affects the ranking. Apparently the PS3 uses a different system but again, the outcome of each match up is likely all that affects the ranking. Deck used has no bearing on it. Disconnecting is always a loss for the one who disconnected.
Even though I love playing ranked (for the competition!), I put absolutely no stock in my position on the leaderboard. If I was really trying to get to #1 I wouldn't be having fun playing. Obsessing over rank on the leaderboards directly motivates my least favorite DotP cliches: Only playing top-tier decks (like Vampires post-Exp3 DotP '09), trolling and griefing players with a teammate in 4 player FFA, switching decks to 'counter' your opponent, refusing to play a game against Blood Hunger or whatever deck you deem 'overpowered', etc. If you want to move up the leaderboards it is important not to lose (to keep pace with the players that do use these methods), and if you're afraid to risk losing you're not going to have any fun winning. This is why I disregard the official leaderboards and have taken to keeping track of my online games in an excel spreadsheet (I don't care how nerdy that sounds). I try to win every game to increase my winning percentage, but I also have forumlas to track winning percentage per deck (so I'm not shy to repeatedly lose online with Strength of Stone or Apex Predators, it's just further proof those decks are flawed which makes winning with them even more gratifying). The stat that I feel best measures my skills is actually my winning % with a deck vs. opponent's winning % with the same deck, minus mirror matches.  
Don't obsess about your leaderboard score. It's much more of an indicator of how much you play rather than how good you are. I played a guy who is top 5 on the PSN 2 player leaderboards,  and he kept a 7 card hand with no land. When he finally drew a land, he had no 1 mana play. Needless to say, I won, but if ranking was a true measure of skill, you wouldn't see that type of thing from top players.
Don't obsess about your leaderboard score. It's much more of an indicator of how much you play rather than how good you are. I played a guy who is top 5 on the PSN 2 player leaderboards,  and he kept a 7 card hand with no land. When he finally drew a land, he had no 1 mana play. Needless to say, I won, but if ranking was a true measure of skill, you wouldn't see that type of thing from top players.




lol u really think someone is that dumb especially coming from a top 5 player? obviously something weird happen to him. Press keep hand wrongly or younger bro/sis using his acccount or something? Dont get too obsess with that win.
Don't obsess about your leaderboard score. It's much more of an indicator of how much you play rather than how good you are. I played a guy who is top 5 on the PSN 2 player leaderboards,  and he kept a 7 card hand with no land. When he finally drew a land, he had no 1 mana play. Needless to say, I won, but if ranking was a true measure of skill, you wouldn't see that type of thing from top players.




lol u really think someone is that dumb especially coming from a top 5 player? obviously something weird happen to him. Press keep hand wrongly or younger bro/sis using his acccount or something? Dont get too obsess with that win.



I wrote that to make a simple point that rank doesn't mean what people assume it means in this game. I'm not "obsessed" with anything. If you play 1v1 frequently enough you'll see many bad decisions from players, even ones who are at the top of the leaderboards. You'll make a few yourself. I know I have. To provide another example, if one is needed, that we can't just assume a top-ranked player is good, here's who is, or was at the time, the top-ranked SSF4 player on XBL. www.youtube.com/watch?v=48EEpY29_7o&feat.... People do all types of things to get to the top, because they believe (rightly) that perception rather than reality is what matters to most. But what's really important if one wants to get better IMO is what you can learn from the game, in victory or defeat, in order to tighten up your play and make fewer mistakes, which is what I try to do.
I was top 10 in DOTP 09 on XBLA, and it really doesnt mean anything. I knew quite a few people below me who were definately better.
I was top 10 in DOTP 09 on XBLA, and it really doesnt mean anything. I knew quite a few people below me who were definately better.

I would say whoever is in the top 20 in '09 and doesn't rely on MoS is probably the better players.
Hey Guys,

I am currently ranked 62 for Magic 2012 for PS3 for 2 player. I have no idea how the rankings work although I would really like to know! It seems very difficult for your leaderboard score to go down, I have seen mine go down a few times although it is very rare. Usually it either stays the same or goes up slightly. I do believe the rank of your opponent effects how much points you get for a win (if any points). I have won 10 matches in a row at times and not seen my points go up at all. A few days ago I lost about 7 matches in a row (first time I've ever lost that many in a row) and against a player who was using about 80 cards in his deck (used Blood Hunger every time)!! My ranking did not change at all after that losing streak!!

