After a few brainstorming sessions I realized that all three of these decks struggled to beat land destruction spells. The decks seemed like they would flounder when facing a deck that had a dedicated suite of land destruction spells.A few quick Gatherer searches revealed that the format doesn't have a ton of dedicated land destruction
Yay for post Jace/stoneforge standard :D Gives space for a lot more creative archetypes and yay for pyromancer ascension too ha, its gonna be sad leaving that deck once standard rotates, I've had that deck for a while Also, I agree with chuckles, tezzerets gambit is actually really awesome in activating the ascension, I'd say the only problem I've had with tezzerets gambit is having a tezzys gambit in hand with no pyro ascension out and you need card draw, cause then it's like you want to save the gambit for once you get your ascension out to then actually activate it but then you also need card draw. Hard decisions lol, Na but yeah, this should be pretty awesome, I'm sure well see at least a couple new decks out there in the metagame pretty soon And imo, I think running kiln fiends is never a bad idea, I know in your lists you like to keep a creature-less deck, but I still feel kiln fiend was made for a deck like this, if anything it can be an alternate win condition even though it may appear a little clanky or even slow at times, but I mean, the synergy is there lol, he's even a good sideboard card as well -i think i may like deprive over spell pierce, but im not entirely sure yetanways, -good stuff
88318561 wrote:76783093 wrote:there is nothing "epic" about a turn one victory. ever.
or really any magic game, for that matter.
So this one time, I wanted to play a game of Magic with my friend, but he was in another country and neither of us had Magic Online. I hitchhiked my way to the coast, barely fending off hungry wildlife when I couldn't get a ride, nearly dying of thirst crossing deserts, and posoning myself half to death foraging for food. At one point, I was taken hostage by a group of kidnappers, only managing to escape after a week of careful planning thanks to careful application of a rusty spoon.
Once I reached the coast, I had no money to buy a ticket across the ocean, so I built a boat using my own two hands, and spent months sailing across the waves, nearly losing my deck as I swam to the shore of a desert island in a storm after being capsized by an enormous wave. Nearly delusional after so long with no human contact (the notches I cut in the single tree to tell time had long since felled the thing) I was eventually rescued by a passing ship, where I was taken aboard as a crew member.
We sailed around the world, seeing many exotic places and having great adventures, before we finally arrived at my friend's country. Once more I stumbled across a desolate landscape, riding on train or car when I could, and going on foot when I could not. Eventually, weary to the bone, seven years after I started my journey, I arrived at my friend's house, clutching my well-worn and weathered deck to my chest. We shuffled up our decks, I won the roll. Gleefully, I laid down my cards.
Black Lotus. My friend looked quizzically at me, wondering what I was about to do. After so long, he no longer knew what deck I had brought with me to this game.
Flash. A knowing smile appears on my friend's face as the knowledge slowly returns to him.
My friend extends his hand, knowing the game is over before it even started. And finally, after so many trials, the sweet taste of victory is mine.
76783093 wrote:there is nothing "epic" about a turn one victory. ever.
or really any magic game, for that matter.
56866178 wrote:108166749 wrote:So no one else is upset with the stunt Wizards just pulled to drive sales?
Drive sales of what? Non-Jace, non-Mystic cards? I'm pretty sure people already own more than eight Magic cards. If you don't, I feel for you. Maybe you can trade those Stoneforge Mystics, which are still quite valuable, for some.
108166749 wrote:So no one else is upset with the stunt Wizards just pulled to drive sales?
The gist of this article was basically "Attack the new Standard by disrupting its manabase."After a few brainstorming sessions I realized that all three of these decks struggled to beat land destruction spells. The decks seemed like they would flounder when facing a deck that had a dedicated suite of land destruction spells.A few quick Gatherer searches revealed that the format doesn't have a ton of dedicated land destructionSadly, they've basically taken mana disruption out of the game. Remember the old 5-color Lorwyn decks? Their manabases were Reflecting Pool, Vivid Places, filter land, go. But with one well placed Stone Rain all of their lands would turn into Command Tower (T: do nothing) or Urza's Mine. But that possibility was denied to rogue deckbuilders. (Drain the Well was too slow.)Then there was Jund. I'm just going to play all these lands that come into tapped, okay? I'm totally going to untap with them every single time? The Jund deck made playing UB on "turn two" (3) and BRG on "turn 3" (4) too consistent. Well, until people figured out to play Spreading Seas. Deck builders need to be punished for being too greedy. It's not just those two old decks. New decks might play too few lands (20) or contain a weak splash only supported by a fetchland. (WuB Caw? Others?) Think of it this way. For any "normal deck" (not Dredge, etc) you can cheat on your manabase to make it less reliable, but make your deck stronger. The occasional LD spell teaches players not to "cheat", or punishes narrow builds. Four LD spells in the same game can always be cripping, but R&D has learned how to engineer formats where Draw Go is impossible to build. They can do the same for LD.Real example: my favorite deck is Legacy Zoo. I'm very greedy - I fetch duals every turn and I need three different colors of mana. Common knowledge says that Wasteland is the nuts against Zoo. They'd be right, if I were playing the gassy 19 land version. But try it with 21 lands, half fetches. Actually, I originally had the two extra lands in the sideboard (for Wasteland), but I kept boarding them in so that's where they stayed. Now when someone Wastes one of my lands I shrug and continue running them over. The 1-for-1 doesn't change my tempo. Sure, I'm slightly weaker against decks without LD. But in Legacy Wasteland is super common.I'm not saying that adding lands to any deck makes it better against LD, therefore LD is safe. That's dumb, and my Legacy Zoo deck isn't a generalization. I'm saying that LD should be thought of as a form legit form of 'hate', like Pithing Needle or Boil. But instead of hating an archetype, you're hating on greediness. LD has been made into a dirty word recently, but it does a world of good.
The last really good creature card that supported land destruction was Army Ants.
I tried out the LD deck on MODO for a bit, and really struggled to make it work consistently (not surprisingly I suppose). When you're cheapest LD spell is a Winter's Grasp that tosses your opponent a 3/3 for free, you know you've gone astray already. Also, I feel as though there are one or two more lands than really necessary, and that having two 2-drop accelerators is a bad idea. I tried the following list with marginally more success (changes are highlighted):Lands (25)5 Forest4 Mountain4 Kazandu Refuge4 Copperline Ridge4 Raging Ravine4 Tectonic EdgeCreatures (22)4 Birds of Paradise4 Acidic Slime4 Invader Parasite3 Moltensteel Dragon4 Overgrown Battlement3 Pelakka WurmSpells (13)4 Beast Within1 Explore4 Lightning Bolt4 SlagstormAny suggestions (of the unsardonic variety) from anyone to make this one better? I feel like Wurmcoil Engine or Inferno Titan instead of Pelakka Wurm would make this deck a bit more dangerous. Gaea's Avenger perhaps? Maybe a better acceleration path is Joraga Treespeaker + Battlement? Maybe with M12's Tectonic Rift this deck gets very slightly better.The Moltensteel Dragons and the Raging Ravines are definitely the stars of this deck. After Slagstorm they pretty much clean up.