If anyone knows anything I would really like to know! I am especially very curious about the following 3 things:

1) Does leaving a match early affect anything?

2) Is there a point in playing people with low rankings if you are trying to improve your own rankings? Do you get points at all for beating people with low rankings?

3) Are the leaderboard scores always updated right away or is there a delay after a match?

does anything or if there is even a point in playing people with low rankings if you are trying to improve your own rankings. If you don't know though please don't make guesses, let's concentrate on the facts.

From my own observations I would agree with Pterosaur that it is defintley mainly a reflection of how much you play and not neccessarily how good you are, but I'm sure the guys near the top are very good! For me personally it motivates me to play as I love a challenge and I am trying to make it to the top







Ranking. I was 26 and didn't play for about a month, then played when CB came out and lost like 10 times, and last time I checked I was 500 something. I'm sure I could rank back up with SoS or one of the stronger decks but it's just kind of meaningless.


It's getting tough to get matches as everyone is in ranked with the stronger decks. I play anyway. I'll prolly stop playing CB unless a few more cards are released though unless I can catch up to Eon for some player matches.

Hey Guys,

I am currently ranked 62 for Magic 2012 for PS3 for 2 player. I have no idea how the rankings work although I would really like to know! It seems very difficult for your leaderboard score to go down, I have seen mine go down a few times although it is very rare. Usually it either stays the same or goes up slightly. I do believe the rank of your opponent effects how much points you get for a win (if any points). I have won 10 matches in a row at times and not seen my points go up at all. A few days ago I lost about 7 matches in a row (first time I've ever lost that many in a row) and against a player who was using about 80 cards in his deck (used Blood Hunger every time)!! My ranking did not change at all after that losing streak!!

If anyone knows anything I would really like to know! I am especially very curious about the following 3 things:

1) Does leaving a match early affect anything?

2) Is there a point in playing people with low rankings if you are trying to improve your own rankings? Do you get points at all for beating people with low rankings?

3) Are the leaderboard scores always updated right away or is there a delay after a match?

does anything or if there is even a point in playing people with low rankings if you are trying to improve your own rankings. If you don't know though please don't make guesses, let's concentrate on the facts.

From my own observations I would agree with Pterosaur that it is defintley mainly a reflection of how much you play and not neccessarily how good you are, but I'm sure the guys near the top are very good! For me personally it motivates me to play as I love a challenge and I am trying to make it to the top








On Steam,

It updates as soon as the match is over.

I believe you get more points for beating some of a much higher rank. I usually look for the highest rank person when selecting a match to jump into.
I play alot of 2HG.
I was ranked 37 with 1789 points on the magic 2012 ranking (PSN) this morning.
I create a new 2HG with a local teammate. 2 randoms join the game.
we startm 1 of the random is at hand selection. Then he quits (probably disconnecting).
The screen says we got a win.
then i check the ranking i lose 180 points! going from rank 37 to 1600s!
i have won all game today and yesterday evening (which got me at the 1789 points). so there is no hidden loss, i just dropped without playing
the ranking system is still not fixed accordingly (although it is better that the old one which a friend of mine is ranked high without playing 1 game)

I'd say to ignore the boards completely.  A few weeks back I was in the 1200 range on the 1V1 board on XBox Live.  After playing for a week using just Blood Hunger I dropped to 823.  I only lost 2 or 3 games over the entire week.  I'm honestly very sure that most of the people in the top 500 or so are probably spamming BH and RoI.  MtW now as well, though I don't think it's as reliable as the other 2.

Anyway, once I went back to maining CB my ranking dropped, it was a fun little experiment.
Your ranking on PS3 takes quite some time to update (sometimes hours).

Conceding doesn't effect your points (you don't lose / win points if anyone concedes).

Disconnecting doesn't effect your points.

The top ranked players aren't spamming ROI / BH, they just concede whenever they are about to lose.
the part with conceeding can't be true sui99, I don't have any proof but this just can't be right - did you test this specifically? 

the only thing I'm not so sure of is if you play a guy that has  AI overtake on, if he leaves early and you don't finish off the AI then maybe it's not counted as a win
all I can say is that on ps3 you only get 1 meager point for a win so I also support the theory that playing a lot means earning the most points...
a clarification of how the ps3 system works would be quite helpful indeed
After so many ups and downs on the leaderboard, I stopped looking at it. I had lost a couple of games, but my drop on the list was huge... Too huge for a 3:1 win ratio.
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the part with conceeding can't be true sui99, I don't have any proof but this just can't be right - did you test this specifically? 

the only thing I'm no to sure of is if you play a guy that has  AI overtake on, if he leaves early and you don't finish off the AI then maybe it's not counted as a win
all I can say is that on ps3 you only get 1 meager point for a win so I also support the theory that playing a lot means earning the most points...
a clarification of how the the ps3 system works would be quite helpful indeed

Hey sui99 and Boregard,

sui99, how did you determine that if a player concedes no one gains or loses points? I'm not saying your wrong but if that is true it's just stupid, y reward people for not finishing a game honorably? I defintley see many players conceding games just before losses, I always finish my games unless the guy is really rubbing it in at the end when the game is already over

Boregard, that's a good point about the AI overtake, maybe I should start leaving that on to ensure I get the points for a win (if it does anything. Also Boregard, I play many games all the time where I don't seem to get any points at all, let alone 1 point. I've won like 8 times in a row many times with no score increase even days later. I'm not sure if because I'm in top 100 playing people with low ranking barely effects my score but yeah I'm with you I just love to understand things and I wish I knew how they this ranking system was rated! Maybe it is for the best though if it was common knowledge how the ranking system worked people would probably find a way to cheap it out. I'm 99% sure though like YouCanCallMeFather said if you play people with high rank it give you the most points.

sui99, do you know if you keep the AI overtake on and win does that change anything?


hey gadoutsi

stats are hard to check on ps3 because it updates so slowly/randomly, so it's nearly impossible to relate wins with point gains:
I remember playing vs. ghostmaker13 last weekend, he is currently ranked 2nd on ps3, and I beat him this time (he plays 70+ card decks and still seems to draw all the best stuff at the right time Yell but he's definitely a good player no doubt about that)
I immediately checked, but my score increased only by 1 point, but as already mentioned this could have also been the previous match I managed to win

all very confusing and random imo Smile
When Auramancer was released I ragequitted A LOT (that deck was infuriating...). The next day I dreaded to check my ranking but to my surprise I had not lost a single point. That was the moment when I got the suspicion that conceding doesn't effect the rankings. I tested this by conceding 20 games. I checked my rank a few days later and nothing happened. So, I'm pretty sure that conceding doesn't effect your points.

What strengthens my belief is that the game kicks you into the menu after conceding and for a short period of time you can read "Connection lost". So I guess conceding leads to a disconnect which doesn't count as loss (disconnecting also didn't count as loss in DOTP 09 iirc).

The current ranking is pretty meaningless...

Ps. And it's obviously a bug because the game explicitly tells you that conceding counts as a loss.

Oh well, good to know that stainless cares about its product and will definitely fix this. /irony off
Thx Boregard and sui99 for the xtra info. Sounds like you are prob right sui99 about the conceding thing although I'm still not 100% convinced, as I said I rarely quit until the game is over and that one time I lost about 8 matches in a row without quitting and it didn't seem to affect my rating, although like Boregard was saying the updates are so slow/random it's hard to tell for certain what is happening.

Boregard, I can't believe ghostmaker13 was using a +70 deck that makes no sense, if that is true I'm really starting to agree with sui99 here the rankings are basically meaningless. As I was saying in a previous post the only time I lost a bunch of times in a row (about 7 or 8 I think) was to a guy using a +70 deck, he always used Blood Hunger, and yet he seemed to always draw the best cards in the deck everytime! Probably just got lucky but I hope no one has found a way to cheat the game where you can influence which cards you draw. Maybe they are challenging themselves by putting more cards in their deck

sui99 again any idea if the AI takeover does anything to affect an opponnet conceding? I know with the AI takeover on you do go back to the session screen after the match is over so that sounds promising, but also when you win after an AI takeover it's says you defeated "Sorin Markov" or whatever instead of the players name.

Anyways after talking with you guys I have been playing all my games by creating the session myself and turning AI takeover on. I am having pretty good results I seem to be moving up in the rankings faster then before I'm at 52 now. Hearing about all this BS with the rankings though is very discouraging I'm going to send an email to whoever the right person is to report this potential conceding bug. If anyone knows the right person to send to let me know.

BTW, if you guys wanna ever play or add me as a friend my PS3 screen name is the same as my boardname, gadoutsi
oh btw Boregard I forgot to ask, did ghostmaker13 concede the game before you beat him Want to see if the theory about the top ranked players quitting all their games before they lose is true.
I experimented with AI takeover right when I started to play online. At that point people were disconnecting a lot when they were about to lose. So I thought AI takeover might help but it didn't seem to work. However, I haven't done serious testing in this regard.

Only thing I know, it would be a bad workaround anyways because no one joins games with AI takeover...
oh btw Boregard I forgot to ask, did ghostmaker13 concede the game before you beat him Want to see if the theory about the top ranked players quitting all their games before they lose is true.



yes he conceeded just before the match ended...
and I'm completely sure he always played with 70+ card decks(I played him a couple of times, mainly he plays with WS or ROI 70+ all the time), because I had the same experience like you gadoutsi, some guys playing 80 carddecks and still draw the finest stuff... I mean they are good players, u can see that by their timing but still sometimes it's hard to believe that they are that lucky with their big decks...
 
Hey Sui I don't think the other player can see if you are hosting an AI takeover match or not I haven't had any trouble getting matches anyways. I'm at rank 29 now making good progress using AI takeover can't tell if it's making a difference though.

I hope no one has found a way to cheat by gettting the best cards every hand. I don't understand y the # 1 ranked player would use a plus 70 deck unless to challenge himself.

If anyone is cheating or quitting to improve their ranking it's pretty sad.
btw I can confirm what sui99 said, conceding does NOT lower your rank, so if you want to progress in the (quite meaningless) ranks just concede before losing

it still counts as a win for your opponent though so no need to feel lame about it Wink  
btw I can confirm what sui99 said, conceding does NOT lower your rank, so if you want to progress in the (quite meaningless) ranks just concede before losing

it still counts as a win for your opponent though so no need to feel lame about it Wink  

That is lame.

By not lowering rank when conceding you don't allow players below you to rank up as they should. 

It maybe a win for your opponent but people above him are conceding and not lowering rank thus its still lame.

I hope they fix this bug someday...... 
well call it what you like, but apart from the ranking system being completely meaningless and stupid there is no option to play unranked matches on ps3, every online match is automatically ranked...
so the ps3 implementation seems to be the worst if you ask me...
When you talk about rage quiting not effected your stats you mean dashboarding right?
conceding a duel reduces rank, if it's a match with points at stake.  On PSN, if you are enough ranks above the other people in the match it's what a refer to as a 'point-less' match.  That is you can not gain or lose points by winning or losing the match.  So if your'e top 100, playing against players outside the top 300 or so will gain (or lose) you no points. 

Also, just for the record, 'rage quitting' and disconnecting from the PSN to save points is just childish.  Anyone who wants to sit atop the leaderboard should earn it.  I got there the hard way.  The only time I've dropped from a match is if I genuinely got disconnected or if there were people blatently working together in free for all from turn 1 (and no, I don't mean against AD..I expect to get gang-banged if I'm using AD).  I've seen people utilize a number of methods to cheat the system, and I don't hesitate to tell them exactly what I think.  If you want to be the best, beat the best...legitamitely.

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just for the record, by conceding I meant opening up the menue and clicking "concede duel"

  
 
I know, Boregard, I wasn't referring to you with that comment.  Sorry if it came across that way.  There are people who do that, though, in an attempt to cheat the system.  My apologies if you took offense to my comment. 

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I just wish there was a way to concede without kicking you out of the room, I want to bow out of a game and then rematch. It's kind of a waste of time when a game is lost no matter what.

I do have a question though to you MalikTarrant, are you manually copypasting that "I'm Green/Black" thing with all the text for each of your posts? I say that since I have sigs turned off, and I'm just curious.
That's why I only play Player matches, so you can rematch after. It baffles me why people quit out of player matches.
@ MalikTarrant

Just popping in for a brief moment to let you know that if you would like that Green/Black banner to be a part of every post you make, there is no need to have to constantly copy and paste it into your post box; you can simply make it your signature and it will automatically appear underneath every post you make. (Like with the xweetok image and link to the Pony Co. underneath this post.) To set it up as a signature, click on the word Preferences at the top left corner of this page just above the thread. On the page that follows, there is a box that lets you put in what you want for your signature. Put the banner and anything else you want to go with it into that box, click the Update Prefereces button at the bottom of that page, and viola, you now have a signature! That should make things a bit easier for you.

Sorry for the interruption guys. Carry on.

Xweetoks = ♥Happiness







@ MalikTarrant

Thx for the info Mike if that's true it's extremly helpful. I am ranked 27 on PSN and I have noticed sometimes I play a lot of games and my ranking doesn't go up and down at all.

So to confirm, r u saying if you are in the top 300 unless you play another player in the top 300 you cannot gain or lose points?

And also to confirm, u r saying if you concede a duel your ranking will still go down if it's a match where points are at stake?

Finally, where did you get this information?

Really apprciate the info trying to figure out this ranking system is killing me

Send me your PSN screenname if you want I can add you and we can have some matches where points r at stake Mine's "gadoutsi"
@ MailikTarrant

Sorry, correction to my last post for one of the questions. I meant to say:

So to confirm, r u saying if you are in the top 100 unless you play a player in the top 300 you cannot gain or lose points?
gadoutsi:
question 1: correct.  I'm not sure exactly what the difference has to be in rank, but I'm currently ranked 4 and anyone outside the top 300 nets me 0 win or lose.  Probably at rank 100 anyone outside the top 400 is the same.
question 2: also correct. 
question 3: mostly just from watching the leaderboards.  a lot of my friends and I wondered for quite a while how the rank system worked, so I spent some time studying it after matches and came up with this.  For example, when I played some games with 3 other top 10ers one night I noticed that when I won or lost I gained or lost the exact same number of points, regardless if I was first out or last our when I lost.  overkill also made no change in points won or lost.  The only thing that changed it is if I killed someone worth points (in this case anyone) before dying. 

My PSN screen name is the same as here: MalikTarrant

My friend's list is full, but send me a message and I'll clear a spot. 
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Thanks for the tip Gemstone.  I looked all over Profile trying to find an option to do that, never even noticed the Preferences button there lol.  Appreciate the info.
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@ MalikTarrant,

Thanks bud I hope you are right about the conceding thing seems like so many people quit before matches are over, I think a lot of them do it because they think they are preserving their ranking. A lot of people on this board think that if you concede your rank doesn't go down. They have said you your opponent will still gain the points for a victory but if you quit your own rank will not go down. Just to make sure (because I've never confirmed this myself) can you confirm you've seen yours or someone else's rank go DOWN after they conceded a match?

I found you on the leaderboard finally I was looking at the 2 player board (That's what I play almost exclusively) I see you there on the 4 player board now. Maybe I'll start trying out the 4 player, I hate 3 player though. 3 player the guy who wins almost always is the guy who doesn't attack

Also, was all this info about the rankings you gathered looking at the leaderboard done in 4 player games with the 4 player leaderboard?

Thanks again for the info!
I've seen my own ranking go down after conceding in matches where there've been freezing issues (only time I concede). 
And yes, the info I've gathered is based on the 4 player leaderboards, but I've noticed similar trends in 2 and 3 player games as well.  Granted, I play them less, but I'm fairly certain the ranking system is universal. 

Yeah, if you look for me on the 2 player board you'll be scrolling a while lol.  I topped out around 80 before I started playing mostly 4 player, and have since fallen to something like 550.  Currently 15 on 3 player and 4 on 4 player, although frankly the legitamicy of all 3 people ahead of me on 4 player is questionable to say the least. 

Always glad to help out!
Happy Gaming!
Life and death, growth and decay, one cannot exist without the other. You are a protector of the natural cycle. You join the Golgari Swarms.
Life and death, growth and decay, one cannot exist without the other. You are a protector of the natural cycle. You join the Golgari Swarms.
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